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JeanMoulin

Biden is the only hope for beating THE PIG

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You all know it's true. 24 democrats reminds me of the clown car load of republicans in the last election. Too many cooks spoil the soup. Get behind Biden and run the best horse in the race.

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4 hours ago, JeanMoulin said:

You all know it's true.

 

The purpose of the primaries is to determine who is the best candidate.  When it works properly, it is a good process as it prevents prematurely choosing an unfit contender.  As of now, Biden has unequaled name-recognition with the general public but that is is bound to change as the primaries drag on.  The field will narrow as less successful candidates drop out. Conceivably, one of them could be Biden.

 

Surveys, at this stage of the game are nearly meaningless.  The first Democratic Primary debate is still over a month away.  The debates always reveal much.  So many things can happen and already, Biden's image has already been dinged, causing it to lose some of its luster.  He could be vulnerable to more;  Or maybe not.   We just don't know until the primary plays out more.  At this early point in the election, a better policy for voters, is to support the best candidate instead of the perceived front-runner.

 

Ideally,  Biden is not my first choice.  I consider him to be a corporate democrat.  At this stage, I am in support of the candidate who I consider to be the very best :--- Elizabeth Warren.  She has taken the Democratic lead in ideas and detailed plans.  And she continues to impress with her integrity.  As when she declined an offer of air time from Fox.  While there is a chance that Warren could emerge as our candidate in the general election, I will continue to support her.

 

But, at the end,  I will be 100% behind whoever emerges as our candidate;  Be it Biden or someone else. 

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I agree,

Biden for the win.

Given the fact that a stupid old white guy won the Republicans,

an old white guy will still probably be the best choice for the Democrats.

Obama gave the country a false hope.

A false hope that a large number of voters aren't as stupid as they seem.

Trump's election proved that they really are.

Biden may not be the best for a Liberal philosophy,

but a win is still better for the country.

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The other thing to keep in mind,

is that the Red States that have a few dozen residents can still jam up the Congress,

so no matter what Democrat gets elected,

even especially a woman,

nothing will get done.

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14 hours ago, JeanMoulin said:

Biden is the only hope for beating THE PIG

You all know it's true.

And you are basing this on ..... what?

Here is his electoral record. He has never won a presidential primary, not even close.

1984 Democratic National Convention: Joe Biden received exactly 1 delegate vote (out of 3,884, or 0.03%), tying Martha Kirkland for last place. Final results:

  • Walter Mondale– 2,191 (56.41%)
  • Gary Hart – 1,201 (30.92%)
  • Jesse Jackson – 466 (12.00%)
  • Thomas Eagleton – 18 (0.46%)
  • George McGovern – 4 (0.10%)
  • John Glenn – 2 (0.05%)
  • Joe Biden – 1 (0.03%)
  • Martha Kirkland – 1 (0.03%)

1988 Democratic National Convention: Joe Biden received exactly 2 delegates. His campaign was derailed rather quickly after a plagiarism scandal culminated in an admission he lifted -- nearly verbatim -- a speech originally given by a British politician.

  • Michael Dukakis – 2,877 (70.09%)
  • Jesse Jackson – 1,219 (29.70%)
  • Richard H. Stallings– 3 (0.07%)
  • Joe Biden – 2 (0.05%)
  • Dick Gephardt – 2 (0.05%)
  • Lloyd Bentsen– 1 (0.02%)
  • Gary Hart– 1 (0.02%)

2008 New Hampshire Democratic Vice Presidential primary: NH is basically an open primary. During his campaign, Stebbins bumper stickers "Vote for Ray Stebbins, Vice President", included phrases "easy to remove" and "so you wouldn’t have it on there for years".

