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According to a Kaiser poll 81% of Democrats favor "Medicare for all," single-payer healthcare, along with 60% of Independents and almost a third of Republicans. And for good reason: virtually every country in the developed world provides better access.

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19 minutes ago, merrill said:

 

I want my tax dollars being spent more efficiently and effectively for my health care. Tax dollar supported health insurance = everyone is paying because everyone pays taxes somehow.

So do you want your tax dollars be given to people in the country illegally?

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13 minutes ago, Z09 said:

So do you want your tax dollars be given to people in the country illegally?

 

Make no mistake about it all in this country are paying taxes somehow maybe it is sales taxes, social security taxes and Medicare taxes etc etc etc. 

 

I want my tax dollars paying for health care for everyone who needs healthcare just as other countries do ......... leads to a more productive lifestyle.

 

Absolutely = I want my tax dollars being spent more efficiently and effectively for my health care. Tax dollar supported health insurance = everyone is paying because everyone pays taxes somehow.

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11 hours ago, merrill said:

Here are 10 great reasons to support IMPROVED Medicare Single Payer Insurance:

 

1. Everybody In, Nobody Out. Universal means access to health care for everyone, period.  Plus it is estimated to create 2.6 million new jobs!

 

2. Portability. If you are unemployed, or lose or change jobs, your health coverage stays with you.

 

3. Uniform Benefits. No Cadillac plans for the wealthy and Pinto plans for everyone else, with high deductibles, limited services, caps on payments for care, and no protection in the event of a catastrophe. One level of comprehensive care for everyone, regardless of the size of your wallet.

 

4. Prevention. By removing financial roadblocks, a universal health system encourages preventive care that lowers an individual's ultimate cost and pain and suffering when problems are neglected and societal cost in the over-utilization of emergency rooms or the spread of communicable diseases.

 

5. Choice. Most private insurance restricts your choice of providers and hospitals. Under the U.S. National Health Insurance Act, patients have a choice, and the provider is assured a fair payment.

 

6. No Interference with Care. Caregivers and patients regain their autonomy to decide what's best for a patient's health, not what's dictated by the billing department. No denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions or cancellation of policies for "unreported" minor health problems.

 

7. Reducing Waste. One third of every private health insurance dollar goes for paperwork and profits, compared to about 3% under Medicare, the federal government’s universal system for senior citizen healthcare.

 

8. Cost Savings. A guaranteed health care system can produce the cost savings needed to cover everyone, largely by using existing resources without the waste. Taiwan, shifting from a U.S. private health care model, adopted a similar system in 1995, boosting health coverage from 57% to 97% with little increase in overall health care spending.

 

 

9. Common Sense Budgeting. The public system sets fair reimbursements applied equally to all providers, private and public, while assuring that appropriate health care is delivered, and uses its clout to negotiate volume discounts for prescription drugs and medical equipment.

 

10. Public Oversight. The public sets the policies and administers the system, not high priced CEOs meeting in private and making decisions based on their company’s stock performance needs.

 

 

Medicare for ALL is excellent use of tax dollars and the icing on the cake is these tax dollars come back to we taxpayers in our communities to pay our medical bills. Not only that when people change jobs, get laid off, get fired or whatever they still have health care services = health care providers keep getting paid...... what's wrong with this? Nothing.

 

 

FYI:

According to HR 676 Universal Single Payer Insurance for ALL would cover every person for all necessary medical care 24/7 to include:

     

Wellness /prescription drugs / hospital / surgical / outpatient services /  primary and

preventive care / emergency services / dental / mental health / home health / physical therapy / rehabilitation (including for substance abuse) / vision care /  hearing services including hearing aids / chiropractic / medical equipment / palliative care / long term care

 

No deductibles / No Co-pays

 

The above is not free medical care just merely using our tax dollars more efficiently and effectively.

 

https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

 

I want my tax dollars being spent more efficiently and effectively for my health care. Tax dollar supported health insurance = everyone is paying because everyone pays taxes somehow.

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4 minutes ago, merrill said:

 

Make no mistake about it all in this country are paying taxes somehow maybe it is sales taxes, social security taxes and Medicare taxes etc etc etc. 

 

I want my tax dollars paying for health care for everyone who needs healthcare just as other countries do ......... leads to a more productive lifestyle.

 

Absolutely = I want my tax dollars being spent more efficiently and effectively for my health care. Tax dollar supported health insurance = everyone is paying because everyone pays taxes somehow.

Do you want people in this country illegally to get free healthcare?

 

Yes or no

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7 minutes ago, Z09 said:

Do you want people in this country illegally to get free healthcare?

