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Poll On The Up/Down Voting System .. Cast Your Votes


bludog
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Consensus of opinion on the up/down voting system.  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. Consensus of opinion on the up/down voting system.

    • Keep the system as it is now
    • Keep the upvote feature but get rid of downvotes
    • Scrap the entire system

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  • bludog changed the title to Poll On The Up/Down Voting System .. Cast Your Votes

My preference is that we talk these issues out and attempt to reach consensus vs having hasty voting without an attempt to talk it out.

 

This is an issue I have zero passion about. None. Scrapping it or reforming it to a "positive only" scheme are both fine by me.

 

But what I don't think this "council" should do is to set a precident for votes being taken to decide board matters without a consensus. That's a pathway to serious problems in the future IMO.

 

Bill

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I voted to keep upvotes, get rid of downvotes. Upvotes are available on most social media platforms for a reason. 
 

Can numeric reputations be unlinked from votes or eliminated altogether? Now that’s a pointless feature.

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9 hours ago, SpyCar said:

My preference is that we talk these issues out and attempt to reach consensus vs having hasty voting without an attempt to talk it out.

 

This is an issue I have zero passion about. None. Scrapping it or reforming it to a "positive only" scheme are both fine by me.

 

But what I don't think this "council" should do is to set a precident for votes being taken to decide board matters without a consensus. That's a pathway to serious problems in the future IMO.

 

Bill


Interesting point Bill.

 

Consensus is always better than votes If it can be achieved. A low impact issue like this is certainly something that can be achieved through consensus. 
 

There are more difficult issues like racism. How do we maintain freedom of expression while limiting the damage done to the forum by racist filth? 

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14 minutes ago, Olivaw said:


Interesting point Bill.

 

Consensus is always better than votes If it can be achieved. A low impact issue like this is certainly something that can be achieved through consensus. 
 

There are more difficult issues like racism. How do we maintain freedom of expression while limiting the damage done to the forum by racist filth? 

 

I think we should attempt to reach consensus on every issue here on the Liberal Council. As you suggest, this was a "low impact issue" (to be sure), yet it appears that through discussion we've come up with a solution that everyone finds acceptable, vs the premature call for a "majority vote." 

 

I don't think we should solve our issues through "majoritarianism."  Rather we should seek consensus before we act. It is an important principle to strive for IMO.

 

The same with tackling more vexing issues like blatant racism on this forum. Such language disgusts us all (I'm sure that's fair to say). Against that we have the unusually unmoderated free speech that prevails here, which makes this forum--for better and for worse--a fairly unusual corner of the internet.

 

For myself (only), I feel torn between impulses. So I'm all ears when it comes to a discussion about issues such as how to "maintain freedom of expression while limiting the damage done to the forum by racist filth." It is a very ripe topic for discussion, it is also a perfect example IMO of where a precipitious "majoritarian" vote that's taken without the achievement of a consensus would (in my estimation) be misguided at best.

 

You know what I mean? 

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

You know what I mean? 


I do.


I too am torn. There is a thread in NHB titled “Jigaboo bugaloo is over I think”. On most sites, that would be considered offensive and incendiary hate speech. On this site, it was said by the owner.  Had I seen that or the “IQ” thread on my first visit, I likely would have left LF and never returned. As a 2+ year member I’ve grown to expect it. 

We lost laripu over racism and bigotry. Who else? 

 

My suggestion would be to see how @Toldya’s thread unfolds and take it from there. I hope a lot of club members weigh in and we can come to some sort of consensus. Failing that, I’d be willing to accept the outcome of a vote. 

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9 minutes ago, Olivaw said:


I do.


I too am torn. There is a thread in NHB titled “Jigaboo bugaloo is over I think”. On most sites, that would be considered offensive and incendiary hate speech. On this site, it was said by the owner.  Had I seen that or the “IQ” thread on my first visit, I likely would have left LF and never returned. As a 2+ year member I’ve grown to expect it. 

We lost laripu over racism and bigotry. Who else? 

 

My suggestion would be to see how @Toldya’s thread unfolds and take it from there. I hope a lot of club members weigh in and we can come to some sort of consensus. Failing that, I’d be willing to accept the outcome of a vote. 

 

I'm quite sure that many potential liberal members have come here, seen the blatant bigotry, and turned tail. No doubt.

 

I feel especially bad about losing laripu due to WillFranklin's anti-Semitism and would strongly oppose lifting Franklin's ban. I liked laripu a great deal, which I'm sure is a universal feeling. I also feel some responsibility in losing him, as--in an expression of solidarity against anti-Semitism--I clued him into what Franklin had said in some his more outlandish "final solution" type posts. My plan to support laripu backfired, unfortunately, as he left the forum.

