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12 hours ago, Skans said:

I think the original point Bill was trying to make is that a novice who has had no defensive firearms training is at a high risk of having a moderately experienced BG be able to quickly disarm and use that gun against the novice.   And, I have to say, Bill made a good point about that. 

 

To a certain point, yes (though I'm loathe to admit that Bill might have made a "good point" about anything).  It is my belief that the exercise of any right must be pursued responsibly by each citizen; and no right mandates responsibility as much as the right of self-defense and of being armed.  I believe everyone who chooses to be armed should pursue the knowledge necessary to not only be armed but effectively so; but each individual must make that choice for themselves.  Sadly, in this society of people refusing to acknowledging the slightest bit of self-responsibility or consideration of consequence, people are not making good choices.

 

12 hours ago, Skans said:

The type of thing you are talking about is a more advanced martial arts training where using a gun, or a knife (recognizing knife fighting is a different set of skills), becomes an extension of your core fighting technique(s).  I've done some of this (no expert by any means), but it's actually not that easy find someone who is competent and willing to train people in these methods. 

 

I've always believed in a layered approach to training; the better trained one is the better one can deal with a crisis should it arise.  That attitude saved my life more than once; professionally and personally.

 

However... one can train themselves to sufficient proficiency for personal defense easier than some would characterize the process to be.  I'll leave it at that.

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12 hours ago, Imgreatagain said:

a 365 XL

I really like it. I haven't got it yet. 

i'm not sure if I should wait till after the gun show.. just to make sure. 

 

Oh!  VERY nice!

 

I like the 365 as a platform; I've shot it, though I don't own one myself.  The standard 365 is too small for the bear paws at the ends of my arms that I have, but it's a reliable, accurate pistol.  The XL gives you a bit more to hang onto, and improved shootability as a result.

 

I think you'll enjoy its capabilities once you get a chance to put it through its paces.

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12 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

All things are on a spectrum from too little to too much. Finding the balance is tough and not as easy as know-it-alls on the internet want to suppose. In his case, I would say too much considering that he lives in a very low crime area. Again, I can't list it all off but he is not a weekend warrior. He is constantly training in firearms, knife combat, martial arts, running up a mountain with an 100 lb. pack, etc.  I stay reasonably fit but only because I want to be active with my kids and be able to enjoy life as I get older. 

 

Well, I grew up with a career cop for a grandfather and a Navy fighter pilot as a father.  If I didn't push myself hard, I felt like I was disappointing them.  

 

I was into training early.  My grandfather gave me a poster once; it showed a prison weight room with a heavily-muscled inmate doing heavy squats.  The caption was: "He didn't miss his workout today.  Did you?"  I've never forgotten that.  Now that I'm getting older and my LE career is behind me, there are sometimes days when I find it hard to get motivated.  Then I think of that poster and I rededicate myself to getting my training reps in.

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7 hours ago, Skans said:

I used to like going to gun shows every now and then.  But, in the age of the internet, I just don't see the point.  If I can't find it on the internet, I can find it at Rock Island Auction. 

 

I remember when gun shows were social events, and it was a great place for fellow enthusiasts to socialize and enjoy their shared interests.  Sadly, most of that camaraderie and good natured exchange has been lost.  Now they're mostly shows for overpriced junk.

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6 hours ago, guilluamezenz said:

youll shoot your eye out kid

 

30 years professional and personal experience proves you wrong, boy.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Blue Devil said:

 

But it's your fascination with them that makes us laugh.

 

Ha!

 

Nice!  Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I love the hoplophobes sneering self-righteously about guns, some proclaiming how they're such bad-asses they've intimidated gun-toting criminals into surrender with naught but an Eastwood-esque glare... and are obsessed with equating gun ownership to sexual compensation; exposing themselves for what they truly are.

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2 hours ago, Spartan said:

 It is my belief that the exercise of any right must be pursued responsibly by each citizen; and no right mandates responsibility as much as the right of self-defense and of being armed.  I believe everyone who chooses to be armed should pursue the knowledge necessary to not only be armed but effectively so; but each individual must make that choice for themselves.  Sadly, in this society of people refusing to acknowledging the slightest bit of self-responsibility or consideration of consequence, people are not making good choices.

