Trump claims Pelosi ripping up SOTU speech was "illegal"

[drvoke]

 

 

 

I must have missed it when Trump became a Constitutional Lawyer. Shut up and sit down, Donald.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/illegal-for-pelosi-to-tear-up-state-of-the-union-speech-trump-claims/ar-BBZLvtK?ocid=spartandhp

(Full article at above link)

 

 

President Donald Trump said on Friday that is was "illegal" for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to tear up her copy of his State of the Union address, echoing an allegation other Republicans have made.

"Well, I thought it was a terrible thing when she ripped up the speech,” Trump told reporters as he left the White House for a trip to North Carolina. “First of all, it's an official document. You're not allowed, it's illegal what she did. She broke the law.”

“I thought it was terrible," Trump said. I thought it was very disrespectful to the chamber, to the country.”

President Trump repeated other Republicans' claims Pelosi violated the law. GOP Rep. Matt Gaetz announced on Twitter that he has filed an ethics complaint against Pelosi, accusing of “a potential violation of the law.” Gaetz refers to a U.S. code that makes it illegal for public officers to conceal or destroy records.

Notable legal scholar Jonathan Turley criticized the decision by Pelosi, but in a blog post, said that it was not in fact against the law.

MORE: Speaker Pelosi fires back at President Trump, says she prays 'very hard' for him

"This is a courtesy copy that is not filed or deposited with the House. Judging from the fact that I could not find evidence that these copies were archived with the House, I assume that past Speakers have kept the copies as personal property," Turley wrote. "While years ago I wrote an academic study of such records and criticized the view of presidential papers as personal property, a court would likely view this document as the personal property of Pelosi."

In a news conference Thursday, Pelosi explained why she tore up the address, saying that as she read through the speech, she saw the “compilation of falsehoods” and though of something that could indicate to Americans that the speech was “not the truth.”

Pelosi railed against the president’s use of guests at the State of the Union and what she called “misrepresentations” in his address.

“So it was, in my view, a manifesto of mistruths, falsehoods, blatantly really dangerous to the well-being of the American people if they believed what he said,” Speaker Pelosi said Thursday. “So again, we do not want chamber of the House of Representatives to be used as a backdrop for one of his reality shows with unreality in his presentation.”

 

 

[sole result]

1 minute ago, drvoke said:

 

 

 

I must have missed it when Trump became a Constitutional Lawyer. Shut up and sit down, Donald.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/illegal-for-pelosi-to-tear-up-state-of-the-union-speech-trump-claims/ar-BBZLvtK?ocid=spartandhp

(Full article at above link)

 

 

President Donald Trump said on Friday that is was "illegal" for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to tear up her copy of his State of the Union address, echoing an allegation other Republicans have made.

"Well, I thought it was a terrible thing when she ripped up the speech,” Trump told reporters as he left the White House for a trip to North Carolina. “First of all, it's an official document. You're not allowed, it's illegal what she did. She broke the law.”

“I thought it was terrible," Trump said. I thought it was very disrespectful to the chamber, to the country.”

President Trump repeated other Republicans' claims Pelosi violated the law. GOP Rep. Matt Gaetz announced on Twitter that he has filed an ethics complaint against Pelosi, accusing of “a potential violation of the law.” Gaetz refers to a U.S. code that makes it illegal for public officers to conceal or destroy records.

Notable legal scholar Jonathan Turley criticized the decision by Pelosi, but in a blog post, said that it was not in fact against the law.

MORE: Speaker Pelosi fires back at President Trump, says she prays 'very hard' for him

"This is a courtesy copy that is not filed or deposited with the House. Judging from the fact that I could not find evidence that these copies were archived with the House, I assume that past Speakers have kept the copies as personal property," Turley wrote. "While years ago I wrote an academic study of such records and criticized the view of presidential papers as personal property, a court would likely view this document as the personal property of Pelosi."

