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The federal Democratic Party really ought not quibble about this. They should show some resolve.

 

Trump richly deserves impeachment. The Mueller report makes that clear. By choosing a less principled, more political approach, they will be seen as unprincipled and political.

 

By choosing impeachment, they force GOP senators to show themselves as either principled or political. This, showing some guts, gives them a better chance in the upcoming election too.

 

I know people will not agree with me. My own wife doesn't agree with me. But I agree with Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris on this.

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4 minutes ago, laripu said:

The federal Democratic Party really ought not quibble about this. They should show some resolve.

 

Trump richly deserves impeachment. The Mueller report makes that clear. By choosing a less principled, more political approach, they will be seen as unprincipled and political.

 

By choosing impeachment, they force GOP senators to show themselves as either principled or political. This, showing some guts, gives them a better chance in the upcoming election too.

 

I know people will not agree with me. My own wife doesn't agree with me. But I agree with Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris on this.

100%. Agree with you.

Elizabeth Warren is correct.I really am impressed by her leadership on issues lately.

I read the report, and Mueller served up obstruction charges to the House on a silver platter.

 

It is a matter of principle, not politics. Impeachment, actually could be the last opportunity to stop very bad things from happening.

A license to throw the election in very serious ways, knowing that there will no accountability, they may even be blatant about it. Then all this talk about 2020 election strategy goes right out the window. Does anyone think that Barr will persue any election fraud, or foreign influence if it benefits Trump?

 

Pelosi is not even trying to hide the political calculation behind her Investigate, but don't Impeach, strategy.

To me, that just boils down to Democrats joining Barr, Trump, and Senate Republicans all saying "nothing to see here, no Impeachable offenses.

It is hypocritical to condemn House / Senate Republicans for not standing up to Trump's unconstitutional actions, then abdicate responsibility when it lands in your lap.

Pelosi is the only one who can make that decision, and she made it months before she read a word of the report.

In fact, avoiding this responsibility borders on a violation of their oath of office.

Some say that impeachment will fail in the Senate because they would get the votes from Republican Senators, and that the House could focus on other issues....

I disagree, letting democrats off the hook on impeachment means letting Republicans off the hook.

Beside the same could be said about any legislation passed by the House. Look at the gun bill, etc.etc.

Using that argument, Democrats might as well go home, because we effectively give Senate Republicans, & Trump pre-approval authority over everything the House considers.

 

Aside from the principle, is it a good political calculation pour cold water on the Democratic base of voters, while Trump is pouring gasoline on his base?

 

PS. nice to have you back, it's been a little anemic here lately, but at least it's not noisy.

 

 

 

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David Frum, is a conservative who has been a speechwriter for George W. Bush, and is now often seen on CNN and MSNBC. (I also know of him because his mother was Barbara Frum, a well-known and beloved Canadian radio and TV personality.)

 

David Frum is a never-Trumper. He found some lines in the Mueller report worth repeating.
Here's Frum's page and here is his tweet:

D5m4QWrWAAATPex.jpg

 

Even more interesting is that the words (Vol II p 77) immediately after the ones he highlighted above say

"In addition, some witnesses said that Trump was aware that Harm to Ongoing Matter at a time when public reports stated that Russian intelligence officials were behind the hacks, and that Trump privately sought information about future WikiLeaks releases."

 

From this it should be clear to anyone of even Republican intelligence that Trump fired Comey to stop an FBI investigation that he knew would uncover either illegal or embarrassing facts. What's more, the "harm to ongoing matter" indicates that those facts will be uncovered anyway in due time.

 

The longer this man is in office the more harm he does to American society.

He must be impeached and convicted.

 

Here's another quote from Frum, who, despite being a conservative, has received his mother's gift for language:

"There hasn’t been a bully born who won’t burst into tears when he sees his own blood."

 

 

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Agree with you both! No one is above the law. That's the message here. The articles of impeachment must be utilized when a president breaks the law in the interest of protecting himself while at the same time misusing the highest office in the land. I think the Mueller report clearly outlines several counts of obstruction of justice during an ongoing  investigation of Russian hacking and use of fake news propaganda during the 2016 election. Mueller clearly states that Russia performed this illegal act in the effort to sway the election toward Donald Trump. He also states that the Trump campaign was well aware of this and did nothing about it. Donald J. Trump then took many steps to hinder or even quash the investigation. 

