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Millenials are the looters

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Does anyone else find it strange that the media is avoiding calling the looters what they clearly appear to be as we watch them on tv: degenerate millenials? Seriously, it's not like there are middle-aged white women out there breaking into stores. Most of the people seem to be minorities, male and between 18 and 30. It's also interesting that news coverage seems to have completely missed the fact that none of this, either protests or looting, would be so bad if people weren't stuck at home because of Coronavirus. I mean, they have nothing to do. If these millenials had jobs to go to, they would have if things were normal. People are looking for an excuse to gather and feed off a crowd- like they do at sporting events.

And these protesters are the same people who don't vote, right? The same constituency that destroyed Bernie in the polls by not showing up to vote because they're useless. The same ones who are going to hand the election to Trump if he happens, by some stroke of really bad luck, to actually win. 

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The looters are a combination of white supremacists pretending to be ANTIFA, some ANTIFA, and a few other random extremist types that are using the riots as a reason to loot and destroy stuff.   It's no one group.  It is a hodgepodge of several groups, all "outsiders" in regard to the communities they're operating in.   They're infiltrating otherwise largely peaceful protests and causing destruction for their own selfish political agenda.

 

Quote

Does anyone else find it strange that the media is avoiding calling the looters what they clearly appear to be as we watch them on tv: degenerate millenials?

Most millenials I know are enthusiastic and idealistic, but the VAST majority are not violent.  

 

A good article I found:

 

Quote

Attorney General Bill Barr was slammed by the former assistant director for counterintelligence at the Federal Bureau of Investigation on Saturday for misleading Americans about the source of violence at the protests over the killing of George Floyd while in police custody.

 

“There’s evidence developing, Brian, that the organization we’re seeing of the most violent protesters is coming from a couple of disturbing places,” both, by the way, there’s disparate in terms in being from the right or the left. here’s what those who monitor these groups and sites are seeing.

 

“We’re seeing a far-right group, one group for example known as the Boogaloo Bois, who on their private Facebook page and social media outlets are calling for violence, calling for people to show up,” Frank Figliuzzi told MSNBC’s Brian Williams.

 

“We’re seeing evidence in the protests that right-wing dangerous militia groups are there. We’ve seen flags and symbols that come from both Boogaloo Bois and dangerous militia groups,” he warned. “On the far-left, we’re seeing some evidence developing of global anarchists showing up.”

 

“So we’re seeing a strange alignment occurring by some groups who are anti-government on the right and therefore anti-police because they think the police are too oppressive to them, aligning themselves with people like Black Lives Matter and saying, ‘hey, we’re one because we both don’t like the police,’ but I’m here to tell you they are not one, their intention is to destroy government and the system of justice, as opposed to calling for justice within the system.”

https://www.alternet.org/2020/05/ex-fbi-official-slams-bill-barr-for-ignoring-the-right-wing-boogaloo-bois-infiltrating-protests/

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45 minutes ago, Cecelia said:

The people who are looting are doing so out of frustration.  I'm not excusing their behavior -- I don't think it's right to loot, and I don't think they think it's right to loot either.  But they are frustrated.  Frustrated with Capitalism, frustrated with a failure to change anything, frustrated with businesses that refuse to give back to the community.  What the media hasn't mentioned is that police are exacerbating the situation.  And the media themselves is exacerbating it as well.  After all, which gets more coverage: A peaceful protest, or looting and rioting?  And police take a hard stance against peaceful protesters, which then encourages people to react.  

When Colin Kaepernick took a knee to protest the killing of unarmed black people by police, he was blacklisted from the NFL.  The President of the United States called him all sorts of nasty names.  When LeBron James spoke out, Laura Ingraham told him to "Shut up and Dribble".  When Drew Brees spoke out in favor of the flag, however, Laura Ingraham praised him.  Funny how she didn't tell him to shut up and throw the ball.  People see that.  They also see that when they shout as loud as they can, that nothing gets done.  People shouted for years from the rooftops about the problem with Baltimore Police. 

Police aren't helping matters either.  They show up in riot gear, and intimidate peaceful protesters.  Then they ignore the looters.  They run into peaceful protesters with their car, then sit and watch as people loot.  They push a 75-year old man to the ground protesting peacefully.  They make comments like Katie Crews did, wishing harm on protesters.  These cops are disgraceful, and the response has been disgraceful.  And of course you have our "President" who isn't making matters better, either.  

And you can say they should vote.  But democrats haven't fixed the problems.  Nobody has.  And that we'll do a better job isn't good enough.  There needs to be real change.  Which includes a more community-policing response to protests, rather than showing up in riot gear and talking about putting down peaceful protesters and shoving them down.  

