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TheOldBarn

Rethinking the Divide

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On NPR this morning I heard a report regarding the newly elected Moderate Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger facing questions in a town hall meeting. How could voters be sure that she would be a more moderate voice in congress and not too far left. Well first she said that she did not vote for Nancy Pelosi to be Speaker. 

 

The piece went on to state that it is important for the Democratic Party to understand that in order to hold control it needed more moderate voices, especially in those Red States. 

 

I think nothing could be further from the truth. Talk to the other side of the isle - yes, always. But conduct the needed Congressional Oversight regarding policy measures. The congress is there to be the eyes and the ears of the people it represents. Find the truth and speak it often, is what we need from our Representatives in Congress. Educate the people regarding policy measures that will help them live better lives, and illustrate what is needed for sustainable economic prosperity for all. 

 

Clearly illustrate how medicare for all can be achieved and exactly what it will mean. Democracy is not a zero sum game.

 

My advice for someone like Abigail Sanberger comes down to three words - educate educate educate - listen to your constituents and then educate them regarding how to get the things they truly need.

 

 

https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/populism-trump-and-the-future-of-democracy

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That's a pipe dream. We are the sane moderates. An American liberal would be a conservative in the EU. 

 

The conservatives in the US who left the GOP didn't leave it because it wasn't far enough to the right. They left it because the GOP is full of deplorable people. A moderate or an actual Reagan conservative could not win a Republican primary in a red state or a blue state. Look who the two top vote getters were in the Republican presidential primary - Lyin Ted and Conald. The sane moral competent John Kasich didn't appeal to the deplorables and a candidate like his never will. The GOP is not the party of Reagan where there were Reagan Democrats. The GOP is the party of Trump. Need I say more?

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2 hours ago, BlueDoggL said:

That's a pipe dream. We are the sane moderates. An American liberal would be a conservative in the EU. 

 

The conservatives in the US who left the GOP didn't leave it because it wasn't far enough to the right. They left it because the GOP is full of deplorable people. A moderate or an actual Reagan conservative could not win a Republican primary in a red state or a blue state. Look who the two top vote getters were in the Republican presidential primary - Lyin Ted and Conald. The sane moral competent John Kasich didn't appeal to the deplorables and a candidate like his never will. The GOP is not the party of Reagan where there were Reagan Democrats. The GOP is the party of Trump. Need I say more?

I would agree, if what you said were true. You have to go back to the early sixties to see that. And even on the Democratic side you have to go back to 1980. Isn't that where the word Liberal was basically outlawed. So the Liberals moved slowly to the right. Did that help? 

If you are conservative you would want constructive markets that promote participation and ingenuity, otherwise known as progress. Shouldn't we learn from our mistakes?

 

I mean, shouldn't voters know the truth?

 

Peace!

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2 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

I would agree, if what you said were true.

What do you think is not true

2 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

You have to go back to the early sixties to see that. And even on the Democratic side you have to go back to 1980. Isn't that where the word Liberal was basically outlawed. So the Liberals moved slowly to the right. Did that help? 

 

 

If you are conservative you would want constructive markets that promote participation and ingenuity, otherwise known as progress.

I really don't think there are any actual conservatives left in the GOP. There are NeoCons and Nazis. The old time Republicans that leave say, "I didn't leave the party, the party left me." A lot of prominent Republicans are disgusted with the GOP. 

 

2 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

Shouldn't we learn from our mistakes?

It would be nice if we did and some of us do learn from history

2 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

I mean, shouldn't voters know the truth?

We do want to know the truth and the members of the party of Trump despise the truth. 

2 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

Peace!

I actually respect real conservatives and I wish there were more of them. Our ideas should be challenged but that is not happening. 

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13 minutes ago, BlueDoggL said:

What do you think is not true

I really don't think there are any actual conservatives left in the GOP. There are NeoCons and Nazis. The old time Republicans that leave say, "I didn't leave the party, the party left me." A lot of prominent Republicans are disgusted with the GOP. 

 

It would be nice if we did and some of us do learn from history

We do want to know the truth and the members of the party of Trump despise the truth. 

I actually respect real conservatives and I wish there were more of them. Our ideas should be challenged but that is not happening. 