 

I have asked bludog (who keeps in touch) to invite laripu back now that Franlkin is gone, but this looks perminent. Alas.

 

What are you thinking?

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

What are you thinking?


All I have come up with so far is:

 

1) Create a polite discussion room with a standard set of rules against threats, hate speech, personal attacks etc. Make it the premier front page and the room that guests/visitors see. 


2) Keep NHB as-is but move it down the list. Hide it from guests.

 

I’m open to any ideas that you have. 
 

Also look forward to seeing good participation in Toldya’s thread. 

 

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4 hours ago, Olivaw said:


All I have come up with so far is:

 

1) Create a polite discussion room with a standard set of rules against threats, hate speech, personal attacks etc. Make it the premier front page and the room that guests/visitors see. 


2) Keep NHB as-is but move it down the list. Hide it from guests.

 

I’m open to any ideas that you have. 
 

Also look forward to seeing good participation in Toldya’s thread. 

 

The discussion room already exists. 

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26 minutes ago, lucifershammer said:

There won't be another. And I have several libs who post there.

@kfools @Ghostofkf,  why is this individual a moderator and why does he think he can overrule the liberal administrators and council?  If the liberal council and leadership team is a farce then come clean and don’t string us along with BS about libs running the forum. I want nothing to do with providing cover for Bugaloo Bois hate. 
 

@bludog, @RollingRock, @zkyllonen8, @impartialobserver, @SpyCar

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4 minutes ago, Olivaw said:

@kfools @Ghostofkf,  why is this individual a moderator and why does he think he can overrule the liberal administrators and council?  If the liberal council and leadership team is a farce then come clean and don’t string us along with BS about libs running the forum. I want nothing to do with providing cover for Bugaloo Bois hate. 
 

@bludog, @RollingRock, @zkyllonen8, @impartialobserver, @SpyCar

I'm not overruling anything.  But I have a clean room with almost 3000 posts and growing every day. Which is the point I tried to make. I'm sorry you don't like it and that's your choice. And in case you didn't notice I'm on the council as well. 

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3 minutes ago, lucifershammer said:

I'm not overruling anything.  But I have a clean room with almost 3000 posts and growing every day. Which is the point I tried to make. I'm sorry you don't like it and that's your choice. And in case you didn't notice I'm on the council as well. 

 

And unless I'm misremembering, just a few days ago you stated emphatically that you are not a liberal. Correct?

 

Bill

 

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Just now, SpyCar said:

 

And unless I'm misremembering, just a few days ago you stated emphatically that you are not a liberal. Correct?

 

Bill

 

No I didn't.  I said I claim NO political affiliation  and I refuse to allow a label to be pinned on me.  

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10 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

And unless I'm misremembering, just a few days ago you stated emphatically that you are not a liberal. Correct?

 

Bill

 

lucifershammer     420

lucifershammer
  On 5/29/2020 at 2:55 PM, Skans said:

You are labeled by whomever you voted for.  Did you vote for Trump?  Clinton?  Sanders?  Obama?  Romney?  Bush II? 

 Labeled by who?  I've never towed a party line of any sort my whole life.  Labels are for insecure people who lack the ability to think for themselves and need to be guided through life

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11 minutes ago, lucifershammer said:

I'm not overruling anything.  But I have a clean room with almost 3000 posts and growing every day. Which is the point I tried to make. I'm sorry you don't like it and that's your choice. And in case you didn't notice I'm on the council as well. 


You said in another thread that the liberal team is to be allowed no say in your room. 
In this thread you dictated that liberals are not allowed to create a different discussion room with rules set by the liberal team. 
Practically speaking, you have rendered our efforts here meaningless.

 

Is @Ghostofkf playing us for fools? 

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3 minutes ago, Olivaw said:


You said in another thread that the liberal team is to be allowed no say in your room. 
In this thread you dictated that liberals are not allowed to create a different discussion room with rules set by the liberal team. 
Practically speaking, you have rendered our efforts here meaningless.

 

Is @Ghostofkf playing us for fools? 

The CDR has been in play since day one of this. Creating another room is counter productive and useless. And to be clear I have agreed to mod the clean debate room and leave the liberal  mods to run their areas as they see fit. I'm sorry you don't like this but another CBR seems useless and redundant.  The CBR is open to all members who follow the rules and I've made that abundantly clear.

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9 minutes ago, kfools said:

Stop. 

 

As usual there is a reaction without facts.

 

When I turned the forum over to the council there were two exceptions. 1 to 2ac to run ONLY the members debates and 1 to lucifershammer for ONLY the clean debate room.

 

Lucifershammer and 1AC built those rooms.

 

Now 1AC got mad and quit as it was turned over to libs. Lucifershammer accepted and bludog allowed it as he has no political affiliation. 

