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California: 1,200 pastors say they will defy state order and resume services

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1,200 California pastors to defy state's stay-at-home order on May ...

 

 

 

I would simple have the National Guard padlock the doors and post a notice of the penalties that would be incurred for breaking the law.

A little drone surveillance wouldn't hurt either.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/21/california-pastors-services-stay-home-order

(Full article at above link)

 

 

More than 1,200 California pastors say they will resume in-person services this month in defiance of Governor Gavin Newsom’s stay-at-home order to slow the spread of coronavirus.

Newsom has gradually allowed some businesses to reopen as the state’s number of virus-related hospitalizations has flattened. But churches are still banned, along with hair salons and sporting events. Newsom said on Monday churches will remain closed.

Attorney Robert Tyler said some pastors represent multiple churches. He expects as many as 3,000 churches across California could have in-person services on 31 May.

“We are not asking the government for permission,” he said.

The letter comes one day after the head of the US justice department’s civil rights division told Newsom in a letter that his stay-at-home order discriminates against churches and places an “unfair burden” on them.

Representatives from Newsom’s office and the California department of public health stated there would be ramifications if the law is violated.

California has more than 85,700 coronavirus cases and more than 3,400 deaths, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.  

California was the first state to issue a mandatory stay-at-home order to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Nearly all of the state’s churches complied with the order, with most holding services online for people to worship in their homes.

 “It’s been extremely difficult to stay in contact with people, especially to deal with people and their psychological, emotional and spiritual needs,” said Barclay, who signed the letter and plans to resume services on 31 May. “It really has hurt the psyche and the spirit of people.” (Aww, too fucking bad.-drvoke)

 

 

 

Over 1,200 Pastors Defy State Lockdown Orders, Vow To Resume ...

 

 

NO, THEY ARE NOT ESSENTIAL. 

I would love to hear the argument for that case. I'm sure it would be endlessly amusing.

 

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

Seem fairly straight forward to me … The Governor needs to declare martial law or get out of the way of the 1st Amendment ...

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47 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

1,200 California pastors to defy state's stay-at-home order on May ...

 

 

 

I would simple have the National Guard padlock the doors and post a notice of the penalties that would be incurred for breaking the law.

A little drone surveillance wouldn't hurt either.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/21/california-pastors-services-stay-home-order

(Full article at above link)

 

 

More than 1,200 California pastors say they will resume in-person services this month in defiance of Governor Gavin Newsom’s stay-at-home order to slow the spread of coronavirus.

Newsom has gradually allowed some businesses to reopen as the state’s number of virus-related hospitalizations has flattened. But churches are still banned, along with hair salons and sporting events. Newsom said on Monday churches will remain closed.

Attorney Robert Tyler said some pastors represent multiple churches. He expects as many as 3,000 churches across California could have in-person services on 31 May.

“We are not asking the government for permission,” he said.

The letter comes one day after the head of the US justice department’s civil rights division told Newsom in a letter that his stay-at-home order discriminates against churches and places an “unfair burden” on them.

Representatives from Newsom’s office and the California department of public health stated there would be ramifications if the law is violated.

California has more than 85,700 coronavirus cases and more than 3,400 deaths, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.  

California was the first state to issue a mandatory stay-at-home order to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Nearly all of the state’s churches complied with the order, with most holding services online for people to worship in their homes.

 “It’s been extremely difficult to stay in contact with people, especially to deal with people and their psychological, emotional and spiritual needs,” said Barclay, who signed the letter and plans to resume services on 31 May. “It really has hurt the psyche and the spirit of people.” (Aww, too fucking bad.-drvoke)

 

 

 

Over 1,200 Pastors Defy State Lockdown Orders, Vow To Resume ...

 

 

NO, THEY ARE NOT ESSENTIAL. 

I would love to hear the argument for that case. I'm sure it would be endlessly amusing.

 

I'm an atheist but if the government did that I'd be the first one to protest right along side the religious folks.  

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1 hour ago, drvoke said:

 

1,200 California pastors to defy state's stay-at-home order on May ...

 

 

 

I would simple have the National Guard padlock the doors and post a notice of the penalties that would be incurred for breaking the law.

