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Renegade

Student Debt Relief

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There are a lot of different forms 'student debt relief' could take.  There are proposals ranging from lower interest rates all the way to 100% cancellation of all student debt ($1.6 trillion).  It seems like the Presidential candidates are in a contest to see who can offer more.

 

The cost of education, like that of healthcare, has increased faster than the overall rate of inflation for many years.  I believe that is partly because these industries are highly resistant to technological efficiency.  While manufactured goods like pizzas, computers, and shirts are produced with ever less labor (more efficient), higher education can't do that.  The teacher to student ratio has been mostly unaffected by technology.  Colleges get a lot of grief for administrative costs or sports teams or building construction, but these things don't really add any more to the cost of an education than they did 40 years ago.  The rising cost of education isn't because colleges are doing worse.  It's because most other industries are doing better in comparison.  

 

Anyway, the 'why' isn't so important.  Whatever the reason, the fact is that student debt has ballooned (up 170% between 2004 and 2016).  Students are borrowing more and, just as important, taking longer to pay it off.   People in debt are forced to restrict their other spending.  Clearly, this is a concern for the 45 million people with student debt.   In the interest of full disclosure, I have a son-in-law with a big chunk of student debt which he and my daughter struggle even to pay the interest on.

 

Some remedies, such as allowing the debt to be refinanced at a lower interest rate or allowing the borrowers to lose this debt in bankruptcy, seem perfectly reasonable to me.  In the future, I'd love to see a system where students can go to the college that best fits their talent and interest, regardless of their parents' financial situation.  I don't know exactly how that could be done, but I suspect it would be something like free tuition at public universities.  

 

On the other hand, I don't support total forgiveness of all current student debt (the Bernie Sanders plan).   This would force those who worked their way through college to pay off the debt of those who just took out loans.  It would force those who busted their butts through difficult degrees for in-demand jobs to pay off the debt of those who majored in subjects with slim employment prospects.  It would penalize the frugal, the disciplined, and the hard working to reward those who were...less so.  

 

I know, that's the nature of a society.  The strong take care of the weak.  But, why wouldn't someone with college debt get the same safety net care that every other citizen gets?  If you have a big student loan that you can't pay off, that sucks.  It also sucks if you have a big car loan you can't pay off.  It also sucks if you have a big credit card debt or if you bought a house or speculated in the stock market.  There's an unlimited number of ways to make bad decisions that get you into debt.  I don't think college debt should be treated any differently.


Bernie says he'll pay for this by taxing financial transactions so the debt isn't transferred to those who paid their own way.  That's a distraction.  Even if this tax brings in the revenue he projects (I'd argue not), that money is then part of government funds that belong to all citizens.  It could be used for infrastructure, health care, scientific research, or an unlimited number of other worthy causes. 

The dollars used to forgive this debt would be no different than any other dollars the government spends.  

 

To me, the key question is:  why should student debt be treated differently from other consumer debt?    Is it just the lure of 45 million potential votes?

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Our Nation is far down the road to Oligarchy.  And for the majority of its citizens, the US is degenerating into a Third World country.

https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/news/study-by-mit-economist-u-s-has-regressed-to-a-third-world-nation-for-most-of-its-citizens-Sb5A5HZ1rUiXavZapos30g/

One of the root causes are large numbers of gullible, poorly educated voters.  If there is any hope of reversing course by replacing unlimited wealth accumulation, among a small few with actual progress, we will need to provide higher education for all those willing and able.

 

It could be argued that as the state of education goes, so goes the Nation.  As of now, 68% of of Americans 25 or older, lack a bachelor's degree or higher.  This goes a long way to explain why we are stuck with such a large number of corrupt and regressive lawmakers.

 

Quality education needs to be made a priority, for as much of the population as possible.  Student debt is an obstacle to a well-educated public.  As some of the most advanced and enlightened nations on Earth have discovered, tax funded public schools, at every level are fundamental to achieve that goal.   Student debt should be phased out and be replaced by tax funded public education.  Those presently saddled with excessive student debt should be supported by legislation enabling various financial solutions.

 

It is something of a conundrum that, to achieve full public education we will have to rely on a poorly educated public to elect at least two or more, back-to-back Democratic presidencies and congresses.  A sketchy proposition, at best.

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17 hours ago, bludog said:

If there is any hope of reversing course by replacing unlimited wealth accumulation, among a small few with actual progress, we will need to provide higher education for all those willing and able.

