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Even Physicists Don’t Understand Quantum Mechanics

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2 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

Quantum mechanics is not a topic anyone can discuss in this forum, for obvious reasons.

LOL... what are the obvious reasons?

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Just now, XavierOnassis said:

Quantum mechanics is not a topic anyone can discuss in this forum, for obvious reasons.

Things I know about quantum mechanics:

 

-physicists tell me that conceptually, it makes no sense

-physicists tell me that if they do the math correctly, quantum mechanics accurately predicts reality

-physicists who tell me these things drive the innovation of technologies that actually function

-physicists who tell me these things also tell me that if I study hard and can do the math myself, I can verify all of this for myself, as they have done

 

That is literally the sum total of what I truly know about quantum mechanics.

 

Oh, and also:

-I personally trust the highly competitive scientific community more than Internet conspiracy theory trolls

 

That's about it, I think.

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3 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

Quantum mechanics is not a topic anyone can discuss in this forum, for obvious reasons.

 

Obviously false. Many choose to discuss. If you bothered to read the article, it's main thesis is a call for universities to engage in theoretical research.

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I can agree with this.

The idea that because Stephen Hawking is dead that his theories are therefore useless is the typical sort of crap these trolls spew.

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Just now, XavierOnassis said:

I can agree with this.

The idea that because Stephen Hawking is dead that his theories are therefore useless is the typical sort of crap these trolls spew.

 

No one said being dead invalidates all your research. 

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9 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

Obviously false. Many choose to discuss. If you bothered to read the article, it's main thesis is a call for universities to engage in theoretical research.

I am all for discussion and research.But it is too complicated a topic to deal with there.

It is like "you can't roller skate in a buffalo herd."

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Just now, XavierOnassis said:

I am all for discussion and research.But it is too complicated a topic to deal with there.

It is like "you can't roller skate in a buffalo herd."

 

blah

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8 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

No one said being dead invalidates all your research. 

Of course not, that was my point.

That was the implication.

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Go ahead  and discuss it, if you wish. But I do not think we will get anywhere with the disproportionate number of Southern Baptists, morons and trolls present.\And then there is sole, who thinks it is invalid because blah blah now is infinity, and E=MCcubed

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Just now, XavierOnassis said:

Go ahead  and discuss it, if you wish. But I do not think we will get anywhere with the disproportionate number of Southern Baptists, morons and trolls present.\And then there is sole, who thinks it is invalid because blah blah now is infinity.

 

Only you bother with Sole. 

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1 hour ago, Imgreatagain said:

This is hilarious. Pointless threads to obtain attention. 

So THIS is what people mean by trolling. 

 

Yes, exactly.

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Just now, Skans said:

Yes, exactly.

 

Sorry to make you think about the physical nature of our universe. Let's talk about Sarah Palin getting divorced....up your alley, right?

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23 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

Quantum mechanics is not a topic anyone can discuss in this forum, for obvious reasons.

Do you have the math and physics background necessary to discuss Quantum Mechanics theory in detail?

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Just now, Skans said:

Do you have the math and physics background necessary to discuss Quantum Mechanics theory in detail?

No, I do not. I passed Intro to Physics  101with a B, decades ago.

We have people in this forum who do not believe in Evolution, or gravity.

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18 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

No, I do not. I passed Intro to Physics  101with a B, decades ago.

We have people in this forum who do not believe in Evolution, or gravity.

While I have read some on the theories behind Quantum Mechanics (particularly "Now: The Physics of Time" R. Muller, some Hawkins, etc.), I do not possess the math skills to truly understand Quantum Mechanics at the mathematical level.  And, I think it really is at that level that you need to be proficient to really comprehend why Quantum Mechanics is more of a mechanism that just works rather than something that is capable of being understood.  I recall Richard Muller explaining this in his book that if you think you can makes sense of the equations pertaining to Quantum Mechanics, you don't understand Quantum Mechanics.

 

That's not to say that there aren't people that can learn the calculations and do them (of which I am not one), but that some of these calculations just don't have any real "meaning" behind them.

 

As for believing in "Evolution" or "Gravity", I think those topics on their own need to be delved into much further to determine what people believe or don't believe.  I have read a lot about gravity (and magnetism), and gravity  is "freaky" (magnetism is even freakier to me).  Measurable? Absolutely.  But, no one will be able to provide you with a precise, complete explanation of what gravity actually is.

 

Evolution.  What is that?  Adaption? Mutation? Natural Selection? Biogenisis?  When someone says they don't believe in Evolution, have you isolated precisely what they do and do not believe?

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31 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

I am all for discussion and research.But it is too complicated a topic to deal with there.

It is like "you can't roller skate in a buffalo herd."

Let's be honest it's too complicated for you... So don't impose your limitations and everyone else

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Quantum Mechanics  is too complicated to explain in any form that  even abbreviated, would be read here. Worse than even Wassik's horrid screed,or that Turkish wackjob that pops in here occasionally.

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1 minute ago, XavierOnassis said:

Quantum Mechanics  is too complicated to explain in any form that  even abbreviated, would be read here. Worse than even Wassik's horrid screed,or that Turkish wackjob that pops in here occasionally.

 

You should read the article I linked to. Thread is not a challenge for everyone to pontificate on quantum mechanics.

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1 hour ago, splunch said:

The effects MATTER has on space-time.

 

Matter is not an imaginary concept.