 

 

I've always believed in a layered approach to training; the better trained one is the better one can deal with a crisis should it arise.  That attitude saved my life more than once; professionally and personally.

 

However... one can train themselves to sufficient proficiency for personal defense easier than some would characterize the process to be.  I'll leave it at that.

 

Wise words that everyone should heed

 

 

2 hours ago, Spartan said:

.  My grandfather gave me a poster once; it showed a prison weight room with a heavily-muscled inmate doing heavy squats.  The caption was: "He didn't miss his workout today.  Did you?"  I've never forgotten that.

 

There's a very similar poster in my favorite LEO's weight room right now

 

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17 hours ago, Spartan said:

 

30 years professional and personal experience proves you wrong, boy.

 

 

training or not studies show that gun in your homes increases the risk to your wife your kids your dog and especially you for suicide there is ten time s the chance youll kill a loved one or yourself than a intruder

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20 hours ago, Spartan said:

 

Well, I grew up with a career cop for a grandfather and a Navy fighter pilot as a father.  If I didn't push myself hard, I felt like I was disappointing them.  

 

I was into training early.  My grandfather gave me a poster once; it showed a prison weight room with a heavily-muscled inmate doing heavy squats.  The caption was: "He didn't miss his workout today.  Did you?"  I've never forgotten that.  Now that I'm getting older and my LE career is behind me, there are sometimes days when I find it hard to get motivated.  Then I think of that poster and I rededicate myself to getting my training reps in.

 

Hey, we both have Navy fighter pilots as fathers. My father, now deceased, started as a Naval fighter pilot in the Pacific in WWII and then transitioned to the Marine Air Corps, flying F-4U Corsairs. 

 

Bill

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

Hey, we both have Navy fighter pilots as fathers. My father, now deceased, started as a Naval fighter pilot in the Pacific in WWII and then transitioned to the Marine Air Corps, flying F-4U Corsairs. 

 

Bill

 

 

CRASH TEST DUMMY'S DON'T COUNT!

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  Look at you old guys talking about how to successfully defend against a gun or knife.

 You geezers are hilarious to say the least.

 None of you could move fast enough to defend against an attacker.

 20 feet to you old trumpanzees may as well be a quarter mile.

 You old bastards couldn't defend yourselves an attacker whether you are armed or unarmed.

 Laughable looking at you guys recount the glory days.

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19 minutes ago, Squatchman said:

  Look at you old guys talking about how to successfully defend against a gun or knife.

 You geezers are hilarious to say the least.

 None of you could move fast enough to defend against an attacker.

 20 feet to you old trumpanzees may as well be a quarter mile.

 You old bastards couldn't defend yourselves an attacker whether you are armed or unarmed.

 Laughable looking at you guys recount the glory days.

 

 

Wow, this is an impressively ignorant post!

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:42 PM, Spartan said:

 

Oh!  VERY nice!

 

I like the 365 as a platform; I've shot it, though I don't own one myself.  The standard 365 is too small for the bear paws at the ends of my arms that I have, but it's a reliable, accurate pistol.  The XL gives you a bit more to hang onto, and improved shootability as a result.

 

I think you'll enjoy its capabilities once you get a chance to put it through its paces.

The shop is a bit pricey. Doing some comparisons before I jump in . But , it’s def gonna be gotten 

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17 hours ago, guilluamezenz said:

training or not studies show that gun in your homes increases the risk to your wife your kids your dog and especially you for suicide there is ten time s the chance youll kill a loved one or yourself than a intruder

 

I love how gun haters continue to cite discredited studies to push their agenda.

 

In my case, both my wife and I are trained; she has 15 years experience as a security contractor.  There is no risk of us killing anybody but criminal threats.  Your stats are bovine excrement.

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6 hours ago, Squatchman said:

  Look at you old guys talking about how to successfully defend against a gun or knife.

 You geezers are hilarious to say the least.

 None of you could move fast enough to defend against an attacker.

 20 feet to you old trumpanzees may as well be a quarter mile.

 You old bastards couldn't defend yourselves an attacker whether you are armed or unarmed.

 Laughable looking at you guys recount the glory days.

 

We could discuss that like men.