 

Agreed.  

 

16 hours ago, bludog said:

It could be argued that as the state of education goes, so goes the Nation.  As of now, 68% of of Americans 25 or older, lack a bachelor's degree or higher.  This goes a long way to explain why we are stuck with such a large number of corrupt and regressive lawmakers.

 

A larger percentage of Americans have college degrees now than at any time in our history.   I don't think 'lack of education' works as an explanation for our poor lawmakers.  Our percentage of college graduates is higher than that of Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, and France.  

 

17 hours ago, bludog said:

It is something of a conundrum that, to achieve full public education we will have to rely on a poorly educated public to elect at least two or more, back-to-back Democratic presidencies and congresses.  A sketchy proposition, at best.

 

How are we "poorly educated"?  It's certainly not a problem of quantity.  Has the quality declined?  Although our primary schools produce students with middling academic performance, we have the best secondary schools in the world.   US News

 

Anyway, my disagreement isn't about what to do about the future.  I am definitely favorable toward the more liberal approaches (such as public funding) for higher education.  My issue is with trying to make this retroactive.  A proposal like Bernie's would refund 100% of the college costs for my son-in-law while not paying my daughter a single penny.  He worked only occasionally while he was in school and his parents (who earn as much or more than I do) paid nothing.  After graduation (with massive debt), he decided he doesn't like to work in the field of his degree.

 

My daughter went to the same school.  She worked full-time year-round and took over 5 years to graduate.  I also helped.  As a result, she was able to graduate debt-free.   Now, Bernie wants to give my son-in-law a 6-figure check while my daughter wouldn't get a dime.  That makes me angry.  I don't understand why my son-in-law deserves a check and my daughter doesn't.

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Trump bragged that he "won with the "poorly educated".  It was one was one of the few times he wasn't lying.  If America's slide into regression is to be reversed, we need to encourage as many people as possible to pursue higher education.  Doing away with student debt and tuition would go a long way toward raising the number of well-educated.

 

Well educated individuals are less likely to be racist or militantly anti-immigrant.  And they are less prone to be motivated by other Right Wing wedge issues.  But the benefits of higher education don't end at politics.  A more highly educated work force advances national greatness ...  And tends to enhance personal life as well.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/11/education-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/

Quote

 

1920.jpg?1541594318

 

America Is Divided by Education

The gulf between the party identification of white voters with college degrees and those without is growing rapidly. Trump is widening it.

 

One of the most striking patterns in yesterday’s election was years in the making: a major partisan divide between white voters with a college degree and those without one.

According to exit polls, 61 percent of non-college-educated white voters cast their ballots for Republicans while just 45 percent of college-educated white voters did so. Meanwhile 53 percent of college-educated white voters cast their votes for Democrats compared with 37 percent of those without a degree.

The diploma divide, as it’s often called, is not occurring across the electorate; it is primarily a phenomenon among white voters.

- snip -

 

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19 hours ago, bludog said:

It could be argued that as the state of education goes, so goes the Nation.  As of now, 68% of of Americans 25 or older, lack a bachelor's degree or higher.  This goes a long way to explain why we are stuck with such a large number of corrupt and regressive lawmakers.

 it gets old

 

we rank in the top ten for best educated citizens in the world for some time now blue, all 10 run rough the same  65% never had a bachelor degree , some countries have had  a form of free educated we want for decades 

 

by 12th grade people had all the tools they needed to figure out what sort of return they would of had from their investment  into a higher education 

and it has been the democratic party preaching the value of said higher education that has left so many people in debt

and now they want to have us elect them to pay it off

 

 on a personal note It is a messed up day when My GED educated ass has to climb out of bed  and  head down to the voting poles to get  your highly educated  citizen out of debt

as you preach how dumb we are on a daily basis  

 

people not able to learn on their own is a failure of basic education not higher education

 

 do you hear yourself ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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So what are you arguing for?

 

I am arguing for a way to shrink the Republican base.

 

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1 minute ago, bludog said:

So what are you arguing for?

 

I am not here arguing for debate that is for sure

 

I dont know but I guess

 

training  for service positions should be almost free doctors nurses police civil servant  stuff ?  teach the words that help me better define what I want here ?

