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JeanMoulin

Are there any liberal Democrats left on this forum?

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If so, you know now that the Sanders revolution is over. You need to pick a winner, and that winner is Joe Biden. If you want THE FAT PIG gone, you know what you have to do. I know some here are going to vote for someone in the peace and freedom party, or the green party. Just don't come back here and bitch when you hand this election to THE PIG. Vote for Biden and cleanse this nation. Restore decency.

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11 minutes ago, JeanMoulin said:

If so, you know now that the Sanders revolution is over. You need to pick a winner, and that winner is Joe Biden. If you want THE FAT PIG gone, you know what you have to do. I know some here are going to vote for someone in the peace and freedom party, or the green party. Just don't come back here and bitch when you hand this election to THE PIG. Vote for Biden and cleanse this nation. Restore decency.

 

See this is the Problem. 

 

The revolution is not over it is far from over. 

 

Why would I roll over and vote for someone like Biden that for the past 40 years has passed NAFTA, the crime bill, bankruptcy bill, etc. 

 

Joe Biden is suffering from some sort of Mental Deterioration, and this is very troublesome, he can barely hold together a sentence during a debate, rally or TV interview. 

 

HE will get eviscerated by Trump on the Debate Stage. 

 

Fair and Square Joe will not beat Trump. 

 

IT will be a repeat of 2016 if he is nominated, just this time he will be a even worse candidate than Hillary was....

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According to Google this is the definition of a liberal

 

"open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values."

 

Joe Biden has stated that Nothing will fundamentally change underneath his rule, so if anything he is farthest thing from a "Liberal Democrat" 

 

You sort of sound like TrollCar saying that he is a "Liberal Democrat"

 

Bernie is the closest thing we have left to a Liberal Democrat. 

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1 minute ago, zkyllonen8 said:

 

See this is the Problem. 

 

The revolution is not over it is far from over. 

 

Why would I roll over and vote for someone like Biden that for the past 40 years has passed NAFTA, the crime bill, bankruptcy bill, etc. 

 

Joe Biden is suffering from some sort of Mental Deterioration, and this is very troublesome, he can barely hold together a sentence during a debate, rally or TV interview. 

 

HE will get eviscerated by Trump on the Debate Stage. 

 

Fair and Square Joe will not beat Trump. 

 

IT will be a repeat of 2016 if he is nominated, just this time he will be a even worse candidate than Hillary was....

This is a problem. If Biden as you state can not beat THE PIG, who in your twisted mind can? Sanders? Hog and corn farmers will never vote for Sanders, nor will the south and the rust belt. You live in a fantasy land. It's been already proven that they don't want Warren or Sanders.

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5 minutes ago, zkyllonen8 said:

According to Google this is the definition of a liberal

 

"open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values."

 

Joe Biden has stated that Nothing will fundamentally change underneath his rule, so if anything he is farthest thing from a "Liberal Democrat" 

 

You sort of sound like TrollCar saying that he is a "Liberal Democrat"

 

Bernie is the closest thing we have left to a Liberal Democrat. 

Google doesn't know shit about what it's going to take to win this election. You and the rest of you Sanders supporters will try to fvck this election up.

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9 minutes ago, JeanMoulin said:

This is a problem. If Biden as you state can not beat THE PIG, who in your twisted mind can? Sanders? Hog and corn farmers will never vote for Sanders, nor will the south and the rust belt. You live in a fantasy land. It's been already proven that they don't want Warren or Sanders.

How is Biden going to be able to win the Rust Belt by supporting two of the most disastrous Trade deals we have ever been In NAFTA and TPP??? 

 

NAFTA polls awful here, I live in Michigan I would know. 

 

The South BTW does not matter, TRUMP will destroy any Democrat that gets put up into the nomination. 

 

5 minutes ago, JeanMoulin said:

Google doesn't know shit about what it's going to take to win this election. You and the rest of you Sanders supporters will try to fvck this election up.

 

See why would I want to support a Establishment Candidate once again, You are the REASON why we do not want to support someone like Biden.  

 

Quick Question if Bernie becomes the Nominee will you vote for him?? 

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1 hour ago, JeanMoulin said:

If so, you know now that the Sanders revolution is over.

