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Trumps trade policy taxes Americans to support the Rich

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The article you linked says:  "We repeatedly hear the line that we have to stop China’s theft of “our” intellectual property.  The problem with this argument is that it is not “our” intellectual property that Trump is protecting. After all, very few people have any patents or copyrights that we are worried about China using without compensation.  The intellectual property that Trump and his allies across the political spectrum want to protect belongs to major corporations like Boeing, Pfizer and Microsoft."  

 

That logic baffles me.  Is the author saying I shouldn't care if the Chinese steal intellectual property from Pfizer because that's not me?  So long as I get cheap TV's I shouldn't care what happens to Boeing?   I don't agree.  It is "our" intellectual property.  Americans work for these companies (and the companies that supply them) and own stock in them.  When China takes their business, many Americans are affected.  

 

I think most people who oppose Trump's tariffs do so only because it's Trump.   It was just a few years ago Democrats were demanding 'fair' trade, and opposing TPP, NAFTA and similar.  Then, Trump takes us out of TPP and renegotiates NAFTA.  Isn't his trade policy more in line with the Democratic party than the Republicans?

 

I'm almost always in favor of free trade and against tariffs.  But, it still irks me to see people who have argued against free trade for decades suddenly complaining about these tariffs.  Are they really in favor of free trade?  Or are they just against whatever Trump says?  Whenever I've argued for free trade on this forum, I've mostly met opposition.  Now that Trump is a protectionist, are you all suddenly born again as free traders?  

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On 5/28/2019 at 12:13 AM, Renegade said:

 I don't agree.  It is "our" intellectual property.  Americans work for these companies (and the companies that supply them) and own stock in them.  When China takes their business, many Americans are affected. 

Whose intellectual property is it? A couple of decades ago, I worked for a Very large, U.S.based technology company. As was the practice upon hiring, and as a condition of employment, every Engineer was required to sign away  intellectual property rights to the company. So their IP became the IP of the U.S. based multi-national corporation.

 

It must be emphasized that corporations only have allegiance to shareholders, whether they are based in the US, or elsewhere. Their bottom line dictates whether Americans are affected negatively, or not.

 

If it is advantageous for them to sign away their IP in order for them to gain entry into China, they will do it. If opening up 'Engineering Centers' in China, or elsewhere, and laying off US workers, positively affects shareholders, then they will do that as well.

 

Just because they have HQ located in the US, does not mean they have any special requirements to positively affect US citizens, buy from US suppliers, or even  responsibly pay their share of taxes.

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4 minutes ago, rrober49 said:

Image result for uncle martin china

 

the crap needs to end

 

It will as soon as trump is not the potus anymore.

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2 hours ago, rrober49 said:

Image result for uncle martin china

 

the crap needs to end

 

 

It's a clear knock-off, and counterfeit!!

 

It's clear to me that the garment on the right is of higher quality, being manufactured in Guangzhou by an American company, employing Chinese workers at $1.10 / Hour.

While the knock-off on the left is manufactured in Guangzhou (down the street), employing Chinese workers at $1.10 / Hour.

 

The difference is obvious!

 

 

 

From the Under Armour website:

"Substantially all of our products are manufactured by unaffiliated manufacturers and, fourteen manufacturers produced approximately 65% of our products, with primary locations in Jordan, Philippines, China, Nicaragua. Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Mexico, El Salvador and Honduras. Our products were manufactured by 26 primary manufacturers, operating in 19 countries, with approximately 66% of our products manufactured in Asia, 14% in Central and South America, 15% in the Middle East and 5% in Mexico."

"We have a subsidiary in Hong Kong to support our manufacturing, quality assurance and sourcing efforts for apparel and a subsidiary in

Guangzhou, China to support our manufacturing, quality assurance and sourcing efforts for footwear and accessories."

 

 

 

 

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On 5/28/2019 at 12:13 AM, Renegade said:

Americans work for these companies (and the companies that supply them) and own stock in them.  When China takes their business, many Americans are affected.  

 

This is correct.

 

Moreover, the profits made by American companies are (at least theoretically)  taxable in the United States. When US companies lose business to foreign competitors who have stolen IP, the United States loses tax money.

 

That's another way that Americans are affected, and the amounts are many tens of billions.

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7 hours ago, ExPDXer said:

It's a clear knock-off, and counterfeit!!

 

It's clear to me that the garment on the right is of higher quality, being manufactured in Guangzhou by an American company, employing Chinese workers at $1.10 / Hour.

While the knock-off on the left is manufactured in Guangzhou (down the street), employing Chinese workers at $1.10 / Hour.

 

The difference is obvious!

 

if you wear it 8 hours a day 4 months out of the year it  becomes clearly obvious

 

 but my son gets paid to draw stuff like that  explain to him why he has to compete with junk like that for a living

 

 should he have to draw the majority of  uncler martins logo for free ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, rrober49 said:

 

if you wear it 8 hours a day 4 months out of the year it  becomes clearly obvious

 

After 4 months, I would suspect many things become obvious, regardless of the country of origin.

 

16 hours ago, rrober49 said:

but my son gets paid to draw stuff like that  explain to him why he has to compete with junk like that for a living

 

That’s a cool job, getting paid to draw stuff.  He should get paid the same living wage regardless of whether he draws UA, or uncle martian logos.

 

I don't know why you asking me to explain things to your son....

His current employer should be the one to explain why outsourcing his job to a highly exploited Chinese illustrator saves the corporation money, and therefore benefits the shareholders, who make the profits, which are lightly taxed in order create bonuses, or jobs (somewhere), which is good for America, and therefore good for every Patriotic American, etc. etc. etc.