 

WP-20180906-09-02-15-Pro-50-BD3.jpg

 

And then, after you regained consciousness, if you were still confused?

 

...We could discuss it some more.

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14 hours ago, SpyCar said:

 

Hey, we both have Navy fighter pilots as fathers. My father, now deceased, started as a Naval fighter pilot in the Pacific in WWII and then transitioned to the Marine Air Corps, flying F-4U Corsairs. 

 

Bill

 

 

Oh, wow....  

 

My father started in WWII as well; flying F6F Hellcats off of carriers in the Pacific.  He went on to fly in Korea in F9F Panthers, then became a test pilot.  He was actually heavily involved in the and testing of the F4 Phantom during its development as well.  He loved that bird; I remember when the first Gulf war was going on and the Air Force was still using the Phantom in Wild Weasel operations he strutted around like he was 20 years younger because "his bird" was still on the front line doing the job.  He passed away nearly two decades ago and I still miss him.

 

I've always liked the Corsair too; there's something about that gull-wing design that's always appealed to me.

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5 hours ago, Squatchman said:

  Look at you old guys talking about how to successfully defend against a gun or knife.

 You geezers are hilarious to say the least.

 None of you could move fast enough to defend against an attacker.

 20 feet to you old trumpanzees may as well be a quarter mile.

 You old bastards couldn't defend yourselves an attacker whether you are armed or unarmed.

 Laughable looking at you guys recount the glory days.

 

You don't fool anybody.

 

You're a thug, and a scumbag. You've already bragged about how you like picking fights.  I've dealt with your type before; all talk with no substance.  Contemptible punk.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Spartan said:

 

Oh, wow....  

 

My father started in WWII as well; flying F6F Hellcats off of carriers in the Pacific.  He went on to fly in Korea in F9F Panthers, then became a test pilot.  He was actually heavily involved in the and testing of the F4 Phantom during its development as well.  He loved that bird; I remember when the first Gulf war was going on and the Air Force was still using the Phantom in Wild Weasel operations he strutted around like he was 20 years younger because "his bird" was still on the front line doing the job.  He passed away nearly two decades ago and I still miss him.

 

I've always liked the Corsair too; there's something about that gull-wing design that's always appealed to me.

 

Very cool. My father flew off carriers at times, but was mostly on Peleliu. His plane was hit durning a bombing run and he had a bad crash landing at sea (durning the worst typhoon of the war) where he broke his back and was tossed in a life-raft in 30 foot seas until he was rescued just before dark by a US destroyer. He was lucky to survive. He spent the remainder of the war in body casts in military hospitals. But flew again briefly stateside after he recovered.

 

My father LOVED the Corsair. He called it a "proud bird." His eyed would twinkle when he talked about that airplane.

 

I'm sorry fo the loss of your father. My dad was the biggest hero I've had in this life. I miss him so much. What a generation.

 

I'm calling a truce with you.

 

Bill

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3 hours ago, SpyCar said:

 

Very cool. My father flew off carriers at times, but was mostly on Peleliu. His plane was hit durning a bombing run and he had a bad crash landing at sea (durning the worst typhoon of the war) where he broke his back and was tossed in a life-raft in 30 foot seas until he was rescued just before dark by a US destroyer. He was lucky to survive. He spent the remainder of the war in body casts in military hospitals. But flew again briefly stateside after he recovered.

 

Holy cow!  All I can say is that they bred them tough back then.  To come back and fly again after suffering that kind of experience means your father was possessed of a ton of grit and determination.  My hat is off to him!  My father was part of the force build-up for Operation Olympic; by that time most of the best of the Japanese pilots had been decimated.  He saw some combat, but made the grim observation that the Japanese had developed some aircraft that were far more capable than they had fielded earlier in the war...  and he felt lucky they didn't really have anyone left who could fly them to their fullest potential.

 

3 hours ago, SpyCar said:

My father LOVED the Corsair. He called it a "proud bird." His eyed would twinkle when he talked about that airplane.

 

My father's best friend, who he went through flight school with and I grew up thinking of as a beloved uncle, was a Corsair pilot as well, and he had the same deep affection for it!

 

3 hours ago, SpyCar said:

I'm sorry fo the loss of your father. My dad was the biggest hero I've had in this life. I miss him so much. What a generation.