 

That's more than enough for impeachment right there. It has nothing to do with politics. Both parties are obligated to carry forth an honest and factual proceeding towards impeachment and then Vote.

 

Peace!

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Pelosi shuts down key members of the Judiciary Commitee's recommendation to begin Impeachment

05/20/2019

Reps. David Cicilline of Rhode Island, Jamie Raskin of Maryland and Joe Neguse of Colorado — all members of Democratic leadership — pushed to begin impeachment proceedings during a leadership meeting in Pelosi's office.

Raskin — a former law professor — said he wasn't advocating impeaching Trump but suggested that opening an impeachment inquiry would strengthen their legal position while allowing Democrats to move forward with their legislative agenda.

 

Pelosi dismissed this argument, asking Raskin whether he wanted to shut down the other five committees working on Trump investigations in favor of the Judiciary Committee.

“You want to tell Elijah Cummings to go home?” Pelosi quipped.

Member of the Judiciary responded...

Reps. David Cicilline: "I think if this pattern by the president continues, where he's going to impede and prevent and undermine our ability to gather evidence to do our job, we're going to be left with no choice. It's a means where we can collect that information ... We need to have the ability to gather the evidence."

Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.): "If McGahn doesn't show tomorrow, I think we're at an inflection point. If we can't get information, I think we have to start proceeding down this (impeachment) path."

Pelosi: “Democats have invested this much time. I don’t know why we would say McGahn, that’s it.”

 

Rep. Steve Cohen : Asserted that she was simply afraid impeachment would cost her the House majority. of Tennessee stood up and demanded Trump's impeachment. “President Bill Clinton faced impeachment proceedings “over sex” while Trump is “raping the country.”

 

 Pelosi: "This is not about politics, it's about what's best for the American people. We’ve been in this thing for almost five months and now we’re getting some results.“

 

DCCC chairwoman Cheri Bustos (Ill.):,  a fierce Pelosi defender and ally, grew angry and scolded the lawmakers that an impeachment inquiry would further distract from legislating. pushed back as well, noting that when the DCCC asked voters in focus groups what topics they cared about, Mueller’s inquiry ranked near the bottom.

 

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On 5/4/2019 at 8:25 PM, TheOldBarn said:

I think the Mueller report clearly outlines several counts of obstruction of justice during an ongoing  investigation of Russian hacking and use of fake news propaganda during the 2016 election. Mueller clearly states that Russia performed this illegal act in the effort to sway the election toward Donald Trump. He also states that the Trump campaign was well aware of this and did nothing about it. Donald J. Trump then took many steps to hinder or even quash the investigation. 

 

That's more than enough for impeachment right there. It has nothing to do with politics. Both parties are obligated to carry forth an honest and factual proceeding towards impeachment and then Vote.

 

You took the words right out of my frontal lobes!  :)  Seriously, I agree 100%

 

If Democrats keep saying that Trump has committed crimes of sufficient for impeachment, and then don't impeach, they will come to be seen as impotent talkers, not doers. Calculating politicians, not people with a mission. Not people to whom you can entrust the country.

 

If they do impeach, the Republican senators will likely acquit Trump.

 

That fact can be used in the coming election, to slam the Republicans as toadies to a criminal regime.  It's not about sperm on a dress, it's about real crimes, so the Republican senators will be accessories after the fact.  Hang that label on them.

 

But if the Democrats do an all-out media blitz designed to hang Trump's crimes on him, and get the senators feeling Pencive, <ahem> I mean pensive, then there's a chance they can get him out. No risk, no reward.

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4 hours ago, laripu said:

You took the words right out of my frontal lobes!  :)  Seriously, I agree 100%

Me too!

900 Prosecutors also agree:

 

STATEMENT BY FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

And here are a few items analyzed by Lawfare....

Efforts to fire Mueller

Obstructive act (p. 87): Former White House Counsel Don McGahn is a “credible witness” in providing evidence that Trump indeed attempted to fire Mueller. This “would qualify as an obstructive act” if the firing “would naturally obstruct the investigation and any grand jury proceedings that might flow from the inquiry.”

Nexus (p. 89): “Substantial evidence” indicates that, at this point, Trump was aware that “his conduct was under investigation by a federal prosecutor who could present any evidence of federal crimes to a grand jury.”

Intent (p. 89): “Substantial evidence indicates that the President’s attempts to remove the Special Counsel were linked to the Special Counsel’s oversight of investigations that involved the President’s conduct[.]”

