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BeAChooser

Why the UFO story is far more interesting than you think

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So you are saying all the military pilots and military radar operators who recorded these encounters made them up or misinterpreted something else?

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Sometimes you come up with something interesting, BAC !

 

An earlier article in the NY Times, which the author of this article, Tom Rogan, acknowledges, is far more cautious in its approach.  Nevertheless, in the Times article, one pilot described one of these flying objects as a "cube within a sphere".

 

Rogan's Washington Examiner article, is actually a better than usual expansion on the subject, credit due, in large part to the absence of melodramatic speculation and the inclusion of links to qualified personnel relating their experiences.  In the space-time-manipulation and faster-than-light-travel links, I read somewhat beyond their introductions before yielding to the obstacle of (for me) advanced math.  These linked articles are partly attempts at explaining the behavior of the so-called UFOs and partly practical attempts to explain and eventually, emulate their behavior.

 

Due to the enormous acceleration and sudden stopping capability of these tic-tacs, it would make sense that they might not be manned ...  Unless ostensible aliens have some way to shield personnel from the effects of the physical laws familiar to us.

 

There was also professional speculation that the objects seem to be sending a message of caution about the danger of nukes.  And testimony that these high-performance objects, whether manned or not, show special interest in our nuclear capabilities and, on occasion, have actually "deactivated U.S. nuclear missiles during test operations".   There was also professional speculation that the objects seem to be sending a message of caution about the danger of nukes, to life on Earth

 

It would be nice to think that, should worst-come-to-worst, the aliens will save us.  But we won't know until it happens or unless they contact us first.

 

If what follows is inaccurate:

Quote

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-pilots.html

Leon Golub, a senior astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, said the possibility of an extraterrestrial cause “is so unlikely that it competes with many other low-probability but more mundane explanations.” He added that “there are so many other possibilities — bugs in the code for the imaging and display systems, atmospheric effects and reflections, neurological overload from multiple inputs during high-speed flight.”

 

Then my own speculation is that we are being observed by highly advanced umanned drones of exotic technology, pre-programmed with machine intelligence far in advance of anything we can build. 

 

Intelligent civilizations may possibly be abundant in our vast Universe but if so, they are most likely spaced so far apart that even travel at many times the speed of light would take eons, at least.  So sending drones which can withstand physical forces beyond the limits of protoplasm, or its equivalent, would be the next best thing;  Or with the right technology, even better.   For all we know, there could be ways of transmitting information back, which totally bypass the speed limits of radio communication thus far discovered, on Earth. 

 

Just because we have recently, in our history discovered waves beyond visible light,  like radio waves ... ultra-violet ... infra-red ... microwaves ...  X-Rays and gamma rays, doesn't mean there isn't far more in the electromagnetic spectrum, or outside of it, waiting to be detected.

 

These drones or ships could also be scouts, prior to invasion.  Contrary to standard Hollywood fare, we would probably be toast.

 

Rhetorical questions: ---  If these objects are really products of alien manufacture, don't they ever malfunction?  Or crash?  One would expect so, even if rarely.  Why do we not have  even ONE proven artifact or part from one of these objects?  Why are we not being contacted? 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, bludog said:

Why do we not have  even ONE proven artifact or part from one of these objects?  Why are we not being contacted?

 

Maybe we do and maybe we have.

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16 hours ago, BeAChooser said:

Maybe we do and maybe we have.

 

"Maybe we do" isn't "we do". Not knowing a fact isn't indicative of the contrary to that fact.

 

On the other hand, Paul Hellyer, a former Canadian cabinet minister (for Transport  1967-69, and for National Defense, 1963-67) who was also an engineer, believes in alien intelligent life visiting earth.  He is demanding that world governments disclose alien technology that could be used to solve the problem of climate change. He's 95 years old.

 

There are respectable and intelligent people that believe this. Some of them are American military pilots, some Russian military pilots.

 

Honestly, I don't know the truth. And that's the honest truth.

 

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1 hour ago, laripu said:

 

"Maybe we do" isn't "we do". Not knowing a fact isn't indicative of the contrary to that fact.