In a news conference Thursday, Pelosi explained why she tore up the address, saying that as she read through the speech, she saw the “compilation of falsehoods” and though of something that could indicate to Americans that the speech was “not the truth.”

Pelosi railed against the president’s use of guests at the State of the Union and what she called “misrepresentations” in his address.

“So it was, in my view, a manifesto of mistruths, falsehoods, blatantly really dangerous to the well-being of the American people if they believed what he said,” Speaker Pelosi said Thursday. “So again, we do not want chamber of the House of Representatives to be used as a backdrop for one of his reality shows with unreality in his presentation.”

 

 

Drop the soap opera theatrics. both Donald and Nancy are in on the hoax done to solidify the faithful divided by the semantics that never fails to twist brains to mind social narratives ancestrally positioned so far.

[drvoke]

4 minutes ago, sole result said:

Drop the soap opera theatrics. both Donald and Nancy are in on the hoax done to solidify the faithful divided by the semantics that never fails to twist brains to mind social narratives ancestrally positioned so far.

 

Government is mainly a show (circus). That is why Trump is so good at it.

 

[Old Mack]

13 minutes ago, drvoke said:

Trump told reporters as he left the White House for a trip to North Carolina. “First of all, it's an official document. You're not allowed, it's illegal what she did. She broke the law.”

“I thought it was terrible," Trump said. I thought it was very disrespectful to the chamber, to the country.”

 

drjoke...I just told you this story the other day; what are you runnin out of material ?

 

Anyhow...tearing up US GOV property has nothing to do with Constitution law.

 

And I'm wondering why you didn't mention the part that it was disrespectful to the country...which I think is the LARGER subject here.

 

drjoke it seems you are more worried about hanging Trump by the balls than helping homeless VETs, kids that go to school hungry, providing clean water or stoping the AIDS epidemic / opioid crisis.
 

[sole result]

13 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

Government is mainly a show (circus). That is why Trump is so good at it.

 

You one of the clowns diverting the audience's attention between acts on a 3 ring circus of politics, spiritualism and economics. after being traine dto mind vocabulary and avoid conversations about life doesn't exceed reproductive order to this ever changing population now?

 

Your behavior sure fits the narrative..

[benson13]

F Criminal trump

[1AC]

32 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

I must have missed it when Trump became a Constitutional Lawyer. Shut up and sit down, Donald.

 

A constitutional lawyer... What the hell are you talkin about? You don't have to be a lawyer to read the federal statute that she violated. And there is no constitutional question regarding this incident ... So why don't you sit down and shut up?

[drvoke]

20 minutes ago, Old Mack said:

 

drjoke...I just told you this story the other day; what are you runnin out of material ?

 

 

I don't see how you could have told me this story yesterday, when he said it today. (1st sentence in the OP). And MSN just posted it an hour ago.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Old Mack said:

 

And I'm wondering why you didn't mention the part that it was disrespectful to the country...which I think is the LARGER subject here.

 

 

I didn't feel disrespected. I felt amused.

 

22 minutes ago, Old Mack said:

 

drjoke it seems you are more worried about hanging Trump by the balls than helping homeless VETs, kids that go to school hungry, providing clean water or stoping the AIDS epidemic / opioid crisis.
 

 

I am concerned about all of those issues, but they are not the subject of this thread.

 

[drvoke]

9 minutes ago, sole result said:

You one of the clowns diverting the audience's attention between acts on a 3 ring circus of politics, spiritualism and economics. after being traine dto mind vocabulary and avoid conversations about life doesn't exceed reproductive order to this ever changing population now?

 

Your behavior sure fits the narrative..

 

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you.

[sole result]

3 minutes ago, drvoke said:

 

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you.

Never a doubt.

 

think about something, fool commands the fooled demanding the right to ignore self evident results and make up facts that support role playing conception to extinction of one's own species now only existing as reproductions change the population from now on.

