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JeanMoulin

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We are at war with the republican swine. Do you want a bleeding heart or a George Patton? I want someone who knows how to fight. Biden can turn this war around. It's not a game. This is about if our democracy will stand or fail.

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1 hour ago, JeanMoulin said:

We are at war with the republican swine.

 

Exactly.  we stand for the ordinary person and they are in the pockets of corporations and the very rich.  Politically, Biden resembles Donald Trump in substance, if not style.

 

Quote

Joe Biden is a candidate of the oligarchy.  Democractic primary voters will see right through him

1 hour ago, JeanMoulin said:

Do you want a bleeding heart or a George Patton? I want someone who knows how to fight. Biden can turn this war around. It's not a game. This is about if our democracy will stand or fail.

 

If George Patton had a war record remotely resembling George Biden's campaign history, we would have lost WWII.

Compliments of ExPDXer

Quote

 

Here is his electoral record. He has never won a presidential primary, not even close.

1984 Democratic National Convention: Joe Biden received exactly 1 delegate vote (out of 3,884, or 0.03%), tying Martha Kirkland for last place. Final results:

  • Walter Mondale– 2,191 (56.41%)
  • Gary Hart – 1,201 (30.92%)
  • Jesse Jackson – 466 (12.00%)
  • Thomas Eagleton – 18 (0.46%)
  • George McGovern – 4 (0.10%)
  • John Glenn – 2 (0.05%)
  • Joe Biden – 1 (0.03%)
  • Martha Kirkland – 1 (0.03%)

1988 Democratic National Convention: Joe Biden received exactly 2 delegates. His campaign was derailed rather quickly after a plagiarism scandal culminated in an admission he lifted -- nearly verbatim -- a speech originally given by a British politician.

  • Michael Dukakis – 2,877 (70.09%)
  • Jesse Jackson – 1,219 (29.70%)
  • Richard H. Stallings– 3 (0.07%)
  • Joe Biden – 2 (0.05%)
  • Dick Gephardt – 2 (0.05%)
  • Lloyd Bentsen– 1 (0.02%)
  • Gary Hart– 1 (0.02%)

2008 New Hampshire Democratic Vice Presidential primary: NH is basically an open primary. During his campaign, Stebbins bumper stickers "Vote for Ray Stebbins, Vice President", included phrases "easy to remove" and "so you wouldn’t have it on there for years".

  • Raymond Stebbins– 50,485 (46.93%)

    William Bryk – 22,965 (21.35%)

  • John Edwards* – 10,553 (9.81%)

  • Barack Obama* 6,402 (5.95%)

  • Bill Richardson* (write-in) – 5,525 (5.14%)

  • Hillary Clinton* (write-in) – 3,419 (3.18%)

  • Joe Biden* – 1,512 (1.41%)

  • Al Gore* – 966 (0.90%)

  • Dennis Kucinich* – 762 (0.71%)

  • Bill Clinton* – 388 (0.36%)

  • John McCain* – 293 (0.27%)

  • Christopher Dodd* – 224 (0.21%)

  • Ron Paul* – 176 (0.16%)

  • Jack Barnes, Jr.* – 95 (0.09%)

  • Mike Gravel* – 91 (0.09%)

  • Joe Lieberman* – 67 (0.06%)

  • Mitt Romney* – 66 (0.06%)

  • Mike Huckabee* – 63 (0.06%)

  • Rudy Giuliani* – 46 (0.04%)

  •  

2008 Democratic presidential primaries

His 2008 bid is likely most remembered for his gaffes, including one in which he in-artfully described his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, as "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean."

 

  • Barack Obama – 16,706,853

    Hillary Clinton– 16,239,821

  • John Edwards– 742,010

  • Bill Richardson– 89,054

  • Uncommitted – 82,660

  • Dennis Kucinich– 68,482

  • Joe Biden – 64,041

  • Mike Gravel– 27,662

  • Christopher Dodd– 25,300

  • Others – 22,556

 

There is no reason for Joe Biden to be President of the United States.  He represents regressive policies of the past and will largely, continue in the footsteps of Trump.

 

 

 

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To compare Biden to THE PIG is insanity. I don't care what Biden did or said in the past, this is now, and THE PIG is scared of him for a reason. To win a war sometimes you have to get dirty.