Bernie's political revolution isn't solely about running for president.  Bernie's political revolution is about transforming our political system into one that represents average Americans, not the wealthiest or the big corporations.  It's about getting involved in the political process from running for president all the way down to running for local and town offices. It's about transforming the Democratic party into a party that works for US (the people). 

 

To do that, we need to work towards getting big money OUT of politics and vote in representatives who are in office to help their constituents, NOT to feed at the lobbyist trough and ignore the voters (which happens far more than it should).  Our Revolution is about empowering the poor and middle class (the folks both parties have ignored far too often in this country).  It's definitely not just about Bernie running for president. 

 

Quote

You need to pick a winner, and that winner is Joe Biden.

If Biden is nominated, I will vote for him.  Joe's a good guy and a proven leader. I just disagree with him on key issues that are extremely important to me.  But I agree that, if nominated, he would be infinitely better than Cheeto.  I'm not sure our country could take another 4 years of Trump.  

 

Quote

If you want THE FAT PIG gone, you know what you have to do. I know some here are going to vote for someone in the peace and freedom party, or the green party. Just don't come back here and bitch when you hand this election to THE PIG.

People are going to vote for whom they feel they can support.  Myself, I'm "all in" on getting rid of Trump.  I'll vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is.  

 

Quote

Vote for Biden and cleanse this nation. Restore decency.

If he is nominated, I'll vote for Joe Biden.  Bernie Sanders will vote for him, too, if nominated.  He said as much last night on Rachel Maddow.

 

In the interim, we have three dozen or so primaries to go (including American territories) as well as debates.   Let's let the process play out.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, zkyllonen8 said:

How is Biden going to be able to win the Rust Belt by supporting two of the most disastrous Trade deals we have ever been In NAFTA and TPP??? 

 

NAFTA polls awful here, I live in Michigan I would know. 

 

The South BTW does not matter, TRUMP will destroy any Democrat that gets put up into the nomination. 

 

 

See why would I want to support a Establishment Candidate once again, You are the REASON why we do not want to support someone like Biden.  

 

Quick Question if Bernie becomes the Nominee will you vote for him?? 

 He won't be, but yes I will vote for him. What choice would I have in that case? Stay home like you did the last time?

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13 minutes ago, JeanMoulin said:

 He won't be, but yes I will vote for him. What choice would I have in that case? Stay home like you did the last time?

 

LOL I couldn't even vote last time. 

 

But if Biden does become the nominee I will vote for him over Trump no doubt, but I will have my concerns for this country going forward. 

 

He wants to return to the Status Quo and that simply put is not enough for me to be enthusiastic to vote for him. 

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12 hours ago, zkyllonen8 said:

He (Biden) wants to return to the Status Quo..

 

Unacceptable to us Progressives.  But a magnitude better than the corrupt, pompous, High Lord Trump.  This time around, we may have to accept the odious compromise of a sadly deteriorating, corporate Democrat over a dangerously irresponsible, Fascist wannabee.  Why did it have to come to this?

 

 

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Joe Biden is not a winner.  I'll vote for him, because the alternative is spray-tan Hitler.  But make no mistake.  Joe Biden will not win the election in 2020.  The moderates once again pick and choose the winner, and once again they pick someone who can't win.  

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On 3/5/2020 at 10:07 PM, bludog said:

 

Unacceptable to us Progressives.  But a magnitude better than the corrupt, pompous, High Lord Trump.  This time around, we may have to accept the odious compromise of a sadly deteriorating, corporate Democrat over a dangerously irresponsible, Fascist wannabee.  Why did it have to come to this?

 

 

we'll vote for Biden if it comes down to that in order to get rid of Trump, as we must. But we got to know what is right and not ever give up on progress regarding a rigged economic system 

that is corrupt. We stifle true innovation and growth whenever we give up what's right. We have got to start working towards a better future for all. Do not be dismayed.

Peace!

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On 3/5/2020 at 9:23 PM, RollingRock said:

Bernie's political revolution isn't solely about running for president.  Bernie's political revolution is about transforming our political system into one that represents average Americans, not the wealthiest or the big corporations.  It's about getting involved in the political process from running for president all the way down to running for local and town offices. It's about transforming the Democratic party into a party that works for US (the people). 

