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slideman

the senators know Trump is guilty

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3 hours ago, DeepBreath said:

^^^^Making excuses for the house failure. Why were they in such a rush and didn't to their job? 

As stated 4x’s before... I, personally, would have gone to court.  The house didn’t bcus they knew it would incite trump and the huns around the election period.

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And NO, it's not the senate's job to present evidence. It's the senates job to HEAR the evidence.

No, LD, it is in the bylaws evidences must be presented.  Mitch is playing w/ the rules to submit evidences post trial.

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If the democrats wanted to challenge Trump's executive privilege like the republicans challenged Obama's? Its through the courts system. Not through attempting to bully the senate into doing their job for them. 

That’s not *OUR* conversation.  For you and I are not in the impeachment business.

 

We (at least I do) understand what rights that are afforded a potus.  We are discussing trumps vow to suppress the evidence from Americans.

 

The question is not does trump have these rights... the question is, why is he doing it?
Why is he doing what no potus has done before?  
 

Replace trump w/ a democrat.  Leave the “go through the courts” bit aside... should, for the purpose of transparency, a potus suppress evidence of their own trial?

 

As an independent arbiter, are you the least bit interested in reading the docs, hearing the testimonies of those who have been blocked?  
 

Even as a trump support... aren’t you the least bit curious?

 

Or do you think he simply EP’d a bunch of blank docs and silenced a bunch of no-nothing witnesses?

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3 hours ago, jrock2310 said:

As stated 4x’s before... I, personally, would have gone to court.  The house didn’t bcus they knew it would incite trump and the huns around the election period.

No, LD, it is in the bylaws evidences must be presented.  Mitch is playing w/ the rules to submit evidences post trial.

That’s not *OUR* conversation.  For you and I are not in the impeachment business.

 

We (at least I do) understand what rights that are afforded a potus.  We are discussing trumps vow to suppress the evidence from Americans.

 

The question is not does trump have these rights... the question is, why is he doing it?
Why is he doing what no potus has done before?  
 

Replace trump w/ a democrat.  Leave the “go through the courts” bit aside... should, for the purpose of transparency, a potus suppress evidence of their own trial?

 

As an independent arbiter, are you the least bit interested in reading the docs, hearing the testimonies of those who have been blocked?  
 

Even as a trump support... aren’t you the least bit curious?

 

Or do you think he simply EP’d a bunch of blank docs and silenced a bunch of no-nothing witnesses?

Evidence from the house. The houses sole purpose is to impeach. The house gathers the evidence and puts forth the case. 
 

The senate hears the case. They don’t have to call any witnesses, dummy. They are under zero obligation to hear witnesses or introduce new evidence. 
 

And no. Presidents have executive privilege for a reason. Almost all presidents have used it from time to time including Eric Holder being held in  criminal contempt for withholding fast and furious evidence. That evidence would have very likely resulted in impeachment and at the same time it’s the president has the right to assert executive privilege whenever they see fit.


The proper place to settle the dispute is through the court. The house abandoning their case and expecting the senate to take Trump to court for what THEY abandoned???? No. 

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1 minute ago, DeepBreath said:

Presidents have executive privilege for a reason.

 

that's a made up privilege. Only if the President can give reasons for specific information being a national security risk can it be privileged. 

 

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4 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

that's a made up privilege. Only if the President can give reasons for specific information being a national security risk can it be privileged. 

 

Yes? Where do they do that? The court system, dummy. The court system the democrats abandoned their case because they said they had overwhelming evidence?????

 

Why would I care to hear evidence the house democrats said they didn’t need? 

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1 minute ago, DeepBreath said:

Yes? Where do they do that? The court system, dummy. The court system the democrats abandoned their case because they said they had overwhelming evidence?????

 

Why would I care to hear evidence the house democrats said they didn’t need? 

 

You and McConnell are Trump servants.

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13 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

You and McConnell are Trump servants.

Why would the senate take Trump to court to fight executive privilege AFTER the house abandoned their case in the courts? 😂

 

Stupid much? 

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:29 PM, slideman said:

They know damn well he is guilty. We will see who has a spine and who respects their oath.

 

How many of them is this cover up protecting ........

