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The Truth About Ukrainian Military Aid

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KYIV, Ukraine—U.S. military aid is a luxury, not a necessity, for Ukrainian combat operations to counter Russian aggression. From what I’ve seen, the country is perfectly capable of fighting its own war—with or without the American military aid. 

However, recent news reports and social media commentaries highlight the fact that Ukraine’s armed forces suffered at least 13 combat deaths during the 55 days in which the Trump administration withheld nearly $400 million in military aid from mid-July to mid-September. 

...

President Donald Trump’s temporary suspension of U.S. military aid to Ukraine this summer is at the heart of a House impeachment inquiry. According to Democrats, Trump allegedly tried to leverage that defense assistance as a way to coerce Ukraine into investigating the role of Joe Biden’s son in a Ukrainian energy company. Republicans disagree, and say Trump held up the military aid over concerns about corruption in Ukraine.

...

 

Correlating the holdup in U.S. military aid with the rate of Ukrainian front-line casualties is a bogus conclusion, reflecting an ignorance of Ukraine’s military capabilities as well as a distorted understanding of the true nature of the war in the Donbas.

“Did Trump’s delay in providing military assistance to Ukraine have an effect on the war? I think that this delay did not have any influence on the situation in the eastern war zone,” Ukrainian army sniper Alexander Pochynok told The Daily Signal. 

“As for the soldiers who were killed—blame the enemy,” Pochynok said.

...

To meet its daily armament expenditure requirements, Ukraine still draws heavily on Soviet-era stockpiles, not American aid.

And the vaunted U.S. Javelin anti-tank missiles delivered to Ukraine under Trump’s watch haven’t been used in combat. The missiles are stored in warehouses distant from the front lines.

...

The $391 million in U.S. military aid that Trump temporarily withheld during the summer is a pittance compared with the $4.8 billion in aid the White House budgeted in 2020 for the Afghan National Defense Force. By that measure, U.S. military aid to Ukraine is a real bargain.

...This is why I don't believe leftwing propaganda...

 

In a September article in Politico headlined “How U.S. military aid became a lifeline for Ukraine,” the opening sentence reads:  

“The military aid scandal that spawned the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump has a very different significance for Ukraine, where years of U.S. assistance have just begun to turn a ragtag army into a better-armed and professional force to counter Russian aggression.”

I disagree.

It was, in fact, the courage of Ukrainian soldiers, not U.S. military aid, which saved the country from disaster when Russia invaded in 2014. 

...

Ukraine was the world’s 12th-largest major arms exporter from 2014 to 2018 (a period spanning the war in the Donbas), according to a March report from the Stockholm International Peace Institute.  That places Ukraine ahead of NATO countries such as Turkey and Canada when it comes to selling weapons abroad. 

...

At a Ukrainian fort near the front-line town of Marinka in 2016, I asked a 30-year-old Ukrainian soldier named Andriy about the value of U.S. military aid to support his country’s war effort against a Russian invasion force.

“American help is OK. But we need to learn how to do this on our own,” said Andriy, a native of the city of Kharkiv who was then serving in the Ukrainian army’s 92nd Mechanized Brigade.

“We shouldn’t rely on other countries for help. We need to fight this war on our own,” he said, adding: “More than ammunition, we need to know we’re not alone.” 

 

Full article here:

http://www.dailysignal.com/2019/11/19/setting-the-record-straight-on-the-value-of-us-military-aid-to-ukraine/

 

I do not understand why the repulsives are letting the dim-0-craps, with their phony impeachment bullsh!t, get away with the LIE about Ukrainian military aid.

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A better title for this idiotic thread, featuring bullshyt from a craphole source, would be.......

The Truth About the Stupid Gullibility of Rightwingnut Retards

Ukraine.....fighting off a Russian invasion of their border region. 

Russian tanks.....pretty tough, hard to stop with ordinary weapons, and could sweep over Ukraine.

American Javelin anti-tank missiles that were part of the military aid package approved by Congress that was withheld by Trump.....really good at destroying Russian tanks.

Russians.....not willing to risk tanks against Javelins.

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12 minutes ago, ConConfounder said:

A better title for this idiotic thread, featuring bullshyt from a craphole source, would be.......

The Truth About the Stupid Gullibility of Rightwingnut Retards

Ukraine.....fighting off a Russian invasion of their border region. 

Russian tanks.....pretty tough, hard to stop with ordinary weapons, and could sweep over Ukraine.

American Javelin anti-tank missiles that were part of the military aid package approved by Congress that was withheld by Trump.....really good at destroying Russian tanks.

Russians.....not willing to risk tanks against Javelins.

 

The Javelins were not part of the aid package that was held up. 

 

The Ukrainians had 150 Javelins in their possession, bought with $29 million of their own money and Zelenskyy mentioned buying more in the call, in addition to the ones they already had . . .

