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The GOP Strategy To Keep Power Without Majority Support

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Robert Reich is one of democracy's most valuable resources today.  Here is warns of GOP plans for massive gerrymandering and democratic voter suppression as demographics increasingly deny them the popular vote.

 

 

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They also refuse to vote on campaign finance reform that House Democrats pass earlier this year. Which would require "dark money" political groups to make their donors public. But of course they label it as a power grad and overreach of the federal government. Yeah okay you just don't want your donors to be public god these people only care about the money.  

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Excellent point zkyllonen

 

Reich discusses it in several videos.  Here is one of them:

 

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The representatives should represent the people at all times not the highest bidder!! 

 

They take an oath of office to defend the Constitution that is why people on both sides need to stop taking money, politicians are turning into the people the founding fathers swore to defend us against. 

 

We need to take action now before it is too late. 

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Republicans figured out the game and played it well. They won state houses and drew advantageous congressional districts. That gave them a structural advantage in federal elections and allowed them to win federally with a minority. 


Democrats need to play tough politics too. Win the States and rig the game I’m their own favor.  Republicans will come around to districts drawn by independent commissions soon enough.
 

if Democrats win the Senate but not the presidency, they need to refuse an up down vote to any Trump Supreme Court nominees. 
 

If they win both the senate and the presidency, increase the size of the Court and restore balance. Nine is not constitutionally mandated There is nothing magic about it.

 

And keep and eye on Kavanaugh. One mis-step by that partisan hack and impeach his arse. 
 

Time to stop being pansies and hit back at Republican bullies. No need to do anything illegal, just play the game using the rules in place, 

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On 12/8/2019 at 7:33 PM, Olivaw said:

Republicans figured out the game and played it well. They won state houses and drew advantageous congressional districts. That gave them a structural advantage in federal elections and allowed them to win federally with a minority. 


Democrats need to play tough politics too. Win the States and rig the game I’m their own favor.  Republicans will come around to districts drawn by independent commissions soon enough.
 

if Democrats win the Senate but not the presidency, they need to refuse an up down vote to any Trump Supreme Court nominees. 
 

If they win both the senate and the presidency, increase the size of the Court and restore balance. Nine is not constitutionally mandated There is nothing magic about it.

 

And keep and eye on Kavanaugh. One mis-step by that partisan hack and impeach his arse. 
 

Time to stop being pansies and hit back at Republican bullies. No need to do anything illegal, just play the game using the rules in place, 

Your probably asking for a lot if you expect Democrats to take Republicans to task. It seems even if it takes longer than it should Democrats would rather play by the rules than let the deplorables drag them into their games. However I do hold out some hope that maybe in this next election we rout them good enough just to get districts drawn up fair will be enough to force the GOP to realize they cant stop the tide any longer and we can get back to some level of civility.

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15 minutes ago, fourputt said:

Your probably asking for a lot if you expect Democrats to take Republicans to task. It seems even if it takes longer than it should Democrats would rather play by the rules than let the deplorables drag them into their games. However I do hold out some hope that maybe in this next election we rout them good enough just to get districts drawn up fair will be enough to force the GOP to realize they cant stop the tide any longer and we can get back to some level of civility.

 

I’m not asking anybody to break the rules. I’m asking Democrats to play by the rules that are in place. We have the majority. We owe it to them to ensure that their votes are as valuable as minority votes. If that means countering Republican gerrymandering with Democratic gerrymandering then so be it. 
 

Sometimes the best way to deal with a bully is to punch him in the nose. You usually only need do it once. 

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8 minutes ago, Olivaw said:

 

I’m not asking anybody to break the rules. I’m asking Democrats to play by the rules that are in place. We have the majority. We owe it to them to ensure that their votes are as valuable as minority votes. If that means countering Republican gerrymandering with Democratic gerrymandering then so be it. 
 

Sometimes the best way to deal with a bully is to punch him in the nose. You usually only need do it once. 

 

There needs to be a bipartisan commission for each state to decide the boundaries of districts. 

 

Adding more gas to the fire will not help.

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5 minutes ago, zkyllonen8 said:

 

There needs to be a bipartisan commission for each state to decide the boundaries of districts. 

 

Adding more gas to the fire will not help.


The rules don’t call for bipartisan commissions, they call for the party that controls the state to draw the boundaries. We’ll never get them to agree to bipartisan commissions until it is in their interest and it will never be in their interest if we let them roll us every time. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, Olivaw said:


The rules don’t call for bipartisan commissions, they call for the party that controls the state to draw the boundaries. We’ll never get them to agree to bipartisan commissions until it is in their interest and it will never be in their interest if we let them roll us every time. 
 