 

To do that, we need to work towards getting big money OUT of politics and vote in representatives who are in office to help their constituents, NOT to feed at the lobbyist trough and ignore the voters (which happens far more than it should).  Our Revolution is about empowering the poor and middle class (the folks both parties have ignored far too often in this country).  It's definitely not just about Bernie running for president. 

 

If Biden is nominated, I will vote for him.  Joe's a good guy and a proven leader. I just disagree with him on key issues that are extremely important to me.  But I agree that, if nominated, he would be infinitely better than Cheeto.  I'm not sure our country could take another 4 years of Trump.  

 

People are going to vote for whom they feel they can support.  Myself, I'm "all in" on getting rid of Trump.  I'll vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is.  

 

If he is nominated, I'll vote for Joe Biden.  Bernie Sanders will vote for him, too, if nominated.  He said as much last night on Rachel Maddow.

 

In the interim, we have three dozen or so primaries to go (including American territories) as well as debates.   Let's let the process play out.

 

 

We'll let it play out. He has every right to stay in the race. I'm of the opinion that this isn't the time for a revolution. The house is on fire. When your house is on fire you're not thinking about remodeling the kitchen. You're focused on putting out the fire, cleaning up the mess, and repairing the damage. After that you can think about remodeling the kitchen.

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On 3/6/2020 at 12:07 AM, bludog said:

 

Unacceptable to us Progressives.  But a magnitude better than the corrupt, pompous, High Lord Trump.  This time around, we may have to accept the odious compromise of a sadly deteriorating, corporate Democrat over a dangerously irresponsible, Fascist wannabee.  Why did it have to come to this?

 

 

It came to this because too many Democrats didn't vote or if they did vote they voted for Jill Stein. 

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On 3/5/2020 at 8:32 PM, zkyllonen8 said:

 

See this is the Problem. 

 

The revolution is not over it is far from over. 

 

Why would I roll over and vote for someone like Biden that for the past 40 years has passed NAFTA, the crime bill, bankruptcy bill, etc. 

 

Joe Biden is suffering from some sort of Mental Deterioration, and this is very troublesome, he can barely hold together a sentence during a debate, rally or TV interview. 

 

HE will get eviscerated by Trump on the Debate Stage. 

 

Fair and Square Joe will not beat Trump. 

 

IT will be a repeat of 2016 if he is nominated, just this time he will be a even worse candidate than Hillary was....

If enough Democrats feel like you then we'll get another four years of trump. Won't that be nice?

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1 minute ago, calguy said:

It came to this because too many Democrats didn't vote or if they did vote they voted for Jill Stein. 

 

Yes.  And it came down to Democratic complacency based on flawed polling.   Too many on the left felt free to make protest votes because they though Hillary was a shoo-in.

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13 minutes ago, calguy said:

We'll let it play out. He has every right to stay in the race. I'm of the opinion that this isn't the time for a revolution. The house is on fire. When your house is on fire you're not thinking about remodeling the kitchen. You're focused on putting out the fire, cleaning up the mess, and repairing the damage. After that you can think about remodeling the kitchen.

 

Well said.

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19 minutes ago, calguy said:

It came to this because too many Democrats didn't vote or if they did vote they voted for Jill Stein. 

we won't make the same mistake twice! Not that I made that mistake, because I didn't. generally speaking I think the country, many, the majority in this country felt a punch in the gut when Trump got elected. When I say we, I mean us. I'm bothered big time that Warren went down. I still hold some hope for Bernie, but I also see many centrist are a very much afraid of how to pay for Bernie's policies. I'm not, but many folks are. The good thing here is the super majority wants Trump out yesterday. 

As always, I'd like to say thank you to CEPR, and one of its founders, Dean Baker for helping to set the record straight.

https://www.cepr.net/the-nyts-analysis-of-democratic-tax-plans-a-really-big-number-orgy/

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Bernie won the Democratic primaries in Michigan, Wisonsin, and Indiana in 2016.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

 

Then those states went for Trump after going blue for 20 years.

 

Win them as a Democrat and you're well on your way to beating Trump.

 

zkyll is exactly right.  The South is irrelevant.  They vote for abortion and angry sounding immigration and gun talk, and that's about it.  

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1 hour ago, splunch said:

Bernie won the Democratic primaries in Michigan, Wisonsin, and Indiana in 2016.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

 

Then those states went for Trump after going blue for 20 years.