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29 minutes ago, ConConfounder said:

A better title for this idiotic thread, featuring bullshyt from a craphole source, would be.......

The Truth About the Stupid Gullibility of Rightwingnut Retards

Ukraine.....fighting off a Russian invasion of their border region. 

Russian tanks.....pretty tough, hard to stop with ordinary weapons, and could sweep over Ukraine.

American Javelin anti-tank missiles that were part of the military aid package approved by Congress that was withheld by Trump.....really good at destroying Russian tanks.

Russians.....not willing to risk tanks against Javelins.

You obviously did not read the article. The Javelin missiles have not been used. They are setting in a warehouse far from the front lines. The Ukrainians are the 12th largest exporters of military weapons in the world. The dim-0-craps are making it appear that the delayed aid which was money was the cause of hundreds of deaths. THAT is a LIE and, like the Ukrainian sniper said, "the deaths can be blamed on the enemy.

I do not understand why the repulsives are letting sch!tty and the dim-0-craps perpetuate that LIE!

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58 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

I do not understand why the repulsives are letting the dim-0-craps, with their phony impeachment bullsh!t, get away with the LIE about Ukrainian military aid.

It is not about the Ukrainians lacking weapons, it is about Ukrainians lacking the specific anti tank missiles needed to prevent Russian aggression with tanks. Javelins being available to the Ukrainians are a deterrent even if they are not used.

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6 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

It is not about the Ukrainians lacking weapons, it is about Ukrainians lacking the specific anti tank missiles needed to prevent Russian aggression with tanks.

SEE ABOVE you nasty little rat!  The Javelin missiles the US has already shipped to the Ukraine have not been used. They are stting in a warehouse far from the front lines.

From the article and the author , Nolan Peterson, has personally been there and talked to Ukrainian soldiers...

And the vaunted U.S. Javelin anti-tank missiles delivered to Ukraine under Trump’s watch haven’t been used in combat. The missiles are stored in warehouses distant from the front lines. 

 

That makes me think that all of your drivel is just LIES!

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14 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

You obviously did not read the article. The Javelin missiles have not been used.

 

Nobody said that they had been "used", nitwit. They are a deterrent......or is that also too big a word for you to understand, Buttfkalo.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

They are setting in a warehouse far from the front lines.

 

Ukrainian service members ride atop armored personnel carriers with Javelin antitank missiles during a military parade in Kyiv on Aug. 24, 2018, to celebrate Ukraine's Independence Day.

Ukrainian service members ride atop armored personnel carriers with Javelin antitank missiles during a military parade in Kyiv on Aug. 24, 2018, to celebrate Ukraine's Independence Day.  GENYA SAVILOV/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

 

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

The Ukrainians are the 12th largest exporters of military weapons in the world.

 

Meaningless! They sure as hell don't have export Javelin missiles, you poor retard.

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

The dim-0-craps are making it appear that the delayed aid which was money was the cause of hundreds of deaths.

 

You are so full of crap! The military aid that Trump put a hold on to blackmail the Ukrainians with.....

 

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

 

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

(source - Defense News)

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

I like to LIE!

 

That is very obvious and no surprise to anyone here.

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9 minutes ago, ConConfounder said:

 

Nobody said that they had been "used", nitwit. They are a deterrent......or is that also too big a word for you to understand, Buttfkalo.

 

 

 

 

Ukrainian service members ride atop armored personnel carriers with Javelin antitank missiles during a military parade in Kyiv on Aug. 24, 2018, to celebrate Ukraine's Independence Day.

Ukrainian service members ride atop armored personnel carriers with Javelin antitank missiles during a military parade in Kyiv on Aug. 24, 2018, to celebrate Ukraine's Independence Day.  GENYA SAVILOV/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meaningless! They sure as hell don't have export Javelin missiles, you poor retard.

 

 

 

 

 

You are so full of crap! The military aid that Trump put a hold on to blackmail the Ukrainians with.....

 

The U.S. has committed more than $1.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, when Russian-backed separatists began driving tanks through eastern Ukraine. The latest equipment was largely more of the same aid the U.S. previously supplied, aimed at helping Ukraine monitor and secure its borders, deploy its forces more safely and effectively, and make progress toward NATO interoperability.

 

The Defense Department’s tranche was set to include sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, counter-artillery radars, electronic warfare detection and secure communications, night vision equipment, and military medical supplies and treatment. The department previously included counter-sniper equipment, Humvees and tactical drones as well.

(source - Defense News)

 

 

 

 

That is very obvious and no surprise to anyone here.

BULLcrap! So, fu(k you, conman.

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1 hour ago, Jeerleader said:

 

The Javelins were not part of the aid package that was held up. 

 

The Ukrainians had 150 Javelins in their possession, bought with $29 million of their own money and Zelenskyy mentioned buying more in the call, in addition to the ones they already had . . .

