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Bluenami

Hitler's alliance with Christianity

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3 minutes ago, Bluenami said:

 

What part is stretchy?

 

 

Patriotism to what?  I have no allegiances that I'm aware of.

I am saying the Japanese devotion to the emperor is more in line with patriotism and than it is religion.

 

They don't seem to fit your narrative very will of atrocity due to religion. 

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Just now, TDS said:

 

Your allegiance is to the truth and to the constitution of the united states of america.

 

Oh yes I forgot I'm a prisoner of the truth.  That is true!

 

The constitution???  Well... I don't think it's a good idea to dogmatically defend whatever happens to constitute a constitution, although I do generally support this particular version we have now.  Remember, article 5 says the constitution can change, so if you support the constitution, then you support article 5 ;)  

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1 minute ago, kfools said:

I am saying the Japanese devotion to the emperor is more in line with patriotism and than it is religion.

 

Oooooh I see.  Well, I am linking patriotism in the mix just the same; it's all dogmatism and belief in objective reality and absolute truth.  It may be a weaker argument, but I was going to make the association anyway.  Aren't the religious also the patriots?  God king and country?  Ain't that the credo?

 

Traditionalism falls under the category of authoritarianism because one cannot enforce tradition without objective authority and patriotism is a tradition; it's just something you do because.... why? idk, people pride themselves for their patriotism.  They make up a rule and pride themselves for keeping it.

 

Anyway, I think there is a little more in seeing your leader as an emperor than a president.  Why did they bestow such a lofty title for someone merely doing a job?  Why don't we call the president god and give him life tenure?  If we did, do you think soldiers would be more or less likely to sacrifice themselves for his whim?

 

And finally, patriotism to a country (an idea) is different from patriotism to a life-long god-ruler.  The leaders of the US change, and the desires of it changes, yet the people still support the idea of the country even though it's changing.  That's different from a static country controlled by one god-figure.

 

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11 hours ago, Chiseler said:

Not everyone lives with a family jackass

Like you. Your family told you to hit the bricks you pathetic welfare rat. 

 

When millions of bread winners have to work more than 40 hrs a week just to survive, the system is rigged but a moocher like you wouldn't know that.

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1 minute ago, BlueDoggL said:

Like you. Your family told you to hit the bricks you pathetic welfare rat. 

 

When millions of bread winners have to work more than 40 hrs a week just to survive, the system is rigged but a moocher like you wouldn't know that.

lol look how mad you are. people are working two jobs, that doesn't mean they have to.  lol you're so dumb

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1 hour ago, Bluenami said:

 

Oooooh I see.  Well, I am linking patriotism in the mix just the same; it's all dogmatism and belief in objective reality and absolute truth.  It may be a weaker argument, but I was going to make the association anyway.  Aren't the religious also the patriots?  God king and country?  Ain't that the credo?

Ya but that's my point really. Atheists are just as susceptible to patriotism as religious people. I would say that's inarguable.

1 hour ago, Bluenami said:

 

Traditionalism falls under the category of authoritarianism because one cannot enforce tradition without objective authority

True. Yet change also takes objective authority so I am not sure what your point is. 

1 hour ago, Bluenami said:

and patriotism is a tradition; it's just something you do because.... why? idk, people pride themselves for their patriotism.  They make up a rule and pride themselves for keeping it.

No. It's tribalism. People need a flue of some sort to hold them together. Like a nation for instance.

1 hour ago, Bluenami said:

 

Anyway, I think there is a little more in seeing your leader as an emperor than a president.  Why did they bestow such a lofty title for someone merely doing a job?  Why don't we call the president god and give him life tenure?  If we did, do you think soldiers would be more or less likely to sacrifice themselves for his whim?

I have no idea.  Probably. 

1 hour ago, Bluenami said:

 

And finally, patriotism to a country (an idea) is different from patriotism to a life-long god-ruler.  The leaders of the US change, and the desires of it changes, yet the people still support the idea of the country even though it's changing.  That's different from a static country controlled by one god-figure.

 

Ya, it's a distinction without merit though. Many people here see the government as an awe inspiring god like institution. 