 

 

In Michigan it was on the ballot to make sure that the drawing of the districts has a non-partisan selected group of individuals, and I believe it passed so that the 2020 boundaries are not going to gerrymandered. 

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10 hours ago, zkyllonen8 said:

 

In Michigan it was on the ballot to make sure that the drawing of the districts has a non-partisan selected group of individuals, and I believe it passed so that the 2020 boundaries are not going to gerrymandered. 


Passing such measures Democratically controlled states while leaving Republican controlled states gerrymandered will still advantage Republicans. They are not concerned with principal, they are concerned with winning. 
 

 

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8 hours ago, Olivaw said:


Passing such measures Democratically controlled states while leaving Republican controlled states gerrymandered will still advantage Republicans. They are not concerned with principal, they are concerned with winning. 
 

 

 

yes this is why every state should have a bi-partisan coalition that draws the state districts, 5 Dems 5 Repubs. 

 

We need to make sure that our democracy is not getting played with by either of the parties. 

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2 hours ago, zkyllonen8 said:

 

yes this is why every state should have a bi-partisan coalition that draws the state districts, 5 Dems 5 Repubs. 

 

We need to make sure that our democracy is not getting played with by either of the parties. 


Bipartisan commissions are how it should be in an ideal nation. My concern is that the Republicans will Gerrymander the Red States while we make the Blue States fairer. We risk allowing the Rs to establish a more-or-less permanent systemic advantage. 
 

It sickens me that Trump won 3 million fewer votes and gets to be president. 
It sickens me that Ds won a far larger percentage of the vote on 2018 than Republicans did in 2010 but won far fewer seats. 
It sickens me that an unscrupulous minority gets to dictate to the majority. 

I’m so sickened that I am prepared to fight fire with fire. If we’re playing Marquis of Queensberry rules and they’re bringing knives into the ring then we will lose. 

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22 hours ago, Olivaw said:

It sickens me that Trump won 3 million fewer votes and gets to be president. 
It sickens me that Ds won a far larger percentage of the vote on 2018 than Republicans did in 2010 but won far fewer seats. 

 

This is also a function of the electoral college and the 'two senators per state' rule.  Gerrymandering is real and it's certainly evil/bad and should be eliminated, but it's not the only reason Democrats won fewer seats than their votes would suggest.  

 

On 12/13/2019 at 12:35 PM, Olivaw said:

Passing such measures Democratically controlled states while leaving Republican controlled states gerrymandered will still advantage Republicans. They are not concerned with principal, they are concerned with winning. 

 

This is one reason I vote against Republicans.  Please don't take that reason away by making Democrats equally wrong.

 

22 hours ago, Olivaw said:

If we’re playing Marquis of Queensberry rules and they’re bringing knives into the ring then we will lose. 

 

When I was in the military, I heard similar logic used to advocate for immoral actions.  "If the other side is doing it, we must do it too, or we'll lose.  If we don't torture prisoners, our people may die.  If we aren't willing to take non-combatant lives, more of our people will die.  If we fight honorably, we give the enemy an advantage."

 

No.  Immoral and unscrupulous acts are always wrong, regardless of who the actor is.   Don't give the other side ammunition for their propaganda.  Don't become the evil that you fight.  Don't sacrifice your values and morals for the sake of winning.  If you do, your victory has no meaning.

 

22 hours ago, Olivaw said:

I’m so sickened that I am prepared to fight fire with fire.

 

When you do that, you just get a bigger fire with more people burned.

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1 hour ago, Renegade said:

 

This is also a function of the electoral college and the 'two senators per state' rule.  Gerrymandering is real and it's certainly evil/bad and should be eliminated, but it's not the only reason Democrats won fewer seats than their votes would suggest.  

 

 

This is one reason I vote against Republicans.  Please don't take that reason away by making Democrats equally wrong.

 

 

When I was in the military, I heard similar logic used to advocate for immoral actions.  "If the other side is doing it, we must do it too, or we'll lose.  If we don't torture prisoners, our people may die.  If we aren't willing to take non-combatant lives, more of our people will die.  If we fight honorably, we give the enemy an advantage."

 

No.  Immoral and unscrupulous acts are always wrong, regardless of who the actor is.   Don't give the other side ammunition for their propaganda.  Don't become the evil that you fight.  Don't sacrifice your values and morals for the sake of winning.  If you do, your victory has no meaning.

 

 

When you do that, you just get a bigger fire with more people burned.

 

I understand your position and appreciate it but we aren’t talking about an evil “ends justify the means“ thing. Torture, murder and cruelty are abhorrent. To me, this is about giving people a Democratic voice in government. If the other side takes away their Democratic voice through gerrymandering should we refuse to counter it because we don’t want to be as dishonorable as Republicans? Is it worth, for example, another four years of a Donald Trump and all the cruelty and lawlessness that comes with it? 
 