[fishhead]

She should have rolled it up and shoved it

2 hours ago, NeoConvict said:

You didn't build that!!

 up trumps ass.

[BeAChooser]

1 hour ago, drvoke said:

Trump claims Pelosi ripping up SOTU speech was "illegal"

 

President Trump is correct.    Go read the law in question, drvoke.   Here's the relevant section ...

 

Quote

“Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”  

 

See the phrase "any paper, document, or other thing ... deposited ... with any public officer of the United States"?    

 

That describes the signed copy of Trump's SOTU address and what he did with it.

 

Pelosi is a "public officer of the United States".   Here's a source defining the term's legal meaning ...  

 

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Officer

 

Quote

 

An individual with the responsibility of performing the duties and functions of an office, that is a duty or charge, a position oftrust, or a right to exercise a public or private employment.

 

A public officer is ordinarily defined as an individual who has been elected or appointed to exercise the functions of an office for the benefit of the public. Executive officers, such as the president or state governors, are public officers charged with the duty to ascertain that the law is enforced and obeyed. A legislative officer, such as a member of Congress, has the duty of making the laws. A public officer whose duties include administering justice, adjudicating controversies, and interpreting the laws is called a judicial officer. A de jure officer is one who is legally appointed and qualified to exercise the office. A de facto officer is an individual who appears to be legally qualified and appointed to an office but is not due to some legal technicality, such as failure to file a financial disclosure statement within the time prescribed by statute.

 

A public office must be created either by statute or by constitutional provision. Public officers are distinguishable from employees in that they are required to take an oath of office and are appointed or elected to specified terms of office. The eligibility, duties, and compensation of public officers are defined by statute.

 

 

 

So as much as you, msn and Snopes don't like it, Pelosi is indeed subject to that law.

[benhur]

1 hour ago, benson13 said:

F Criminal trump

Again, tell what crime did he commit. 

Did he j-walk? 

Did he throw his gum on the sidewalk? 

Did he swear in church? 

Did he run guns to Mexico that killed American border patrol agents.

Did he let unauthorized people use his executive toilet? 

Did he use a diiferent name to communicate with killery clit on her unauthorized server? 

Did he not eat all his lunch?

Did he tell his mother he wasn't going to clean his room? 

Did he give ukraine 1.8 billion dollars and then find out it disappeared?   

Did he talk to ukraine and tell them to start investigating corruption including the 2016 election corruption?

Did he tell putin that he can now work with hiim closer, since the 2012 elections were over?

Did he catch a fish illegally?

 

What did he do that was so criminal?   Even your dem party had him clearly in their cross hairs and couldn't pin a crime on him, who cares about what you say.  Just pull your head out and go cry on your mommies lap for a while till you feel better?

[impartialobserver]

This is why I have such little respect for politicians and their loyal followers. Yeah...she ripped a set of papers in half.. If you want to diminish the significance of the action, you pay it no mind. Her behavior was childish and meant to draw attention. Seems as if it worked 

[BeAChooser]

3 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Yeah...she ripped a set of papers in half.. If you want to diminish the significance of the action, you pay it no mind. Her behavior was childish and meant to draw attention. Seems as if it worked 

 

^^^^ More hand waving to obfuscate the fact that she broke the law.

[RebelGator]

[BeAChooser]

1 minute ago, RebelGator said:

 

Come on, RG, don't sit on the fence on this issue.  The language of the law is very clear.

[Blue Devil]

2 hours ago, drvoke said:

 

 

 

I must have missed it when Trump became a Constitutional Lawyer. Shut up and sit down, Donald.

 

 

Federal Law, Copernicus...

 

On 2/6/2020 at 3:45 AM, NeoConvict said:

 

18 US Code, Section 2071(b):  "(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States."

 

 

At least they have an actual violated law, evidence, and proof.

 

 

 

Ha!

 

[drvoke]

3 hours ago, BeAChooser said:

 

President Trump is correct.    Go read the law in question, drvoke.   Here's the relevant section ...