 

kids shouldn't be sleeping in cars all summer long waiting for school to open eating a bag of rice

 

learning shouldn't leave me in debt 

 

all simple stuff I know 

 

how governments elects to garner our vote by incuring debt and providing you and I with a better education are two thing that should never be combined

 

 I can not learn anything better till i pay off someone else debt  ?  the whole thing stinks

 

please express how a bachelors degree will help  me  process this idea better ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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As far as I can tell, we are in total agreement that the problems you speak of need to be fixed so that people can have better lives. 

 

I believe that as long as the Republican Party continues to dominate, those problems for ordinary people will only get worse, while the ultra rich grow even richer.    The Democratic Party, although far from perfect, will work to better the lives of ordinary and poor people. But without the presidency and without majorities in the House and Senate, there's little Democratic legislators can do.

 

There's no doubt that, on average, the more educated vote Democrat and less educated vote Republican.  (I'm not referring to you here.  I'm talking about averages).  It stands to reason that if more Americans had higher educations, Democrats would win more elections and the problems of ordinary people would take priority again in government.  We saw that happen from the Great Depression to the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980.  But as it stands now, with a Republican president and Senate, the problems of ordinary people are not being dealt with.  They are getting worse.

 

One way to grow the Democratic vote and shrink the Republican base is to get more people a higher education. To help accomplish that goal, I'm making an argument, in this thread, for free education for those willing and able;  Which would end tuition and student debt.

 

 

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2 hours ago, bludog said:

As far as I can tell, we are in total agreement that the problems you speak of need to be fixed so that people can have better lives. 

 

we do agree 

 

3 hours ago, rrober49 said:

how governments elects to garner our vote by incuring debt and providing you and I with a better education are two thing that should never be combined

 

     the problem is people  with GEDS  like me get why this is wrong  this is not how you get the results you want or expect to keep 

 

it does not take a higher education to understand what pandering for votes  is  or the examples that are out there

or what appealing to your base would mean

 

in a world of science achieving results in this manner  would not yield  meaningful positive results   and I would seek to discredit results like this as I sought better more realistic means of gaining said results 

 

I post because we disagree on exactly  what we do agree on  just like men of science would and should.

  I point to my personal education to give weight to the idea that a person can know better

 

 but back to the  heart of the topic 

 

should people be allowed to elect a body to forgive them of debt they feel they should not of  occurred ? and the answer is no ... for me I do not find that  a healthy way of dealing with problems we face financially and people en mass will not come up with viable  ways to deal with debt they obtain short of  voting in the next guy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, bludog said:

Doing away with student debt and tuition would go a long way toward raising the number of well-educated.

 

How exactly does that work?  These people (the ones with $1.6 trillion in debt) already went to college.  They're already "well-educated".  How does giving them free money make them better educated?

 

23 hours ago, bludog said:

Well educated individuals are less likely to be racist or militantly anti-immigrant.  And they are less prone to be motivated by other Right Wing wedge issues.  But the benefits of higher education don't end at politics.  A more highly educated work force advances national greatness ...  And tends to enhance personal life as well.

 

Absolutely.  This is why I'm in favor of publicly-funded education for everyone (not just the ones that borrowed money).   If Bernie was trying to refund all college costs (not just to the folks who borrowed) then he'd at least be fair.  But, even then, there's this serious problem pointed out by rrober49...

 

20 hours ago, rrober49 said:

on a personal note It is a messed up day when My GED educated ass has to climb out of bed  and  head down to the voting poles to get  your highly educated  citizen out of debt

as you preach how dumb we are on a daily basis  

 

Bernie would take funds that could go toward the least educated, lowest earning Americans and spend them on more educated higher earning Americans.  You're arguing to take money from plumbers, electricians, welders, and other middle-class high school educated people and give it to a bunch of college-educated, well-paid managers, doctors, accountants, engineers, and computer scientists. 

 

That's an extremely regressive policy and I don't support it.  

 

20 hours ago, bludog said:

So what are you arguing for?

 

I am arguing for a way to shrink the Republican base.

 

I'm arguing for what's fair and right regardless of party politics.

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On 7/29/2019 at 10:42 AM, bludog said:

Doing away with student debt and tuition would go a long way toward raising the number of well-educated.

 

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

How exactly does that work?  These people (the ones with $1.6 trillion in debt) already went to college.  They're already "well-educated".  How does giving them free money make them better educated?

 

There seems to be some confusion.  The idea is to attract more people to seek higher education by removing burdensome tuition and therefore, student debt.  Resulting in a larger percentage of the population becoming well-educated;   And a smaller percentage of the poorly educated than at present.

