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Russia calls Trump their agent

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10 hours ago, laripu said:

It's surprising that Russia is so open about this. I guess they think it's all in the bag.

 

Daily Beast reports:


Thank you for this link. I hope you don’t mind that I created a thread in NHB about it. 

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1 hour ago, Olivaw said:

Thank you for this link. I hope you don’t mind that I created a thread in NHB about it. 

 

I don't go there. You won't change anyone's mind. But I don't own that link and definitely don't mind that you use it ... do anything you like with it.

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More from the article:

 

Mikhail Gusman, first deputy director general of ITAR-TASS:

Quote

I have an even more unpleasant forecast for Trump. After the White House, he will face a very unhappy period.

 

The host, Vladimir Soloviev (referring to Viktor Yanukovych, disgraced and self-exiled former president of Ukraine), smugly asked:

Quote

Should we get another apartment in Rostov ready?

 

My prediction, if Trump ever flees, remains Montenegro. The Montenegrin language is similar to Melania's Slovenian, and she can easily communicate in it. The weather on the Adriatic coast is lovely, and the country could use some hotel and golf course development. Crucially, Montenegro has no extradition treaty with the United States.

 

The only way Trump's actions make sense is it he's systematically trying to destroy American wealth, power and influence in the world.

 

Another prediction: since he needs the economy to remain good in order to win re-election, if he's elected again he will be tasked by Russia with destroying US leadership in science and technology, and therefore the US economy. The military will also be hindered. Expect a series of executive orders that make it harder to get a university education, and harder for the military to buy technology, and harder for US companies to sell military technology. Since that's a big money earner and hirer, there will be layoffs.

 

In line with his normal xenophobia, it may be something like forcing high tech companies to only hire US-born engineers if they sell military goods to the United States.

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This portrayal of Trump, as a Russian agent, is essentially correct.  But those in the US, who are devotees of Fox News and talk radio are getting a different story.  They are being told that it was not Russia which interfered on Trump's behalf, in the 2016 elections but Ukraine !   Presumably half the US population has been convinced of it.  So the implication is;  Now that Trump has Zelensky in his pocket, there's no more threat of interference.  

 

Putin not only has the full power and privilege of the president of the United States behind him, but also the entire Republican Disinformation Machine. Russia has taken the first steps toward discrediting Democracy and turning the US into a puppet state without a shot being fired.  I expect a repeat of Russian interference in the 2020, except far more massive than last time.  If Trump gets another four years, it could be a regressive turning point in world history. 

 

What is especially ominous is unanimous congressional fealty to Trump by Republican lawmakers.  So far, they have  put party before country and Russian before the United States of America.

 

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16 hours ago, bludog said:

What is especially ominous is unanimous congressional fealty to Trump by Republican lawmakers.  So far, they have  put party before country and Russian before the United States of America.

 

Ominous, but perhaps not surprising.

 

The Republicans seem to be steeped in crime. Here's a quote from a reliably liberal web-site called ElectoralVote.  I took it from here.

 

As a reminder, Gates is the 8th person associated with the Trump campaign/Trump administration to be sentenced for crimes related to their work on behalf of Trump (soon, Michael Flynn will make it nine). By way of comparison, 15 members of the Nixon administration were sentenced, as were 9 members of the Bush Jr. administration, and 8 members of the Reagan administration. The grand total for all three Democrats to serve since 1968 is...one (Darleen A. Druyun, the United States Under Secretary of the Air Force for Bill Clinton).

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4 hours ago, laripu said:

Ominous, but perhaps not surprising.

 

The Republicans seem to be steeped in crime. Here's a quote from a reliably liberal web-site called ElectoralVote.  I took it from here.

 

Yes.  Among other vile things, the Republicans have become the party of corruption, lawlessness and unprincipled opportunism.  And the people's choice of a totally shameless robber-baron as head of state is a culmination of that trend.   Congressional Republicans' obsequious obedience to their Mafia-inspired boss confirms their own criminal leanings.  And in fealty to the Top Sociopath, they are willing to set the unconstitutional precedent of abrogating the power of Congress to the Executive Branch;  Thus upsetting constitutional checks and balances, possibly for a long time to come.