A little drone surveillance wouldn't hurt either.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/21/california-pastors-services-stay-home-order

(Full article at above link)

 

 

More than 1,200 California pastors say they will resume in-person services this month in defiance of Governor Gavin Newsom’s stay-at-home order to slow the spread of coronavirus.

Newsom has gradually allowed some businesses to reopen as the state’s number of virus-related hospitalizations has flattened. But churches are still banned, along with hair salons and sporting events. Newsom said on Monday churches will remain closed.

Attorney Robert Tyler said some pastors represent multiple churches. He expects as many as 3,000 churches across California could have in-person services on 31 May.

“We are not asking the government for permission,” he said.

The letter comes one day after the head of the US justice department’s civil rights division told Newsom in a letter that his stay-at-home order discriminates against churches and places an “unfair burden” on them.

Representatives from Newsom’s office and the California department of public health stated there would be ramifications if the law is violated.

California has more than 85,700 coronavirus cases and more than 3,400 deaths, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.  

California was the first state to issue a mandatory stay-at-home order to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Nearly all of the state’s churches complied with the order, with most holding services online for people to worship in their homes.

 “It’s been extremely difficult to stay in contact with people, especially to deal with people and their psychological, emotional and spiritual needs,” said Barclay, who signed the letter and plans to resume services on 31 May. “It really has hurt the psyche and the spirit of people.” (Aww, too fucking bad.-drvoke)

 

 

 

Over 1,200 Pastors Defy State Lockdown Orders, Vow To Resume ...

 

 

NO, THEY ARE NOT ESSENTIAL. 

I would love to hear the argument for that case. I'm sure it would be endlessly amusing.

 


With ABC stores being considered essential, I think the pastors have a reasonable claim for reopening. 

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If the Constitution does not address pandemics, then the Constitution is irrelevant to this situation.

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1 hour ago, Duck615 said:

Separation of Church and State you POS unAmerican

Nobody's being denied their right to or not to believe in whatever faith they choose, this is a public health issue. So do you think hanging Christmas lights on your home during ww2 with blackouts being implemented is infringing on ones ability to practice their faith?

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Why don't they hold services outside? Apparently there is evidence that this virus doesn't spread as easily outside and people can keep social distance much easier. 

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2 hours ago, drvoke said:

 

1,200 California pastors to defy state's stay-at-home order on May ...

 

 

I would simple have the National Guard padlock the doors and post a notice of the penalties that would be incurred for breaking the law.

 

 

On Thursday, March 19th, Idris Abdul-Zahir, an imam in West Oak Lane, Philadelphia, wrestled with whether his mosque, Masjidullah, should open the following afternoon for the Friday prayer service, in the face of the coronavirus pandemic. The mosque, one of about seventy in the Philadelphia area, has almost a thousand members. It also hosts a day-care center for nearly two hundred children, called the Masjidullah Early Child Care Academy, or mecca; an online Islamic school for forty students, called the New Medina Institute; Islamic girl- and boy-scout troops, the Alimah and Jawala Scouts, respectively; two senior-citizen groups; and a food program that has distributed fresh produce to hungry people for the past thirty years. The day-care center, which had closed earlier in the week, provides breakfast and lunch to all students, many of whom are among the twelve per cent of children in Philadelphia who face food insecurity. Amid the closure of public schools and other programs, Masjidullah was scrambling to try to keep feeding children. “If we don’t stay open, these kids are going to go hungry,” Abdul-Zahir told me. “The threat of covid-19 is not as real for some people as the threat of hunger.”

 

Abdul-Zahir, who is forty, with a baby face and sleepy eyes, grew up in the city’s Germantown neighborhood. His parents helped found Masjidullah in the predominantly African-American neighborhood of West Oak Lane forty years ago. Abdul-Zahir attended Temple and Drexel Universities and currently keeps a day job managing I.T. systems for the city of Philadelphia. He also has a film-production company, and, in 2012, he worked with Black Public Media to direct a Web series called “Ask a Muslim,” in which Muslim-Americans answered questions about their faith. “So many people were saying things about Islam after 9/11,” he told me, “but no one was actually asking black Muslims for answers.” For the past two years, he served as assistant imam at Masjidullah, but, in mid-March, just a few weeks ago, he was sworn in as head imam. The arrival of covid-19 thrust him into the same position as many religious leaders, who are trying to guide their congregations through a public-health crisis. In many places around the world, large worship gatherings had helped spread the virus. “I was put in place as imam here to work through difficult issues,” he told me.

