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progressivecitizen

What has Trump done for them?

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Just wondering- I haven't actually asked any of them- what Trumptards think Trump has actually done for them in the last 3 years? Would they say a) specific policies, b) what he symbolizes or c) he's better than the harm liberals could do? I'd actually like to hear an argument against any of these excuses if anyone has any ready.

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If you read a sufficient number of posts in the NHB forum, you can probably get a reading on how the "conservatives" think.

Generally speaking, the Fox Network comes up with fantasy dragons,

and Trump slays them.

 

The illegals issue could be a good example.

Building a wall that will never be finished, because the Congressional Republicans won't spend the money, seems to impress the "conservative" base.

They never seem to make a connection between keeping new ones from coming in, and the millions that are already here.

And, if you press them on why they won't call their Congressman to press for the arrest of the EMPLOYERS of the illegals,

they know that they have no answer,

so they wriggle around, and avoid answering.

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6 hours ago, peter45 said:

And, if you press them on why they won't call their Congressman to press for the arrest of the EMPLOYERS of the illegals,

they know that they have no answer,

You are right. I have asked that question of some in the NHB and I didn't get an answer or a reasonable answer. I have seen in my state that the illegals are arrested but the employer is not when the employer knows they are illegal. If there is any action against the employer, it is merely a slap of the hand

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1 hour ago, Arris said:

You are right. I have asked that question of some in the NHB and I didn't get an answer or a reasonable answer. I have seen in my state that the illegals are arrested but the employer is not when the employer knows they are illegal. If there is any action against the employer, it is merely a slap of the hand

It clearly shows the racist beliefs they have. Punishing only the exploited is a disgraceful action by the courts but that is what they do just look at the statistics.

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A software engineer where I work, who didn't vote for Trump last time, said something like this to me:

 

Quote

He's certainly the worst person to have ever been president, and probably shouldn't ever have been elected president, but my 401K is doing really well, so I might vote for him next election, depending on who the Democratic candidates is.

 

This guy is in his late 30s, and really quite intelligent and nerdy. He doesn't care about immigrants, refugees, children in cages, etc.

 

If Trump is to be defeated at the polls it will take more than vilifying him. The Democratic candidate will have to have something positive and good for many people.

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On 11/27/2019 at 12:24 PM, progressivecitizen said:

what Trumptards think Trump has actually done for them in the last 3 years?

 

From my reading of Conservative posts in NHB, it seems that the main thing Trump does for his base is:  He makes them feel better. 

 

He is on their level and they identify with everything about him that most Liberal's find repellent.  They appreciate his impulsive actions, with a disregard of the consequences.  And they like his lack of principles;  And his racism.  Compared to past policies, his crudeness seems like a breath of fresh.  And his base is thrilled when his solutions to problems are gross and heavy handed, even if not especially effective.

 

Some examples:

-  Building the wall.

-  Caging immigrant children and ripping families asunder.

-  Favoring dictators and being critical of progressive, elected leaders.

-  Attempting to punish other nations with tariffs.

-  Trump's boorish performance at the NATO summit in Brussels.

 

For the most part, these are things Cons can understand and appreciate.  They identify with his crudeness, negativity and fourth grade speaking ability.   For them, all Lib leaders do is subtle stuff that doesn't send a forceful message, which is the only kind they respect.   For the most part, Cons don't see the self-defeating nature of this behavior. 

 

It's hard to break into the false narrative that most Trumpards have internalized.

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1 hour ago, bludog said:

He makes them feel better. 

 

Yes. And conversely Obama made them feel worse; partly because he was black, and partly because he was intelligent. Or probably because of both simultaneously.

 

It used to be that people would be proud of having an intelligent leader. They'd say something like "I'm a simple person, but I trust ..." whoever it was in power. FDR, Kennedy, even Nixon.

 

But today, every idiot can puff themselves up into thinking they're smart because they believe stupid conspiracy theories that are way out of the mainstream. And the purveyors of that nonsense tell them they're smart for believing it, and disbelieving science or common sense.

 

Evidence:

  1. anti-vaxxers
  2. people who use faith healing for a sick child
  3. shootings aren't real, the bereaved are crisis actors
  4. Pizzagate child trafficking sex ring conspiracy theory

  5. deep state

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10 hours ago, laripu said:

A software engineer where I work, who didn't vote for Trump last time, said something like this to me:

 

 

This guy is in his late 30s, and really quite intelligent and nerdy. He doesn't care about immigrants, refugees, children in cages, etc.

 

If Trump is to be defeated at the polls it will take more than vilifying him. The Democratic candidate will have to have something positive and good for many people.

The narrative behind Trumps economy might make one believe such a thought. It's short-term narrative however, and someone in their thirties should seriously think twice before voting for this guy.

Peace!

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37 minutes ago, laripu said:

 

Yes. And conversely Obama made them feel worse; partly because he was black, and partly because he was intelligent. Or probably because of both simultaneously.

 

It used to be that people would be proud of having an intelligent leader. They'd say something like "I'm a simple person, but I trust ..." whoever it was in power. FDR, Kennedy, even Nixon.