 

Yes or no

 

If everyone is paying taxes how can health care be free? YOU are being dumb.

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According to a Kaiser poll 81% of Democrats favor "Medicare for all," single-payer healthcare, along with 60% of Independents and almost a third of Republicans. And for good reason: virtually every country in the developed world provides better access.

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1 minute ago, merrill said:

 

If everyone is paying taxes how can health care be free? YOU are being dumb.

Do you want people in this country illegally to get free healthcare?

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12 hours ago, merrill said:

According to a Kaiser poll 81% of Democrats favor "Medicare for all," single-payer healthcare, along with 60% of Independents and almost a third of Republicans. And for good reason: virtually every country in the developed world provides better access to healthcare at half the cost using a single-payer system.

 

Fear mongering that single payer will cut into working families' incomes through tax hikes is disingenuous, because single payer replaces sky-rocketing insurance premiums, deductibles, and co-payments. A single payer system creates savings by cutting out for-profit middlemen and eliminating administrative waste, creating exactly the relief for working and middle-class families that AMERICA champions.

 

BECAUSE EVERYONE PAYS INTO THE SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM NO ONE IS PAYING MORE TO COVER THE COST FOR THOSE  WHO CANNOT AFFORD THE MEDICAL INSURANCE INDUSTRY. THIS IS A FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE APPROACH.

 

I am for IMPROVED Medicare Single Payer Insurance for ALL .   My tax dollars being spent on my health care is better than my tax dollars funding the USA war machine, subsidizing the oil industry, subsidizing pro sports, subsidizing local builders and developers thus the real estate industries, subsidizing tax breaks of all sorts and funding the annual raise of legislators pay etc etc etc.

 

https://www.healthcare-now.org/docs/spreport.pdf

 

I want my tax dollars being spent more efficiently and effectively for my health care. Tax dollar supported health insurance = everyone is paying because everyone pays taxes somehow.

 

 

 

How would IMPROVED Medicare Insurance For All help?

 

IMPROVED Medicare For All Insurance establishes an American-styled national health insurance program. The bill would create a publicly financed, privately delivered health care program that uses the already existing Medicare program by expanding and improving it to all U.S. residents, and all residents living in U.S. territories.

 

The goal of the legislation is to ensure that all Americans, guaranteed by law, will have access to the highest quality and cost effective health care services regardless of ones employment, income, or health care status.

 

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1 hour ago, JaySolo said:

 

So your saying laws have no reasoning behind them, right?

 

It's illegal to murder someone only because it's the law, right?

 

It's illegal to steal only because it's  the law, right?

wrong.  right.  right.

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1 hour ago, Z09 said:

Doesn't the "law" also say they can't receive welfare benefits?

 

Thank God for those laws huh?

no... the law says they can, in fact, get certain benefits...

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16 minutes ago, merrill said:

 

If everyone is paying taxes how can health care be free? YOU are being dumb.

+10

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5 hours ago, maineman said:

You just spew unsupportable bullshit opinions and NEVER back them up with anything other than more of your pompous tired bullshit...that's the game that YOU play, elton johnson.

 

Run along now.

He never makes sense. 

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35 minutes ago, maineman said:

wrong.  right.  right.

 

Your tap dancing way to hard. It reveals that--rather thaan admit the obvious--your trying to bull your way out the corner you painted yourself in.

 

So, since you agree there is reasoning behind laws, what would the reasoning be behind allowing non-citizens to collect social security, but refusing to allow some illegals to do the same?

 

Could it be, perhaps, that social security has certain qualification and illegals don't meet those qualification.

 

You know, qualifications like having a valid social security number (one not made up or stolen).

 

Surely, your dad, crackerjack lawyer he was, explained when you go before the law, you do it with "clean hands." In other words, not breaking laws yourself. For example, if you get ripped off buying illegal drugs from a pusher you have no legal recourse as you shouldn't have been buying illegal drugs to begin with.

 

Or, put another way,

 

Don't enter the country illegally, steal someone's identity, defraud your employer, defraud social security, and then think you have the right to whine and cry about all the money you have no right to collect (as you had it put into either a bogus accout, the account of the person's identity you stole, or the account of the dead person whose SSN you stole).

 

It's like depositing money in another  person's account and crying when you can't withdraw it.

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18 minutes ago, JaySolo said:

 

Your tap dancing way to hard. It reveals that--rather thaan admit the obvious--your trying to bull your way out the corner you painted yourself in.

 

So, since you agree there is reasoning behind laws, what would the reasoning be behind allowing non-citizens to collect social security, but refusing to allow some illegals to do the same?

