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Is it possible for a Christian to be a good American?

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     I don't think a person can be a good American if they think religious law

should dictate the laws of the nation. 

 

     America was founded with the principle that there will be no state religion.

If you support legislation JUST BECAUSE it would make your religious laws

the laws of the land, then you are violating the intent of the First Amendment.

 

      In America's past, it was standard operating procedure to make

the laws of the land consistent with the Christian faith.

For example, blue laws tried to force church beliefs ON THE WHOLE POPULATION.

Laws against adultery and homosexuality are part of America's recent past

that are a good example of Christians FORCING their religious beliefs

on others (like the Sharia Law threat they like to use so often and of which they are more guilty than any Muslim). 

 

       When you support laws that make it difficult to access abortion

(or ban it altogether) you are doing the same thing....violating

the First Amendment by pushing your religious beliefs on others.

 

You cannot be a good American if you try to force your religious beliefs on others  

thru the nation's laws - not if you truly grasp the meaning of FREEDOM.

 

 

 

 

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Not all Christians want a theocracy or for religion to be a dominant part of the government/legal environment. Not all Christians  are proselytizers. 

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There is no commandment in Christianity that a nation adopt Christian laws. These were voluntarily voted into law by through the consent of the governed. Their origin is moot, they were passed by voters and some have been overturned as unconstitutional. No riots, no undocumented shopping. The same does not hold true of Islam, which demands Sharia law be universally followed by believer and infidel alike. 

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Pretty hard, practically speaking, to separate a person's overall life and beliefs from their religion.  We'd be better off just pointing out how stupid the religions are than trying to stop people from attempting to legislate their religious beliefs.  The fact that the Catholic Church is a giant child raping racket should really help tear down some of these brain-killing old religions, but they seem oddly resistant to even blatant evil gangster sh!t like that for some reason.  They're really, REALLY scared of the Devil, I think.

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2 minutes ago, NeoConvict said:

There is no commandment in Christianity that a nation adopt Christian laws. These were voluntarily voted into law by through the consent of the governed. Their origin is moot, they were passed by voters and some have been overturned as unconstitutional. No riots, no undocumented shopping. The same does not hold true of Islam, which demands Sharia law be universally followed by believer and infidel alike. 

 

Yes, but if you choose to vote to make other follow your Christian beliefs, you are violating the

basis on which the nation was founded --- for there NOT TO BE A STATE RELIGION

You are claiming the majority should be able to force a STATE RELIGION on the minority.

YOU are NOT a GOOD AMERICAN if these are your beliefs.

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Just now, Scout said:

 

Yes, but if you choose to vote to make other follow your Christian beliefs, you are violating the

basis on which the nation was founded --- for there NOT TO BE A STATE RELIGION

You are claiming the majority should be able to force a STATE RELIGION on the minority.

YOU are NOT a GOOD AMERICAN if these are your beliefs.

States imposing laws found in religion are not establishing a church of the United States. If a state, county, or town wants to ban alchohol or pork, that is their right. It does not matter the origin of a law, only that its agreed to by the consent of the governed and does not violate the civil rights of the citizenry. 

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1 minute ago, NeoConvict said:

States imposing laws found in religion are not establishing a church of the United States. If a state, county, or town wants to ban alchohol or pork, that is their right. It does not matter the origin of a law, only that its agreed to by the consent of the governed and does not violate the civil rights of the citizenry. 

They most certainly ARE establishing a STATE RELIGION.

 

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2 minutes ago, Scout said:

They most certainly ARE establishing a STATE RELIGION.

 

The only way to avoid it is to commit to the enlightenment principles of trusting only what we can actually demonstrate.  But ultimately, our morals are going to guide us.  There is no getting around it.  We just need to avoid conditions that really make fertile ground for fundamentalism to spring up.  When people start to think they have all the answers, and the only answers, that's when things get sideways.

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15 minutes ago, Scout said:

     I don't think a person can be a good American if they think religious law

should dictate the laws of the nation. 

 

     America was founded with the principle that there will be no state religion.

If you support legislation JUST BECAUSE it would make your religious laws

the laws of the land, then you are violating the intent of the First Amendment.

 

      In America's past, it was standard operating procedure to make

the laws of the land consistent with the Christian faith.