 

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

This is why I'm in favor of publicly-funded education for everyone

 

This is the same thing I'm advocating.  If I haven't been clear on this, let it be corrected now.

 

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

(not just the ones that borrowed money). 

 

Right.  This should be the last generation forced to go into debt to get a decent education.  I would like to see people with the most burdensome student debt receive some form of relief.

 

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

 If Bernie was trying to refund all college costs (not just to the folks who borrowed) then he'd at least be fair. 

 

Bernie advocated for free college first;  And later expanded it to erase all student debt too.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/23/18714615/bernie-sanders-free-college-for-all-2020-student-loan-deb

 

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

I'm arguing for what's fair and right regardless of party politics.

 

Most of today's Republican are all about playing dirty and abusing power.  They would eat you alive.

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/04/democrats-majority-rules-norms-trump-2020-218947

Quote

Hey Democrats, Fighting Fair Is for Suckers

Court-packing! Puerto Rican statehood! Votes for felons! Why—and how—the next Democratic majority should play dirty.

<snip>

 

As we all know, Trump and the Republican Party that enables him eat norms for breakfast. A norm is a tacit and mutual agreement that certain exercises of power, while lawful, also are unthinkable. As a result, a willingness to think the unthinkable is itself a source of power. With that willingness, you can deny a president a hearing on a Supreme Court nominee. You can threaten to jail your political opponents and call an election rigged if you don’t win. You can demand investigations of your enemies, you can fire the FBI director investigating you, and you can quite possibly pardon yourself for federal crimes.

 

<snip>

 

 

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A well educated populace is the best defense against tyranny.

 

You say "Well, what about the people who busted their butts to pay their way through college?"

This same argument can be applied to healthcare.  Usually by our Conservative friends.  It's the policy of "Screw you, I've got mine" (to put it politely).  We should help people because nobody should be in debt for getting a quality education, much like nobody should be in debt for a hospital visit.  These are things that are vital to our survival as a nation.  

 

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18 hours ago, bludog said:

There seems to be some confusion.  The idea is to attract more people to seek higher education by removing burdensome tuition and therefore, student debt.  Resulting in a larger percentage of the population becoming well-educated;   And a smaller percentage of the poorly educated than at present.

 

If that's your goal, why  give that $1.6 trillion to people who have already been to college?  Instead, give the money to those who haven't been to college yet!   If that were the case, I'd be on board 100%.  Surely that would attract more people to seek higher education, right?  I'm not disagreeing with the goal, just the method.

 

Offering free college tuition to future generations is going to be expensive.  We need that $1.6 trillion for them.

 

18 hours ago, bludog said:

I would like to see people with the most burdensome student debt receive some form of relief.

 

Why?   If it's only to encourage people to go to college, I think I've shown in the paragraph above that there's a better way to do that.

 

There's an unlimited number of ways a person can get into burdensome debt.  Why does this one group of people deserve complete relief while others get nothing?  Please re-read my description of how my son-in-law and daughter got through college and tell me why my son-in-law is deserving of a $100,000 check from the government while my daughter would get nothing.

 

12 hours ago, Cecelia said:

  We should help people because nobody should be in debt for getting a quality education

 

People chose community college because they couldn't afford the Ivy League.  People chose to graduate in 6 or 7 years so they could work their way through college and come out debt free.  People chose to live with mom & dad and save on housing costs.  People chose to ride bikes to school, live on noodles, and stay up all night studying because they also have a day job.  

 

This proposal says "screw you!" to the people who made those choices.  It also says "I feel sorry for those who went to private graduate school to get an MBA.  I'm sorry that you went into debt to fund your lifestyle without having to work.  I'm sorry you were so stressed by class that you had to party all night for relief.   I feel sorry for you now that you're making $150k per year with your new degree.  Here, let me make that all better for you by writing you a big check.  Yeah, I know we could spend this on really poor people instead, but I'd rather give it to folks with college degrees."

 

The people this proposal helps are the people who "got mine".  They already got their college degree.  Instead, use that money to help the people who don't have theirs yet.

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By that same argument, we can't outlaw slavery.  All those people worked hard to escape slavery through the underground railroad

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There is something fundamentally unfair about raising income taxes for people saddled with student debt to pay for free college for the next generation. 

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11 minutes ago, Olivaw said:

There is something fundamentally unfair about raising income taxes for people saddled with student debt to pay for free college for the next generation. 

 

A good argument for student debt forgiveness.