 

 

 

Attacking the Democratic Party will only get us 4 more year of Donald J Trump.

 

Are you really going for a repeat Cecilia?

 

Bill

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

Attacking the Democratic Party will only get us 4 more year of Donald J Trump.

 

Are you really going for a repeat Cecilia?

 

Bill

 

 

 

"Vote for us, or the puppy gets it!"  is that really the slogan you want to be working with?  Holding the country hostage, rather than making the necessary sweeping changes?  You know who you sound like?  The Trump Cultists.  The very same people who gave us Donald Trump.

 

"You can't criticize (1)!  It'll just give us four more years of (2)! and you don't want that, do you?"

Pick One: 
(1) Trump, The Democrats

(2) Obama, Trump

 

How similar, that looks.  That may fly with conservatives -- because they don't like ideas being challenged.  But a core liberal belief is that ideas should be challenged and failures should be addressed.  A real pity, if that's not a core belief of the Democratic Party.  If they aren't open to criticism, then I don't see how they're any different from the Republican Party.   Yes, their ideas are nicer.  They're less cruel.  But if they want to crush all dissent, then it doesn't make them that much better at their core.  

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1 minute ago, Cecelia said:

 

"Vote for us, or the puppy gets it!"  is that really the slogan you want to be working with?  Holding the country hostage, rather than making the necessary sweeping changes?  You know who you sound like?  The Trump Cultists.  The very same people who gave us Donald Trump.

 

"You can't criticize (1)!  It'll just give us four more years of (2)! and you don't want that, do you?"

Pick One: 
(1) Trump, The Democrats

(2) Obama, Trump

 

How similar, that looks.  That may fly with conservatives -- because they don't like ideas being challenged.  But a core liberal belief is that ideas should be challenged and failures should be addressed.  A real pity, if that's not a core belief of the Democratic Party.  If they aren't open to criticism, then I don't see how they're any different from the Republican Party.   Yes, their ideas are nicer.  They're less cruel.  But if they want to crush all dissent, then it doesn't make them that much better at their core.  

 

People are frustrated. They are frustrated with people like you who helped put a fascist into power.

 

Those who attack Democrats with people like Trump on the ballot are just as complict in what's happening as the police officers who stood by while Floyd was murdered.

 

This is on YOU!

 

Bill

 

 

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Those who attack Democrats with people like Trump on the ballot are just as complict in what's happening as the police officers who stood by while Floyd was murdered.

Nobody's "attacking."  People are free to criticize the things they see as wrong about a nominee or a party, in general.  This subforum is to discuss how to fix things......NOT to attack other posters because they disagree.  That's why we have NHB.  

 

We need constructive discussion here, not "vote shaming."  People will vote for whom they feel will address the issues they care about.

 

Quote

This is on YOU!

 

Bill

Cecilia is ONE poster (with ONE vote).  It's not "on" her.  The onus is on the nominee to EARN people's votes.  Votes don't come automatically.

 

Left-of-center voters don't have any legal or moral obligation to vote for a candidate who doesn't speak for the issues they care about.  Instead of blaming people, why not voice the points about Biden that you believe will bring in the votes to win in November?  Convince people!  Don't shame them simply because they disagree with you.  Denying there are issues in the Democratic party that haven't been corrected isn't "attacking."  It's fact in the eyes of many.  

 

 

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Just now, SpyCar said:

 

People are frustrated. They are frustrated with people like you who helped put a fascist into power.

 

Those who attack Democrats with people like Trump on the ballot are just as complict in what's happening as the police officers who stood by while Floyd was murdered.

 

This is on YOU!

 

Bill

 

 

 

Ahh, the blame game.  When you fail to take responsibility for your failures, and put it on someone else.  Hint:  Playing the blame game here, doesn't make you look good.  It doesn't appeal to voters.  It doesn't appeal to anyone.  Don't be surprised if, when you tell people "Fall in line, or get out!" that people take the latter suggestion instead of the former.

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5 minutes ago, Cecelia said:

 

Ahh, the blame game.  When you fail to take responsibility for your failures, and put it on someone else.  Hint:  Playing the blame game here, doesn't make you look good.  It doesn't appeal to voters.  It doesn't appeal to anyone.  Don't be surprised if, when you tell people "Fall in line, or get out!" that people take the latter suggestion instead of the former.

 

It is NOT A GAME!

 

We are living with the consequences of your complicity.

 

The failure to take responsibility for your actions is on YOU.