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Republican Mueller did the hard work! 7 Articles of Impeachment

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/06/03/here-are-seven-reasons-trump-should-be-impeached/


Case For Trump Impeachment Goes Beyond Ukraine

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/case-for-trump-impeachment-goes-beyond-ukraine.html


A president of the USA practicing Extortion which is a criminal offense should be prosecuted accordingly.

president of the USA requesting assistance from a foreign government that could impact an election is against the law. Threatening to withhold tax dollar subsidies if the foreign government refused is extortion which is a criminal offense which should be prosecuted accordingly. Impeachment is the easy way out for Rump.

 

Could be some conspiracy charges coming out of this as well and of course a certain amount of perjury.

 

BY ALL MEANS INVESTIGATE PERRY,  Rudolph W. Giuliani, BOLTON, MULVANEY, BARR/POMPEO/ TRUMP/KAVANAUGH/McConnell! NOW!

 

Blame the entire GOP for allowing Trump to be a dictator aka a party that will not stand up for Americans, the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. The party with no spine.

 

Blame the other criminals for NOT saying NO I will not violate the law,

 

The GOP has become mentally unstable documented by many of their presidents = the party is sick!

 

YOUR questions answered on the Trump Impeachment Process
http://www.pfaw.org/blog-posts/your-questions-on-the-trump-impeachment-process-answered/?source=hp?utm_medium=email&utm_source=nl&utm_campaign=september2019

 

Case For Trump Impeachment Goes Beyond Ukraine

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/case-for-trump-impeachment-goes-beyond-ukraine.html

 

A president of the USA practicing Extortion which is a criminal offense should be prosecuted accordingly.

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12 hours ago, DeepBreath said:

Evidence from the house. The houses sole purpose is to impeach. The house gathers the evidence and puts forth the case. 

They’ve already proved their case.  Trump did these things.  That is settled.  What the house is asking for is *MORE* evidence to further support their case.  The fact that the senate will acquit trump is secondary to the fact that he committed these acts.  
 

This is OJ part 2.

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The senate hears the case. They don’t have to call any witnesses, dummy. They are under zero obligation to hear witnesses or introduce new evidence.

The senate doesn’t have to if they don’t have evidence or don’t want to call evidence.  But they must allow the house to submit.  Ergo - why mitch is playing w/ the post-trial ruling.

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 And no. Presidents have executive privilege for a reason. Almost all presidents have used it from time to time including Eric Holder being held in  criminal contempt for withholding fast and furious evidence.

1) Eric holder was not president.  
 

2) Obama EP’d to protect names & sources from leaking for the purposes of protection.

 

3) Trump *IS* the potus suppressing evidence, he himself says they have.  Ergo- trump knows its damning to him.  Otherwise, what’s the point?

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That evidence would have very likely resulted in impeachment and at the same time it’s the president has the right to assert executive privilege whenever they see fit.

No one is arguing what the rights of a potus are.  I am asking do you think trump is suppressing evidence bcus its a nothing burger?

 

You are avoiding answering this like the plague bcus you know there is no logical explanation.   If there was an inkling of evidence available that could even be skewed, he’d be all over twitter w/ it.  Kinda like how he tried to manipulate the transcript to suggest that if he released it, its somehow absolves him. 

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The proper place to settle the dispute is through the court.

Yes, see point one which we’ve discussed a thousand times already.

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The house abandoning their case and expecting the senate to take Trump to court for what THEY abandoned???? No. 

The case is made.  The evidence being requested now are building blocks to an already steady foundation.  But since the senate is steadfast in the pre-trial biases... they don’t want MORE evidence to appear in front of the American people.  And its not bcus its flattering to the potus, its bcus we already know it to be damning.  Bcus it concurs w/ what we already know and have confirmed through previous evidences and witnesses.

 

You and I are talking as individuals on a message board.  We are not trial lawyers defending clients.  
 

Are you or are you not interested in seeing the blocked evidence?  Are you okay living oblivious to what is out there? 

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On 1/19/2020 at 12:29 PM, slideman said:

They know damn well he is guilty. We will see who has a spine and who respects their oath.

Some senators may have had some thoughts that way, but the dems stupid case is making sure none of them will vote for removal.  In fact some dems may vote for acquital.  So stop your stupid "he is quilty" ploy.   

 

Besides what is he guilty of?  The dems could not come up with anything to attach to the articles of impeachment, so if they can't, why are you spewing your lie?  Follow your leaders.

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 2:36 PM, RebelGator said:

I believe the only people that think he's guilty are leftist butt-pluggers....you know, like yourself.

 

The only people who think he is innocent are those that are ignorant of this subject.