 

As I'm sorry for the loss of yours.  I felt the same way about my own father; I was incredibly blessed to have two amazing role models growing up, with my father and my maternal grandfather, who was the career law enforcement officer, but my father and I were very close.  I miss just sitting with him in his office, both with our feet up, sharing beers and solving the world's problems.  I'd give almost anything to have a chance to hear his sage advice again.

 

"What a generation."  That's the pure truth.

 

3 hours ago, SpyCar said:

I'm calling a truce with you.

 

Bill

 

I genuinely appreciate that, Bill.  Thanks; for the truce, and for your sharing of the stories of your father!

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41 minutes ago, Spartan said:

 

Holy cow!  All I can say is that they bred them tough back then.  To come back and fly again after suffering that kind of experience means your father was possessed of a ton of grit and determination.  My hat is off to him!  My father was part of the force build-up for Operation Olympic; by that time most of the best of the Japanese pilots had been decimated.  He saw some combat, but made the grim observation that the Japanese had developed some aircraft that were far more capable than they had fielded earlier in the war...  and he felt lucky they didn't really have anyone left who could fly them to their fullest potential.

 

 

My father's best friend, who he went through flight school with and I grew up thinking of as a beloved uncle, was a Corsair pilot as well, and he had the same deep affection for it!

 

 

As I'm sorry for the loss of yours.  I felt the same way about my own father; I was incredibly blessed to have two amazing role models growing up, with my father and my maternal grandfather, who was the career law enforcement officer, but my father and I were very close.  I miss just sitting with him in his office, both with our feet up, sharing beers and solving the world's problems.  I'd give almost anything to have a chance to hear his sage advice again.

 

"What a generation."  That's the pure truth.

 

 

I genuinely appreciate that, Bill.  Thanks; for the truce, and for your sharing of the stories of your father!

 

The craziest thing about my dad's landing at sea--other than one pilot erroneously radioing "your landing gear is down!," which would have been deadly landing at sea, was needing to decide if he should crash with his cockpit open or closed. If you crash "open" you can get out quickly *if* the canopy doesn't violently crash forward and jam, trapping one forever, where "closed" means needing to go under water completely to overcome the pressure. He chose closed. Then, once he escaped his plane, he couldn't get his life-raft open. He kept squeezing the mechanism without luck. Then he remember their was a cotter-pin that needed to be pulled. 

 

When the raft inflated, it was upside down. The monstrous waves were coming in, and with a broken back he had to flip the raft and pull himself inside. And the typhoon turned more and more violent. As dusk approached the saw the USS Lansdowne on the horizon. The ship barreled down straight at him. My dad thought they didn't see him and that he was going to be mowed over. But evidently that was their technique, they go straight at their target then reverse engines. My dad said the sailors who came over the rope ladders were incredibly heroic. They truly were putting their lives as risk.

 

As was the whole ship, which was taking 38 degree rolls--way past its rating. They later told my dad that if it had been one-half hour later they'd have given up the rescue. Too rough.

 

Somehow, they got my dad aboard. Not easy in those kinds of rough seas.

 

He was badly hurt. He was offered morphine by the ship's doctor. My father refused. When the x-rays came back showing multiple broken vertebrae, the story of the son-of-a-bitch Marine who refused morphine evidently spread around the ship. He reminded the sailors that he was also a Navy man. He was treated like a hero onboard. 

 

My dad was a little bit bummed that he wasn't able to go with his squadron who were about to ship out for the Battle of Okinawa, where many became Aces against the admittedly diminished Japanese Airforce, which was putting up poorly trained pilots at that point in the war.

 

But otherwise he was very grateful to come home alive. He lost so many friends and squadron mates. Those losses were something that were very solemn for my dad. He never forgot. And he cherished life. I was fortunate to have him until he turned 92, yet I still felt cheated by death when it came. I loved him so much. Still do.

 

I did get a chuckle over your grandfathers poster of prison inmates pumping iron to motivate you. Funny!

