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Nordic Socialism Is Realer Than You Think

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The common thread to these mistaken conclusions, aside from the desire to deny that there are leftist success stories in the world, is the apparent belief that the only extraordinary part of Nordic economies are the welfare states. Except for their generous social benefits, everything else is properly capitalist and even more capitalist than the United States. Or so the argument goes.

 

Labor Market
But this is not true. In addition to their large welfare states and high tax levels, Nordic economies are also home to large public sectors, strong job protections, and labor markets governed by centralized union contracts.

Around 1 in 3 workers in Denmark and Norway are employed by the government.

 

Protections against termination by employers are much stronger in the Nordic countries.

Centrally-bargained union contracts establish the work rules and pay scales for the vast majority of Nordic workers.

These labor market characteristics are hardly neoliberal or quasi-libertarian, at least if we stick to typical definitions of those terms. The neoliberal tendency, as exemplified most recently by France’s Emmanuel Macron, is to cut public sector jobs, reduce job protections, and push for local rather than centralized labor agreements. For the US labor market to become more like the Nordics, it would have to move in the opposite direction on all of those fronts.

State Ownership
Even more interesting than Nordic labor market institutions is Nordic state ownership. Collective ownership over capital is the hallmark of that old-school socialism that is supposed to have been entirely discredited. And yet, such public ownership figures prominently in present-day Norway and Finland and has had a role in the other two Nordic countries as well, especially in Sweden where the government embarked upon a now-defunct plan to socialize the whole of Swedish industry into wage-earner funds just a few decades ago.

The governments of Norway and Finland own financial assets equal to 330 percent and 130 percent of each country’s respective GDP. In the US, the same figure is just 26 percent.

Much of this money is tied up in diversified wealth funds, which some would object to as not counting as real state ownership. I disagree with the claim that wealth funds are not really state ownership, but the observation that Nordic countries feature high levels of state ownership does not turn upon this quibble.

St

 

ate-owned enterprises (SOEs), defined as commercial enterprises in which the state has a controlling stake or large minority stake, are also far more prevalent in the Nordic countries. In 2012, the value of Norwegian SOEs was equal to 87.9 percent of the country’s GDP. For Finland, that figure was 52.3 percent. In the US, it was not even 1 percent.

No one would argue that the Nordic countries are full-blown socialist countries, whatever that might mean. But it is also folly to pretend the only thing they have proven is that high taxes and large welfare states can work. Even on the narrow understanding of socialism as public ownership of enterprise, the Nordic countries are far more socialistic than most commentators seem to realize. American socialists who draw inspiration from their successes do so rightly.
 

In Norway, the discovery of oil in the North Sea was the impetus for the creation of its enormous social wealth fund. The fund currently owns around $950 billion of assets throughout the world, including more than $325 billion of assets inside the US. In a video on the Norwegian central bank’s website, the fund is described as follows: “It is the people’s money, owned by everyone, divided equally and for generations to come.”

http://mattbruenig.com/2017/07/28/nordic-socialism-is-realer-than-you-think/  Image result for nordic socialism is realer than you thinkImage result for nordic socialism is realer than you thinkImage result for nordic socialism is realer than you think

 

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Moron. They have virtually no military budget, thanks to the US. Otherwise they would be conquered by other nations.

 

You liberal TREASON MONKEYS are IDIOTS!

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3 minutes ago, SixShooter said:

Moron. They have virtually no military budget, thanks to the US. Otherwise they would be conquered by other nations.

 

You liberal TREASON MONKEYS are IDIOTS!

Sweden - Military expenditure (% of GDP)

Military expenditure (% of GDP) in Sweden was 1.03 as of 2016. Its highest value over the past 56 years was 3.68 in 1963, while its lowest value was 1.03 in 2016.