 

Could it be, perhaps, that social security has certain qualification and illegals don't meet those qualification.

 

You know, qualifications like having a valid social security number (one not made up or stolen).

 

Surely, your dad, crackerjack lawyer he was, explained when you go before the law, you do it with "clean hands." In other words, not breaking laws yourself. For example, if you get ripped off buying illegal drugs from a pusher you have no legal recourse as you shouldn't have been buying illegal drugs to begin with.

 

Or, put another way,

 

Don't enter the country illegally, steal someone's identity, defraud your employer, defraud social security, and then think you have the right to whine and cry about all the money you have no right to collect (as you had it put into either a bogus accout, the account of the person's identity you stole, or the account of the dead person whose SSN you stole).

 

It's like depositing money in another account a crying when you can't withdraw it.

you're  really not as smart as you think you are Jayboy....

 

It IS illegal to murder someone ONLY because it is the law.  The LAW is what makes it illegal.

 

It is WRONG to murder for a variety of moral, ethical, societal reasons, but it is illegal ONLY because the law says so.

 

I have never once heard an illegal immigrant whine about  the money taken out of their paychecks for government programs they will never have the opportunity to benefit from.  Not once.

 

I have no idea how we can stop the families escaping the extreme danger of Central America... they are coming here - tired, poor, huddled masses and they are, no doubt, yearning to breathe free.... to merely stay alive.  I say welcome them, because that is what happened when our ancestors came here from Ireland or Germany or wherever.  

 

I have an easy idea how to stop Mexicans coming to America for the comparatively enormous wages they can make here:  throw the people that hire them in prison and throw away the fucking key... put the head of Koch Foods, Joseph Grendys in prison for a decade..... and do it to three or four other high profile employers of cheap illegal labor, the jobs will dry up and the Mexicans will go home and make a less lucrative living there.

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13 hours ago, merrill said:

 

All disabled vets will love health insurance for all because all disabled vets will be able to be seen by any clinic in the USA.

 

As for wait times everyone in the USA waits for their next appointment OR patients can walk into their doctor's office anytime and wait to be worked in .......

 

As usual the profiteers are standing by to offer misinformation galore ........ profits before health care is sick.

What was the last SUCCESSFUL venture such as this that the Government was responsible for?

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1 minute ago, Giujo said:

What was the last SUCCESSFUL venture such as this that the Government was responsible for?

social security seems to be working fine....

 

and don't forget about the sign at one of your tea bagger rallies in 2010:  "Keep your socialist hands off my medicare"

 

and like I said, I fucking LOVE TRICARE for Life!

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11 hours ago, WillFranklin said:

 

You realize you are arguing against our current system, right Guido?

 I'm arguing against government-run Healthcare... Just like the VA

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1 minute ago, Giujo said:

 I'm arguing against government-run Healthcare... Just like the VA

medicare, medicaid, tricare???

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1 minute ago, Giujo said:

 I'm arguing against government-run Healthcare... Just like the VA

 

We never tried complete government run healthcare.

 

We have a mixed system now.

 

That's why it doesn't work.

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18 minutes ago, maineman said:

you're  really not as smart as you think you are Jayboy....

 

You seem a bit confused , comrade. YOUR the one that has to keep bragging about how smart he is, hoping somone will believe it.

 

Me? I don't care one way or the other what anyone here thinks.

 

18 minutes ago, maineman said:

 

It IS illegal to murder someone ONLY because it is the law.  The LAW is what makes it illegal.

 

It is WRONG to murder for a variety of moral, ethical, societal reasons, but it is illegal ONLY because the law says so.

 

And what, pray tell, do you think laws are based off of? Religious text.

 

18 minutes ago, maineman said:

 

I have never once heard an illegal immigrant whine about  the money taken out of their paychecks for government programs they will never have the opportunity to benefit from.  Not once.

 

Why should they, they got you d-baggers to do it for them. Or have you forgotten what started this whole segment already?

 

18 minutes ago, maineman said:

 

I have no idea how we can stop the families escaping the extreme danger of Central America... they are coming here - tired, poor, huddled masses and they are, no doubt, yearning to breathe free.... to merely stay alive.  I say welcome them, because that is what happened when our ancestors came here from Ireland or Germany or wherever.  

 

I have an easy idea how to stop Mexicans coming to America for the comparatively enormous wages they can make here:  throw the people that hire them in prison and throw away the fucking key... put the head of Koch Foods, Joseph Grendys in prison for a decade..... and do it to three or four other high profile employers of cheap illegal labor, the jobs will dry up and the Mexicans will go home and make a less lucrative living there.