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How much are we to sacrifice by putting forth a candidate with a record that shows him to support Republican policies? 

 

But Biden's failed electoral record, shown above, reveals him to be a poor campaigner.  Already his poll numbers are beginning to go down as the continued exposure of better candidates gains on him.

 

That is what the primaries are for.  Biden should not be anointed and he will not be.  He will have to prove himself in the primary process.  We will see how good a "fighter" he really is.

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Biden doesn't think Republicans are the problem.  This isn't something he said 30 years ago -- well it is, during the watergate scandal nonetheless, attacking fellow Dems instead, but it's also something he's said very recently.  Do we really want a guy who looks at Mitch McConnell and thinks "That's a guy I can work with?"  No thanks.  Joe Biden is a wolf in sheep's clothing.  He may pretend to be a democrat, but he's more closely allied with Republicans.  And I have no idea why Obama chose him as VP.  

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The average American voter is not very bright.

The election of Trump proved that.

Trump's slogan was that America is NOT great.

I suggest that we need to abandon hope, and accept reality.

 

Picture yourself living in 1930s Germany.

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How does this:

3 hours ago, peter45 said:

I suggest that we need to abandon hope, and accept reality.

 

A defeatist strategy can only aid the foe.

 

3 hours ago, peter45 said:

The average American voter is not very bright.

The election of Trump proved that.

Trump's slogan was that America is NOT great.

 

Small, committed groups of highly motivated people can and have inspired "The average American voter" who "is not very bright".

 

To "abandon hope" is a self-protective strategy against disappointment.  Which nevertheless, results in disappointment, if the future brings what is expected.  Activism is the opposite of abandoning hope and increases the possibility of victory.

 

Politics and society are constantly in flux --- That is the reality.   The status quo is always changing until it reaches a tipping point and becomes something else.

 

3 hours ago, peter45 said:

Picture yourself living in 1930s Germany.

 

Or you can picture yourself living in a progressive, enlightened America, geared to help ALL Americans prosper.  The choice is yours. 

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4 hours ago, peter45 said:

Trump's slogan was that America is NOT great.

 

There are currently two competing visions of what makes America great: 

 

1 - The vision of an Oligarchy which dominates the rest of the world politically, militarily and commercially.  This vision includes continuing to exploit the resources of the natural world to the max, choosing to reject the reality of negative consequences.

 

2 - The vision of an egalitarian, Social Democracy in which maximum prosperity and well-being for all is the goal.  This vision includes recognizing and repairing climate change and environmental degradation while striving to cooperate with other nations to solve the problems of humankind.

 

Trump's slogan, MAGA, is a call to regress to a time when vision #1 held sway, while making false promises of prosperity for white people.  In 2016, Trump and his minions won the battle of ideas.  To bring about vision #2 is a great goal, worth fighting for.  I, for one, refuse to believe it is beyond reach.

 

 

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I really don't think Biden can win against Trump.

 

There is absolutely nothing about him that is new or fresh or exciting, and if people wanted more Obama, they would have voted for Hillary.

Trump is a disaster but if Biden is the alternative I say let Trump burn it all down so we can get another FDR, hopefully Elizabeth Warren.

 

At this stage, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by bringing back the fake leftism espoused by Clinton and Obama.

It won't work and people won't support it... it would just feel condescending at this point.

On top of that, it will potentially hamstring the exciting things going on with Sanders and Warren.

 

I mean, Trump was a catastrophe but at the same time he represented something new in terms of candidates-- someone who was sincerely ugly and vulgar and debased, instead of someone pretending they weren't. Obviously Hillary was the better choice, but her biggest handicap was her elite sense of superiority and the sense that she was manipulating things behind the scenes, which she was.

 

Biden is going to be Hillary all over again... the only way he can win in 2020 is if China crashes the markets by selling off significant amounts of their US debt a week or two before the vote.

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Insightful post   ^   ^   ^

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53 minutes ago, Toldya said:

Biden is going to be Hillary all over again... the only way he can win in 2020 is if China crashes the markets by selling off significant amounts of their US debt a week or two before the vote.

 

You can't know this.