 

16 hours ago, rrober49 said:

should he have to draw the majority of  uncler martins logo for free ?

 

huh? Unfortunately, the going rate for drawing uncle martian logos is probably less than 10 yuan, which is almost free, but if he keeps his expenses under control,.....who knows.

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what people get paid and why Trademark infringement are two different things ?

 

 moving to China should not be the exemption from it 

 

the Government shuts off the stock market when it fails

 

ZTE

 

building man made islands in the middle of the ocean to change  open water boundaries 

 

it just goes on and on

 

 

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The article points out, shamelessly that most of the technology was in fact stolen by US Corps that took it and went to China and other places. Now, if the tech is that good, it will get stolen, you best believe it's only a matter of time. So what if it is?

Pfizer, what if your best drug research is stolen, and since most of it was actually already on the shelf given to you by the NIH, and still you make a profit while people can't afford the drug?

How many billions does that cost the US tax payer, meanwhile still not having healthcare for all?

How many wrong corporate decisions are made based on greed? 

How many tanks can we sell to Egypt?

China is a big country, four times as many people as in the US. 

They can figure out how to support their own demand by now.

 

Who owns all the US debt? 

Who owns the most coal?

Merry Xmas!!!

Peace!

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On 5/27/2019 at 9:13 PM, Renegade said:

The article you linked says:  "We repeatedly hear the line that we have to stop China’s theft of “our” intellectual property.  The problem with this argument is that it is not “our” intellectual property that Trump is protecting. After all, very few people have any patents or copyrights that we are worried about China using without compensation.  The intellectual property that Trump and his allies across the political spectrum want to protect belongs to major corporations like Boeing, Pfizer and Microsoft."  

 

That logic baffles me.  Is the author saying I shouldn't care if the Chinese steal intellectual property from Pfizer because that's not me?  So long as I get cheap TV's I shouldn't care what happens to Boeing?   I don't agree.  It is "our" intellectual property.  Americans work for these companies (and the companies that supply them) and own stock in them.  When China takes their business, many Americans are affected.  

 

I think most people who oppose Trump's tariffs do so only because it's Trump.   It was just a few years ago Democrats were demanding 'fair' trade, and opposing TPP, NAFTA and similar.  Then, Trump takes us out of TPP and renegotiates NAFTA.  Isn't his trade policy more in line with the Democratic party than the Republicans?

 

I'm almost always in favor of free trade and against tariffs.  But, it still irks me to see people who have argued against free trade for decades suddenly complaining about these tariffs.  Are they really in favor of free trade?  Or are they just against whatever Trump says?  Whenever I've argued for free trade on this forum, I've mostly met opposition.  Now that Trump is a protectionist, are you all suddenly born again as free traders?  

U are always in favor of free trade? So are they. Those who have been granted the patent rights afforded by the US Congress. They won't tax the rich but they will tax the workers to support what they call "free trade".

They also call it, "our intellectual property". And they do it a lot. It's crucial that they make that point loud and clear to their shareholders every day like a bowel movement. Which is something we all need to have, each and every day.

Peace!

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On 5/29/2019 at 12:12 PM, ExPDXer said:

Whose intellectual property is it? A couple of decades ago, I worked for a Very large, U.S.based technology company. As was the practice upon hiring, and as a condition of employment, every Engineer was required to sign away  intellectual property rights to the company. So their IP became the IP of the U.S. based multi-national corporation.

 

I too have worked under this arrangement.  If you're being paid by someone to do work, it makes sense that the payer would own the product.  The federal government uses the same system.  A scientist or engineer that creates something while working for the government does not own that IP.  

 

On 5/29/2019 at 12:12 PM, ExPDXer said:

It must be emphasized that corporations only have allegiance to shareholders, whether they are based in the US, or elsewhere. Their bottom line dictates whether Americans are affected negatively, or not.

 

If it is advantageous for them to sign away their IP in order for them to gain entry into China, they will do it. If opening up 'Engineering Centers' in China, or elsewhere, and laying off US workers, positively affects shareholders, then they will do that as well.

 

Just because they have HQ located in the US, does not mean they have any special requirements to positively affect US citizens, buy from US suppliers, or even  responsibly pay their share of taxes.

 

Foreign investors own about 15% of US listed equities (Who Owns All the Stocks & Bonds?).  So, Americans would 'only' feel about 85% of the impact from theft of IP from a US listed company. 

 

I think you're mostly talking about cases where China purchases IP through a legal agreement.  I those cases, China is acting in the best interests of a nation while individual corporations act in the best interest of a smaller set of shareholders.  Something that's in the best interest of 50,000 shareholders may not be in the best interest of our nation.  That's why it's important for someone to act in the best interest of the USA.  As you rightly point out, this is not the role of a corporation; it's the proper role for elected leaders in Washington (and Berlin, London, etc.).   

 

Just as important, there are many cases where China acquires IP through outright theft.  Their cyber army, for example, is massive and very effective.  Most western nations cooperate to limit this sort of thing.  China encourages it.

 

It's not my intent to slander China.  They're simply playing the same game that all nations play, using their unique situation and talents.  The mistake would be for us to think we don't need to play as well.

 

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On 6/9/2019 at 3:54 AM, TheOldBarn said:

U are always in favor of free trade? So are they. Those who have been granted the patent rights afforded by the US Congress. They won't tax the rich but they will tax the workers to support what they call "free trade".

They also call it, "our intellectual property". And they do it a lot. It's crucial that they make that point loud and clear to their shareholders every day like a bowel movement. Which is something we all need to have, each and every day.

Peace!

 

I try not to use words like 'always' and 'never'.  I like to consider each situation on its own merit.  

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