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These four countries have nearly eliminated gun deaths - here's what the US can learn

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10 hours ago, ConConfounder said:

 

 

I challenged you to explain your claim about a supposed "15 year old article" by citing it and showing us where it was posted. You seem to be too stupid to manage that simple task. Until you explain what you are talking about, I couldn't care less about your "two simple-minded questions".

 

Or, in other words, fook off, moron.

 

This is the fifteen year old article you posted the excerpts from:

Notice that it use TWENTY YEAR OLD data.

Now post some real numbers, big mouth, or show the entire forum how dishonest you are

 

 

On 2/8/2019 at 8:09 PM, ConConfounder said:

Guns in homes pose greater risk to families than to intruders, data show

 

A gun in the home -- thus available for self-defense -- is 22 times more likely to be used in an assault or homicide, an accidental shooting or a suicide or attempted suicide.

 

Researchers reached this conclusion by studying hospital admissions, emergency medical technician reports, police and medical examiner files in 626 shootings in or around a residence in three cities: Galveston, Texas; Seattle, Wash.; and Memphis, Tenn., for between 12 and 18 months.

 

The study was published in The Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection and Critical Care, in August 1998, by Dr. Arthur Kellerman of Emory University in Atlanta and four other authors. Their study was supported by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

 

 

 

 

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Ah, good ol' gun control.  Fact is unless you live in a terrible neighborhood you're extremely unlikely to get shot or to ever need to shoot anyone.  The odds are extremely long.  But Americans like arguing about gun control for some reason. 

 

I love guns.  I will always own at least one.  This just doesn't matter right now.  I'm much more concerned about Monsanto completely taking over the seed market by distributing pesticides that will kill anything except their seeds, which is somehow approved by the FDA even though it clearly drifts and impacts surrounding vegetation and crops.  Or Amazon taking over Whole Foods Market.  Or convicted felon JP Morgan buying my politicians....etc, etc, 

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3 minutes ago, splunch said:

This just doesn't matter right now.  I'm much more concerned about Monsanto completely taking over the seed market

 

Then you're in the wrong thread

 

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On 2/8/2019 at 5:16 AM, BullConnor said:

Try to come and take my weapons you gun grabbing liberal fukks, make my day. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chuck! said:

 

Still refusing to answer the question, I see.

What is it about the truth that makes anti gunners flee?

 

 

 

The truth is that It's extremely rare when someone uses a gun to defend themselves.

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The truth is that you're a liar who got caught, and you'd rather wallow in your willful ignorance than google the truth.

 

Best thing about this website is that everyone's true personality comes out.
We see yours and it's disgusting.
 

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8 hours ago, harryramar said:

i am pretty sure those asssholes in texas are a bunch of pussies. that is based on their carrying assault weapons to the store

That is rare. Also I already told you why they do that and isn't for protection.

8 hours ago, harryramar said:

 

  and their rsenator ted cruz being such a pussy he sucked up to the orange thug after trump called his old lady a dog. 

Oh jesus. Campaigns are ugly dude.

8 hours ago, harryramar said:

what the fcuk happened to texas that there are spo many pussies in 10 gallon hats???

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 5:02 AM, guilluamezenz said:

A spate of violence in the 1980s and '90s that culminated in a 1996 shooting that left 35 dead led Australian Prime Minister John Howard to convene an assembly to devise gun-control strategies.

The group landed on a massive buyback program, costing hundreds of millions of dollars offset by a one-time tax increase, that bought and destroyed more than 600,000 automatic and semiautomatic weapons and pump-action shotguns.

 

Over the next few years, gun-death totals were cut nearly in half. Firearm suicides dropped to 0.8 per 100,000 people in 2006 from 2.2 in 1995, while firearm homicides dropped to 0.15 per 100,000 people in 2006 from 0.37 in 1995  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-deaths-eliminated-america-learn-japan-australia-uk-norway-florida-shooting-latest-news-a8216301.html

Get lost Commie!!!! Go back from where you once came if you don't like it.

No photo description available.

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7 hours ago, Chuck! said:

This is the fifteen year old article you posted the excerpts from:

Notice that it use TWENTY YEAR OLD data.

Now post some real numbers, big mouth, or show the entire forum how dishonest you are

 

Too bad, Chuckles, for your bogus gun-nut myths, but the numbers are the same now as they were 15 or 20 years ago.

