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How Does Germany's "Free University" Work?

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Free education leads to irrelevant courses, hopelessly overcrowded public universities, and a drop-out rate of about 30%.

 

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Another reason for the lack of skilled labour in Germany is the reluctance of school-leavers to take advantage of the admirable dual-education system, and instead enroll at a university (“Opening up a crack”, May 18th). The problem is that every pupil who has passed the school-leaving exam, the Abitur, has the constitutional right to a place at university, even if he or she has to wait some semesters and has no real academic inclinations or talents. The result is a proliferation of abstruse and socially irrelevant courses, a drop-out rate of about 30% (a shocking waste of human and financial resources) and the lack of skilled workers you mentioned. 

 

Having spent 20 years as a lecturer, I can testify to the often poor quality of students at hopelessly overcrowded public universities and the high quality of those at private institutions, which have strict admission requirements. But in our modern, democratic society everybody is at least a manager and selection is frowned upon. That attitude is leading to big problems for the German economy.

 

 

It's too bad liberals can't learn from Germany's mistake. 

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I checked on this.  This is a blog.  I googled the name of the author, Roger Graves, who claims to have 20 years experience teaching in Germany.  Absolutely nothing.  If he was anywhere in the education system; he would have a biography.

 

Here is another fascinating opinion from this blog:

 

https://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-era-of-drama-queens-every-crisis-is.html

 

The Era of the Drama Queens: Every Crisis Is a Triumph

 

We live in hard times. [Re-posted — because of eternal relevancy.] This is a hard, hard time for the Republic.

We live in the era of the Drama Queen.

We have been digging ourselves deeper and deeper into that era for the past fifty years.

[Update: thanks for the the links, Ed Driscoll and Bird Dog]

Leftists are drama queens. Leftists constantly erupting in hysterics — male (girly men?) or female — rule the roost.

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LoreD can't debate facts.  Never can. 

Germany's "free" education is a nightmare for the country, but liberals here think they can do better, if they just throw more money at the issue. 

 

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Just now, Golfboy said:

LoreD can't debate facts.  Never can. 

Germany's "free" education is a nightmare for the country, but liberals here think they can do better, if they just throw more money at the issue. 

 

 

I'm just a fact checker.

 

Find Roger Graves.  I can't check the facts of a man who doesn't seem to exist.

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34 minutes ago, LoreD said:

 

I'm just a fact checker.

 

Find Roger Graves.  I can't check the facts of a man who doesn't seem to exist.

And yet you found nothing to rebut the facts you were shown.  

As always.

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I can tell you exactly how it works, one of my best friends kid went to Germany ( Berlin) international student

 

Its not free, well compared to us its free, there are costs added on , depending on the university.

Most charges a "semester fee" with that fee you get a transportation card, which I found interesting, you can use any public transit for free, trains, buses 

but not taxi or uber.

 

He had to pay for a language course, got to learn German, although some of his classes were taught in English

 

He had to rent, he rented a tiny room 240 euros a month, included internet and heating but if he was over the usage allowed he had to make up the difference

he had to pay copying paper fee.


So not exactly free, but way cheaper than america

 

Why they offer this to international student is they hope after graduation most stays and 40% does so Germany recoups the cost because Germans pay higher taxes than us here.

pretty smart.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Golfboy said:

And yet you found nothing to rebut the facts you were shown.  

As always.

 

Knowing, as little that you can know anything,  that education diminishes gullibility, you are anti-education.  You would prefer that the uneducated to believe the anti-American untruths that Der Trumpkopfk regularly spews ...  As well as his bought and paid for Republican stooges.

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9 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

Knowing, as little that you can know anything,  that education diminishes gullibility, you are anti-education.  You would prefer that the uneducated to believe the anti-American untruths that Der Trumpkopfk regularly spews ...  As well as his bought and paid for Republican stooges.

Anti-education? 🤣 No. We expect people who want education to actually PAY for it. 

 

Why would  I want to devalue education by making it available to everyone? Did you not READ this is exactly what happened in Germany????

 

Just like people have told you MORONS here? 

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12 minutes ago, DeepBreath said:

Anti-education? 🤣 No. We expect people who want education to actually PAY for it. 

 

Why would  I want to devalue education by making it available to everyone? Did you not READ this is exactly what happened in Germany????

 

Just like people have told you MORONS here? 