 

I don't particularly want Biden to be the nominee. He's too old. For the same reasons I don't want Sanders or Warren. But of course I'll vote for any Democrat over any Republican at this juncture. Republicans have shown moral bankruptcy, for the most part.

 

But you can't know that Biden will lose. Every current poll shows him beating Trump by double digits. Biden could win by presenting himself as a calm middle of the road alternative to an incompetent, corrupt, and wrong-headed failure. After Trump, people might really not want fresh and exciting, and instead go for competent and steady.

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5 minutes ago, laripu said:

 

You can't know this.

 

I don't particularly want Biden to be the nominee. He's too old. For the same reasons I don't want Sanders or Warren. But of course I'll vote for any Democrat over any Republican at this juncture. Republicans have shown moral bankruptcy, for the most part.

 

But you can't know that Biden will lose. Every current poll shows him beating Trump by double digits. Biden could win by presenting himself as a calm middle of the road alternative to an incompetent, corrupt, and wrong-headed failure. After Trump, people might really not want fresh and exciting, and instead go for competent and steady.

 

No, I don't know it, I'm not from the future... it's an opinion.

I just don't think that people want a return to the same old same old, and it's not enough to define himself as being another 'not Trump'.

I didn't see 2016 as just a rejection of Hillary... I saw it as a rejection of the establishment.

But who knows... maybe the swing votes that determine every election like the idea of a handsome older white guy with a nice smile... and the black voters know he at least isn't afraid of black people like Trump probably is.

 

Who knows... maybe it actually will come down to people knowing this bullsh!t has gone on long enough and they are finally ready for responsible adult leadership after letting the giant baby run amok, but I don't know when that has ever won and election before.

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Sometimes moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans are going to agree and/or compromise. That doesn’t mean that they are DINOs or RINOs. It just means that they are reasonable enough to get stuff done. 

 

Biden is a moderate Democrat. As such, he will appeal to blue collar Democrats. Like it or not, we’ll need those folks to defeat Trump in 2020.

 

Currently Biden and Warren top my list. Biden has the charisma. Warren has the policy chops. Together they would be an amazing team. 

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8 hours ago, Toldya said:

I just don't think that people want a return to the same old same old, and it's not enough to define himself as being another 'not Trump'.

 

You're likely right about this. I'd like fresh ideas too.

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10 hours ago, Olivaw said:

Sometimes moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans are going to agree and/or compromise. That doesn’t mean that they are DINOs or RINOs. It just means that they are reasonable enough to get stuff done. 

 

Biden is a moderate Democrat. As such, he will appeal to blue collar Democrats. Like it or not, we’ll need those folks to defeat Trump in 2020.

 

Currently Biden and Warren top my list. Biden has the charisma. Warren has the policy chops. Together they would be an amazing team. 

 

Ha... all this time I never actually considered a Biden/Warren card.

 

I just assumed they were on different sides... but at the same time, Warren hits the sweet spot between where the Dems are now and where they're headed, so it might actually make sense. I often wonder what would have happened if Hillary would have run with Sanders as VP... he could have picked up a lot of the slack. Of course, they would also have had to avoid gouging each other's eyes out.

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22 hours ago, Toldya said:

I really don't think Biden can win against Trump.

 

There is absolutely nothing about him that is new or fresh or exciting, and if people wanted more Obama, they would have voted for Hillary.

Trump is a disaster but if Biden is the alternative I say let Trump burn it all down so we can get another FDR, hopefully Elizabeth Warren.

 

At this stage, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by bringing back the fake leftism espoused by Clinton and Obama.

It won't work and people won't support it... it would just feel condescending at this point.

On top of that, it will potentially hamstring the exciting things going on with Sanders and Warren.

 

I mean, Trump was a catastrophe but at the same time he represented something new in terms of candidates-- someone who was sincerely ugly and vulgar and debased, instead of someone pretending they weren't. Obviously Hillary was the better choice, but her biggest handicap was her elite sense of superiority and the sense that she was manipulating things behind the scenes, which she was.

 

Biden is going to be Hillary all over again... the only way he can win in 2020 is if China crashes the markets by selling off significant amounts of their US debt a week or two before the vote.