 

 

For spiritual guidance, Abdul-Zahir looked to the Quran and the Hadith, the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. “If you hear of an outbreak of plague in a land, do not enter it; but if the plague breaks out in a place while you are in it, do not leave that place,” the Prophet had said—a thirteen-hundred-year-old shelter-in-place order. However, elsewhere Muhammad had emphasized the importance of Jumuah prayer, the Friday service. “In Islam, it’s obligatory for men to gather on Friday to pray,” Abdul-Zahir told me. After two conference calls with his members, he felt that he needed to keep the mosque open for prayer and food services. “I have overwhelming support that people want to come out,” he told me.

 

“We’re prepared to take the proper precautions, but we need to stay open. If we don’t, I don’t know how people who are not being paid are going to survive.” Given the mosque’s large space, he believed that at least six feet between congregants could be easily maintained. “On an average day, I might shake one hundred hands,” he said. “I’m somewhat of a germophobe, so I already use Purell.” On March 19th, there were only eighteen diagnosed cases of covid-19 in the Philadelphia area. (Due to a lack of testing and the fact that many carriers are asymptomatic, the number of cases was probably much higher.) “Even if I multiply that by ten, that’s still only a hundred and eighty in a city of 1.5 million people,” he told me. “At least in my opinion, it’s not time to hit the bunkers yet.”

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31 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

If the Constitution does not address pandemics, then the Constitution is irrelevant to this situation.

said every person who marches in lock-step and is void of independent thought

… (looks like, smells, like facist nazism to me -- why don't just go round up some jews and gas them to death while you are at it)  

 

The thing about freedom is you do not get to force upon me what you believe ... no one has that right

 

... I believe if the church use the safe guidelines they will be fine .... and if your believes are different ... then do not go to church ... 

 

If you you start taking away peoples freedoms ... there will be a lot of people who will stand up against that ... a lot ... 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, neilcar said:

said every person who marches in lock-step and is void of independent thought

… (looks like, smells, like facist nazism to me -- why don't just go round up some jews and gas them to death while you are at it)  

 

The thing about freedom is you do not get to force upon me what you believe ... no one has that right

 

... I believe if the church use the safe guidelines they will be fine .... and if your believes are different ... then do not go to church ... 

 

If you you start taking away peoples freedoms ... there will be a lot of people who will stand up against that ... a lot ... 

 

 

 

 

 

You are missing the point (of course). If you contract the virus by going to church, you may spread the virus to people who are not feebleminded dolts that are outside of church. This is not about your precious little personal sense of freedom. It is much more important than that. It is safeguarding society. If you violate the law, you will be placed in a cage. Period.

 

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13 minutes ago, Old Mack said:

 

sob story

 

 

 

They can pass out food in the mosque's parking lot. As far as the chanting (or whatever the hell they do) THE MOSQUE IS CLOSED.

 

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2 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

 

You are missing the point (of course). If you contract the virus by going to church, you may spread the virus to people who are not feebleminded dolts that are outside of church. This is not about your precious little personal sense of freedom. It is much more important than that. It is safeguarding society. If you violate the law, you will be placed in a cage. 

 

Minor point … to what law are you referring to  …  

 

I would politely suggest that if you interfere with people basic Constitutional Rights … then it is you who are breaking the law and should be place in a cage...  

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3 hours ago, drvoke said:

I would simple have the National Guard padlock the doors and post a notice of the penalties that would be incurred for breaking the law.

A little drone surveillance wouldn't hurt either.

Yeah, let all the convicts out of the prison to make room for the parishioners.

 

That sounds like a good plan.

 

And you wonder why people are carrying guns in the streets.

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1 hour ago, rippy38 said:

Yeah, let all the convicts out of the prison to make room for the parishioners.

 

That sounds like a good plan.

 

And you wonder why people are carrying guns in the streets.

 

I wouldn't let the convicts out of prison.

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4 hours ago, drvoke said:

 

1,200 California pastors to defy state's stay-at-home order on May ...

 

 

 

I would simple have the National Guard padlock the doors and post a notice of the penalties that would be incurred for breaking the law.

A little drone surveillance wouldn't hurt either.