  • Raymond Stebbins– 50,485 (46.93%)

  • William Bryk – 22,965 (21.35%)

  • John Edwards* – 10,553 (9.81%)

  • Barack Obama* 6,402 (5.95%)

  • Bill Richardson* (write-in) – 5,525 (5.14%)

  • Hillary Clinton* (write-in) – 3,419 (3.18%)

  • Joe Biden* – 1,512 (1.41%)

  • Al Gore* – 966 (0.90%)

  • Dennis Kucinich* – 762 (0.71%)

  • Bill Clinton* – 388 (0.36%)

  • John McCain* – 293 (0.27%)

  • Christopher Dodd* – 224 (0.21%)

  • Ron Paul* – 176 (0.16%)

  • Jack Barnes, Jr.* – 95 (0.09%)

  • Mike Gravel* – 91 (0.09%)

  • Joe Lieberman* – 67 (0.06%)

  • Mitt Romney* – 66 (0.06%)

  • Mike Huckabee* – 63 (0.06%)

  • Rudy Giuliani* – 46 (0.04%)

2008 Democratic presidential primaries

His 2008 bid is likely most remembered for his gaffes, including one in which he in-artfully described his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, as "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean."

  • Barack Obama – 16,706,853

  • Hillary Clinton– 16,239,821

  • John Edwards– 742,010

  • Bill Richardson– 89,054

  • Uncommitted – 82,660

  • Dennis Kucinich– 68,482

  • Joe Biden – 64,041

  • Mike Gravel– 27,662

  • Christopher Dodd– 25,300

  • Others – 22,556

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37 minutes ago, ExPDXer said:

And you are basing this on ..... what?

He has never won a presidential primary, not even close.

 

Correct.

 

The smartest person in the group is Buttigieg. Maybe he's like Bill Clinton: smart enough to know how to frame ideas to make them palatable for the 80 to 105 IQ crowd. We'll see.

 

Clinton was better at it than Obama. Obama called him the Secretary of Explaining Stuff. ☺️

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On a conservative forum full of really dumb people , one slightly smarter one wrote:

 

Quote

Honestly, I really hope its Biden.  He is losing it mentally.  I really hope its not buttigieg.  He scares me because he is Clinton smart.

 

I think he or she was talking about Bill Clinton.

 

We don't make our choices based on what conservatives say, but let's examine the relative merits

  1. Buttigieg served in the military during wartime.  Clinton didn't. Advantage Buttigieg.
  2. Clinton was a governor, Buttigieg was only a mayor. Advantage Clinton.
  3. Both were Rhodes scholars. This indicates that at least they're smart. The criteria for a Rhodes scholarship are greater than that though. See below. Tied.
  4. Buttigieg is married and gay, Clinton was married and slept around. Unless something more damaging comes out about Buttigieg's family life, in today's world, since homosexuality and marriage are better accepted, advantage Buttigieg.
  5. Both Buttigieg and Clinton positioned themselves near the center. Bad in the primaries, good in the general. In any case, tied.
  6. People didn't know much about Clinton and don't know much about Buttigieg. You would think that's a tie, but in our information age, you can find dirt on people more easily. Advantage Clinton.
  7. Buttigieg speaks multiple languages and I can confirm he speaks French well. I haven't heard him speak anything else and unless it's German or Yiddish I'm not qualified to comment. Clinton only spoke English. Advantage Buttigieg.
  8. Clinton really was good at framing ideas so the majority of dim people could understand the ideas. Unless Buttigieg demonstrates that soon, Advantage Clinton.

To me, right now, they look tied.

 

Criteria for a Rhodes scholarship:

  • literary and scholastic attainments
  • energy to use one's talents to the full
  • truth, courage, devotion to duty, sympathy for and protection of the weak, kindliness, unselfishness and fellowship
  • moral force of character and instincts to lead, and to take an interest in one's fellow beings

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I am growing partial to Pete Buttigieg.  He is smart, young, 37 and he stands on the good side of the issues:

 

According to PBS:

Quote

 

Known as “Mayor Pete,” Pete Buttigieg is the two-term mayor of South Bend, Indiana. He’s a Harvard graduate, part-time pianist, “smart sewer” advocate and a prominent member of the millennial generation — Buttigieg recently celebrated his 37th birthday.