 

I disagree.  After 4 years of Trump, people don't want "new or fresh or exciting".  They want a return to normalcy.  

 

It's a mistake to see Hillary's defeat as a rejection of Obama.  Hillary lost for several reasons, but not because of her positions on issues.  Biden isn't "Hillary all over again".  He's far more popular and (even though he's not an angel) has less baggage.  

 

With 20+ major candidates to pick from, I'm open to the idea of someone other than Biden (one I like polls <1%).  However, I would hate for the Democrats to select a candidate that appeals to the left-most 55% of the party because such a person will galvanize the other side while failing to attract that tiny minority (~12%) of Americans who are still independent.  

 

On 6/11/2019 at 9:32 PM, bludog said:

There is no reason for Joe Biden to be President of the United States.  He represents regressive policies of the past and will largely, continue in the footsteps of Trump.

 

Most of all, it hurts to see liberals coming at Biden with sharp knives.   If you want to tell me why I should support your guy/gal, I'm ready to listen.  But, I'm completely put off by those who are digging up every bit of mud they can find in a 40-year career just to damage the candidacy of someone who's been a lifelong ally.  I could easily reply with a half-page of dirt on Bernie, but I don't think that path is the best way to defeat Trump.

 

Biden isn't your favorite candidate...I get that.  But, let's keep it real.  Comments like "He will ... continue in the footsteps of Trump." are misleading, inflammatory, and not helpful.

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A return to a sense of normalcy?  And which other candidates wouldn't provide that?  Because last I checked, that happens unless we decide to nominate Howard Schwartz or something.


People DO want someone fresh and exciting.  Remember when people were like "Anybody But Bush!"  That worked out great for John Kerry, didn't it?  Oh wait, it didn't.  An unpopular President who didn't win the popular vote the first go around, won the popular vote and electoral college the second go around.  It wasn't enough not to be George W. Bush.

 

Democrats especially need to be inspired.  Remember:  Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love.  We need a candidate we can fall in love with if we want to win.  Joe Biden is not that guy.  

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15 hours ago, Renegade said:

I could easily reply with a half-page of dirt on Bernie, but I don't think that path is the best way to defeat Trump.

 

For that reason, among others, I have switched my support from Bernie to Elizabeth Warren.  You see, I care about a candidate's past record far more than their prestige or ability to survive as a politician.  At this time,  I'm also partial to Pete Buttigieg, but need to learn more.  I eagerly await the debates  for further clarification about all those who participate.

 

15 hours ago, Renegade said:

Most of all, it hurts to see liberals coming at Biden with sharp knives.   If you want to tell me why I should support your guy/gal, I'm ready to listen.  But, I'm completely put off by those who are digging up every bit of mud they can find in a 40-year career just to damage the candidacy of someone who's been a lifelong ally.  

 

The notion that a candidate's past record should not be carefully scrutinized, has no place in a Democracy

 

The primaries are us Democrats chance to choose between candidates.  Since at this stage, Biden is the front-runner, those who disapprove of him have a double obligation:  To promote their own choice;  And to expose the front-runners past failings.  If we don't do it now, the Republicans will certainly do it later, far more harshly should Biden become our candidate.  And they will not hesitate to deceptively embellish on reality .....  That is the real definition of mudslinging.  Trying to keep Biden's true political past hush-hush, is a big mistake.

 

For me, one of the most important differences between the Democratic and Republican parties, is the extent of control exerted by corporations and the very rich.  Almost without exception, Republican lawmakers are in thrall to wealthy special interests.  Corporate Democrats like Biden tend to support Liberal social causes, which have little effect on corporate profits.  But since they take special interest money, they are pressured to back legislation meant to increase corporate profits even when it's at the expense of the environment or widens the income gap.  Biden has been doing this his entire career ---  See post #2 in this thread.

 

 

15 hours ago, Renegade said:

Biden isn't your favorite candidate...I get that.  But, let's keep it real.  Comments like "He will ... continue in the footsteps of Trump." are misleading, inflammatory, and not helpful

 

Point taken. 

 

The only relevant criticisms are Biden's past record and his behavior.