Definition: Military expenditures data from SIPRI are derived from the NATO definition, which includes all current and capital expenditures on the armed forces, including peacekeeping forces; defense ministries and other government agencies engaged in defense projects; paramilitary forces, if these are judged to be trained and equipped for military operations; and military space activities. Such expenditures include military and civil personnel, including retirement pensions of military personnel and social services for personnel; operation and maintenance; procurement; military research and development; and military aid (in the military expenditures of the donor country). Excluded are civil defense and current expenditures for previous military activities, such as for veterans' benefits, demobilization, conversion, and destruction of weapons. This definition cannot be applied for all countries, however, since that would require much more detailed information than is available about what is included in military budgets and off-budget military expenditure items. (For example, military budgets might or might not cover civil defense, reserves and auxiliary forces, police and paramilitary forces, dual-purpose forces such as military and civilian police, military grants in kind, pensions for military personnel, and social security contributions paid by one part of government to another.)

Source: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), Yearbook: Armaments, Disarmament and International Security.

See also:

Sweden - Military expenditure (% of GDP)

Military expenditure (% of GDP) in Sweden was 1.03 as of 2016. Its highest value over the past 56 years was 3.68 in 1963, while its lowest value was 1.03 in 2016.

Definition: Military expenditures data from SIPRI are derived from the NATO definition, which includes all current and capital expenditures on the armed forces, including peacekeeping forces; defense ministries and other government agencies engaged in defense projects; paramilitary forces, if these are judged to be trained and equipped for military operations; and military space activities. Such expenditures include military and civil personnel, including retirement pensions of military personnel and social services for personnel; operation and maintenance; procurement; military research and development; and military aid (in the military expenditures of the donor country). Excluded are civil defense and current expenditures for previous military activities, such as for veterans' benefits, demobilization, conversion, and destruction of weapons. This definition cannot be applied for all countries, however, since that would require much more detailed information than is available about what is included in military budgets and off-budget military expenditure items. (For example, military budgets might or might not cover civil defense, reserves and auxiliary forces, police and paramilitary forces, dual-purpose forces such as military and civilian police, military grants in kind, pensions for military personnel, and social security contributions paid by one part of government to another.)

Source: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), Yearbook: Armaments, Disarmament and International Security.

See also:

Sweden is poised to have a defense large enough to enable them to stand on their own feet. The rearmament in Sweden and other countries tells us something about the international situation. They are afraid of Russia's growing involvement," Thomas Slensvik from Norway's National Defense College told Norwegian national broadcaster NRK.     

TOCKHOLM — The Swedish military can expect to see a sizable increase in its annual budget regardless of the composition of the new government that will be formed in the wake of parliamentary elections.

All of the mainstream parties, including the ruling Social Democrats (SDP), the Moderates, the Center, Liberals and the Sweden Democrats’ right-wing nationalist party, campaigned on delivering a stronger national defense and channeling a much higher level of spending to the Swedish Armed Forces over the next 10 years.

"Sweden needs a more resilient national defense capability that is better funded and resourced," said Stefan Löfven, the SDP’s leader and Sweden’s prime minister.

The SDP is hoping to assemble a new government in partnership with the Leftist and Green parties. These three parties secured a 40.8 percent share of the popular vote in the recently concluded September 2018 election.

Löfven’s main challenge is the center-right Alliance group, which includes the Moderates, the Center, Liberals and Christian Democrats. Together, the four Alliance parties won 40.3 percent of the popular vote.https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/09/12/new-swedish-government-advocates-for-greater-defense-spending/

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GOD you Treason Monkeys are STUPID. Since they arent so STUPID they spend more than the next twenty or so countries in the WORLD like we do even though about 18 of those countries are our ALLIES that is THEIR problem? GOD brainwashed Treason Monkey MORONS are easy to brainwash. A HUGE part of our military budget has NOTHING to do with defense and is just a way to SUBSIDIZE our high tech industries and BRAINWASHED MORONS like you are too STUPID to know it. GOD Treason Monkeys are STUPID and pathetic

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5 minutes ago, SixShooter said:

Moron. They have virtually no military budget, thanks to the US. Otherwise they would be conquered by other nations.