Buttigieg is also a Rhodes Scholar and member of the Navy Reserves. In 2013, two years into his first term as mayor, he was deployed to Afghanistan for seven months.

Former President Barack Obama once called Buttigieg — who won the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage award for an essay about Bernie Sanders — the future of the Democratic Party. In 2016, Buttigieg launched an unsuccessful campaign for chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Buttigieg would be the first openly gay president, and the youngest person in history, to occupy the Oval Office.

Here is where Buttigieg stands on the key issues in the 2020 presidential election.

Climate change: Thinks climate change is a national security threat. Supports the Paris climate accord.

Buttigieg considers climate change a national security threat and a “longterm” problem that will especially impact younger Americans and future generations. He supports every U.S. house becoming “net zero” consumer of energy, and is in favor of the government subsidizing solar panels. Buttigieg was one of 407 U.S. mayors who signed a pact to adhere to the Paris climate accord after President Donald Trump pulled out of the international agreement 2017. He also supports the “Green New Deal” proposals on climate and energy being floated by progressive House Democrats.

Economy/trade: Supports labor. Thinks NAFTA resulted in significant jobs losses.

The Democrat thinks NAFTA caused irreplaceable job losses across the industrial Midwest. He is a strong supporter of labor and union groups, and says Democrats must work harder to advocate for working people and help them achieve economic stability.

Guns: Supports universal background checks.

As the mayor of South Bend, Buttigieg is a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a group that advocates for gun control legislation at the state and federal level. He also supports universal background checks, and opposed allowing guns in schools and so-called “Stand Your Ground” self-defense gun laws.

Foreign policy: Supports pulling troops out of Afghanistan.

Buttigieg says his experience serving as a Navy intelligence officer in Afghanistan helped shaped his views on American policy in the Middle East. Like other 2020 Democratic candidates, he has criticized Trump for conducting foreign policy by tweet. Buttigieg supports pulling troops out of Afghanistan, but has criticized Trump’s plans to withdraw from Syria. He has also said Iran poses the greatest threat to Israel in the Middle East.

Health care: Supports single-payer system.

Buttigieg says he’s “all for” a single-payer health care system. But he has said he wouldn’t immediately jump to single-payer from the current system. Instead, Buttigieg would first implement an all-payer rate setting — a system that would not eliminate private insurance companies.

Immigration: Supports a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

Buttigieg supports the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, or DACA, and would like to see Congress pass a law creating pathway to citizenship for young undocumented immigrants brought to the country illegally as children. He also opposes the Trump administration’s aggressive deportation policies, and was involved in a high-profile case in Granger, Indiana, which resulted in the deportation of an undocumented immigrant who had lived in the U.S for 17 years.

 

He also vehemently opposes sending American troops to the southern border, calling the move “a waste of their time.” The South Bend mayor says American foreign policy dictates troops should only be deployed if all other modes of diplomacy fail, and the U.S. should return to that policy.

Social issues: Supports a federal non-discrimination amendment.

Buttigieg favors passing the Federal Equality Act, an amendment to existing civil rights legislation that would give federal non-discrimination protections to LBGTQ people. He opposes the Trump administration’s ban on transgender people serving in the military. He also supports gender reassignment surgery for transgender people in prison.

 

 

 

 

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IMO:---  At this early point in the election, it is a better policy for voters, is to support their most ideal candidate instead of the perceived front-runner.

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No thanks to Joe Biden.  None of his policies will actually inspire people.  All he wants is to keep the status quo.  Obama won because he didn't want to keep the status Quo.  His whole slogan was "Hope and Change".  Biden's whole slogan is "Let's work with Republicans to make sure they can implement their worst policies while not improving things for anyone so credit card companies in Deleware can get rich."  (Okay, that's not his actual slogan, but it might as well be)

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I vote for whomever wins the Democratic Primary - as I must. 

We have a long way to go as Bludog mentioned previously. We do need to invigorate the stage with policy, and integral ideas that will right some of the wrongs we all are worried about in our Democracy. The US has a long way to go regarding rebuilding our infrastructure, our voice in the world regarding climate change. 