 

Bill

 

 

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1 hour ago, SpyCar said:

 

It is NOT A GAME!

 

We are living with the consequences of your complicity.

 

The failure to take responsibility for your actions is on YOU.

 

Bill

 

 

Bill, please STOP with the blamng and personal attacks in this subforum.

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Just now, RollingRock said:

Bill, please STOP with the blamng and personal attacks in this subforum.

 

There have been no personal attacks.

 

Big surprise that YOU would attempt to chill legitimate speech.

 

Bill

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1 hour ago, SpyCar said:

 

There have been no personal attacks.

 

Big surprise that YOU would attempt to chill legitimate speech.

 

Bill

Yes, there have been personal attacks.  Telling a poster that everything bad is on HER is the epitome of a personal attack.

 

I'm trying to promote constructive discussion here versus hurling blame at others.  The former is wanted and needed.   Hurling blame at individual posters isn't going to be tolerated in this area.  That's absolutely a personal attack.

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1 minute ago, SpyCar said:

 

It is NOT A GAME!

 

We are living with the consequences of your complicity.

 

The failure to take responsibility for your actions is on YOU.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Ok, Boomer.

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7 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

Yes, there have been personal attacks.  Telling a poster that everything bad is on HER is the epitome of a personal attack.

 

I'm trying to promote constructive discussion versus hurling blame at others.  The former is wanted and needed.   Hurling blame at individual posters isn't going to be tolerated in this area.  That's absolutely a personal attack.

 

It is not. It is the reality of the situation.

 

You should step down as a moderator. It is very clear that you can not separate your political bias against liberal Democrats--who undersand that we are at war we cant afford to lose--from your official duties.

 

Please resign immediately.

 

Stop trying to chill legitimate disagreements. This should not be a troll sub-forum. Step down. Now.

 

Bill

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27 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

 

 

Nobody's "attacking."  People are free to criticize the things they see as wrong about a nominee or a party, in general.  This forum is to discuss how to fix things......NOT attack other posters because they disagree.

 

We need constructive discussion here, not "vote shaming."  People will vote for whom they feel will address the issues they care about.

 

Cecilia is ONE poster (with ONE vote).  It's not "on" her.  The onus is on the nominee to EARN people's votes.  Votes don't come automatically.

 

Left-of-center voters don't have any legal or moral obligation to vote for a candidate who doesn't speak for the issues they care about.  Instead of blaming people, why not voice the points about Biden that you believe will bring in the votes to win in November?  Convince people!  Don't shame them simply because they disagree with you.  Denying there are issues in the Democratic party that haven't been corrected isn't "attacking."  It's fact in the eyes of many.  

 

 

 

What's a "fact in the eyes of many" is that those of you who sat out the election in 2016 are culpable in all that's flowed from your decisions.

 

BIll

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2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

It is not.

It is.  And  you need to stop.  Cecilia posted a long, heartfelt post about the state of the country.  ONE sentence, in the last f'ing paragraph, said, "But democrats haven't fixed the problems." and you went off on her.  Unnecessary.

 

2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

It is the reality of the situation.

Then word it in a civil manner, don't blame other posters.

 

2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

You should step down as a moderator.

Won't happen.  Not on your say so.  

 

2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

It is very clear that you can not separate your political bias against liberal Democrats--

I like most liberal Democrats.  I simply have a problem with angry people, of any political stripe, who blame others instead of addressing the problems within the current Democratic party.   It's divisive and wholly unnecessary in this subforum.

 

2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

Stop trying to chill legitimate disagreements. This should not be a troll sub-forum. Step down. Now.

 

Bill

I won't stop trying to chill legitimate disagreements.  I WILL stop direct personal attacks on other posters, simply because of their political views (which is what you're doing).  

 

Tout the good in the Democratic party, Bill.  There's lots of good there.  But don't attack others simply because they see a flaw.  Let's discuss it and FIX IT!!!

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6 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

What's a "fact in the eyes of many" is that those of you who sat out the election in 2016 are culpable in all that's flowed from your decisions.

 

BIll

Again, this line of rhetoric needs to stop.  I didn't "sit out" of the 2016 election.  I cast a vote.  There were simply no presidential candidates that I could support, so I didn't complete that section of the ballot.

 

I'm not required to vote for candidates I don't like and don't support.   Candidates are required to reach out to me with their stances on the issues and WIN my vote.  Otherwise, they don't get my vote. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, RollingRock said:

Again, this line of rhetoric needs to stop.  I didn't "sit out" of the 2016 election.  I cast a vote.  There were simply no presidential candidates that I could support, so I didn't complete that section of the ballot.