 

You're right. My mistake. I guess I got that mixed up with Trump's threat to not sell them any more Javelins unless they did him "a little favor".....

Did Trump Leverage a Missile Sale to Ukraine for Political Gain?

This may not be the first time the Javelin antitank missile has been caught in the political crosshairs.

Foreign Policy Magazine

BY LARA SELIGMAN, AMY MACKINNON

 | SEPTEMBER 25, 2019

 

In a phone call with his Ukrainian counterpart this summer, U.S. President Donald Trump appeared to suggest that he could use as political leverage Ukraine’s request for additional advanced U.S. missiles that Kyiv sees as critical to its ability to deter a Russian ground invasion.

 

The most recent call may not have been the first time Javelin missiles have been caught in the political crosshairs. In April 2018, just weeks after the U.S. State Department approved a $47 million sale of Javelins to Ukraine, Kyiv halted investigations by an anti-corruption prosecutor into Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, who worked for a decade for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine, in an apparent effort not to rock the boat in Washington.

 

There is so far no evidence that Trump threatened to delay the 2018 missile sale in exchange for political favors. But a July 25 call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, which is at the center of a growing storm that threatens to engulf the U.S. president, raises new questions about future sales and his interactions with foreign leaders. Trump is now facing a formal impeachment inquiry after allegations emerged that he improperly pressured Ukraine’s government to dig up dirt on the son of his potential election rival Joe Biden.

 

Ukraine’s five-year conflict with Russia is caught up in the scandal. Military aid from the United States—primarily training and nonlethal equipment such as protective vests and night vision goggles—has been pivotal in helping Ukraine fend off Moscow-backed separatists and a Russian invasion.

 

Since the sale, the presence of the Javelin in Ukraine been a “game-changer” in keeping the Russian military from pushing further into the country, said Jim Townsend, a former U.S. Defense Department official who served for eight years as the deputy assistant secretary of defense for European and NATO policy during the Obama administration.

 

If they want to push that battle line farther west, they can’t just get up and walk across no man’s land—they are going to have to have the weaponry to do that,” Townsend said. “Javelin is effective at blunting a big offensive.”

 

But Trump reportedly withheld a package of military aid to push Kyiv to look into Hunter Biden, who used to do business in the Eastern European country.

 

According to a transcript of the call released by the White House, Trump also appeared to hold hostage a key weapon system: the heat-seeking Javelin missile, a Raytheon and Lockheed Martin-built weapon capable of defeating modern armored tanks.

 

After Zelensky said his government was “almost ready” to purchase additional Javelin missiles for “defense purposes,” Trump responded: “I would like you to do us a favor though.”

 

In a confusing ramble, Trump suggested that Zelensky look into “the server” and mentioned CrowdStrike, a U.S. cybersecurity company that helped investigate a hack of Democratic National Committee servers that the Justice Department says was conducted by Russian operatives. The aim of the request was likely to cast doubt on claims that Russia influenced the 2016 presidential election that ushered him into office.

 

Later during the call, Trump asks Zelensky to work with Attorney General William Barr to “find out about” investigations of corruption regarding the younger Biden, who was on the board of a Ukrainian oil company.

 

The Obama administration for years resisted Ukraine’s repeated requests for Javelin missiles, said Townsend, who worked the Europe desk at the time. Though the Pentagon was pushing the sale in order to help Ukraine deter Russia’s advanced military, the administration ultimately decided Ukraine’s armed forces “were not ready to absorb” more sophisticated weapon systems, which require advanced training to use.

 

Since President Barack Obama left office, Ukraine’s military has advanced to the point where it can begin using more sophisticated weapon systems, Townsend said.

 

Javelin was the symbol that they’d gone from JV to varsity—it just so happened that the Trump administration was in power when the Javelin sale went through,” Townsend said.

 

As the sale was being finalized in early 2018, Ukraine was dealing with the Trump administration on an entirely different front. Ukrainian investigators had opened four anti-corruption probes into Manafort related to his consulting work for Russian-leaning former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who was ousted in 2014.

 

Keenly aware of Trump’s sensitivity concerning the investigation by U.S. special counsel Robert Mueller into alleged collusion between Russia and his campaign, Kyiv froze the anti-corruption probes in April 2018.

 

By that point, the Javelin sale had already gone through. Ukraine tested its new missiles for the first time the next month. Then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko announced the test on Twitter, touting the missiles as “a very effective defensive weaponry, which is used in the event of Russian offensive on the positions of Ukrainian troops.”

 

The missiles are meant to be used for defensive purposes in the event that new violence breaks out in the conflict, which is currently simmering under a shaky cease-fire.

 

Whether Trump held up nonlethal military aid or Javelin missiles, the request is clearly “extortion,” Townsend said.

 

This is so blunt, and it is for the wrong reasons,” he said.

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