 

I hold out hope for Elizabeth Warren, but whomever wins the Democratic Party Primary gets my vote. Before then, we need to be critical and weigh in with what we feel is needed from a president. One of the major issues I see politically is picking up more congressional seats as well as winning back the Senate.

 

I would love to see Buttigieg in the Senate for awhile. 

 

Peace!

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I like at least 4 or 5 other candidates before Biden. Warren,Swalwell,Sanders,Yang, O'Rourkr. Buttigieg I don't know very well but from the little I hear he may have a hard time getting African American voters to support him. I think Yangs freedom dividend is a great idea and would go a long way towards helping those in greatest need.

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7 hours ago, fourputt said:

Buttigieg I don't know very well but from the little I hear he may have a hard time getting African American voters to support him.

 

That's true at the moment, and it is one of the two challenges he faces up to the primaries:

 

- Can he learn to speak in a manner that resonates with conservative white working class and unemployed voters in the Midwest, and all over America?

- Can he connect with African American voters and gain their support?

 

The master at both those abilities was Bill Clinton. Can he persuade ol' Bill to give him some master classes? Or learn it in his own?

 

If he can learn those two things, he'll be great. If not, he'll be a potential VP for Kamala Harris.

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On 5/30/2019 at 4:31 AM, laripu said:

 

That's true at the moment, and it is one of the two challenges he faces up to the primaries:

 

- Can he learn to speak in a manner that resonates with conservative white working class and unemployed voters in the Midwest, and all over America?

- Can he connect with African American voters and gain their support?

 

The master at both those abilities was Bill Clinton. Can he persuade ol' Bill to give him some master classes? Or learn it in his own?

 

If he can learn those two things, he'll be great. If not, he'll be a potential VP for Kamala Harris.

He's a smart fellow, but he doesn't talk much about policy, and yet, since he's new he gets a lot of attention. 

I see him in the senate, let him be a good voice in the senate. 

I guess I want a leader who knows policy. I want someone who talks policy upfront, and someone I can trust who will stick to that policy that they speak of, but also someone who will just say, we need a congress who will get the job done.

 

Peace!

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6 hours ago, TheOldBarn said:

I guess I want a leader who knows policy. I want someone who talks policy upfront, and someone I can trust who will stick to that policy that they speak of, but also someone who will just say, we need a congress who will get the job done

 

I like this, and agree.

 

Unfortunately, to do this they need to get elected, so they get political and triangulate support from various sides.

 

We'll need to hear much more from all the candidates, both in policy and ability, before we make a choice for the nominee. But I know I'd prefer a person younger than Biden, Sanders, or Warren.

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18 minutes ago, laripu said:

We'll need to hear much more from all the candidates, both in policy and ability, before we make a choice for the nominee. But I know I'd prefer a person younger than Biden, Sanders, or Warren.

Given that women have longer life expectancy, I''m assuming the relative cognitive decline would also be less.

So, I would add a couple years to female candidates age threshold.

There may also be a too young threshold, other than the 35 yr old requirement.

 

Sen. Warren could serve two full presidential terms and still be 2 years younger than Pelosi's current age.

 

Age (in descending order):

Pelosi:     79

Sanders:  77

Biden:       76

Reagon:    74    (*Oldest President -at time of re-election)

Trump:      72

Warren:     69

Harris:       54

O' Rourke: 46

Kennedy:   43    (*Youngest President -at time of election)

Buttigiege: 37

 

Presidential requirement: > 35

 

 

 

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On 5/29/2019 at 10:38 PM, fourputt said:

I like at least 4 or 5 other candidates before Biden. Warren,Swalwell,Sanders,Yang, O'Rourkr. Buttigieg I don't know very well but from the little I hear he may have a hard time getting African American voters to support him. I think Yangs freedom dividend is a great idea and would go a long way towards helping those in greatest need.