 

You liberal TREASON MONKEYS are IDIOTS!

boy are you lame is that all you have name calling and a small military? pathetic actually their military budgets are going up by a lot, that always has a stimulous effect

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42 minutes ago, guilluamezenz said:

The common thread to these mistaken conclusions, aside from the desire to deny that there are leftist success stories in the world, is the apparent belief that the only extraordinary part of Nordic economies are the welfare states. Except for their generous social benefits, everything else is properly capitalist and even more capitalist than the United States. Or so the argument goes.

 

Labor Market
But this is not true. In addition to their large welfare states and high tax levels, Nordic economies are also home to large public sectors, strong job protections, and labor markets governed by centralized union contracts.

Around 1 in 3 workers in Denmark and Norway are employed by the government.

 

Protections against termination by employers are much stronger in the Nordic countries.

Centrally-bargained union contracts establish the work rules and pay scales for the vast majority of Nordic workers.

These labor market characteristics are hardly neoliberal or quasi-libertarian, at least if we stick to typical definitions of those terms. The neoliberal tendency, as exemplified most recently by France’s Emmanuel Macron, is to cut public sector jobs, reduce job protections, and push for local rather than centralized labor agreements. For the US labor market to become more like the Nordics, it would have to move in the opposite direction on all of those fronts.

State Ownership
Even more interesting than Nordic labor market institutions is Nordic state ownership. Collective ownership over capital is the hallmark of that old-school socialism that is supposed to have been entirely discredited. And yet, such public ownership figures prominently in present-day Norway and Finland and has had a role in the other two Nordic countries as well, especially in Sweden where the government embarked upon a now-defunct plan to socialize the whole of Swedish industry into wage-earner funds just a few decades ago.

The governments of Norway and Finland own financial assets equal to 330 percent and 130 percent of each country’s respective GDP. In the US, the same figure is just 26 percent.

Much of this money is tied up in diversified wealth funds, which some would object to as not counting as real state ownership. I disagree with the claim that wealth funds are not really state ownership, but the observation that Nordic countries feature high levels of state ownership does not turn upon this quibble.

St

 

ate-owned enterprises (SOEs), defined as commercial enterprises in which the state has a controlling stake or large minority stake, are also far more prevalent in the Nordic countries. In 2012, the value of Norwegian SOEs was equal to 87.9 percent of the country’s GDP. For Finland, that figure was 52.3 percent. In the US, it was not even 1 percent.

No one would argue that the Nordic countries are full-blown socialist countries, whatever that might mean. But it is also folly to pretend the only thing they have proven is that high taxes and large welfare states can work. Even on the narrow understanding of socialism as public ownership of enterprise, the Nordic countries are far more socialistic than most commentators seem to realize. American socialists who draw inspiration from their successes do so rightly.
 

In Norway, the discovery of oil in the North Sea was the impetus for the creation of its enormous social wealth fund. The fund currently owns around $950 billion of assets throughout the world, including more than $325 billion of assets inside the US. In a video on the Norwegian central bank’s website, the fund is described as follows: “It is the people’s money, owned by everyone, divided equally and for generations to come.”

http://mattbruenig.com/2017/07/28/nordic-socialism-is-realer-than-you-think/  Image result for nordic socialism is realer than you thinkImage result for nordic socialism is realer than you thinkImage result for nordic socialism is realer than you think

 

back to betweem 5 and 6 million reproductions in Nordic state of mind are a different species than the other 7.493 billion others occupying space in this atmosphere. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

 

Damn you make up some serious bs statistics. Ancestral Stockhom Syndrome. Thor is a nortic god correct? I remember when American history taught vikings were as ruthless as native americans before the whiteman showed up. 