 

 

You do know that move would lead to violence right? I am willing to bet you would get a lot of National Guardsmen refuse those orders. We have a lot of National Guardsmen refuse to confiscate guns orders during Katrina. 

 

People are on edge and if your side ratchets up the authoritarianism, the people will revolt. I don't think you lefties have any idea what you are doing or dealing with. 

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8 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

I wouldn't let the convicts out of prison.

So... lock them in the church and then burn it down, like the redcoats did in that movie The Patriot?

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8 minutes ago, rippy38 said:

So... lock them in the church and then burn it down, like the redcoats did in that movie The Patriot?

 

That's based on a real event, but in Europe.

 

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5 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

That's based on a real event, but in Europe.

 

So yes?

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12 minutes ago, Redoctober said:

You do know that move would lead to violence right? I am willing to bet you would get a lot of National Guardsmen refuse those orders. We have a lot of National Guardsmen refuse to confiscate guns orders during Katrina. 

 

People are on edge and if your side ratchets up the authoritarianism, the people will revolt. I don't think you lefties have any idea what you are doing or dealing with. 

 

 

OH I'M FUCKING SHAKING IN MY BOOTS - Correction Guy | Meme Generator

 

 

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2 minutes ago, rippy38 said:

So yes?

 

I was thinking a violation of lockdown policy. More of a ticket than burning at the stake.

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13 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

I was thinking a violation of lockdown policy. More of a ticket than burning at the stake.

Until 75 million people throw their tickets in the trash.

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Listen to these simple minded Muslims who believe in a invisible man:

 

Islam teaches that all diseases such as the Coronavirus [Covid-19] are tests from Allah and a natural part of life. Such diseases afflict whomever Allah allows them to afflict and they take the lives of whomever He has decided to bring to an end.[ Tests are a natural, albeit difficult, part of life and should not be surprising for any Muslim when they occur. Allah says, “We shall certainly test you with fear and hunger, and loss of property, lives, and crops. But [Prophet], give good news to those who are steadfast.” [Qur’an 2:155]

 

Anyone who is afflicted with the illness, and is patient, will spiritually benefit from that test. The Prophet said, “Whatever trouble, illness, anxiety, grief, hurt or sorrow afflicts any Muslim, even the prick of a thorn, God removes some of his sins by it.” [Bukhārī #5641] Regarding illnesses leading to death, the Prophet was asked about the plague. He responded, “It is a torment with which Allah afflicts those whom He chooses, but He has made it a mercy for the believers. If a servant [of Allah] is afflicted with the plague and patiently remains in his town, realizing that he has only been afflicted with what Allah has determined for him, he will have the reward of a martyr.” [Bukhārī #5734]

 

Islam requires us to both put our trust in Allah and utilize the means to protect ourselves when possible.

 

The Qur’an teaches us, as told to the Prophet, “Say: Nothing will afflict us except what Allah has decided for us.” [Qur’an 9:51]

Simultaneously though, we should take precautions by using medicine when ill, or quarantine when threatened with illness.

 

...The Prophet replied, “Yes, you may use medicine.  Allah has not created any disease without also creating its cure, except one: old age.” [Abū Dāwūd #3855, graded ṣaḥīḥ by scholars] The Prophet clarified that the use of medicine is permissible and even encouraged, and that this does not violate the concept of trust in Allah.

 

...Anyone testing positive for Covid-19 is not allowed to attend community events since they would be harming other people, and that is prohibited. The same applies for people who have traveled to the most affected areas such as China, Italy, Iran, and South Korea.

 

...Muslims should benefit from the lessons that such tests teach us. Imam Al-ʿIzz ibn Abdussalam [d. 1262 CE] explained that a calamity has the following benefits: 

 

It leads people to sincerity and causes them to repent for their mistakes. Pain or suffering that brings people closer to Allah is not actually a calamity, but a blessing in the greater scheme of things.

It is an opportunity to appreciate the blessings that people having been enjoying but neglected due to heedlessness.

 

It gives people an opportunity to have their sins purified by being patient and responding in the correct way to the calamity.

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29 minutes ago, rippy38 said:

Until 75 million people throw their tickets in the trash.

 

That's what traffic stops down the road are for. The impounding of vehicles until fines are paid.

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