 

Efforts to curtail Mueller

Obstructive act (p. 97): Trump’s effort to force Sessions to confine the investigation to only investigating future election interference “would qualify as an obstructive act if it would naturally obstruct the investigation and any grand jury proceedings that might flow from the inquiry.” “Taken together, the President’s directives indicate that Sessions was being instructed to tell the Special Counsel to end the existing investigation into the President and his campaign[.]”

Nexus (p. 97): At the relevant point, “the existence of a grand jury investigation supervised by the Special Counsel was public knowledge.”

Intent (p. 97): “Substantial evidence” indicates that Trump’s efforts were “intended to prevent further investigative structiny of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct.”

Order to McGahn to deny Trump’s order to fire Mueller

Obstructive act (p. 118): This effort “would qualify as an obstructive act if it had the natural tendency to constrain McGahn from testifying truthfully or to undermine his credibility as a potential witness[.]” There is “some evidence” that Trump genuinely believed press reports that he had ordered McGahn to fire Mueller were wrong. However, “[o]ther evidence cuts against that understanding of the president’s conduct”—and the special counsel lists a great deal more evidence on this latter point.

Nexus (p. 119): At this point “the Special Counsel’s use of a grand jury had been further confirmed by the return of several indictments.” Mueller’s office had indicated to Trump’s lawyers that it was investigating obstruction, and Trump knew that McGahn had already been interviewed by Mueller on the topic. “That evidence indicates the President’s awareness” that his efforts to fire Mueller were relevant to official proceedings. Trump “likely contemplated the ongoing investigation and any proceedings arising from it” in directing McGahn to create a false record of the earlier interaction.

Intent (p. 120): “Substantial evidence indicates that … the President acted for the purpose of influencing McGahn’s account in order to deflect or prevent further scrutiny” of Trump.

 

This is the box that Dem leadership has put us into. Pelosi et al seem to think that timidity, and weakness are positive traits to be running on.

If voters wanted timidity, and impotence, why wouldn't they just vote for Republicans?

 

I find it very disheartening that Pelosi, and Trump both want to run out the clock, and hope for the best, or change the subject.

In the meantime, Trump gets his way, and will do who knows what for the next 2 years.

Then if Trump gets re-elected, we might as well get the throne, and crown ready.

 

 

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1. Trump ridicules Muslims and Latinos with racists statements. He has painted most Latino immigrates as criminals. 

2. Beyond the obstruction that is well documented by the Mueller Team, Trump gives his hand picked Attorney General full power to investigate what he calls a Coup on his presidency, a coup that was generated by what he calls the Deep State. 

3. At a scheduled meeting with Democratic leaders regarding infrastructure, Trump waltzes in and says that you can't have it both ways. You can't investigate (him), and then get anything done that will take his help. Further proof of obstruction in front of the whole world.

4. After his little temper tantrum, and after everyone sees him and his administration for what it actually is, he paints Nancy Pelosi as losing touch with reality. They take filmed Pelosi public statements and doctor them to make her look as though she is losing her mind. This is shown on Fox News and amplified all over the internet on Far Right Nut job sites.

5. His hand picked Attorney General, Bill Bar, agrees that US intelligence agencies, namely the FBI, has spied on the president. 

6. The Fake News - How many times has Trump complained about the fake news while at the same time spreading Fake news is a good question.

7. Trump has done all he can to make Putin look good. He has tried his best to protect the Saudi Prince Mohammad Bin Salmon. To shield him from his ordered killing of an American. And to shield the Saudi Kingdom from bombing thousands of innocent civilians in Yemen. 

 

Just a couple of things I thought I'd mention. There are scores more. He said non-stop during his campaign that he wanted to deal with China and the way they keep the Yuan low so that American workers cannot compete in a fair way. Instead, he's placed tariffs on 200 billion dollars of trade in an effort to protect US corporate patents. So that US company's can manufacture their goods in China and still have their US patent rights protected. This amounts to a tax on US consumers to support the rich. 

 

The new antiabortion laws are put in place to challenge Roe Vs Wade because they finally got the Supreme Court Mitch McConnell has worked for his entire career. 

 

Pelosi is doing the right thing here. Oversight in order to set the records straight for all Americans. Impeachment won't be a choice, it will be a necessity very soon. 

 

Peace!

 

 

 

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