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The results of CAPITALISM

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1 minute ago, Skans said:

Steve Jobs dropped out of College.  I think Bill Gates did too.  Obviously they neither of them learned anything from some dumb text book about building computers.

I'm guessing that's about all you know about either of them.

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3 minutes ago, splunch said:

I'm guessing that's about all you know about either of them.

What I know or do not know about them is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that I provided two perfect examples to prove Leftwinger wrong.

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6 minutes ago, Skans said:

Steve Jobs dropped out of College.  I think Bill Gates did too.  Obviously they neither of them learned anything from some dumb text book about building computers.

 

Did either of them employ an engineer? 

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2 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

Did either of them employ an engineer? 

I don't think they had any money after they quit college.  They were their own garage-engineers.  Later on, after they got really rich, probably. 

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10 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

Capitalism did not invent the university. Right wing idiots don't know shiit about education.

This is true. Universities were founded by the Holy Mother Church because illiterate priests  kept inventing their own biblical references. Then the Church decided to allow the princes to study at their universities so they would not order their troops to  loot and burn down monasteries, rape the nuns and bugger the monks.

Inventors were not much inspired by traditional universities, but technical universities like RPI, MIT and Cal Tech were founded for that purpose. Jefferson himself was an inventor,  a pretty poor businessman (he had lots of decent land and slaves and still needed to be bailed out),  and I think he had a lot to do with  technical education.

 

Up until after WWII, if you wanted to be in businessman, you did not attend any university, but went to for-profit commercial schools, where stenography, typing, accounting, auditing, bookkeeping and related subjects were taught. After WWII, rich businessmen funded  university Departments of Business, like Wharton School, because the business ed taught at for-profit schools tended to suck.

 

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Just now, Skans said:

I don't think they had any money after they quit college.  They were their own garage-engineers.  Later on, after they got really rich, probably. 

 

So no engineer was every employed. You sure about that?

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6 minutes ago, Skans said:

What I know or do not know about them is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that I provided two perfect examples to prove Leftwinger wrong.

There are biographies of both Jobs and Gates.

Gates'  major act was realizing that money was in the software rather than the hardware, and that MS DOS was  the best software ever, so he bought it for what was comparatively a song.

\

Anyone who studied BASIC on an Apple II knows how totally awful it was to try to program the damned thing. One wrong letter and nothing worked.

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3 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

So no engineer was every employed. You sure about that?

I suggest you all read up on this. There are no secrets about this.

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Just now, XavierOnassis said:

I suggest you all read up on this. There are no secrets about this.

 

You are the least educated person here. You're a troll like Spycar. Go the fukk away.

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10 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

So no engineer was every employed. You sure about that?

That's not what I said.  This is:   "I don't think they had any money after they quit college.  They were their own garage-engineers.  Later on, after they got really rich, probably."

 

 

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1 minute ago, Skans said:

That's not what I said.  This is:   "I don't think they had any money after they quit college.  They were their own garage-engineers.  Later on, after they got really rich, probably."

 

 

 

They never took a math class in their lives? You sure?

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5 hours ago, Scout said:

The results of capitalism are $20 trillion of federal gov't debt and trillions more in personal debt.

Well the results of the way WE have done capitalism. That debt was run up on purpose by the conservatives. Reagan said he would cut taxes raise defense spending and balance the budget. The debt exploded and we went from the worlds largest creditor nation to the worlds largest debtor nation in four years. George Bush jr said he would cut taxes raise defense spending and balance the budget and the debt exploded again. Then Trump said the same thing and DID the same thing. You might ask why since it never worked why they keep trying it. The answer is because it DOES WORK. It works making the rich richer and the poor poorer and skyrocketing the debt. It didn't work doing what they SAID it would do but they knew it wouldn't.

 

When Reagan tried it his budget guru TOLD the Atlantic the  tax cut was a Trojan horse to bring down the top rate. He thought it would ALLOW them to cut spending in the hard places like SS and Medicare.  THAT is the agenda. They LOST the argument about how we should let poor people DIE and children STARVE  and abandon our social spending. So they want to run up a debt so high that they can say it would be NICE if we could afford to feed hungry children and take care of the people who are too old to keep working but WE CANT AFFORD IT

 

This is how WE did capitalism.  There are other ways.  The best way would be to have a serious discussion about a dialectic approach to capitalism and socialism taking the best from both and countering the WORST from both. Whenever you look to the market forces to fix things or leave them to the profit motive that profit becomes SACRED and more important than what you are trying to do. That is why things like Education and Healthcare should NEVER be left to the profit motive. We could start the discussion there

 

 

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Gates and Jobs were both the valued sons of upper middle class families. Neither was ever poor. Read the Wikipedia bios of them.