 

On the other hand, Paul Hellyer, a former Canadian cabinet minister (for Transport  1967-69, and for National Defense, 1963-67) who was also an engineer, believes in alien intelligent life visiting earth.  He is demanding that world governments disclose alien technology that could be used to solve the problem of climate change. He's 95 years old.

 

There are respectable and intelligent people that believe this. Some of them are American military pilots, some Russian military pilots.

 

Honestly, I don't know the truth. And that's the honest truth.

 

 

there are two big questions regarding aliens, one of course do they exist?  the other question is will they destroy life on earth?

 

a panic is one reason information may be withheld from the public. it may be  however

 

determined that the aliens present no threat  and more information  may be forthcoming.

 

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the other creatures of this planet are the likely higher life forms in our universe

 

mammals 

 

 you got to wipe out the food chain a few times just to give mammals a sporting chance

 

I think you guys let sci fi give you a preconception of what a aliens should be or do 

 

to me this story pales in comparison to the fossils we find on mars or what we can find in our alien oceans 

 

total times a life forms like our could evolve in the universe  : 7

total times it evolved side by side at the same time  with another higher life form  : zero

 

 

 

You should, for example, listen to credible individuals such as Luis Elizondo — former head of the Pentagon's former UFO research agency, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. Elizondo does not talk about aliens. But you should not listen to Elizondo's To The Stars Academy colleague, Tom DeLonge (the musician is overexcited and says things that are unbound from analytical credibility).

 

 

I read:  you should listen to this guy but  but he wont talk about it much so talk to his friend the musician

 

 I think 3 face palms  was kind

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On 6/1/2019 at 7:53 PM, bludog said:

And testimony that these high-performance objects, whether manned or not, show special interest in our nuclear capabilities and, on occasion, have actually "deactivated U.S. nuclear missiles during test operations"

 

If (and that's a big IF) the deactivation of the missiles wasn't coincidental with the appearance of UFOs;  But was caused by them, it could just as easily have been a harmless but nevertheless, menacing demonstration of their military power, rather than a caution about the dangers of nukes to humankind. 

 

Whatever the case, flimsy speculation about this kind of cause and effect is all but futile because it is based on almost nothing demonstrable, given how little is known by the public ... even to the true nature of the objects themselves.  If they are even objects, at all.

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Given my three decades in aviation, I'm often asked if I've ever seen a UFO. While I've seen a lot of interesting things, I've yet to see a UFO. That being said, from a numerical perspective, I think it would be pretty far fetched for there not to be other intelligence amongst the stars. We're but a micro speck in a vast sea filled with countless billions of specks....I have zero doubt there are other specks with intelligent life - probably much more so than what's found on this rock.

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1 hour ago, LaughinAtLefty said:

That being said, from a numerical perspective, I think it would be pretty far fetched for there not to be other intelligence amongst the stars. We're but a micro speck in a vast sea filled with countless billions of specks....I have zero doubt there are other specks with intelligent life - probably much more so than what's found on this rock.

 

I agree with the entirety of this   ^   ^   ^   Plainly, it can't be otherwise.  But although it makes perfect sense there is no proof;  Which demotes it to the status of a highly educated guess.  But assuming there is, in fact, a very large number of  celestial bodies, supporting intelligent life, the amount will still be miniscule compared to the total number of specs out there.  So worlds with intelligent life are likely to be spaced exceedingly far apart. 

 

Even if the SETI project picked up alien messages, they would most likely have arrived here only after thousands of years of transit, at the speed of light.  Sending messages back would involve the same amount of time.  Traveling to the source of those messages ....

 

By the same reasoning, there must be some worlds with intelligent life, relatively near each other.   So far, it looks like ours is not one of them.

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It is my considered opinion that in our lifetime it will be announced by the government that there is proof that extraterrestrial life exists and is and has been visiting the Earth.

 

It is also my belief that we are being slowly indoctrinated into this realization to the point that when it is finally announced it will be a ho-hum event.

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10 hours ago, Giujo said:

It is my considered opinion that in our lifetime it will be announced by the government that there is proof that extraterrestrial life exists and is and has been visiting the Earth.

 

It is also my belief that we are being slowly indoctrinated into this realization to the point that when it is finally announced it will be a ho-hum event.