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27 minutes ago, jrock2310 said:

They’ve already proved their case.  Trump did these things.  That is settled.  What the house is asking for is *MORE* evidence to further support their case.  The fact that the senate will acquit trump is secondary to the fact that he committed these acts.  

Agree. Trump is guilty as charged but he did nothing in violation of law or abuse of office. Attacking Bidens exposed nuts wouldn't have been an option if he and his son weren't teabagging Ukraine. The way Democrats jumped on this tells me there is something to the allegations of impropriety between the Bidens and Burisma. 

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12 hours ago, leftwinger said:

 

that's a made up privilege. Only if the President can give reasons for specific information being a national security risk can it be privileged. 

 

And it is NEVER privileged when part of a criminal coverup!  

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26 minutes ago, benhur said:

Some senators may have had some thoughts that way, but the dems stupid case is making sure none of them will vote for removal.  In fact some dems may vote for acquital.  So stop your stupid "he is quilty" ploy.   

 

Besides what is he guilty of?  The dems could not come up with anything to attach to the articles of impeachment, so if they can't, why are you spewing your lie?  Follow your leaders.

 

Bribery and wire fraud.

Now, tell us how he is innocent.

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Just now, Scout said:

 

Bribery and wire fraud.

Now, tell us how he is innocent.

He didn't bribe anyone, or who did he bribe?

 

He did not commit wire fraud, or tell me about that, I have not heard his monstrous wire fraud caper.

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7 minutes ago, Scout said:

 

Bribery and wire fraud.

Now, tell us how he is innocent.

Also remember: 

1) Trump did not run guns to the mexican warlords?

2) Trump did not kill people with hundreds of drone air strikes, even a good American citizen?

3) Trump did not send our enemy billions of dollars on pallets of cash to admittedly used for terrorist purposes?

4) Trump did not stand down the help that could have saved American lives in Benghazi?

5) Trump did not tell putin's right hand man that he could cooperate with putin now that the 2012 election was over?  Oh he did get caught on an open mic?

6) Trump did not allow russia to take by force 1/3 of the ukraine?  Where were the obama career diplomats and mr. vindman then?

7) Trump did not send blankets to the ukraine while they were asking for arms to stop further russian invasions?

 

I think you get my point.  Many of these despicable acts were done with a republican house majority.  Why did the republicans not impeach obama.

 

But let Trump make a call and ask ukraine for a favor to help him uncover corruption by the bidens, and all hell breaks loose, and oh, what a monster.  See what I mean?

 

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17 minutes ago, benhur said:

He didn't bribe anyone, or who did he bribe?

 

He did not commit wire fraud, or tell me about that, I have not heard his monstrous wire fraud caper.

 

He did both. 

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14 minutes ago, benhur said:

Also remember: 

1) Trump did not run guns to the mexican warlords?

2) Trump did not kill people with hundreds of drone air strikes, even a good American citizen?

3) Trump did not send our enemy billions of dollars on pallets of cash to admittedly used for terrorist purposes?

4) Trump did not stand down the help that could have saved American lives in Benghazi?

5) Trump did not tell putin's right hand man that he could cooperate with putin now that the 2012 election was over?  Oh he did get caught on an open mic?

6) Trump did not allow russia to take by force 1/3 of the ukraine?  Where were the obama career diplomats and mr. vindman then?

7) Trump did not send blankets to the ukraine while they were asking for arms to stop further russian invasions?

 

I think you get my point.  Many of these despicable acts were done with a republican house majority.  Why did the republicans not impeach obama.

 

But let Trump make a call and ask ukraine for a favor to help him uncover corruption by the bidens, and all hell breaks loose, and oh, what a monster.  See what I mean?

 

 

No.  None of those things are illegal. 

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3 hours ago, NeoConvict said:

Agree. Trump is guilty as charged but he did nothing in violation of law or abuse of office. Attacking Bidens exposed nuts wouldn't have been an option if he and his son weren't teabagging Ukraine. The way Democrats jumped on this tells me there is something to the allegations of impropriety between the Bidens and Burisma. 

Biden has nothing to do w/ it.  His charge is withholding funds to extract a fake announcement over an investigation into a political opponent.

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36 minutes ago, jrock2310 said:

Biden has nothing to do w/ it. 

 

CopOut, you once again prove to be a LIAR.

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3 hours ago, benhur said:

Also remember: 

1) Trump did not run guns to the mexican warlords?

Neither did Obama.  It was a sting operation w/ a couple of unfortunate casualties.  Congress knew about the operation. 

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2) Trump did not kill people with hundreds of drone air strikes, even a good American citizen?