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42 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

Socialism is not a monarchy, you fool. Inflation in the USSR  ansd Eastern Europe. was minuscule. Inflation does not seem to be much of a problem in China, the largest communist system of them all. Chongo has a knack for finding the stupidest conspiracies and making them sound even more stupid. When Russia decided to abandon Communism, inflation went wild.

 

Capitalism is a system for developing companies  by combining the capital of multiple individuals. It is not per se a political system.

 

The deficit is a result of the fact that legislatures can get votes for cutting taxes or providing services, but find it difficult to get any votes for increasing taxes and denying services.This is not something to blame capitalism for. We CAN blame Reagan and the constant harping by Republicans that tax cuts always pay for themselves. This has happened, not very spectacularly, when JFK was president, but that was a rare fluke that has not been repeated.

 

There is an ideal tax rate that will maximize both growth and government revenues, but it is not a constant rate, and varies throughout the economy.

 

Wars have been a tested and true method for getting the public to accept higher taxes, but lately this has not been tried.

 

Chongo is an idiot.  Socialism is an ECONOMY and monarchy is a GOVERNMENT the two are not the same kinds of systems  you could HAVE a socialism monarchy or a democratic socialism or any combination of type of government and economies

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13 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

You are the least educated person here. You're a troll like Spycar. Go the fukk away.

You are aggressively ignorant. You don't know, you apparently think you know it all, and you can't discuss diddly with out being obnoxious and insulting.

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Quote

Anyone who studied BASIC on an Apple II knows how totally awful it was to try to program the damned thing. One wrong letter and nothing worked.

This had nothing to do with Apple or the Apple II.  It was endemic to programing - whether it was BASIC, Fortran, COBOL and other antiquated systems of programing.  These systems were very logic-based and yes, they were difficult to trouble shoot. 

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32 minutes ago, splunch said:

Tesla is a famous example of a talented person who sought invention and discovery because that's who he was.  He was not any sort of a business mind and had zero interest in it.  Pure business people, capitalists of the highest order, who excel at lassoing resources and harnessing them to do their will, accomplish great things, and can push fledgling industries into maturity.  But that is more innovation in terms of process and organization and finance than invention or discovery.

 

 

Jonas Salk invented the polio vaccine and could have become rich beyond the dreams of avarice but he didnt patent it. He said it didnt belong to him it belonged to the world. No many times inventors really dont CARE what it makes them they want to invent

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3 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

Gates and Jobs were both the valued sons of upper middle class families. Neither was ever poor. Read the Wikipedia bios of them.

So what if they were never poor!  Who said they were?  They were average middle class people.

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1 minute ago, Debs said:

Chongo is an idiot.  Socialism is an ECONOMY and monarchy is a GOVERNMENT the two are not the same kinds of systems  you could HAVE a socialism monarchy or a democratic socialism or any combination of type of government and economies

Of course you are right.

Chongo's mind seems to have been possessed by some truly wacko online nutjobs.

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10 minutes ago, leftwinger said:

 

They never took a math class in their lives? You sure?

What I am sure of is that you have never taken a logic class in your life.  And, I am beginning to think that you skipped a lot of reading and writing classes too.

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1 minute ago, Skans said:

This had nothing to do with Apple or the Apple II.  It was endemic to programing - whether it was BASIC, Fortran, COBOL and other antiquated systems of programing.  These systems were very logic-based and yes, they were difficult to trouble shoot. 

No it had everything to do with it. Editing programs on an Apple II was a nightmare. You could not backspace. the tools of a word processor were not available.

The most time I ever wasted in a college class (except for Badminton and Golf) was this Pascal course taught at Barry U. I passed the class, but I learned nothing useful other than anger management. No one in that class ever wrote a program that would do anything useful.

We were told that Pascal would teach us logic. It did not. No one ever wrote anything even modestly commercially viable in Pascal.

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17 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

There are biographies of both Jobs and Gates.

Gates'  major act was realizing that money was in the software rather than the hardware, and that MS DOS was  the best software ever, so he bought it for what was comparatively a song.

\

Anyone who studied BASIC on an Apple II knows how totally awful it was to try to program the damned thing. One wrong letter and nothing worked.

 

Actually, Bill Gates tried to purchase CP/M from Gary Killdall after landing a contract with IBM to provide an operating system for its future personal computers. IBM was somehow blind to the future and did not insist on the full rights because they though PCs would be nothing. One of the biggest mistakes ever.