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3 minutes ago, sole result said:

back to betweem 5 and 6 million reproductions in Nordic state of mind are a different species than the other 7.493 billion others occupying space in this atmosphere. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

 

Damn you make up some serious bs statistics. Ancestral Stockhom Syndrome. Thor is a nortic god correct?

my ancestors? my ancestors.. okay thats 80 million people https://www.forbes.com/places/germany/

Germany

GDP $3,701 BAs of December 2018
 
At a Glance
  • GDP Growth: 2.5%
  • GDP per Capita: $44,500
  • Trade Balance/GDP: 7.9%
  • Population: 80.5M
  • Public Debt/GDP: 64%
  • Unemployment: 3.8%
  • Inflation: 1.7%
Forbes Lists
 
Profile

The German economy - the fifth largest economy in the world in PPP terms and Europe's largest - is a leading exporter of machinery, vehicles, chemicals, and household equipment. Germany benefits from a highly skilled labor force, but, like its Western European neighbors, faces significant demographic challenges to sustained long-term growth. Low fertility rates and a large increase in net immigration are increasing pressure on the country's social welfare system and necessitate structural reforms. More »

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30 minutes ago, guilluamezenz said:

my ancestors? my ancestors.. okay thats 80 million people https://www.forbes.com/places/germany/

Germany

GDP $3,701 BAs of December 2018
 
At a Glance
  • GDP Growth: 2.5%
  • GDP per Capita: $44,500
  • Trade Balance/GDP: 7.9%
  • Population: 80.5M
  • Public Debt/GDP: 64%
  • Unemployment: 3.8%
  • Inflation: 1.7%
Forbes Lists
 
Profile

The German economy - the fifth largest economy in the world in PPP terms and Europe's largest - is a leading exporter of machinery, vehicles, chemicals, and household equipment. Germany benefits from a highly skilled labor force, but, like its Western European neighbors, faces significant demographic challenges to sustained long-term growth. Low fertility rates and a large increase in net immigration are increasing pressure on the country's social welfare system and necessitate structural reforms. More »

 

lets work your ancestors in reverse say 40 reproductive cycles and lets statistically average 20 years between born and becoming parents each cycle.

 

2019 if you are a grandparent, that is 2 generations beyond your reproductive cycle cyles living here now. But that is just how life actually works simultaneously here to start with. I will not include siblings of each generation either.

you, 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great, 16 double great, 32, 64, 128.your 20 your parents 20, grandparents 20 etc, I have regressed the body count to 128 people contracted their reproductive cells until you exist now since 160 years ago. 8 reproductive cycles

4 more time backtracking body counts of combined reproductive cells 256, 512, 1,024 2,048 and that is at the date America became an intellectual nation on the world stage. and most likely most of those people weren't in america yet.

 

covered 12 generations still 28 to go. 4,096, 8,192, 16,384, 32,768, 65,536, 131,072, 262,144, 524,288 at 20 reproductive cycles which puts the gregorian calendar to year 1619 and the gregorian calendar doesn't exist yet but the Julian does which didn't account for leap year feb. 29 since Rome was a political state of mind. April fools

 

anyway you get my drift here where compounding interest in economic theory developed intellectually from. Lets play reverse psychology using symbolism over substance and mind over matter philosophies thanks to China giving birth to speculation and misuse to power of suggestion chasing the sunset and coming up with east is east and west is west and the two planes will never be going in the same direction because the damned planet only spins one way.

 

Oh wait, I didn't bring up solstices and equinoxes. every action comes with an opposite and equal reaction at the same time.  Damn if that pesky time is stationary thing just sticks out all the time. and human history is recorded every society never accepting self evident results.

 

I am just 4 generations away from leaving the so called darkages of western civilization and our ancestors of over a 1million lifetimes occupying space where the past ends here and the future forever begins now never the same total sum details again just changed shapes and forms of people reproduced along the way..

 

Your collective mob mentality is so screwed up you all don't even know what time is actually let along how you are physically spaced apart currently..