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

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bless all who served this great nation (we do not have a deep state) and its united state members that makes us great 

 

 

some now claim to be Americans and do russias bidding and hate everyone who dosent love trump

 

they even talk of KILLING AMERICANS to save tRump

 

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

The craziest thing about my dad's landing at sea--other than one pilot erroneously radioing "your landing gear is down!," which would have been deadly landing at sea, was needing to decide if he should crash with his cockpit open or closed. If you crash "open" you can get out quickly *if* the canopy doesn't violently crash forward and jam, trapping one forever, where "closed" means needing to go under water completely to overcome the pressure. He chose closed. Then, once he escaped his plane, he couldn't get his life-raft open. He kept squeezing the mechanism without luck. Then he remember their was a cotter-pin that needed to be pulled. 

 

When the raft inflated, it was upside down. The monstrous waves were coming in, and with a broken back he had to flip the raft and pull himself inside. And the typhoon turned more and more violent. As dusk approached the saw the USS Lansdowne on the horizon. The ship barreled down straight at him. My dad thought they didn't see him and that he was going to be mowed over. But evidently that was their technique, they go straight at their target then reverse engines. My dad said the sailors who came over the rope ladders were incredibly heroic. They truly were putting their lives as risk.

 

As was the whole ship, which was taking 38 degree rolls--way past its rating. They later told my dad that if it had been one-half hour later they'd have given up the rescue. Too rough.

 

Somehow, they got my dad aboard. Not easy in those kinds of rough seas.

 

He was badly hurt. He was offered morphine by the ship's doctor. My father refused. When the x-rays came back showing multiple broken vertebrae, the story of the son-of-a-bitch Marine who refused morphine evidently spread around the ship. He reminded the sailors that he was also a Navy man. He was treated like a hero onboard. 

 

I get chills reading that.  My dad talked about the training for ditching, and even mentioned the options available of "open" or "closed" on impact.  Having the self-control to do it closed and having to wait for full submersion to equalize the pressure, then fighting with the life raft... then getting the raft righted and having to ride it through a storm?  All with a shattered back?  Wow.  He truly was a hero in every sense of the word!

 

31 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

But otherwise he was very grateful to come home alive. He lost so many friends and squadron mates. Those losses were something that were very solemn for my dad. He never forgot. And he cherished life. I was fortunate to have him until he turned 92, yet I still felt cheated by death when it came. I loved him so much. Still do.

 

You talk about that and you could be describing my father.  He lost friends in the wars he fought in, and he lost friends during his test pilot days too.  I find myself thinking of the one who was doing testing of new flight gauges and working on perfecting instrument flying through heavy cloud cover... and he came out of the clouds only to find out that the gauges were reading wrong and he was far lower than he thought he actually was.  His final radio transmission was: "Oh, hello, Mountain."  Dad would tell that story and you could see the loss he still felt so deeply, but there was also the admiration and even amusement that came from thinking of not only his friend's coolness and courage, but of his sense of exasperation in that last moment.

 

Sadly, my father's life was cut short by Parkinson's Disease.  It was heartbreaking to see a man who had once been able to make high-performance aircraft dance rendered incapable of controlling even his own body; but I was honored to act as his caregiver at the end of his life.  Ironically, as much as I hated seeing him have to endure that, it opened the door to he and I having an even deeper friendship, and we put time and effort into making sure we left nothing unsaid.  He was just shy of 80 when he passed, and like you said, I felt cheated.  I love my dad fiercely, and miss him every day.

 

31 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

I did get a chuckle over your grandfathers poster of prison inmates pumping iron to motivate you. Funny!

 

It was effective, that's for sure!  

 

31 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

To you as well, sir!

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The fact that I am a gun lover, yet I tread carefully should be evidence of how cautious gun owners are.  

“Gun nuts” not so much. 

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5 minutes ago, Imgreatagain said:

The fact that I am a gun lover, yet I tread carefully should be evidence of how cautious gun owners are.  

“Gun nuts” not so much. 

 

Some think anyone who wants to own a gun is a "Gun nut".  Believing in the right to be armed for self-defense makes you a monster to them.

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4 minutes ago, Imgreatagain said:

The fact that I am a gun lover, yet I tread carefully should be evidence of how cautious gun owners are.  

“Gun nuts” not so much. 

 

Any "nuts" don't belong in reasonable discussions about Adult Considerations.

 

...Unless crazy is the topic of discussion.

 

Leftists are incapable of having Adult discussions. 

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