 

And Second in Sociopathy,  The Senate Majority Leader, in defiance of the Constitution, now openly plans to hold a sham impeachment trial in the Senate.  He openly crows his close coordination with the White House to turn the supposed trial into a celebration of the Top Thug.

 

Congressional Democrats have been accused, often with some merit, of lacking backbone.   But during these impeachment proceedings, they have acquitted themselves with courage and dignity.  Unlike most Republicans, they are determined to do the right thing whether it proves politically advantageous or not.

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On 12/16/2019 at 6:01 PM, laripu said:

It's surprising that Russia is so open about this. I guess they think it's all in the bag.

 

Daily Beast reports:

I believe this is intended for the Ukraine. To demoralize them

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On 12/17/2019 at 6:50 PM, bludog said:

 

 

What is especially ominous is unanimous congressional fealty to Trump by Republican lawmakers.  So far, they have  put party before country and Russian before the United States of America.

 

Like cult behavior

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5 minutes ago, Zaro said:

I believe this is intended for the Ukraine. To demoralize them

 

At least in part, you're right.

But they must also have been aware that we'd hear about it here.

 

My thought is that they don't really care who hears about it because they think they've won something already, just by getting Trump elected and doing their bidding. Any more is froth on the cappuccino. Icing on the cake. Smetana on the borscht. (Russians get that.) Cream on the turntable. (Eric Clapton fans older than 60 know what I mean.)

 

🙂

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2 minutes ago, laripu said:

 

At least in part, you're right.

But they must also have been aware that we'd hear about it here.

 

My thought is that they don't really care who hears about it because they think they've won something already, just by getting Trump elected and doing their bidding. Any more is froth on the cappuccino. Icing on the cake. Smetana on the borscht. (Russians get that.) Cream on the turntable. (Eric Clapton fans older than 60 know what I mean.)

 

🙂

Of course. They rub it in. They know the cult doesn't care. Unless some bombshell explodes between now and Nov 2020, he will be reelected

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4 hours ago, Zaro said:

Of course. They rub it in. They know the cult doesn't care. Unless some bombshell explodes between now and Nov 2020, he will be reelected

 

My feeling as well.  Putin will make sure of it.  Unless he can't and Trump's sure-thing backfires, in any number of ways,  before November 2020. 

 

But if Putin succeeds in re-installing Trump, what will his meaningful gains be?  He will have weakened America, but probably not militarily, which for Putin, is the bottom line.  Congress, even on the Republican side, will probably not permit the weakening of our war machine.  In addition, Trump has proposed a United States Space Force to:

  1. "Protect the interests of the United States in space"
  2. "Deter aggression in, from, and to space"
  3. "Conduct space operations"

Whether Congress will fund this aggressive project remains to be seen.  But it is conspicuously antithetical to Trump's appearance of being a Russian puppet. Trump's seeming devotion to Putin might not be any more sincere than in many other of his professed loyalties to assorted individuals or nations.

 

I hope we never find out compliments of his defeat in 2020.

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5 hours ago, bludog said:

Trump's seeming devotion to Putin might not be any more sincere than in many other of his professed loyalties to assorted individuals or nations.

 

Of course. His devotion to Putin comes from Putin having something on him. If not actually evidence of urolagnia, then at least regular prostitute stuff.

 

Which means that Trump has at least thought of getting rid of his "Putin blackmail problem" by nuking Moscow. And Putin, knowing that, had video made showing a brand new ICBM type that couldn't be intercepted. (But may not be real.) And then there was the lightly publicized nuclear-powered missile accident at Nyonoska, to "prove" ongoing development.

 

My feeling is that the missile development and accident were real, but that it may not be as far along as the video suggest. I think the video was made that way for Trump's consideration.

 

Here's the video. Note that at around 44 seconds, the multiple warheads are honing in to Florida ... implying Maralago.

 

 

So that's what the Space Force is for. Geopolitical "mine's bigger than your's".

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5 hours ago, bludog said:

He will have weakened America, but probably not militarily, which for Putin, is the bottom line.

 

I don't think that's the bottom line. US-Russia war is still mutually assured destruction.

 

I think Putin's goal is to reduce American wealth, power, and influence in the world, allowing Russia to fill the void the US would leave. In particular, allowing Russia to sell more weapons systems, as for example they did to Turkey.