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you're just playing games now guilluamezenz, 

I think you're being a troll now and doing it for sh1ts and giggles

 

Maybe this is how you get off , trying to stir the pot

 

Many folks on here have presented evidence, not just opinions , views or  anecdotal evidence , empirical evidence disputing your claim

and then you whine about nobody wanting to debate you and they are so mean towards you with the insults.

 

If you're going to be a troll you will be treated like a troll

 

 

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Nordic countries are all moving away from socialism because they found out they can't pay for it. 

 

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2 hours ago, sole result said:

lets work your ancestors in reverse say 40 reproductive cycles and lets statistically average 20 years between born and becoming parents each cycle.

 

2019 if you are a grandparent, that is 2 generations beyond your reproductive cycle cyles living here now. But that is just how life actually works simultaneously here to start with. I will not include siblings of each generation either.

you, 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great, 16 double great, 32, 64, 128.your 20 your parents 20, grandparents 20 etc, I have regressed the body count to 128 people contracted their reproductive cells until you exist now since 160 years ago. 8 reproductive cycles

4 more time backtracking body counts of combined reproductive cells 256, 512, 1,024 2,048 and that is at the date America became an intellectual nation on the world stage. and most likely most of those people weren't in america yet.

 

covered 12 generations still 28 to go. 4,096, 8,192, 16,384, 32,768, 65,536, 131,072, 262,144, 524,288 at 20 reproductive cycles which puts the gregorian calendar to year 1619 and the gregorian calendar doesn't exist yet but the Julian does which didn't account for leap year feb. 29 since Rome was a political state of mind. April fools

 

anyway you get my drift here where compounding interest in economic theory developed intellectually from. Lets play reverse psychology using symbolism over substance and mind over matter philosophies thanks to China giving birth to speculation and misuse to power of suggestion chasing the sunset and coming up with east is east and west is west and the two planes will never be going in the same direction because the damned planet only spins one way.

 

Oh wait, I didn't bring up solstices and equinoxes. every action comes with an opposite and equal reaction at the same time.  Damn if that pesky time is stationary thing just sticks out all the time. and human history is recorded every society never accepting self evident results.

 

I am just 4 generations away from leaving the so called darkages of western civilization and our ancestors of over a 1million lifetimes occupying space where the past ends here and the future forever begins now never the same total sum details again just changed shapes and forms of people reproduced along the way..

 

Your collective mob mentality is so screwed up you all don't even know what time is actually let along how you are physically spaced apart currently..

put down the crack pipe Image result for crack gif

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2 hours ago, chairmanOFTB said:

empirical evidence

 

Redundant.

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2 hours ago, Golfboy said:

Nordic countries are all moving away from socialism because they found out they can't pay for it. 

 

you live behind the times

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7 hours ago, guilluamezenz said:

you live behind the times

You live beyond the time you have and in doing so have no concept of actual life, just notions of if, and, but, same as, like, might, maybe, would, could, should.

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15 hours ago, SixShooter said:

Moron. They have virtually no military budget, thanks to the US. Otherwise they would be conquered by other nations.

 

You liberal TREASON MONKEYS are IDIOTS!

you dont understand economics do you, how do you explain china then huge military budget, 

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2 minutes ago, guilluamezenz said:

you dont understand economics do you, how do you explain china then huge military budget, 

economics, symbolic trading away natural substances for ideas life could be existing beyond what currently exists.

Tax real and pay back reality. nothing becomes everything meaningful to those pretending life isn't self contained to biologically center to the total numbers populating the atmosphere now.

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12 minutes ago, sole result said:

economics, symbolic trading away natural substances for ideas life could be existing beyond what currently exists.

Tax real and pay back reality. nothing becomes everything meaningful to those pretending life isn't self contained to biologically center to the total numbers populating the atmosphere now.

take your meds

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4 minutes ago, guilluamezenz said:

take your meds

what you have to tell yourself to undo what I say behind your eyes and between your ears.

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