Interesting, but I continue to have my doubts.  My reasons are:

1.  Physical laws, as we understand them, would prohibit interstellar space travel within a reasonable time.

2.  Life, while likely through out the Universe, is seemingly not exactly "common" either.

3.  Intelligent life would be even less common.

4.  Intelligent life with the capacity to engage in interstellar travels is that much less likely.

5  Energy requirements to travel the vastness of space would make such travel impossible or impractical to do within a lifetime as we know it.

6.  Assuming that there is intelligent life a few stars away, and assuming that they are highly intelligent, it is difficult to imagine what interest they would have in expending such energy to travel to our planet.

 

So, to presume that aliens have traveled here to visit Earth requires that we toss out everything we know about our physical Universe and engage in a leap of faith that such travel is possible, desirable and energy efficient for an alien race to engage in.  We could just as easily presume that our distant relatives time-traveled back to this point in time to do some historical research.  If you accept the unknown physics of interstellar space travel, you should also accept the unknown physics of time travel. 

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1 hour ago, Skans said:

Interesting, but I continue to have my doubts.  My reasons are:

1.  Physical laws, as we understand them, would prohibit interstellar space travel within a reasonable time.

2.  Life, while likely through out the Universe, is seemingly not exactly "common" either.

3.  Intelligent life would be even less common.

4.  Intelligent life with the capacity to engage in interstellar travels is that much less likely.

5  Energy requirements to travel the vastness of space would make such travel impossible or impractical to do within a lifetime as we know it.

6.  Assuming that there is intelligent life a few stars away, and assuming that they are highly intelligent, it is difficult to imagine what interest they would have in expending such energy to travel to our planet.

 

So, to presume that aliens have traveled here to visit Earth requires that we toss out everything we know about our physical Universe and engage in a leap of faith that such travel is possible, desirable and energy efficient for an alien race to engage in.  We could just as easily presume that our distant relatives time-traveled back to this point in time to do some historical research.  If you accept the unknown physics of interstellar space travel, you should also accept the unknown physics of time travel. 

I used to think the same thing... And I understand the physics. However, the Hubble telescope was pointed at what appeared to be an empty section of sky and one of the things that is detected in addition to distant galaxies was some things that were moving faster than the speed of light. Now they could have been detecting galaxies moving faster than the speed of light because of the expansion of the universe but the more intriguing Theory is that these were objects possibly vehicles that were traveling faster than the speed of light which is theoretically possible if you can contract space behind you and expand space in front of you you would travel in a warp bubble faster than the speed of light but inside the bubble time would stay the same as it was in normal space. I judge UFO reports by if there's evidence to show that the object observed has demonstrated abilities that defy our laws of physics in our atmosphere. Traveling at hyper speeds in excess of 10000 miles an hour coming to instantaneous stops or making hyper speed starts 90° instantaneous turns at speed. Also it is possible that they may be traveling here through some type of inter-dimensional shift. So based on the evidence that we're seeing where these vehicles are defying the laws of physics in our atmosphere I would have to say they're here and coming from somewhere.

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Things are getting more interesting …

 

 

 

And this link has an interview of Congressman Mark Walker by Tucker Carlson …


https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-walker-tells-tucker-carlson-hes-concerned-over-reports-of-ufo-sightings-by-navy-pilots

 

Quote

 

… snip video of interview …


Rep. Mark Walker, R-N.C., told Fox News Friday that he is "concerned" about recent reports by U.S. Navy pilots of encounters with unidentified aircraft that some have speculated could be otherworldly.


"We are concerned about it," Walker, a member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said on "Tucker Carlson Tonight."  "As the ranking member of terrorism and counterintelligence, we have questions. It comes down to some of the new infrared radar systems that we're putting on some of our new jets are detecting some things out there."


In a letter to Navy Secretary Richard Spencer earlier this month, Walker relayed his concerns and asked for more information on what he referred to as unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP).


Specifically, Walker asked whether the Navy was still logging the reported sightings, fully investigating the origins of the accounts, and dedicating resources to track and investigate the claims.


Walker also asked Spencer in the letter if investigators had "found physical evidence or otherwise that substantiates these claims."


The Pentagon confirmed the existence of a program to investigate UFOs in 2017, but it is unclear if that is still operating. (BAC - obviously it is.)