 

 

See the phrase "any paper, document, or other thing ... deposited ... with any public officer of the United States"?    

 

That describes the signed copy of Trump's SOTU address and what he did with it.

 

Pelosi is a "public officer of the United States".   Here's a source defining the term's legal meaning ...  

 

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Officer

 

 

 

So as much as you, msn and Snopes don't like it, Pelosi is indeed subject to that law.

 

 

I'm sure Pelosi is really sweating this. NOT.  She accomplished what she wanted: to call him a liar in front of the entire world.

 

[Squatchman]

F trump.

He's an idiot.

[XavierOnassis]

1 hour ago, Squatchman said:

F trump.

He's an idiot.

Trump excels at one thing: rabble rousing. He does know how to rouse the rabble, as we can see from the abundant numbers of rightwing trolls that come here precisely to show us their obscene arousal. Some are inspired by racism, some by Fox and AM radio talkshow rantsters, nearly all by greed.

 

Trump is ignorant, and aggressively so: he refuses to recognize the truth even when it is obvious to nearly everyone. He knew that Obmana was not born abroad; he knew that Obama was not a Muslim. He knows that Golbal Climate Change is occurring. But he also knows that the really bad effects of Global Climate Change will occur long after he is deceased, and he knows that Saudi money and all Big Oil money is accessible to him NOW, just as the Saudi tyrants and the Big Oil execs are mostly concerned at pumping their oil for maximum profit and benefit to them NOW.

 

Trump is an idiot in the sense that his reasoning power is mostly limited to determining what benefits his fame and fortune. He does not CARE about morality; he does not CARE about the truth. He does not CARE about reality.  He is a political version of the XIX Century showman P.T. Barnum.

 

He excels at only one thing: campaigning. Just as Ronald Reagan excelled at only one thing: acting in the starring role as the President Ronald Reagan.

[Squatchman]

1 hour ago, XavierOnassis said:

Trump excels at one thing: rabble rousing. He does know how to rouse the rabble, as we can see from the abundant numbers of rightwing trolls that come here precisely to show us their obscene arousal. Some are inspired by racism, some by Fox and AM radio talkshow rantsters, nearly all by greed.

 

Trump is ignorant, and aggressively so: he refuses to recognize the truth even when it is obvious to nearly everyone. He knew that Obmana was not born abroad; he knew that Obama was not a Muslim. He knows that Golbal Climate Change is occurring. But he also knows that the really bad effects of Global Climate Change will occur long after he is deceased, and he knows that Saudi money and all Big Oil money is accessible to him NOW, just as the Saudi tyrants and the Big Oil execs are mostly concerned at pumping their oil for maximum profit and benefit to them NOW.

 

Trump is an idiot in the sense that his reasoning power is mostly limited to determining what benefits his fame and fortune. He does not CARE about morality; he does not CARE about the truth. He does not CARE about reality.  He is a political version of the XIX Century showman P.T. Barnum.

 

He excels at only one thing: campaigning. Just as Ronald Reagan excelled at only one thing: acting in the starring role as the President Ronald Reagan.

+ 100

[Blue Devil]

13 hours ago, drvoke said:

 

 

I'm sure Pelosi is really sweating this. NOT.  She accomplished what she wanted: to call him a liar in front of the entire world.

 

 

She Broke the Law.

 

On 2/6/2020 at 3:45 AM, NeoConvict said:

 

18 US Code, Section 2071(b):  "(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States."

 

 

At least they have an actual violated law, evidence, and proof.

 

 

 

Ha!

[Blue Devil]

 

18 US Code, Section 2071(b):  "(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same,

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both;

and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.

As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States."

 

Bu-Bye, Nanny!

 

Ha!

[Squatchman]

   Too bad nothing is going to ever happen to Nancy no matter how much spam the spam master posts.

 Blew the devil has the funniest spam around.