Again you have no clue what you are talking about. 

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17 hours ago, bludog said:

 

Knowing, as little that you can know anything,  that education diminishes gullibility, you are anti-education.  You would prefer that the uneducated to believe the anti-American untruths that Der Trumpkopfk regularly spews ...  As well as his bought and paid for Republican stooges.

I've received more education than you.  

 

It's amazing how ignorant liberals are about simple market forces. 

Give away free stuff, and you create demand and a shortage.   

This is what Germany has done. 

 

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21 hours ago, Golfboy said:

"Stocks dropped sharply Wednesday after the bond market sent a recession signal and the German and Chinese economy reported weaker than expected economic data."

 

 

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22 hours ago, Golfboy said:

Another reason for the lack of skilled labour in Germany is the reluctance of school-leavers to take advantage of the admirable dual-education system, and instead enroll at a university (“Opening up a crack”, May 18th). The problem is that every pupil who has passed the school-leaving exam, the Abitur, has the constitutional right to a place at university, even if he or she has to wait some semesters and has no real academic inclinations or talents. The result is a proliferation of abstruse and socially irrelevant courses, a drop-out rate of about 30% (a shocking waste of human and financial resources) and the lack of skilled workers you mentioned. 

 

Having spent 20 years as a lecturer, I can testify to the often poor quality of students at hopelessly overcrowded public universities and the high quality of those at private institutions, which have strict admission requirements. But in our modern, democratic society everybody is at least a manager and selection is frowned upon. That attitude is leading to big problems for the German economy.

 

We have a higher college dropout rate than Germany.

 

Our dropout rate is 40%.

 

Graduation rates

Question:
What are the graduation rates for students obtaining a bachelor's degree?

 

Response:

The 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began seeking a bachelor’s degree at 4-year degree-granting institutions in fall 2011 overall was 60 percent. That is, by 2017 some 60 percent of students had completed a bachelor’s degree at the same institution where they started in 2011. The 6-year graduation rate was 60 percent at public institutions, 66 percent at private nonprofit institutions, and 21 percent at private for-profit institutions. The overall 6-year graduation rate was 63 percent for females and 57 percent for males; it was higher for females than for males at both public (62 vs. 57 percent) and private nonprofit (69 vs. 63 percent) institutions. However, at private for-profit institutions, males had a higher 6-year graduation rate than females (22 vs. 20 percent)

 

 

 

 

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics. (2019). The Condition of Education 2019 (NCES 2019-144), Undergraduate Retention and Graduation Rates.

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4 minutes ago, LoreD said:

 

We have a higher college dropout rate than Germany.

 

Our dropout rate is 40%.

 

Graduation rates

Question:
What are the graduation rates for students obtaining a bachelor's degree?

 

Response:

The 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began seeking a bachelor’s degree at 4-year degree-granting institutions in fall 2011 overall was 60 percent. That is, by 2017 some 60 percent of students had completed a bachelor’s degree at the same institution where they started in 2011. The 6-year graduation rate was 60 percent at public institutions, 66 percent at private nonprofit institutions, and 21 percent at private for-profit institutions. The overall 6-year graduation rate was 63 percent for females and 57 percent for males; it was higher for females than for males at both public (62 vs. 57 percent) and private nonprofit (69 vs. 63 percent) institutions. However, at private for-profit institutions, males had a higher 6-year graduation rate than females (22 vs. 20 percent)

 

 

 

 

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics. (2019). The Condition of Education 2019 (NCES 2019-144), Undergraduate Retention and Graduation Rates.

 

Once again LoreD has no idea what she's talking about. 

Germany has a low rate of students going to university, and a MUCH lower graduation rate.

Quote

 

According to the OECD, 53 percent of young German nationals entered a tertiary education program in 2013, compared to an average of 60 percent among OECD member states.

 

And their graduation rate?  Pathetic. 

Only 35 percent of all first-time tertiary German students (excluding foreign students) actually graduated with a degree, placing Germany in the third to last place in one 2015 OECD report.

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Golfboy said:

It's too bad liberals can't learn from Germany's mistake. 

 

Learn from it???

 

Hell, these SCHITSTAINS PRAISE their failures as "look what the world does and we don't".

 

Haven't you learned that WITHOUT VICTIMS of their own making, they have NOTHING to win with or run on.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

the real issue with American higher education is that loans are too easy to acquire and there is a social attitude about always having to get the degree even if you truly do not care about it.