 

It is when there's zero physical evidence of it.  

 

Quote

Not even matter with properties we do not fully understand is an imaginary concept.

 

You're affirming the consequent.  There's no physical evidence for dark matter.  Light bends around distant galaxies and galaxy clusters in ways that render equations we've come to trust as universally true to be incorrect.  To maintain the correctness of that theory and its associated equations, an invisible, undetectable, mysterious matter is assumed to exist. That's as big of a leap of faith as any other imagined explanation.

 

Quote

 Matter with properties we do not understand clearly exists, and it is bending light.  We can SEE that.  We're not INVENTING IT.  It is most definitely there.

 

Whatever it is.  

 

We know and have verified that matter (the kind we know is real because we can see/detect it) bends light.  We've measured our own sun doing that by itself.  The only other thing we know is that, on the scale of our solar system, matter bends light in ways consistent with general relativity, whereas galaxies and clusters bend light in ways inconsistent with general relativity.  

 

The video I posted calls the bullet cluster a nail in the coffin of modified gravity, but to me, that same example also makes dark matter all the more bewilderingly implausible.  Let me explain why.

 

The bullet cluster's lensing shows the main centers of gravity sticking with the stars and galaxies themselves, rather than coalescing around the middle area where the clusters intersected.  This means that "dark matter" is heavy and slow moving just like the stars that fill the galaxies.  If dark matter were  tiny particles that only have mass in aggregate, then we would have expected a lot more of the dark matter to have been ripped from the bullet cluster galaxies like the gases were.  But they weren't.  They stuck with the big heavy stars.  This observation leads some to think that most of this dark matter must be large bodies like black holes and brown dwarf stars.  Those move slow and heavy like actual matter we can see. 

 

But remember, to explain the lensing we see, dark matter has to make up 80% or more of all light-bending matter in the universe, so if dark matter were large bodies like black holes and brown dwarf stars, and there were at least four times more of this stuff than there is actual visible matter, we should expect to see bizarre and inexplicable perturbations of practically all stars in the universe.  These objects would be whipping stars back and forth all over the place.  But we don't see that either.  We see perturbations in stars that are consistent with much smaller planets orbiting them.  So this dark matter is not only bizarre because of its invisibility, it's bizarre because it moves like big dense visible bodies, but doesn't interact with any visible big dense visible bodies.  How can matter bend light without affecting the movement of other matter?

 

I've also never heard an explanation as to how dark matter would have to be distributed such that the outermost arms of galaxies would spin faster than the inner bands, as if everything were on a fixed point on a big disk and the disk were spinning.  Imagine if a year on Neptune was the same length as a year on Mercury.    How would dark matter have to be distributed around our solar system to explain that?  That's what galaxies are like, because that's how we observe them spinning.  And if dark matter is ubiqutious and makes up 80% of all matter, why doesn't our solar system spin in a remotely similar way as this?

 

StweRMU.gif

 

I'm not really trying to argue with you per se, just explaining how implausible all of this seems to me.

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13 minutes ago, Neomalthusian said:

It is when there's zero physical evidence of it.  

 

You're affirming the consequent.  There's no physical evidence for dark matter.

Other than the fact that you can see how it warping space-time, just like black holes do.  If looking at the direct effects of it is "no physical evidence" then I guess there's "no physical evidence.

 

Oddly, you've asked a question that pre-supposes the opposite of the facts.  The rotation of galaxies is one of the strongest evidences for dark matter.

 

Quote

The strongest supportive evidence for dark matter contents is in the local Universe. The rate of rotation of spiral galaxies can be used to infer the mass enclosed within that galaxy. The velocity of the stars and gas of a galaxy expressed as a function of the radius of the spiral is known as the rotation curve.

If there were no dark matter, the rotation curve would agree with predictions made from the stars and gas. The diagram below shows the measured rotation curve of the spiral galaxy NCG 1560. The contributions to the velocities made by the total mass of both gas and stars are insufficient to explain the total rotation curve.

https://medium.com/predict/dark-matter-what-we-know-and-how-we-know-it-c6d5a92702c6

 

Quote

The presence of dark matter has been inferred by its gravitational effects as detailed above, but the need for a new form of matter rather than a revision to our current understanding is provided by observations of the galaxy cluster 1EO657–558 or the Bullet Cluster.

 

So if you want to jump in there and start arguing with the astrophysicists, I say more power to you.  I can't do that math.  I dropped out of Calc III because the teacher was an absolute zombie and I never felt the need to go back.  Let us know when we can check out your papers online.

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2 hours ago, splunch said:

The effects MATTER has on space-time.

 

Matter is not an imaginary concept.  Not even matter with properties we do not fully understand is an imaginary concept.  Matter with properties we do not understand clearly exists, and it is bending light.  We can SEE that.  We're not INVENTING IT.  It is most definitely there.

 

Whatever it is.  

You are wrong.  Matter does not bend light.  Matter bends the space through which light travels.

 

However, there are other things that actually do "bend" light....can you name one?

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3 minutes ago, Skans said:

You are wrong.  Matter does not bend light.  Matter bends the space through which light travels.

 

However, there are other things that actually do "bend" light....can you name one?

Your warped mind?

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2 minutes ago, splunch said:

Your warped mind?

I am quite flattered, but no, I cannot bend light with my mind.  Try a glass prism!  Or water!  Could there be something "out there" that is bending, or diverting light more like a prism or something of that nature?

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