 

Now that's out of the way I'm curious anyhow what the issue is that the council has the LH isn't able to reconcile with you all?

I didn't know there was a problem until now. I can work along side anyone and I believe @bludog is doing a phenomenal job as is the rest of the team.

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Just now, kfools said:

Your bearing and opinions on that are not relevant.

 

You have a room. It's all yours to run as you see fit.

 

This is to be the "Liberals forum"

 

A clean debate/discussion room with you modding it doesn't interfere with that. However, if they want to add rooms EVEN IF THEY RUN contrary to yours....well to be blunt, it's none of your fucking business. 

 

That said,you are doing a great job with your room and I hope you stay on. It's the libs forum now though.

 

Change is inevitable.

It is what it is.  That's a leadership decision.   I'm not going anywhere, nor will I stamp my feet and hold my breath to get my way.  As far a it being none of my business  it kinda is, I am on the team and as a team member I have opinions,  I'll express them and  let the chips fall where they will. I don't have to get my way but I do want the ability to express my thoughts. 

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3 minutes ago, kfools said:

Also as a last effect. @lucifershammer is a moderator. So moderator business is his business. The lib mods and him should interact. They have a room for that.

 

So why is he a member of the council in the first place? He isn't a Liberal.

 

I'm only here because it's necessary I be here in order to implement the changes wanted and to answer council questions.

 

As I am neither a liberal nor a conservative  if you guys want me gone then kick me to the curb.  I'm only here to provide my input as a mod and nothing else.  If I want to fight I'll take that nonsense to NHB where it belongs.   But this is a place to watch our forum grow and suggest ways to make it better.  

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1 hour ago, Olivaw said:

@kfools @Ghostofkf,  why is this individual a moderator and why does he think he can overrule the liberal administrators and council?  If the liberal council and leadership team is a farce then come clean and don’t string us along with BS about libs running the forum. I want nothing to do with providing cover for Bugaloo Bois hate. 
 

@bludog, @RollingRock, @zkyllonen8, @impartialobserver, @SpyCar

 

IMO, no matter how clean the room, provocations and taunting can still occur if preposterous arguments are interpreted by the authorities as being legitimate.  And the second problem is that what is legitimate and what is preposterous is often determined by the political inclination of the the authorities in charge.  This would apply to any "clean" room.

 

"Member Debate", the strictest, most formal room of all is full of, in my view, some of the most absurd and petty topics on these boards.  Topics like:

RESOLVED:  Obama was a true fascist while Trump is not a fascist.

RESOLVED:  Do leftists suffer from TDS?

RESOLVED:  Should a spammer know whether you've deleted their email or not?

RESOLVED:  What is the optimal temperature of the earth?

 

The tone of these topics is reflected in many of the posts within.  And other topics in "Member Debates" often devolve into absurd taunting by simply presenting irrational arguments.  What is the solution?  Beats me.  But I don't often go in there.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, kfools said:

That should be done with thier elected moderators. 

 

Unless the council wants you here for some reason. Otherwise you should take it direct to leadership and have THEM explain to thier council why they decided what they did.

 

I know how this sounds but the Liberal take over was not a song and dance. They NEED to have total board control (within reason) 

I'm not going against the grain with anyone and I've went well out of my way not to step on any toes. I know where my lane is and that's that.

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3 minutes ago, lucifershammer said:

As I am neither a liberal nor a conservative  if you guys want me gone then kick me to the curb.  I'm only here to provide my input as a mod and nothing else.  If I want to fight I'll take that nonsense to NHB where it belongs.   But this is a place to watch our forum grow and suggest ways to make it better.  

 

Since you do not identify as a Liberal but not a Conservative either, I think you should be here.  I also invited kking as an honorary member but he declined.

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3 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

IMO, no matter how clean the room, provocations and taunting can still occur if preposterous arguments are interpreted by the authorities as being legitimate.  And the second problem is that what is legitimate and what is preposterous is often determined by the political inclination of the the authorities in charge.  This would apply to any "clean" room.

 

"Member Debate", the strictest, most formal room of all is full of, in my view, some of the most absurd and petty topics on these boards.  Topic like:

RESOLVED:  Obama was a true fascist while Trump is not a fascist.

RESOLVED:  Do leftists suffer from TDS?

RESOLVED:  Should a spammer know whether you've deleted their email or not?

RESOLVED:  What is the optimal temperature of the earth?

 

The tone of these topics is reflected in the posts within.  And other topics in "Member Debates" often devolve into absurd taunting by simply presenting irrational arguments.  What is the solution?  Beats me.  But I don't often go in there.

 

 

 

I just want an area without the trappings of NHB where dialog can actually happen with too much devolving. 

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