 

So now that we can't get guilt to work, let's try an emotional appeal/

 

You bull jive appeal would work a little better if it wasn't for the fact that only one of ten asylum seekers are granted asylum. The other nine are here looking for the same thing the Mexicans are: a better paycheck.

 

Give us your tired your poor? Just where is that in the constitution, Brainiac?  Or are you telling me we're using poems written on statues as immigration policy now?

 

You know, my family came her about the turn of the century. Before they entered the country they had to have a sponsor here and  a trade to support them.

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7 minutes ago, JaySolo said:

 

You seem a bit confused , comrade. YOUR the one that has to keep bragging about how smart he is, hoping somone will believe it.

 

Me? I don't care one way or the other what anyone here thinks.

 

 

And what, pray tell, do you think laws are based off of? Religious text.

 

 

Why should they, they got you d-baggers to do it for them. Or have you forgotten what started this whole segment already?

 

 

So now that we can't get guilt to work, let's try an emotional appeal/

 

You bull jive appeal would work a little better if it wasn't for the fact that only one of ten asylum seekers are granted asylum. The other nine are here looking for the same thing the Mexicans are: a better paycheck.

 

Give us your tired your poor? Just where is that in the constitution, Brainiac?  Or are you telling me we're using poems written on statues as immigration policy now?

 

You know, my family came her about the turn of the century. Before they entered the country they had to have a sponsor here and  a trade to support them.

I think laws are based on a variety of things.... The Ten Commandments, Hammurabi's Code... English Common Law.... etc, etc.  

I am not whining for the wages that illegals give up in the least... I merely point them out to show that, as I posted earlier :

Both documented and undocumented immigrants pay more into public benefit programs than they take out. According to Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, undocumented immigrants contribute an estimated $11.74 billion to state and local economies each year. However, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for many of the federal or state benefits that their tax dollars help fund.

Additionally, a few states have completed studies demonstrating that immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in government services and benefits. A study in Arizona found that the state’s immigrants generate $2.4 billion in tax revenue per year, which more than offsets the $1.4 billion in their use of benefit programs. Another study in Florida estimated that, on a per capita basis, immigrants in the state pay nearly $1,500 more in taxes per capita than they receive in public benefits.

 

And Emma Lazarus's poem isn't in the constitution.... but it is a part of our national legacy.  My paternal grandmother came over from Ireland in 1891 as a three year old.  She was processed through Ellis Island under the shadow of the newly acquired statue.  I am certainly glad they didn't turn my great grandparents away.

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8 hours ago, maineman said:

I think laws are based on a variety of things.... The Ten Commandments, Hammurabi's Code... English Common Law.... etc, etc.  

 

 You don't think the Catholic Church and later the Episcopal Church had no influence in drafting English Common Law?

 

As far as Hammurabi's Code goes:

 

The code existed in the same region as Mosaic Law and even has an "eye for an eye" clause. You think Mosaic Law influenced Hammurabi's Law?

 

Like I said, most legal text can be tracked back to religious text.

 

Quote

I am not whining for the wages that illegals give up in the least...

 

Oh really?

 

 

Then it wasn't you that wrote:

 

do you favor illegals contributing funds to the social security system that they can never recover?

 

on page one of this thread.

 

Quote

 

I merely point them out to show that, as I posted earlier :

Both documented and undocumented immigrants pay more into public benefit programs than they take out. According to Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, undocumented immigrants contribute an estimated $11.74 billion to state and local economies each year. However, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for many of the federal or state benefits that their tax dollars help fund.

Additionally, a few states have completed studies demonstrating that immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in government services and benefits. A study in Arizona found that the state’s immigrants generate $2.4 billion in tax revenue per year, which more than offsets the $1.4 billion in their use of benefit programs. Another study in Florida estimated that, on a per capita basis, immigrants in the state pay nearly $1,500 more in taxes per capita than they receive in public benefits.

 

Well, the obvious answer is enter the country legally, get in line with everyone else, get a valid social security card and number, then you can collect more of what you put into the system.

 

You want to talk about fairness? Wht about all those people who are legally trying to get into the country? Do they deserve having one group of people cutting in line by hopping the fence?  Where's your faux outrage there?

 

Quote

 

And Emma Lazarus's poem isn't in the constitution.... but it is a part of our national legacy.  My paternal grandmother came over from Ireland in 1891 as a three year old.  She was processed through Ellis Island under the shadow of the newly acquired statue.  I am certainly glad they didn't turn my great grandparents away.