 

So I don't know what the difference is between patriotism towards an emperor vs a president vs an ideal. It's not religious in any way yet we still slaughter over it.

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2 hours ago, Bluenami said:

 

Oh yes I forgot I'm a prisoner of the truth.  That is true!

 

The constitution???  Well... I don't think it's a good idea to dogmatically defend whatever happens to constitute a constitution, although I do generally support this particular version we have now.  Remember, article 5 says the constitution can change, so if you support the constitution, then you support article 5 ;)  

 

Thomas Paine said the constitution was a "living document" (as opposed to" rule from the dead" which were the edicts of dead kings).

 

Tom Paine is America's Godfather.💪

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16 minutes ago, kfools said:

Ya but that's my point really. Atheists are just as susceptible to patriotism as religious people. I would say that's inarguable.

True. Yet change also takes objective authority so I am not sure what your point is. 

No. It's tribalism. People need a flue of some sort to hold them together. Like a nation for instance.

I have no idea.  Probably. 

Ya, it's a distinction without merit though. Many people here see the government as an awe inspiring god like institution. 

 

So I don't know what the difference is between patriotism towards an emperor vs a president vs an ideal. It's not religious in any way yet we still slaughter over it.

 

More like demigods.

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36 minutes ago, Chiseler said:

lol look how mad you are. people are working two jobs, that doesn't mean they have to.  lol you're so dumb

So, you think they're doing it for fun, ya lil wanker?

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41 minutes ago, BlueDoggL said:

Like you. Your family told you to hit the bricks you pathetic welfare rat. 

 

When millions of bread winners have to work more than 40 hrs a week just to survive, the system is rigged but a moocher like you wouldn't know that.

Cheesler sounds like a trust fund boy to me.

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2 hours ago, kfools said:

I am saying the Japanese devotion to the emperor is more in line with patriotism and than it is religion.

 

They don't seem to fit your narrative very will of atrocity due to religion. 

Not patriotism, but nationalism.  You Still don't know the difference, I see.

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7 minutes ago, TDS said:

So, you think they're doing it for fun, ya lil wanker?

$=fun

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2 hours ago, kfools said:

Is that why you chimed in?

 

So you could say nothing of value and talk smack in the middle of a civil discussion?

 

Why am I surprised? Insults are always started by you.  It's the mark of a weak mind.

 

Der, der, you poor little indignant victim.Call Puddles to throw a pity party 4 U.

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1 minute ago, kfools said:

Ya but that's my point really. Atheists are just as susceptible to patriotism as religious people. I would say that's inarguable.

 

Do you think that would pan-out in correlational data?  How do we define patriotism?  What is it?  Does it mean to blindly support whatever the government happens to be or only support a government that you perceive as sensible?

 

1 minute ago, kfools said:

True. Yet change also takes objective authority so I am not sure what your point is. 

 

Traditionalism specifies, for instance, that marriage be between a man and woman.  The opposite of that is simply not specifying anything.  Men can marry men or women or whatever.  There is no tradition and nothing to enforce.

 

So traditionalism is a rule that wasn't arrived at by reason, unless there is some logical reason that men shouldn't be allowed to marry men, but it's taken on faith as an absolute rule; it just is.  The same with the other traditions.

 

I know you could argue from a scientific standpoint that traditionalism is better for families, but then you'll have to figure out how to prove "better" is objectively better, so it's just moving the goal posts and is still a claim held on faith.

 

So that's what traditionalism boils down to: faith-based vs reason-based, moral absolutes vs moral relativity.

 

1 minute ago, kfools said:

No. It's tribalism. People need a flue of some sort to hold them together. Like a nation for instance.

 

Sure it's tribal and innate, but there is no objective reason to be loyal.  Some species survive as independent creatures with no loyalty to anything.  Cats (except lions).  So it's not a requirement, but just something people do.

 

Lots of people burn the flag (usually liberals and probably atheist ones), so patriotism isn't required to live (so long as a vet ain't standing nearby lol).

 

1 minute ago, kfools said:

I have no idea.  Probably. 

 

So there you go.  The japs flew into ships out of devotion for their godlike emperor.   Muslims blow themselves up for their god.