 

Gates met with Gary Killdall in Monterey. Killdall was blind drunk (as per usual) and told Gates to f*ck off. So Gates and his team reverse engineered CP/M and Killdall never sued.

 

Bill

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5 minutes ago, Skans said:

So what if they were never poor!  Who said they were?  They were average middle class people.

Just read the bio on Wikipedia. You are wrong, Their families were not "average".

They were both great at math, of course.

Jobs made a lot of money selling a hack that allowed the user to make free long distance calls.

It is pretty clear that if he had been Black or Hispanic, he would have been jailed for that.

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1 hour ago, BeAChooser said:

 

No, I guess you are absolutely STUCK ON STUPID.   You don't seem to grasp, even despite all that's been revealed about the DOJ and FBI in just the last 2 years, that they've been in the pocket of the Clintons and DNC for nearly 30 years.    I *guess* you are incapable of learning, Scout. 

 

 

And on top of being STUCK ON STUPID, you're an outright liar, Scout.  

 

Not only is there evidence that Clinton sexually assaulted and raped women, but I have posted repeatedly on this subject.  

 

One case in particular you should know about.  

 

Don't you remember, Scout?

 

You've repeatedly tried to smear and dismiss Juanita Broaddrick's accusation against Clintons by posting the affidavit she signed.  

 

Don't you remember my response to you each time you tried that?  

 

Don't you remember?  Or is your memory completely shot on top of everything else?   Is your memory worse than you claimed Juanita Broadrick was, snowflake?

 

One exchange was in October of 2017 when I cited and quoted an earlier exchange between us back in April 2017.  

 

Here, let me just link and quote my October response to you ... so that folks can see you're a LIAR.

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/220204-wonder-why-mueller-hasnt-approached-assange/?page=8&tab=comments#comment-1060070243

 

 

I invite everyone to visit that thread and see how you responded to that post.    

 

By continuing to just spin and dismissing the accusation out of hand.

 

By demanding that I provide even more proof that Clinton was a sexual predator. 

 

So I did.   Here's another post from that October 2017 thread ...

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/220204-wonder-why-mueller-hasnt-approached-assange/?page=8&tab=comments#comment-1060070319

 

 

And your response to that?  This delusional bit of spin and nonsense ...

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/220204-wonder-why-mueller-hasnt-approached-assange/?page=8&tab=comments#comment-1060070337

 

 

... which I showed is filled with more of your LIES, too ... here:

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/220204-wonder-why-mueller-hasnt-approached-assange/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-1060070422

 

 

And your response to that?   This gem ...

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/220204-wonder-why-mueller-hasnt-approached-assange/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-1060070449

 

 

AND THAT is you RUNNING from this thread too, although you continued to make posts.

 

My response was this ...

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/220204-wonder-why-mueller-hasnt-approached-assange/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-1060070475

 

 

 

And I'll stand by every one of my statements in that post here today.

 

But you were so STUCK ON STUPID that you continued trying to defend Bill Clinton and offer more LIES about the accusations against him in that thread.

 

For example, you tried to dismiss the Ellen Wellstone accusation with the post quoted below, along with my response to you:

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/220204-wonder-why-mueller-hasnt-approached-assange/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-1060070799

 

 

And on and on that exchange went.

 

Read that thread, folks.  

 

You'll see in detail what a dishonest debater Scout is ... why I ended up labeling her a WEASEL by the end of that thread.

 

You'll see that she outright LIED numerous times.

 

Just like she lied above, when she declared "There is no evidence that Clinton sexually assaulted or raped any woman."

 

Because there is plenty of evidence and it was even pointed out to her previously ... repeatedly.  

 

Enough evidence that Schippers said that had the statute of limitations on Broaddrick's rape not elapsed, he would have charged Bill with the crime of rape.  

 

Enough evidence that many of the Congressmen who went and looked at it left the Ford Building stunned ... saying it convinced them to vote for impeachment.  

 

I have a whole thread on the evidence against the Clintons.

 

https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/119154-the-p-b-s-whitewash-of-clintons-legacy/ .  

 

It includes a mountain of evidence that Bill Clinton harassed, sexually assaulted, and even raped dozens of women.  

 

But Scout is so obstinately STUCK ON STUPID, I bet that even today she's never bothered to peruse that thread once.

 

She knows what she knows and that's all she knows.  

 

And she can't be talked into looking beyond her nose.

 

PS ... Scout ... Don't you just hate the internet?   It's memory (which apparently you don't have)?  Don't you hate how easy it is to prove you're a liar and idiot?   :lol:

 

Now, THAT was child abuse! BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAA!

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