 

For Russia, the best possible outcome, very unlikely, would be for the US to break up into smaller countries as the USSR did. That was an option pushed by a highly placed Russian political scientist named Igor Panarin.

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3 hours ago, laripu said:

I think Putin's goal is to reduce American wealth, power, and influence in the world, allowing Russia to fill the void the US would leave. In particular, allowing Russia to sell more weapons systems, as for example they did to Turkey.

 

For Russia, the best possible outcome, very unlikely, would be for the US to break up into smaller countries as the USSR did. That was an option pushed by a highly placed Russian political scientist named Igor Panarin.

 

Excellent analysis.  Makes perfect sense.

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A pariah, someone who enforces in spirit and action, oligarchy, and then portends - I utilize portend, as a pretension here, regarding the word Nationalism, filled with bigotry, and separation of the masses, in which to goad by use of misinformation, somethings that a rational mind can never trust.

 

The expedient political goal to rule even though the demographics suggest otherwise. But what if, if there were a lot of what if's. What if we were all exactly the same, what then?

What if we were all white, or all brown, wouldn't we all still be human beings somehow?

 

The basic consistency of lies, the basics of propaganda when so many have to struggle and are kept down, well it's a system, it's not all written in the DNA, there's something in the environment, something that seems so innocuous that pervades the thinnest of air that could never be fully described until one day the bottom drops out.

 

Tell that to a youth who never had a chance to learn. Tell that to people who have no decent healthcare. Tell this to people who grow up never having a mentor, nobody to show them right from wrong, nobody to show them how to fix a leaking faucet, or anything about mathematics. 

 

We are just people. Plain and ordinary folk. 

Peace!

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13 hours ago, TheOldBarn said:

Tell that to a youth who never had a chance to learn. Tell that to people who have no decent healthcare. Tell this to people who grow up never having a mentor, nobody to show them right from wrong, nobody to show them how to fix a leaking faucet, or anything about mathematics. 

 

Sadly, very sadly, many of those are Trump supporters, against their own interests.

 

By the way ... no one ever showed me how to fix a leaking faucet. I still don't know, at 63.

 

That, despite the fact today my father advised my cousin to become a plumber. My cousin did. He invested all his money in real estate in Vancouver, BC, which experienced a huge upturn due to Hong Hong immigration in the late 90s. He became a multi-multi-millionaire. The last time I saw him, he reminded me of that good advice.

 

Maybe one day I'll learn to fix a leaking faucet. It's on my list.

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On 12/19/2019 at 1:00 AM, bludog said:

 

My feeling as well.  Putin will make sure of it.  Unless he can't and Trump's sure-thing backfires, in any number of ways,  before November 2020. 

 

But if Putin succeeds in re-installing Trump, what will his meaningful gains be?  He will have weakened America, but probably not militarily, which for Putin, is the bottom line.  Congress, even on the Republican side, will probably not permit the weakening of our war machine.  In addition, Trump has proposed a United States Space Force to:

  1. "Protect the interests of the United States in space"
  2. "Deter aggression in, from, and to space"
  3. "Conduct space operations"

Whether Congress will fund this aggressive project remains to be seen.  But it is conspicuously antithetical to Trump's appearance of being a Russian puppet. Trump's seeming devotion to Putin might not be any more sincere than in many other of his professed loyalties to assorted individuals or nations.

 

I hope we never find out compliments of his defeat in 2020.

 

I think that Trump is the so called useful idiot to Putin. IMO, Putin never choked the breakup of the Soviet Union down and wants to see the same thing happening to us. Maybe he blames Reagan/the arms race during the cold war instead of structural flaws in their system. At any rate, seeing Trump gushing over that Russian lizard is very disturbing

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3 hours ago, Zaro said:

I think that Trump is the so called useful idiot to Putin. IMO, Putin never choked the breakup of the Soviet Union down and wants to see the same thing happening to us. Maybe he blames Reagan/the arms race during the cold war instead of structural flaws in their system. At any rate, seeing Trump gushing over that Russian lizard is very disturbing

 

You're probably right that Putin was unhappy about the breakup of the Soviet Union. I'd bet on that.

 

Consider one other possibility: it's possible that Gorbachev was working for the United States, exploiting whatever flaws there were. I wouldn't bet on that, but the idea may have crossed Putin's mind. Then Donny Dumbf✓¢k is just proportional payback.

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