Opps...

 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
 

 

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3) Trump did not send our enemy billions of dollars on pallets of cash to admittedly used for terrorist purposes?

That money that previously belonged to Iran, paid for the Iran Nuclear deal.  
 

Obama was paying for it w/ Irans money.

 

The nuclear deal that was working according to the oversight IAEA.

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4) Trump did not stand down the help that could have saved American lives in Benghazi?

While hillary was in the state dept... she requested and was rejected 8x’s for additional support in benghazi.
 

I’ll give you a couple guesses as to which governing party rejected her appeals...

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5) Trump did not tell putin's right hand man that he could cooperate with putin now that the 2012 election was over?  Oh he did get caught on an open mic?

Trump took the word of putin over his own Us intel....

 

Obama’s mic catch was in relation to cleaning up bushes mess w/  “Project Hammer” ... an issue which was clarified later in the press.

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6) Trump did not allow russia to take by force 1/3 of the ukraine?  Where were the obama career diplomats and mr. vindman then?

Obama didn’t allow it either.  Obama is the President of the United States.  
 

However, this is actually one of my criticisms of Obama.  That said, his options were to basically have US invade, getting us into an expensive, deadly dispute.  Or... inquire neighboring allies to interject on behalf of the US.  But that would be perceived as asking other allies nations to handle a conflict the US isn’t willing to engage in.  Or... sanctions... which is what ultimately happened.  
 

I thought there was a happy medium somewhere b/t military or weapons aid & sanctions.

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7) Trump did not send blankets to the ukraine while they were asking for arms to stop further russian invasions?

Same as 6.

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I think you get my point.  Many of these despicable acts were done with a republican house majority.  Why did the republicans not impeach obama.

Bcus diplomacy is not impeachable.  Bcus most of these instances did not go down as you perceived.  You believed a contrived narrative, as you stated, even (house) republicans knew wasn’t true.

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But let Trump make a call and ask ukraine for a favor to help him uncover corruption by the bidens, and all hell breaks loose, and oh, what a monster.  See what I mean?

 

Another instance in which you think a man who’s bankrolled 4-6 times, ran defrauded charities, reneged on vendors, conned people out of millions w/ a phony university ... was seriously seeking corruption on a political rival.  In which no evidence has emerged.  In fact, multiple witnesses account that trump merely wanted an announcement of an investigation.  Meaning he just wanted the headline, didn’t actually care about corruption.

 

But hey... you do you bro.

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12 minutes ago, BeAChooser said:

 

CopOut, you once again prove to be a LIAR.

Hey!   Its BAC again!!  They let you out of your padded room today I see...

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51 minutes ago, jrock2310 said:

Biden has nothing to do w/ it.  His charge is withholding funds to extract a fake announcement over an investigation into a political opponent.

Biden has everything to do with it. He didn't ask for dirt. He didn't ask for a personal political favor. He asked for a corruption investigation into the second most powerful man in the world at the time.

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5 minutes ago, NeoConvict said:

Biden has everything to do with it. He didn't ask for dirt. He didn't ask for a personal political favor. He asked for a corruption investigation into the second most powerful man in the world at the time.

No, he didn’t.  “Do us a favor though” ... (90 mins after the call) ... Ukraine funding was frozen. 
 

Later, multiple witnesses would attest that trump didn’t even want an investigation, but rather an announcement of one.  Something to get the trump troglodytes riled up about and ready to spread all over message boards just like ours here.

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7 minutes ago, jrock2310 said:

No, he didn’t.  “Do us a favor though” ... (90 mins after the call) ... Ukraine funding was frozen. 
 

Later, multiple witnesses would attest that trump didn’t even want an investigation, but rather an announcement of one.  Something to get the trump troglodytes riled up about and ready to spread all over message boards just like ours here.

Pressure was applied. Funds were illegally withheld. Hardball. Funds were released, impoundment act has no criminal penalties associated with it. Trump didn't make the laws but he is using them ruthlessly. 

 

The notion that he didn't want a real investigation into Burisma and the Bidens is nonsensical. It would have changed the media narrative for a day at best. No, he wanted Bidens head on a pile, an announcement of an investigation wouldn't have accomplished that. This impeachment however has brought the issue to more light than even a guilty finding in Ukraine would have. Who knows? Maybe the Bidens were innocent? Guess we will find out in time but this impeachment has brought the matter into every politically interested Americans living room and we haven't even heard from the defense yet.

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