Alas, we cannot do anything about the Senate and its corresponding EC votes beyond find a way to appeal to rural states. 

 

It doesn’t matter how honorable we are. Republicans will accuse us of cheating by encouraging 20 million undocumented immigrants and a few million dead people to vote for the Democratic ticket. Their propaganda machine has a flexible relationship with truth. 

 

Once again I find myself at odds with the majority in this room. I’ll bow out from this thread for now and allow others to have their say. Thanks all for the civil discussion. 

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On 12/13/2019 at 10:03 PM, Olivaw said:


Bipartisan commissions are how it should be in an ideal nation. My concern is that the Republicans will Gerrymander the Red States while we make the Blue States fairer. We risk allowing the Rs to establish a more-or-less permanent systemic advantage. 
 

It sickens me that Trump won 3 million fewer votes and gets to be president. 
It sickens me that Ds won a far larger percentage of the vote on 2018 than Republicans did in 2010 but won far fewer seats. 
It sickens me that an unscrupulous minority gets to dictate to the majority. 

I’m so sickened that I am prepared to fight fire with fire. If we’re playing Marquis of Queensberry rules and they’re bringing knives into the ring then we will lose. 

 

I know I agree but the only way that we have a fair assessment on both sides, not just one side. 

 

Even with gerrymandering trump won because of the Electoral college not misdrawn maps. 

 

Yes we do usually play with fire when the other side uses weapons but this is the way our political arena works now, no one plays fair or nice. 

 

Democrats are just as much to blame for gerrymandering as are the Republicans, this not just a one side issue. Both parties gerrymander when the chance is given to them. 

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20 minutes ago, zkyllonen8 said:

 

I know I agree but the only way that we have a fair assessment on both sides, not just one side. 

 

Even with gerrymandering trump won because of the Electoral college not misdrawn maps. 

 

Yes we do usually play with fire when the other side uses weapons but this is the way our political arena works now, no one plays fair or nice. 

 

Democrats are just as much to blame for gerrymandering as are the Republicans, this not just a one side issue. Both parties gerrymander when the chance is given to them. 

I promised no to press my position any more but I will reply. 
- agreed. Trump won because of EC, not districts. 
- agreed, Democrats have gerrymandered too. 
 

 

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This very topic is so important and the evidence of the shifts that have happened is further evidence of the tactics Republicans have implemented. Look no further than the 89th Congress to understand what fair districts would produce, a glimpse of that is what scares the schitt out of them but that is what fair districts will produce. It's no wonder they pull all the shenanigans they do their message doesn't resonate with the majority of Americans.

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On 12/18/2019 at 10:01 AM, fourputt said:

This very topic is so important and the evidence of the shifts that have happened is further evidence of the tactics Republicans have implemented. Look no further than the 89th Congress to understand what fair districts would produce, a glimpse of that is what scares the schitt out of them but that is what fair districts will produce. It's no wonder they pull all the shenanigans they do their message doesn't resonate with the majority of Americans.

Get out the vote, the youth must help get out the vote, there must be a transparent transcendence given by example. If you study history, the first thing you want to do is be there, 

you want to understand. Some say the full frontal lobe of the cerebral cortex is not fully formed until one reaches the adult age/ The frontal lobe of the brain is vital to our consciousness, as well as functions that appear uniquely human, such as spoken language. It is one of four paired lobes in the brain's cerebral cortex, and it plays vital roles in memory, attention, motivation, and numerous other daily tasks. 

It is, in scientific terms, a terrible thing to waste!

 

Peace!

 

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On 12/20/2019 at 12:56 AM, TheOldBarn said:

Get out the vote, the youth must help get out the vote, there must be a transparent transcendence given by example. If you study history, the first thing you want to do is be there, 

you want to understand. Some say the full frontal lobe of the cerebral cortex is not fully formed until one reaches the adult age/ The frontal lobe of the brain is vital to our consciousness, as well as functions that appear uniquely human, such as spoken language. It is one of four paired lobes in the brain's cerebral cortex, and it plays vital roles in memory, attention, motivation, and numerous other daily tasks. 

It is, in scientific terms, a terrible thing to waste!

 

Peace!

 

True with all of this, in the meantime Michael Moore is absolutely right when he stresses the importance in having separate ballot measures to get that young vote motivated. MARIJUANA legislation is that vehicle for that very purpose, now is the time to get this on every single battleground state so those votes will show up and we pulverize the GOP to a new insignificance they haven't seen since the 89th congress, and during that time pass some landmark legislation that absolutely changes people's lives in a better way.

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