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Just now, bludog said:

 

A good argument for student debt forgiveness.

Indeed. You can do both debt forgiveness/relief and free/subsidized community college. You can’t really do just one. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cecelia said:

By that same argument, we can't outlaw slavery.  All those people worked hard to escape slavery through the underground railroad

 

I don't understand how that's comparable.  But let me offer some comparisons...

 

16 hours ago, Cecelia said:

nobody should be in debt for getting a quality education

 

I know people who have big loans for their homes.   No one should be in debt for providing shelter for their children, right?

 

I know people who have credit card debt.  No one should be in debt for putting clothes on their back, right?

 

How is education debt more worthy of relief than home loans or credit card debt?  

 

37 minutes ago, Olivaw said:

There is something fundamentally unfair about raising income taxes for people saddled with student debt to pay for free college for the next generation. 

 

That money has to come from somewhere.  All programs cost taxpayers.  If you think the program is worthwhile, you accept the taxes.  I think this is worthwhile if the burden is evenly spread.

 

I don't think it's worthwhile for someone like my daughter to pay for someone like my son-in-law.  They both went to the same school.  They both have parents in the same income bracket.  One worked and skimped and struggled and finally got a degree.  The other one took loans, didn't work, and graduated on time.   Now, the hard-working student will be taxed to reward the lazy one.  

 

28 minutes ago, bludog said:

A good argument for student debt forgiveness.

 

Not really.  It only shifts the burden off the Ivy League graduate (who'll get complete debt forgiveness) to rest completely on people who paid for their own college (or didn't go at all, or went to community college instead of taking loans).   

 

From Bernie Sanders' web page:  "Today, total tuition at public colleges and universities amounts to about $70 billion per year."  So, how did people get $1.6 trillion in debt?  That would take 22 years at $70 billion per year, even if no one ever repaid a dime.  Obviously, this debt represents a lot of tuition at high-priced private universities.  

 

I notice you didn't answer any of my questions from my last post.  I will take that as acceptance that there are no good answers.

 

33 minutes ago, Olivaw said:

You can do both debt forgiveness/relief and free/subsidized community college. You can’t really do just one. 

 

Technically, you are correct.  In practical reality, I'm not so sure.  And, even if we could do both, there would be other programs that wouldn't get funded as a result.  $1.6 trillion represents over $12,500 for every household in the USA.   That's more than twice as big as the entire defense budget.  

 

Is student debt forgiveness the best use you can think of for $1.6 trillion dollars?   There are so many worthy programs begging for funding, it would be criminal to spend such a large share of our taxes to repay doctors, lawyers and MBAs for their degrees.  There are so many truly less fortunate people who desperately need real help with basic life needs.

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On 7/29/2019 at 7:23 AM, Renegade said:

Anyway, my disagreement isn't about what to do about the future.  I am definitely favorable toward the more liberal approaches (such as public funding) for higher education.  My issue is with trying to make this retroactive.  A proposal like Bernie's would refund 100% of the college costs for my son-in-law while not paying my daughter a single penny.  He worked only occasionally while he was in school and his parents (who earn as much or more than I do) paid nothing.  After graduation (with massive debt), he decided he doesn't like to work in the field of his degree.

 

My daughter went to the same school.  She worked full-time year-round and took over 5 years to graduate.  I also helped.  As a result, she was able to graduate debt-free.   Now, Bernie wants to give my son-in-law a 6-figure check while my daughter wouldn't get a dime.  That makes me angry.  I don't understand why my son-in-law deserves a check and my daughter doesn't.

 

Just as it doesn't seem fair to reward your son-in-law's self-indulgent lack of foresight with forgiveness of his student debt ;  There is also, as Olivaw just pointed out "something fundamentally unfair about raising income taxes for people saddled with student debt to pay for free college for the next generation."  and "You can do both debt forgiveness/relief and free/subsidized community college. You can’t really do just one."

 

There are an infinite number of financial and personal family situations.  Anecdotal resentments and jealousies are often caused by nebulous perceptions about whose ox was gored;  And may or may not have merit.   There is probably a small lesson to be learned from each case.  But it is nearly impossible to pass sweeping laws and satisfy everyone affected 100% of the time.  Considering the benefits to our Nation and its people, free college should be made law, along with student debt relief, as part of a unified package.

 

And lastly, debt incurred by discretionary spending on luxuries is fundamentally distinct from debt acquired by spending on necessities, job training, practical self-improvement or higher education. 