 

 

I think it's not true to say food stamps cost the US taxpayers much. I also think it's not true to let people with mental disease waste away on the streets in every town in the good old USA, 

I mean, it's ludicrous, to look away and not give them shelter, and then, if you weigh the economic cost of doing something that would help, it seems to upset the system that we currently live within. 

 

What I mean by it not being true, is that at the very same time people are making literally billions in the financial world, which benefits few. It does not in any way create jobs that allow people to make a decent living wage. 

 

What I'm saying is that trade laws, are not about one country getting the most from the other country that it can, they are more about rich people screwing the poor to enrich themselves.

 

The system we live under is not in most ways about efficiency, and if you try to change that to make markets work for good - you called a socialist. You know why?

Do you know why BlueDoggL?

 

Why don't we use the NIH for drug discovery more? Why we don't choose to pay corporations that are good at performing research up front for drug discovery, instead of at the bottom end where they mark up the prices big time? Do you know why BlueDoggL?

 

I come from Detroit BlueDoggL, I'm pushing sixty, I use the screen name old barn, but I ain't too old, or senile to know a little something about economics. I understand a bit about workers Unions, their ascension and their demise. I'm old enough to at least to know about that. And I'm young enough to understand what it's like to put your gut into something worthwhile.

Efficiency, cutting through the red-tape, utilization of topic expertise, understanding a way forward, in a non-political way, and doing so for explicit and pronounced purpose 

to lift up people from poverty and build a stronger sustainable middle class. 

 

Yes, yes, I am adroit at understanding the divide in a classical sense like perhaps you are.

 

Read: American Feud, A history of Conservatives and Liberals, by Noam Chomsky

 

BlueDoggL, what is your definition of a conservative?

 

What is your definition of a Liberal?

 

Here's my definition of a liberal who has conservative roots. One who has seen markets work, and markets also corrupt. The conservative in me looks for progress whether the market needs regulation, whether there needs to be some socialistic measures in certain areas such as public education and healthcare, conservative regarding environmental concerns, conservative in the understanding that workers, in order to promote efficiency require remuneration, and yes, I like that word - as a side note, the fellow who wrote my very first Curricula Vitae, used that word, he was this young guy advanced as he was back then. Hell, I'm just kidding kind of, resume, the thing that comes after all you got is filling in the Job Application.

 

The tech world used to be vastly different. You could go to a technology college and if you were good at electronics you would do really really quite good back in the late 1970's

I went the other way. Night school and the 4 year grind and then more grind.

 

You grind your way through grinning. You must of course grind your way through grinning showing a bit of the teeth where the lips push up into the high cheek and the eye lids spread as far and wide as possible - without looking like a crazy person that is.

 

As you can tell BluDoggL, I myself do have a conservative streak, as you might think it. ER, we are hopefully seeking the same thing. Song is good.

 

 

Peace!

 

 

 

 

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dammit, I meant to post fake plastic trees... to get my point across... because man, if that ain't conservative.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

 

I think it's not true to say food stamps cost the US taxpayers much.

Not caring for the weak is unChristian

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

I also think it's not true to let people with mental disease waste away on the streets in every town in the good old USA, 

Instead of putting them in the nut house we drug em up and force the police to deal with them

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

I mean, it's ludicrous, to look away and not give them shelter, and then, if you weigh the economic cost of doing something that would help, it seems to upset the system that we currently live within. 

We could shelter them and maybe provide them with work that they can do.

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

What I mean by it not being true, is that at the very same time people are making literally billions in the financial world, which benefits few. It does not in any way create jobs that allow people to make a decent living wage. 

The evils of unregulated capitalism and greed. Trump says greed is good. That evil.

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

What I'm saying is that trade laws, are not about one country getting the most from the other country that it can, they are more about rich people screwing the poor to enrich themselves.

Of course it is. We are at a place in history where cooperation is better than competition. Animals compete for survival. Humans should cooperate IMO.

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

The system we live under is not in most ways about efficiency, and if you try to change that to make markets work for good - you called a socialist. You know why?

Do you know why BlueDoggL?

The rich exist to obtain and keep wealth and have hedonistic pleasure. That is how worthless and shallow they are.  

We are very inefficient in how we use resources. 