 

1 minute ago, kfools said:

Ya, it's a distinction without merit though. Many people here see the government as an awe inspiring god like institution. 

 

Again though the governmental godlike institution is variable and only considered godlike if the government is sensible.  It's not blind allegiance, but contingent allegiance.  I'll support the godlike government if the god-gov supports me.  If not, then I want to overthrow it per the declaration of independence rationale.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. 

 

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Just now, TDS said:

 

Der, der, you poor little indignant victim.Call Puddles to throw a pity party 4 U.

I like parties

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1 minute ago, Chiseler said:

$=fun

 

You love that big silver spoon in your ass, I suppose.

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12 minutes ago, TDS said:

 

Thomas Paine said the constitution was a "living document" (as opposed to" rule from the dead" which were the edicts of dead kings).

 

Tom Paine is America's Godfather.💪

 

Yes he was one smart cookie!

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1 minute ago, kfools said:

I like parties

Yeah, especially the nazi party.

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1 minute ago, TDS said:

 

You love that big silver spoon in your ass, I suppose.

you're a broke soyboy, im your antithesis

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1 minute ago, Bluenami said:

 

Do you think that would pan-out in correlational data?

I do. On a per capitalism basis I bet it's close.

1 minute ago, Bluenami said:

  How do we define patriotism?  What is it?  Does it mean to blindly support whatever the government happens to be or only support a government that you perceive as sensible?

Well, it's changed in The United States a bit. For most of my life the service was considered an honorable position as was supporting them. It didn't always have anything to do with the government necessarily.

1 minute ago, Bluenami said:

 

 

Traditionalism specifies, for instance, that marriage be between a man and woman. 

That's not really traditionalism. Yes, it's true thats the way things have always been everywhere you go but that's because it's a societal normative lifestyle. In other words people don't get married because of tradition even though there is traditionalism in marriage to a degree.

1 minute ago, Bluenami said:

 

The opposite of that is simply not specifying anything.  Men can marry men or women or whatever.  There is no tradition and nothing to enforce.

Rediculous. Of course there is enforcement. There are discrimination laws protecting them. Laws are force.

1 minute ago, Bluenami said:

 

So traditionalism is a rule that wasn't arrived at by reason, unless there is some logical reason that men shouldn't be allowed to marry men, but it's taken on faith as an absolute rule; it just is.  The same with the other traditions.

Marriage between men and women is very logical. What do you mean?

1 minute ago, Bluenami said:

 

I know you could argue from a scientific standpoint that traditionalism is better for families, but then you'll have to figure out how to prove "better" is objectively better, so it's just moving the goal posts and is still a claim held on faith.

Ok.

1 minute ago, Bluenami said:

 

So that's what traditionalism boils down to: faith-based vs reason-based, moral absolutes vs moral relativity.

 

 

Sure it's tribal and innate, but there is no objective reason to be loyal.  Some species survive as independent creatures with no loyalty to anything.  Cats (except lions).  So it's not a requirement, but just something people do.

 

Lots of people burn the flag (usually liberals and probably atheist ones), so patriotism isn't required to live (so long as a vet ain't standing nearby lol).

 

 

So there you go.  The japs flew into ships out of devotion for their godlike emperor.   Muslims blow themselves up for their god.

 

 

Again though the governmental godlike institution is variable and only considered godlike if the government is sensible.  It's not blind allegiance, but contingent allegiance.  I'll support the godlike government if the god-gov supports me.  If not, then I want to overthrow it per the declaration of independence rationale.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, TDS said:

Yeah, especially the nazi party.

Oh....you called me a Nazi. How original.

 

 

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1 minute ago, kfools said:

Oh....you called me a Nazi. How original.

 

 

 

I can't help it if everyone calls you that. Don't blame me you nazi swine.

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11 minutes ago, Chiseler said:

you're a broke soyboy, im your antithesis

I'm not some milkmaid from Wisconsin, I was born to rule. I am your nemesis..

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1 minute ago, TDS said:

 

I can't help it if everyone calls you that. Don't blame me you nazi swine.

Just liberal trash that can't debate.

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