 

But today, every idiot can puff themselves up into thinking they're smart because they believe stupid conspiracy theories that are way out of the mainstream. And the purveyors of that nonsense tell them they're smart for believing it, and disbelieving science or common sense.

 

Evidence:

  1. anti-vaxxers
  2. people who use faith healing for a sick child
  3. shootings aren't real, the bereaved are crisis actors
  4. Pizzagate child trafficking sex ring conspiracy theory

  5. deep state

And I was worried about the Russian propaganda. I can't read peoples minds, but it certainly seems as though sowing division is a way for corrupt leaders to come into power and keep it.

Take this nonsense regarding immigration. Immigrants, even those who are undocumented are actually good for the US economy. Birth rates in the US are low and have been getting lower for decades in the US. The immigrants are not taking US jobs, especially those at the low end of the scale. 

 

Instead of leading all people towards better policies that would reduce inequality and allow the US move forward on the real problems that we face, there are those who continue to only divide us. Climate change, healthcare and education are big ticket issues that require people to work together. 

 

Robert Mercer style conspiracy theories do the opposite. And it's becoming deadly. It's spreading all over the globe. If you want to talk about migration - if we do nothing short of giving it our all now to fight climate change and to mitigate the damage already done, well that's not a world I would want anyone's children to live in thirty years from now.

 

Peace!

 

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Here's a cool tool for understanding how to fix social security - I think it makes sense to strengthen SS. I also think a UBI should be started only for the lowest income folks. I like the idea of 

changing student loan policy as well.

http://cepr.net/research-tools/online-calculators/when-do-high-income-earners-stop-paying-the-social-security-payroll-tax

 

Healthcare calculator.

 

http://cepr.net/research-tools/online-calculators/health-care-budget-deficit-calculator

 

Budget calculator

 

http://cepr.net/research-tools/online-calculators/cepr-budget-calculator

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20 hours ago, bludog said:

 

From my reading of Conservative posts in NHB, it seems that the main thing Trump does for his base is:  He makes them feel better. 

 

He is on their level and they identify with everything about him that most Liberal's find repellent.  They appreciate his impulsive actions, with a disregard of the consequences.  And they like his lack of principles;  And his racism.  Compared to past policies, his crudeness seems like a breath of fresh.  And his base is thrilled when his solutions to problems are gross and heavy handed, even if not especially effective.

 

Some examples:

-  Building the wall.

-  Caging immigrant children and ripping families asunder.

-  Favoring dictators and being critical of progressive, elected leaders.

-  Attempting to punish other nations with tariffs.

-  Trump's boorish performance at the NATO summit in Brussels.

 

For the most part, these are things Cons can understand and appreciate.  They identify with his crudeness, negativity and fourth grade speaking ability.   For them, all Lib leaders do is subtle stuff that doesn't send a forceful message, which is the only kind they respect.   For the most part, Cons don't see the self-defeating nature of this behavior. 

 

It's hard to break into the false narrative that most Trumpards have internalized.

That's exactly the take I had. Like any cult, the Trumptards are attracted to an image. Has anyone tried to ask a Trumptard they know what he has actually done for them in terms of policies or actions? I just can't imagine what they'd say. I did see a headline in the paper the other day about him giving money to farmers, but I'm sure that's not what it looks like on the surface. I guess one thing a Trumptard could say is that the economy is good. Naturally that's despite Trump, not because of him but they wouldn't understand that level of specificity. Maybe they'd also say he keeps dangerous elements at bay (his illegal immigrant policy) or maybe they'd claim that a Democrat in charge would waste their tax dollars on bloated and ineffective programs? 

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On 11/28/2019 at 8:27 AM, laripu said:

A software engineer where I work, who didn't vote for Trump last time, said something like this to me:

 

 

This guy is in his late 30s, and really quite intelligent and nerdy. He doesn't care about immigrants, refugees, children in cages, etc.

 

If Trump is to be defeated at the polls it will take more than vilifying him. The Democratic candidate will have to have something positive and good for many people.

The average person,

even an intelligent and nerdy person,

has no idea how the economy works,

but mostly,

has a hard time believing that 2008 will occur again.

Because, it scares the crap out of them, so they pretend that it won't happen.

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On 11/27/2019 at 2:38 PM, peter45 said:

the Fox Network comes up with fantasy dragons, and Trump slays them.


^ This. They’ve been conned. 

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All Trump does for them is every few weeks he gets up on a stage behind a podium in some obscure town in the middle of nowhere and shout about how magnificent he is and how corrupt and diseased all that oppose him or try to expose his true deceit. It's really quite disgusting and disgraceful and sad that people who for the most part are probably decent enough people most of the time but once you speak about trump they suddenly turn into this bloodthirsty  beast that wants to kill and destroy anything and anyone who defies their so called saviour. Trump has basically turned into his own cult it seems like, and this is something we cannot have in this country is a man who can basically like he described shoot a complete stranger on fifth Avenue and get away with it.

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