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8 minutes ago, Renegade said:

I notice you didn't answer any of my questions from my last post.  I will take that as acceptance that there are no good answers.

 

See above. 

 

Why so impatient?

 

On 7/29/2019 at 7:23 AM, Renegade said:

My daughter went to the same school.  She worked full-time year-round and took over 5 years to graduate.  I also helped.  As a result, she was able to graduate debt-free.   Now, Bernie wants to give my son-in-law a 6-figure check while my daughter wouldn't get a dime.  That makes me angry.  I don't understand why my son-in-law deserves a check and my daughter doesn't.

 

This is only one side of the story and sounds like it might be grist for family counseling.  Bernie is not at fault here.  Good legislation should aim to accomplish goals like: "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity".  It should not be based on anecdotal family dynamics.

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You do realize... that we offer housing assistance.  Right?  Like... that's a thing that exists.  

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16 hours ago, Cecelia said:

You do realize... that we offer housing assistance.  Right?  Like... that's a thing that exists.  

 

?   Do you mean for college students or for homeless people?    Anyway, I'm sure either or both could use additional funding (if we didn't waste it on college debt relief).   I'm sure programs for the homeless and the mentally ill could also use more funding.  We could offer federally subsidized day care.  We could improve programs for disabled vets.  We could boost investment in green energy.  

 

We could do so many better things with that money than give it to Ivy League grads so they don't have to delay buying their Mercedes.

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I started this thread because I want to understand how so many of my fellow liberals can support such a regressive program.  A 'regressive' program is one that benefits the well-off more than the poor.

 

This is from berniesanders.com:   "Seventy-three percent of the benefits of cancelling all student debt will go to the bottom 80 percent of Americans, who are making less than $127,000 a year."   He says that as if it's supposed to be a good thing.  Think about it.  If 80% of the people are only getting 73% of the benefits, they're losing out!  That means the top 20% (those making over $127k) are getting 27% of the benefits (more than an equal share).  Is he really math challenged?   And, notice that he chooses the 80% mark as his divider.  If he chose the divider at, say 50%, the ratio would be even worse.  That's because most of the bottom 50% hasn't even attended college.  

 

This is the most regressive program I can remember ever being put forward by a liberal.  I can't believe people who strive for economic equality could ever back a plan to take from the poor and give to the well-off.  What ever happened to advocating for the little guy?   

 

These are the people who will benefit the most from Bernie's total debt forgiveness:

- Average debt for medical school graduates: $196,520 (nerdwallet)

- Average debt for dental school graduates: $285,184

- Average debt for pharmacy school graduates: $166,528  

- Most MBAs borrow over $100k (Bloomberg)

 

One last point.   If it's such a good idea to eliminate student debt, why would we not eliminate mortgage debt?  Every single justification that has been put forward for eliminating student debt applies just as well to mortgage debt.  No one should be penalized for putting a roof over their head.  Think how much it would stimulate the economy.  Think how many jobs would be created.  No one should be "sentenced to a lifetime of debt for doing the right thing".

 

Don't worry about the fact that rich folks have bigger mortgages.  As Bludog said, "There are an infinite number of financial and personal family situations" and "good legislation...should not be based on anecdotal family dynamics".  If it's a good idea, it's a good idea...right?

 

If you can understand why having the taxpayer pay off all mortgages is a bad idea, you should be able to understand why it's also a bad idea to pay off all student debt.

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Anecdote Time:

A couple of years ago I had an ABSOLUTELY brilliant student.  Straight A's, valedictorian.  She could've easily had her choice of schools.  The problem was, she couldn't afford it.  Even with scholarships that she qualified for, she couldn't afford to go to an ivy league college, even though she would've easily been accepted at any of them.  Who knows what she could've done with an Ivy League education?  She'd have had far more opportunities than she does today.  Now, she's deep in debt and struggling significantly.  But hey, we can't pay off her debt!  Wouldn't be 'fair'!  What about fair to her?  What about fair to the thousands of other students JUST like her, drowning in debt just so they could get their education?  But no!  We can't do that!  Some people might claw their way out of poverty, and we just can't let them do that!  Better to let them stay down there with the rest of society.  Keep the hierarchy the way it is.  Much better than only the rich can afford to go to college.

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co worker waited 5 year to be out of the home  applied for a government grant till he got one went on to get his dream job debt free

 

 

 

 

 

 

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