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

Why don't we use the NIH for drug discovery more? Why we don't choose to pay corporations that are good at performing research up front for drug discovery, instead of at the bottom end where they mark up the prices big time? Do you know why BlueDoggL?

The medical industry would go out of business if they cured disease. The money is in disease management. What has been cured since polio?

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

I come from Detroit BlueDoggL, I'm pushing sixty, I use the screen name old barn, but I ain't too old, or senile to know a little something about economics. I understand a bit about workers Unions, their ascension and their demise. I'm old enough to at least to know about that. And I'm young enough to understand what it's like to put your gut into something worthwhile.

Efficiency, cutting through the red-tape, utilization of topic expertise, understanding a way forward, in a non-political way, and doing so for explicit and pronounced purpose 

to lift up people from poverty and build a stronger sustainable middle class. 

I believe in hand ups more than handouts and giving people opportunity to reach their potential but as long as greed rules and wealth is admired the human potential will be squashed. That is what the criminal elite wants. No matter how much they have they are never satisfied.  It's about morality. Sadly, the immoral and amoral can't be made moral. It's simple, we either have the morals and ethics of Christ or the morals and ethics of Ayn Rand. I used to believe that there was good in everyone. I don't believe that now.

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

Yes, yes, I am adroit at understanding the divide in a classical sense like perhaps you are.

 

Read: American Feud, A history of Conservatives and Liberals, by Noam Chomsky

 

BlueDoggL, what is your definition of a conservative?

Small government, free market capitalism, little regulation, fearful, reactionary, often unrealistic, rigid, stingy, fear change

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

What is your definition of a Liberal?

Liberalism adheres to the morals and ethics of Christ. Advancing the quality of life for one and all.  Equal protection under the law. curious, thoughtful, open minded. Time change and liberals and progressives can adapt to change.

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

Here's my definition of a liberal who has conservative roots. One who has seen markets work, and markets also corrupt. The conservative in me looks for progress whether the market needs regulation, whether there needs to be some socialistic measures in certain areas such as public education and healthcare, conservative regarding environmental concerns, conservative in the understanding that workers, in order to promote efficiency require remuneration, and yes, I like that word - as a side note, the fellow who wrote my very first Curricula Vitae, used that word, he was this young guy advanced as he was back then. Hell, I'm just kidding kind of, resume, the thing that comes after all you got is filling in the Job Application.

 

The tech world used to be vastly different. You could go to a technology college and if you were good at electronics you would do really really quite good back in the late 1970's

 

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

I went the other way. Night school and the 4 year grind and then more grind.

Slaving to pay for education is waste of human potential. College should be free and standard should be high. France has free medical school and the best health care.

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

 

You grind your way through grinning. You must of course grind your way through grinning showing a bit of the teeth where the lips push up into the high cheek and the eye lids spread as far and wide as possible - without looking like a crazy person that is.

 

As you can tell BluDoggL, I myself do have a conservative streak, as you might think it. ER, we are hopefully seeking the same thing.

The word liberal doesn't mean that it once was. I would be happiest with Bernie but I would be happy with Joe or Kamala. Mostly I want someone who knows how to govern. 

7 minutes ago, TheOldBarn said:

Song is good.

 

 

Peace!

 

 

 

 

 

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well then, maybe, just maybe BlueDoggL, your a little bit liberal and a little bit conservative too. 

And BTW, I did not choose to buy the Nutrisystem, even if some might describe me as spherical, a round ball with arms and legs dangling, and a small head on the top.

But you know what I mean about being conservative. You got these people like Rush who I worry about probably suffering from gout, or these other freaks - no they are not 

true conservatives, for whatever the heck that means.

 

Sierra Nevada, that's what I'm drinking now. It's pretty good.

I'm not a round ball, I wasn't trying to make fun of anybody who might be, although it is an issue regrading the huge pronouncement of fatty mcfatty fast food everywhere one looks,

and they push the sugar. Ever see the movie Dodge Ball. 

Isn't this why we go to University, to learn - watch it all the way through. Have fun. I mean have fun and drink beer like Kavanaugh says.  - I kidding of course. but you get my drift, 

the drift, the draft beer. Sierra Nevada, that is. Peace!

 

 

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