 

Should Biden win the primary, he gets my support and my vote.   Replacing Trump is of first importance.  But who he's replaced with, comes directly behind.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Cecelia said:

A return to a sense of normalcy?  And which other candidates wouldn't provide that?  Because last I checked, that happens unless we decide to nominate Howard Schwartz or something.


People DO want someone fresh and exciting.  Remember when people were like "Anybody But Bush!"  That worked out great for John Kerry, didn't it?  Oh wait, it didn't.  An unpopular President who didn't win the popular vote the first go around, won the popular vote and electoral college the second go around.  It wasn't enough not to be George W. Bush.

 

Democrats especially need to be inspired.  Remember:  Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love.  We need a candidate we can fall in love with if we want to win.  Joe Biden is not that guy.  

 

Great post!

 

But do you mean Howard Schultz?  Executive Chairman of Starbucks, possibly running for president as an independent?

 

Because the only information I could find on Howard Schwartz is that he's a writer writing mostly on Jewish themes.

 

 

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On 6/11/2019 at 8:51 PM, JeanMoulin said:

We are at war with the republican swine. Do you want a bleeding heart or a George Patton?

I want a good man or woman in office.  Being a 'bleeding heart' myself, I'd love to see one in the White House.   Politics shouldn't be a blood sport.  Our president should be someone who works for ALL Americans, not just the wealthiest or the ones in their own party.  Our president should be unifying, not divisive.

 

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I want someone who knows how to fight. Biden can turn this war around. It's not a game. This is about if our democracy will stand or fail.

If Biden ends up being the nominee, I will (grudgingly) vote for him.  However I would prefer Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, Harris, or most of the other Dems.  For me, Biden is too centrist and corporate connected.  He doesn't even support Medicare for all.  :(  

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1 hour ago, RollingRock said:

  He doesn't even support Medicare for all.  :(  

 

4 hours ago, bludog said:

The only relevant criticisms are Biden's past record and his behavior.

 

     

Women's Right's:

bid.jpg

Foreign Affairs (Bush-Cheney's Regime Change (WMD) fiasco):

H.J.Res. 114 (107th): Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq

Yea

DE

  D  

Biden, Joseph

LGBT Rights:

The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) (enacted September 21, 1996) was a United States federal law that, prior to being ruled unconstitutional, defined marriage for federal purposes as the union of one man and one woman, and allowed states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages granted under the laws of other states. DOMA, in conjunction with other statutes, barred same-sex married couples from being recognized as "spouses" for purposes of federal laws, effectively barring them from receiving federal marriage benefits. DOMA's passage imposed constraints on the benefits received by all legally married same-sex couples.

Yea

DE

  D  

Biden, Joseph

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The logic behind supporting Biden is that he had the best chance of beating Trump.

 

We don't know this to be a fact. The primaries are the forum during which we establish which candidate we feel is the best: best to represent us, best to advance our interests, best to beat Trump.

 

At present, Biden's name recognition and money give him the lead. That may change after the debates. Biden is known for gaffes. He's already had a Hyde Amendment problem. He's sure to have more.

 

At the same time, we have a slew of other good younger candidates: Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, and Corey Booker.

 

Let's see how it goes.

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The pig comparisons just do not cut it. 

The tri tip beef, it is what is for dinner,

destruction of the rain forests, 

The pig, the hustlers, who push the hog farmers,

the bacon every meat eater knows, 

save and savor the tastes of the pig, the fat,

you conserve it, put it in your cold box, 

it goes a long way, salty Umami: The 5th taste,

make way, MSG, mono sodium glutamate

in a tomato, in a green / Nemo, Jules Vern's

Twenty leagues under the Sea.

 

Who are we, he lectured. Here you have a cave

never before seen. In all this land never fully 

explored, here on this very Earth, 

that has been up until now left alone by 

the human kind, the last living coral.

Here deep within the Sea.

 

But even this someday might soon fail.

That's why I have brought you all here just

now.

As though I could speak for Prometheus.

When nothing is left, 

Through all the promise of paradise

just everywhere, And yet, somehow destroyed

by the likes of you.

Old Captain Nemo once upon a time, 

stood for hope, until he could no more.

The smartest of any kind, the best brains

all combined into one.

We like Joe, But we got to go forward, we do.

Peace!

 

 

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