For example, blue laws tried to force church beliefs ON THE WHOLE POPULATION.

Laws against adultery and homosexuality are part of America's recent past

that are a good example of Christians FORCING their religious beliefs

on others (like the Sharia Law threat they like to use so often and of which they are more guilty than any Muslim). 

 

       When you support laws that make it difficult to access abortion

(or ban it altogether) you are doing the same thing....violating

the First Amendment by pushing your religious beliefs on others.

 

You cannot be a good American if you try to force your religious beliefs on others  

thru the nation's laws - not if you truly grasp the meaning of FREEDOM.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately for you, what you think probably doesn't matter to the overwhelming majority of Christians.

 

I am a strong believer that the "intent" of the law is irrelevant.  What does the law say?  That is what matters.  If the legislators intended for it to say something different, they would have written the law to say what they wanted.  T

 

Also unfortunately for you, people vote for candidates (as much as possible) who think the they think when it comes to issues that are important to them.  If that means that the things the believe because of their religious beliefs find their way into the federal statutes, you are just going to have to suck it up until you can convince enough people across the country to elect legislators who agree with you.  That is how the system works.

 

Lastly, there is nothing in the US Constitution or the amendments that prohibit people from electing people who agree with their points of view.  You may not like that...but it doesn't make it untrue.

 

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27 minutes ago, Scout said:

     I don't think a person can be a good American if they think religious law

should dictate the laws of the nation. 

 

     America was founded with the principle that there will be no state religion.

If you support legislation JUST BECAUSE it would make your religious laws

the laws of the land, then you are violating the intent of the First Amendment.

 

      In America's past, it was standard operating procedure to make

the laws of the land consistent with the Christian faith.

For example, blue laws tried to force church beliefs ON THE WHOLE POPULATION.

Laws against adultery and homosexuality are part of America's recent past

that are a good example of Christians FORCING their religious beliefs

on others (like the Sharia Law threat they like to use so often and of which they are more guilty than any Muslim). 

 

       When you support laws that make it difficult to access abortion

(or ban it altogether) you are doing the same thing....violating

the First Amendment by pushing your religious beliefs on others.

 

You cannot be a good American if you try to force your religious beliefs on others  

thru the nation's laws - not if you truly grasp the meaning of FREEDOM.

 

 

 

 

All Christians are good Americans you dumb F!!K.

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4 minutes ago, BatteryPowered said:

 

Unfortunately for you, what you think probably doesn't matter to the overwhelming majority of Christians.

 

I am a strong believer that the "intent" of the law is irrelevant.  What does the law say?  That is what matters.  If the legislators intended for it to say something different, they would have written the law to say what they wanted.  T

 

Also unfortunately for you, people vote for candidates (as much as possible) who think the they think when it comes to issues that are important to them.  If that means that the things the believe because of their religious beliefs find their way into the federal statutes, you are just going to have to suck it up until you can convince enough people across the country to elect legislators who agree with you.  That is how the system works.

 

Lastly, there is nothing in the US Constitution or the amendments that prohibit people from electing people who agree with their points of view.  You may not like that...but it doesn't make it untrue.

 

But it definitely prohibits a STATE RELIGION. 

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1 minute ago, Scout said:

But it definitely prohibits a STATE RELIGION. 

 

So?  Making it illegal to kill another person is a bad thing?

 

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My comments are addressing whether a Christian is a GOOD AMERICAN or not. 

If you force your religious beliefs on others who do not share them, you cannot be a GOOD AMERICAN as

you have chosen to take away freedom from others just because YOU think a behavior is wrong.

 

If you object to adultery, your religion should ONLY MEAN you will try to avoid

participating in adulterous behavior. YOUR RELIGION should not legally be able to make other people believe the same way as

making anti-adultery laws is trying to do and is VERY UNAMERICAN.

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3 minutes ago, BatteryPowered said:

 

So?  Making it illegal to kill another person is a bad thing?

 

Stripping women of their rights is definitely a bad thing if you are a 'Good American'. 

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36 minutes ago, Scout said:

     I don't think a person can be a good American if they think religious law

should dictate the laws of the nation. 

 

     America was founded with the principle that there will be no state religion.

If you support legislation JUST BECAUSE it would make your religious laws

the laws of the land, then you are violating the intent of the First Amendment.