Yep, the government is in bed with the university system.

They dangle loans to kids who need the education, and funnel the money DIRECTLY to the university.

And then they make the loans permanent, so even if a kid declares bankruptcy, the student loans don't go away.

 

Oh yea, and don't forget that Obama took over the student loan industry, so the government owns it. 

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41 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Nothing is free if you think broadly enough. 

 What about the free section on Graigslist? You do have to drive there to pick it up, but you also have the option to walk. You need an internet connection, not free, but you could amortize that into the cost of being on this forum.

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19 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

the real issue with American higher education is that loans are too easy to acquire and there is a social attitude about always having to get the degree even if you truly do not care about it.

As an educator for over 40 years, there are two types of students: those who actually enjoy learning and want to learn for it's own sake, and those that just want a good grade so they can graduate. Lamentably, most students are of the second type. If you have no intellectual curiosity, you are fit only for drudge jobs. There are a lot of drudge jobs. My best students tended to be from the British Caribbean: St Kitts-Nevis,   Antigua, The Bahamas, the Caymans,. Trinidad-Tobago, Barbados and the British and US Virgin islands. I also had a number of good students from Haiti, especially those that completed HS in Port au Prince and Le Cap. I had one student from Bulgaria that outshone them all.

There were, o0f course, some excellent students from the US as well, but the percentage of good students among them was a lot lower.

The British Caribbean offered scholarships to the US only to the best of their students, I understand.

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California state universities when they were first established were tuition free. You still had to pay for your books and anything else related to your classes. Housing in my understanding was not free. Back then nobody from China, India, or Omaha Nebraska would even consider coming to California for a college education. There's a reason why they come here. My belief is that anyone born in California should be able to go to any state college tuition free. Charge the living shlt out of anyone else.

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5 hours ago, LoreD said:

 

We have a higher college dropout rate than Germany.

 

Our dropout rate is 40%.

 

Graduation rates

Question:
What are the graduation rates for students obtaining a bachelor's degree?

 

Response:

The 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began seeking a bachelor’s degree at 4-year degree-granting institutions in fall 2011 overall was 60 percent. That is, by 2017 some 60 percent of students had completed a bachelor’s degree at the same institution where they started in 2011. The 6-year graduation rate was 60 percent at public institutions, 66 percent at private nonprofit institutions, and 21 percent at private for-profit institutions. The overall 6-year graduation rate was 63 percent for females and 57 percent for males; it was higher for females than for males at both public (62 vs. 57 percent) and private nonprofit (69 vs. 63 percent) institutions. However, at private for-profit institutions, males had a higher 6-year graduation rate than females (22 vs. 20 percent)

 

 

 

 

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics. (2019). The Condition of Education 2019 (NCES 2019-144), Undergraduate Retention and Graduation Rates.

Except ours drop out mostly  due to cost. Why do Germans drop out since they aren’t paying for it, moron? 

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17 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

As an educator for over 40 years, there are two types of students: those who actually enjoy learning and want to learn for it's own sake, and those that just want a good grade so they can graduate. Lamentably, most students are of the second type. If you have no intellectual curiosity, you are fit only for drudge jobs. There are a lot of drudge jobs. My best students tended to be from the British Caribbean: St Kitts-Nevis,   Antigua, The Bahamas, the Caymans,. Trinidad-Tobago, Barbados and the British and US Virgin islands. I also had a number of good students from Haiti, especially those that completed HS in Port au Prince and Le Cap. I had one student from Bulgaria that outshone them all.

There were, o0f course, some excellent students from the US as well, but the percentage of good students among them was a lot lower.

The British Caribbean offered scholarships to the US only to the best of their students, I understand.

The second category should include those who only want to get the degree for the sake of getting the job. Those students are the ones who will view the 4 years as necessary rather than enjoyable. Therefore, they simply want it over with and assume that the investment in time/money/energy will be worth it. They are the ones that will take out the student loans and not really care about the cost. 

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17 hours ago, JeanMoulin said:

 What about the free section on Graigslist? You do have to drive there to pick it up, but you also have the option to walk. You need an internet connection, not free, but you could amortize that into the cost of being on this forum.

It takes time and/or energy to acquire anything. Even walking, you burned calories and it took time. Time that you could have spent doing something else... it's called opportunity cost. 

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