 

Win them as a Democrat and you're well on your way to beating Trump.

 

zkyll is exactly right.  The South is irrelevant.  They vote for abortion and angry sounding immigration and gun talk, and that's about it.  

Michigan is a lock. Indiana I don't think we carry. Wisconsin is iffy. The last poll I saw showed trump in the lead there. Having Amy on the ticket could help a lot. Also, with the market meltdown and the virus news, trump's world is crumbling right before our eyes. A lot can change before November comes, but is I'm trump, I don't feel confident.

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On 3/7/2020 at 5:29 PM, calguy said:

We'll let it play out. He has every right to stay in the race. I'm of the opinion that this isn't the time for a revolution. The house is on fire. When your house is on fire you're not thinking about remodeling the kitchen. You're focused on putting out the fire, cleaning up the mess, and repairing the damage. After that you can think about remodeling the kitchen.

 Well said. I don't understand why these people who call themselves liberals can't seem to think in these terms. We are at war.

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14 hours ago, JeanMoulin said:

 Well said. I don't understand why these people who call themselves liberals can't seem to think in these terms. We are at war.

Meh.  History is chock full of way more examples of people not agreeing on what the best approach is to solving problems than agreeing.  In the end, the larger forces often seem to just drive things along far more than any theorizing or strategizing.  Hitler never happens without the enormous convoluted disaster of World War I, which doesn't happen without a world of hugely significant historical events, etc, etc.

 

Certainly people make a difference, and we can move the needle.  But right up until the house is truly on fire, and somebody has to actually get out of his chair and actually do something, the default condition for people is to bicker about what exactly is broken and who to blame and how to fix it. So this is all par for the course so far.  We are very far from being at war.

 

Furthermore, that is hardly a Liberal approach to any of this.  It's a radical rationalization for your chosen course of action, and I disagree with both.  I think we can fix our problems with a New New Deal approach.  We've done it before, when things were far worse than they are now.  When a quarter of the population was out of work and the entire mid-west was a desert.  Hopefully the roaring 20's won't lead us into quite so deep a hole this time around.  Probably safe to say there isn't another Dust Bowl on the horizon, though some sort of environmental catastrophe is always possible, and if it coincides with the unraveling of the fraud and debt-fueled shenanigans that have driven Wall Street to dizzying heights...

 

Biden is a stuffed suit who does the bidding of the same people who have led us down this primrose path.  I'm not impressed.  And if/when the sh!t actually hits the fan and we're faced with truly dire circumstances, it won't be Biden or any other company man who steps up to do what needs to be done.

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On 3/5/2020 at 7:17 PM, JeanMoulin said:

If so, you know now that the Sanders revolution is over. You need to pick a winner, and that winner is Joe Biden. If you want THE FAT PIG gone, you know what you have to do. I know some here are going to vote for someone in the peace and freedom party, or the green party. Just don't come back here and bitch when you hand this election to THE PIG. Vote for Biden and cleanse this nation. Restore decency.

 

I'm in total accord with this.  I originally supported Warren but switched to Sanders when it became obvious Warren was fading fast.  It now looks like Biden will be the chosen one.  Whatever his faults, he is about a thousand times better than Mein Trumpfk.

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3 hours ago, splunch said:

Biden is a stuffed suit who does the bidding of the same people who have led us down this primrose path.  I'm not impressed.  And if/when the sh!t actually hits the fan and we're faced with truly dire circumstances, it won't be Biden or any other company man who steps up to do what needs to be done.

 

Probably not.  But Biden would still be a vast improvement over Trump and his time in office would do infinitely less damage than four more years of Trump.  It might even serve as a buffer between the Trump administration and a new, Progressive era.

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5 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

Probably not.  But Biden would still be a vast improvement over Trump and his time in office would do infinitely less damage than four more years of Trump.  It might even serve as a buffer between the Trump administration and a new, Progressive era.

I think Joe is the perfect person to repair and restore our country after the damage done by trump. I'd like to see him serve one term, restore honor to the US, and then ride off into the sunset to live out his years with a well deserved feeling satisfaction and accomplishment. Bernie will also be gone in 4 years, and perhaps someone more likable will be able to pick up the progressive torch he began and move us forward in a better political climate than exists today. Right now is simply not the best time to be pushing for a major revolution. 

All My Opinion, of course.

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