 

      In America's past, it was standard operating procedure to make

the laws of the land consistent with the Christian faith.

For example, blue laws tried to force church beliefs ON THE WHOLE POPULATION.

Laws against adultery and homosexuality are part of America's recent past

that are a good example of Christians FORCING their religious beliefs

on others (like the Sharia Law threat they like to use so often and of which they are more guilty than any Muslim). 

 

       When you support laws that make it difficult to access abortion

(or ban it altogether) you are doing the same thing....violating

the First Amendment by pushing your religious beliefs on others.

 

You cannot be a good American if you try to force your religious beliefs on others  

thru the nation's laws - not if you truly grasp the meaning of FREEDOM.

 

 

 

 

Is it possible for a Muslim to be a good American?

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7 minutes ago, jerrykramer64fan said:

Is it possible for a Muslim to be a good American?

 

I think Christians can be good Americans but they choose NOT to be by forcing their beliefs on others.

Same rules would apply to Muslims. 

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19 minutes ago, Scout said:

My comments are addressing whether a Christian is a GOOD AMERICAN or not. 

If you force your religious beliefs on others who do not share them, you cannot be a GOOD AMERICAN as

you have chosen to take away freedom from others just because YOU think a behavior is wrong.

 

If you object to adultery, your religion should ONLY MEAN you will try to avoid

participating in adulterous behavior. YOUR RELIGION should not legally be able to make other people believe the same way as

making anti-adultery laws is trying to do and is VERY UNAMERICAN.

 

What you don't understand is that the way our country operates (as designed by the Constitution) means that if enough like minded people elect enough representatives who agree with their points of view, they get to pass the laws they want.  If you don't like it, convince enough people who agree with you to elect representative who agree with you.

 

You also seem to think the law tells you what you have to believe.  It does not.  I tells you what you cannot do without fear of repercussions.  You are still free to believe whatever you choose to believe and do whatever you choose to do...as long as you understand there are consequences that come with the decisions you make.  I suggest you choose wisely...but do as you wish.

 

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1 minute ago, BatteryPowered said:

 

What you don't understand is that the way our country operates (as designed by the Constitution) means that if enough like minded people elect enough representatives who agree with their points of view, they get to pass the laws they want.  If you don't like it, convince enough people who agree with you to elect representative who agree with you.

 

You also seem to think the law tells you what you have to believe.  It does not.  I tells you what you cannot do without fear of repercussions.  You are still free to believe whatever you choose to believe and do whatever you choose to do...as long as you understand there are consequences that come with the decisions you make.  I suggest you choose wisely...but do as you wish.

 

No, that would be tyranny of the majority over the minority.  A definite American NO-NO.

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Our Constitution is meaningless under your interpretation, BATTERY. 

 

You are saying if the people want to eliminate those rights given people by their Creator per the Dec. of Indep. they CAN do it as long as a majority want to do that.

 

So it is okay to have slaves, for example, according to your interpretation.

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4 minutes ago, Scout said:

No, that would be tyranny of the majority over the minority.  A definite American NO-NO.

 

You not liking the way things work in this country and you not being willing to accept them is completely irrelevant to who things work in this country.

 

As long as what the Constitution says (not what you think they meant) is followed...YOU LOSE.

 

SUCKS FOR YOU!!!!

 

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2 minutes ago, BatteryPowered said:

 

You not liking the way things work in this country and you not being willing to accept them is completely irrelevant to who things work in this country.

 

As long as what the Constitution says (not what you think they meant) is followed...YOU LOSE.

 

SUCKS FOR YOU!!!!

 

 

I'm fairly confident this whole topic/discussion has gone over your head.  :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Scout said:

 

I'm fairly confident this whole topic/discussion has gone over your head.  :lol:

 

No it hasn't.  You don't think Christians are good Americans because they vote for candidates that agree with their point of view because the result of that action is the passage of laws you don't like.

 

Suck it up...that's life.

 

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I believe a true Christian can be a very good person and a good American. Unfortunately. Many who  call themselves Christians, are not. They  worship the old god. A god of revenge and one that demands sacrifice with no chance of salvation. These are not the teachings of Christ. Personally, I am not a believer, and I know for a fact this country was not founded on the teachings of Christ, or any other deity. 

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