The New York Times recently reported that Navy pilots said they saw “strange objects” with “no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes” flying at hypersonic speeds at an elevation of 30,000 feet along the East Coast.


Politico reported last month that three senators received a briefing from the Pentagon on the encounters.


"There must be theories about what these objects are what these aircraft are," Carlson told Walker. "What's the most plausible theory, do you think?"


"We don't know for sure," Walker said. "The question that we're wanting to get to is, is this something that's a defense mechanism from another country?"

 

 

Go listen to the video of the interview with Tucker.  

 

The Congressman does state that these objects are hypersonic.  

 

And Tucker says there are reports that they have wreckage from one of them.       

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On 7/27/2019 at 2:40 PM, BeAChooser said:

Things are getting more interesting …

 

 

 

And this link has an interview of Congressman Mark Walker by Tucker Carlson …


https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-walker-tells-tucker-carlson-hes-concerned-over-reports-of-ufo-sightings-by-navy-pilots

 

 

Go listen to the video of the interview with Tucker.  

 

The Congressman does state that these objects are hypersonic.  

 

And Tucker says there are reports that they have wreckage from one of them.       

I simply find it hard to believe that any alien civilization would:

1.  waste extraordinary time and resources to get to Earth simply to observe us in person

2.  be able to travel way faster than the speed of light without us noticing them doing this.

3.  have enough energy to be able to propel something to faster than light-speed travel. 

 

Are we really all that interesting to a highly advanced society of light-speed travelers?  It would be like us traveling to the inner oceans of Europa, only to discover aquatic sugar ants, and then staying there to monitor their progress over the next 4,000,000 years.

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7 hours ago, Skans said:

I simply find it hard to believe that any alien civilization would:

1.  waste extraordinary time and resources to get to Earth simply to observe us in person

2.  be able to travel way faster than the speed of light without us noticing them doing this.

3.  have enough energy to be able to propel something to faster than light-speed travel. 

 

Are we really all that interesting to a highly advanced society of light-speed travelers?  It would be like us traveling to the inner oceans of Europa, only to discover aquatic sugar ants, and then staying there to monitor their progress over the next 4,000,000 years.

 

So what do you think they are seeing?   Swamp gas?

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14 hours ago, Skans said:

I simply find it hard to believe that any alien civilization would:

1.  waste extraordinary time and resources to get to Earth simply to observe us in person

2.  be able to travel way faster than the speed of light without us noticing them doing this.

3.  have enough energy to be able to propel something to faster than light-speed travel. 

 

Are we really all that interesting to a highly advanced society of light-speed travelers?  It would be like us traveling to the inner oceans of Europa, only to discover aquatic sugar ants, and then staying there to monitor their progress over the next 4,000,000 years.

 

we would be interesting enough to observe.

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9 hours ago, BeAChooser said:

 

So what do you think they are seeing?   Swamp gas?

I honestly don't know.  No, not swamp gas, and I do believe they are seeing something.   I just don't think they are seeing anything that has traveled here from 50+ light years away. 

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2 hours ago, jerra- said:

 

we would be interesting enough to observe.

No we aren't.  Imagine that a civilization of chimps lives within a 25 year journey to their world; that it would cost less than 7 Billion dollars to get there; and that 25% of the world's uranium must be expended to get 10 humans there to observe them for a couple of years.  By the time these travelers return home they would be 70 years older (or dead) and they would not know anyone left on Earth.  Would you sign up for that mission?  Really???

 

Now, imagine that a civilization of chimps lives within a 2 hour journey to their world; that it would cost less than $100 to get there and back; and that you could spend 10 minutes or 10 hours observing the chimp world and easily return home whenever you want.   When was the last time you visited Africa?  Or, the nearest zoo?  And, the last time you went to the zoo, how long did you spend looking at the chimps?

 

Yeah, human civilization would be pretty damn boring to a civilization of beings who could figure out how to travel 50 light years in just a few years.  How many times do you think they are going to make that trip?  "Dad, we saw the stupid humans last year, why do we have to go seem them again this year?  They smell bad and all they do is stare at electronic devices and press buttons....."

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16 minutes ago, BeAChooser said:

How do you know they haven't come to visit me?

Because you never claimed that any Aliens have ever come to visit you!  And, when you speak of others seeing UFO's, you always use the pronoun "they". 

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