 

I'm not required to vote for candidates I don't like and don't support.  

 

 

 

It isn't "rhetoric," it is an important and necessary discussion to have.

 

Since you can not seem to avoid abusing your mod position to chill free speech that runs counter to your agenda, I'm formally calling you you to step down.

 

Bill

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3 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

It isn't "rhetoric," it is an important and necessary discussion to have.

I agree.  But instead of discussing it in a civil, non-attacking manner, you attacked the OP and blamed all that's wrong directly on her.  THAT isn't going to fly here.  Spirited, non-personal debate is welcome.  Please learn the difference.

 

Quote

Since you can not seem to avoid abusing your mod position to chill free speech that runs counter to your agenda, I'm formally calling you you to step down.

 

Bill

Again, not happening.  Not on your SOLE say so.   "Free speech" in this area is contingent on the subforum rules, one of which is to "post respectfully, no personal attacks."  

 

In discussion of these rules, you supported no personal attacks.  What's changed?

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2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

It isn't "rhetoric," it is an important and necessary discussion to have.

 

Since you can not seem to avoid abusing your mod position to chill free speech that runs counter to your agenda, I'm formally calling you you to step down.

 

Bill


Blaming people for Hillary's Loss = Necessary and Important discussion.

 

Recognizing the failures of the Democratic Party to fix the Justice System = WE CANNOT TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT MIGHT LOSE BIDEN THE ELECTION!  FALL IN LINE!

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5 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

It is.  And  you need to stop.  Cecilia posted a long, heartfelt post about the state of the country.  ONE sentence, in the last f'ing paragraph, said, "But democrats haven't fixed the problems." and you went off on her.  Unnecessary.

 

Then word it in a civil manner, don't blame other posters.

 

Won't happen.  Not on your say so.  

 

I like most liberal Democrats.  I simply have a problem with angry people, of any political stripe, who blame others instead of addressing the problems within the current Democratic party.   It's divisive and wholly unnecessary in this subforum.

 

I won't stop trying to chill legitimate disagreements.  I WILL stop direct personal attacks on other posters, simply because of their political views (which is what you're doing).  

 

Tout the good in the Democratic party, Bill.  There's lots of good there.  But don't attack others simply because they see a flaw.  Let's discuss it and FIX IT!!!

 

Nah. I've been dismissed as a "boomer" (agism is a form of bigotry) accused of playing a "blame game" (disrespectful), accused of "holding the country hostage," told I sound like a "Trumpist Cultist" (a personal attack if there ever was one, yet you attempt to give these ruile violations cover under your abuse of authority.

 

You must step down. Do the right thing.

 

Bill

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7 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

I agree.  But instead of discussing it in a civil, non-attacking manner, you attacked the OP and blamed all that's wrong directly on her.  THAT isn't going to fly here.  Spirited, non-personal debate is welcome.  Please learn the difference.

 

Again, not happening.  Not on your SOLE say so.   "Free speech" in this area is contingent on the subforum rules, one of which is to "post respectfully, no personal attacks."  

 

In discussion of these rules, you supported no personal attacks.  What's changed?

 

Don't try to "re-frame" my words. Those who stood out (or voted Green or wrote in Bernie) are complict in getting Donald Trump elected president. That's manifestly clear.

 

Being called a "Trump Cultist" by Cecilia is a personal attack. No "moderation there. LOL.

 

Being called on behaviors that helped Trump get elected is NOT a personal attack. It is a reasonable criticism and trying to chill my free speech is not cool.

 

Your bias makes you disqualified to moderate this sub-forum. Resign.

 

Bill

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1 minute ago, SpyCar said:

 

Nah. I've been dismissed as a "boomer" (agism is a form of bigotry) accused of playing a "blame game" (disrespectful), accused of "holding the country hostage," told I sound like a "Trumpist Cultist" (a personal attack if there ever was one, yet you attempt to give these ruile violations cover under your abuse of authority.

 

You must step down. Do the right thing.

 

Bill

You started it, Bill.   Should people respond to YOUR personal attacks with politeness?  That's not how it works, THAT'S WHY I DON'T WANT PERSONAL ATTACKS TO BEGIN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Once one incendiary bomb is thrown on a forum, the subsequent responses are just as incendiary.   It's what happens when people blame and attack others without merit.

 

I'm not going anywhere....not on your say so anyway.  :)  If I'm being unreasonable, I ask @zyklonnen or @bludog to step in and address all this with me in mod discussion.  I'm not saying don't discuss this - I'm saying don't run around blaming individual posters and attacking people.

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