 

in order to win the presidency,  (beat trump) the democratic candidate must be able to garner votes from republican voters. this should be a criteria in the selection of the democrat party's choice for the  presidential candidate. 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jerra- said:

 

in order to win the presidency,  (beat trump) the democratic candidate must be able to garner votes from republican voters. this should be a criteria in the selection of the democrat party's choice for the  presidential candidate.

 

This is not true at all.... Democratic Presidential candidates do not need one d*#!  republican voter.

 

Even in EC calculations, the R Party lead does not exceed the D+I number of registered voters.

There are 44 million registered Democrats 40%

There are 32 million registered Republicans 29%

There are 31 million registered Independents 28%

about 61% of registered voters actually turned out on election day 2016,

and.. there are about 20 million eligible voters that are not registered to vote (see below)

 

FRC2018071201-table1.png

 

These are things that can be to strengthen the Democratic numbers..

 

  1. Streamline voter registration with automatic voter registration, same-day voter registration (SDR),preregistration of 16- and 17-year-olds, and online voter registration
  2. Make voting more convenient with in-person early voting, no-excuse absentee voting, and vote-at-home with vote centers
  3. Provide sufficient resources in elections and ensure voting is accessible
  4. Restore rights for formerly incarcerated people
  5. Strengthen civics education in schools
  6. Invest in integrated voter engagement (IVE) and outreach

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21 minutes ago, ExPDXer said:

Age (in descending order):

Pelosi:     79

Sanders:  77

Biden:       76

Reagon:    74    (*Oldest President -at time of re-election)

Trump:      72

Warren:     69

Harris:       54

O' Rourke: 46

Kennedy:   43    (*Youngest President -at time of election)

Buttigiege: 37

 

Presidential requirement: > 35

 

You missed a few, in particular Cory Booker, who is 50. He could garner the African American vote. Plus, like Buttigieg and Bill Clinton, he was also Rhodes Scholar.

 

He's a Baptist but has an excellent and non-cynical knowledge of Judaism, which can also help him get votes.

 

He seems to be a fighter for poor people. I like Booker, and Harris, and Buttigieg.

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29 minutes ago, ExPDXer said:

Democratic Presidential candidates do not need one d*#!  republican voter.

 

True.

 

But it couldn't hurt to get some Republicans that are so disaffected by Trump's crimes and incompetence that they'll vote for a Democrat.

 

On the other hand, I don't want to sacrifice liberal votes to gain votes from conservatives.

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1 hour ago, laripu said:

 

True.

 

But it couldn't hurt to get some Republicans that are so disaffected by Trump's crimes and incompetence that they'll vote for a Democrat.

 

On the other hand, I don't want to sacrifice liberal votes to gain votes from conservatives.

 

 

republicans want democrat votes too. 

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I don't particularly like Booker either.  He's got a Betsy DeVos problem.  Yes, he voted against her.  But his ideas for schools are very much like her.  And he served along side her.  Anyone who does not support public education will have trouble getting my support in the primaries.  And getting any of my money in the general election.

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23 hours ago, Cecelia said:

I don't particularly like Booker either.  He's got a Betsy DeVos problem.  Yes, he voted against her.  But his ideas for schools are very much like her.  And he served along side her.  Anyone who does not support public education will have trouble getting my support in the primaries.  And getting any of my money in the general election.

 

Booker is a bushel of apples. One's got a blemish.  Don't throw out the whole bushel.

 

No one is perfect.

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As a teacher and a mother, Public Education is my top priority.  Education is NOT an issue I will compromise on. 

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17 hours ago, Cecelia said:

As a teacher and a mother, Public Education is my top priority.  Education is NOT an issue I will compromise on. 

Public Education - Two of my favorite words, (whether used separately or together). As in Public Good, Educated Public, Public Spaces, ....etc

 

Whoever started this for-profit, private education (using public funds) idea anyway?

They need some education in civics.

Good public school teachers do not get paid enough, and are not supported by their local elected officials,  especially in southern red states.

It's almost as if they do not want an Educated Public. A winning football team seems like their main concern.

 

 

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