 

Still with the poor attempt at tugging the heart strings, eh? We'll, if it's all you got...

 

Your argument here falls  flat. Both our families entered the country legally,  they didn't hop the fence.

 

Or to put it another way:

 

As Wayne Rodgers used to say, "When you start the sentence with illegal, you've lost the argument."

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2 hours ago, JaySolo said:

 

 You don't think the Catholic Church and later the Episcopal Church had no influence in drafting English Common Law?

 

As far as Hammurabi's Code goes:

 

The code existed in the same region as Mosaic Law and even has an "eye for an eye" clause. You think Mosaic Law influenced Hammurabi's Law?

 

Like I said, most legal text can be tracked back to religious text.

 

 

Oh really?

 

 

Then it wasn't you that wrote:

 

do you favor illegals contributing funds to the social security system that they can never recover?

 

on page one of this thread.

 

 

Well, the obvious answer is enter the country legally, get in line with everyone else, get a valid social security card and number, then you can collect more of what you put into the system.

 

You want to talk about fairness? Wht about all those people who are legally trying to get into the country? Do they deserve having one group of people cutting in line by hopping the fence?  Where's your faux outrage there?

 

 

Still with the poor attempt at tugging the heart strings, eh? We'll, if it's all you got...

 

Your argument here falls  flat. Both our families entered the country legally,  they didn't hop the fence.

 

Or to put it another way:

 

As Wayne Rodgers used to say, "When you start the sentence with illegal, you've lost the argument."

Regarding your stupid question about the sources of law and the Catholic and Episcopal churches.... do you KNOW what "etc., etc." actually means????

 

My pointing out that illegals pay into a system they never can use is not "whining"... it is merely noting the fact.  It's no skin off my nose... the fact remains that illegal immigrants put more into the coffers of our social programs than they take out.  

 

And they do the jobs that nobody wants to do.  When was the last time you heard a caucasian American citizen say, "I used to have  a great job picking fruit until some wetback came and stole it" , or   "All my life, all I ever wanted to do was to grow up and change the dirty sheets in hotel rooms.... Maria from Juarez took my dream from me"???

 

And as long as we do nothing to the employers who remain addicted to cheap labor, the problem will not go away.

 

And the problem will NOT go away because the powers that be don't WANT to wean themselves off of cheap labor... they just want YOU to think that they are trying to... but they're not.

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2 hours ago, maineman said:

Regarding your stupid question about the sources of law and the Catholic and Episcopal churches.... do you KNOW what "etc., etc." actually means????

 

I know what "etc., etc" generally means. However, since your always lecturing on how you write with precision then lay out vague terms I often find myselff having to interpret.

 

For example, in this case, you mean: "I either didn't realize the two examples I gave (English Common Law and Hammurabi's Code) were derived from religious text or , refusing to admit you were right, I thought I'd throw you a curve. But you showed me even my examples were tied to religious text, so scambling, as I always do when someone sees through my bull, I figured I'd cover my bases by claiming "etc, etc" hid the agreement."

 

If not, why not just say, "Yes, most laws trace back to religious text."

 

2 hours ago, maineman said:

 

And they do the jobs that nobody wants to do.

 

Naiveté is not a good look on you.

 

2 hours ago, maineman said:

 When was the last time you heard a caucasian American citizen say, "I used to have  a great job picking fruit until some wetback came and stole it" , or   "All my life, all I ever wanted to do was to grow up and change the dirty sheets in hotel rooms.... Maria from Juarez took my dream from me"???

 

Having lived more than twice as long in Florida as you did in Mexico, let me clue you in on a little fact. Go to any construction site in Florida,  check out the workers. Now tell mee construction is a job Americans don't want to do.

 

2 hours ago, maineman said:

 

And as long as we do nothing to the employers who remain addicted to cheap labor, the problem will not go away.

 

And the problem will NOT go away because the powers that be don't WANT to wean themselves off of cheap labor... they just want YOU to think that they are trying to... but they're not.

 

Something like you want me to think your concerned about illegals wanting a better life...but your not. Your only concerned with the votes.

 

 

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I think that Hammurabi might have influenced Mosaic Law, but certainly not the other way around.... the former was about 300 years older than the latter.

 

I think working up on the roof of a new construction home in the middle of July in Florida is NOT a job that it sought after by a lot of Americans.... and my two examples you just ignored.  Why IS that?  Would YOU want to change dirty sheets at a Motel 6?  Would you want to pick fruit all day long in the hot sun?  I'm guessing not.

 

I don't want illegal immigrants voting in our elections. 

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