 

Here, bozo, read some scientific facts from one and a half years ago.....read the whole article, if you dare.....

More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows

More firearms do not keep people safe, hard numbers show. Why do so many Americans believe the opposite?

 

Scientific American

By Melinda Wenner Moyer 

October 1, 2017

(excerpts)

 

...scientists compare what happens to gun-toting people, in gun-dense regions, with what happens to people and places with few firearms. They also study whether crime victims are more or less likely to own guns than others, and they track what transpires when laws make it easier for people to carry guns or use them for self-defense.

 

Most of this research—and there have been several dozen peer-reviewed studies—punctures the idea that guns stop violence. In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.

 

So what does the research say? By far the most famous series of studies on this issue was conducted in the late 1980s and 1990s by Arthur Kellermann, now dean of the F. Edward Hébert School of Medicine at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, and his colleagues. In one, published in 1993 in the New England Journal of Medicine and funded by the CDC, he and his colleagues identified 444 people who had been killed between 1987 and 1992 at home in three U.S. regions—Shelby County, Tennessee, King County, Washington State, and Cuyahoga County, Ohio—and then collected details about them and their deaths from local police, medical examiners and people who had been close to the victims. They found that a gun in the home was associated with a nearly threefold increase in the odds that someone would be killed at home by a family member or intimate acquaintance.

 

The initial work by Kellermann and his colleagues was criticized for not using enough statistical controls. So they went on to publish other studies confirming the link between guns and more violence. In one, they found that a gun in the home was tied to a nearly fivefold increase in the odds of suicide. (More Americans die from gun suicides every year than gun homicides.) In another, published in 1998, they reported that guns at home were four times more likely to cause an accidental shooting, seven times more likely to be used in assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide than they were to be used for self-defense.

 

The research made headlines in the New York Times and the Washington Post. It also infuriated the gun lobby, which launched a war against gun research that persists today.

 

More than 30 peer-reviewed studies, focusing on individuals as well as populations, have been published that confirm what Kellermann's studies suggested: that guns are associated with an increased risk for violence and homicide. “There is really uniform data to support the statement that access to firearms is associated with an increased risk of firearm-related death and injury,” Wintemute concludes. Gun advocates argue the causes are reversed: surges in violent crime lead people to buy guns, and weapons do not create the surge. But if that were true, gun purchases would increase in tandem with all kinds of violence. In reality, they do not.

 

(Much more info on website)

 

 

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That's a whole lot of words you wasted trying to avoid two simple questions:

How many DGUs were there in 2017, and how many gun deaths in 2017?

Google is your friend, well, not your friend.
Google is friend to the truth.

 

Now stop being a pussy and look it up and post it here, liar

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1 minute ago, Chuck! said:

Now stop being a pussy and look it up and post it here, liar

 

Just so you know ... you're debating pogorocks, back from the dead.

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15 minutes ago, Chuck! said:

That's a whole lot of words you wasted trying to avoid two simple questions:

How many DGUs were there in 2017, and how many gun deaths in 2017?

Google is your friend, well, not your friend.
Google is friend to the truth.

 

Now stop being a pussy and look it up and post it here, liar

 

That's a whole lot of words that you ignored (as I expected you would), Chuckles, because the facts don't agree with your crackpot gun-nut myths.

 

In reality....

and Non-Fatal Self-Defense

 

Violence Policy Center

May 2017

 

Self-Defense Gun Use

selfdefense2018440.jpg

 

The use of guns in self-defense by private citizens is extremely rare. VPC research has found a gun is far more likely to be used in a homicide or suicide than in a homicide. More guns are stolen each year than are used in self-defense.

 

The gun lobby seeks to expand the carrying of concealed, loaded handguns into an ever-increasing number of public spaces, while at the same time blocking any restrictions on the availability of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. The main argument used to advance these policies is that guns are a common and effective tool for self-defense. This argument is false.

 

A series of VPC studies on guns and self-defense thoroughly disprove the NRA myth. These studies analyze national data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program’s Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR) and the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). Among the findings of the most recent edition of the study are the following:

  • In 2015, the FBI reports there were only 265 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 9,027 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 34 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
  • Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
  • Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

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Again, for the loser coward who can't bring himself to post the truth
How many DGUs in 2017?
It's a VERY simple question that is easy to find the answer to.
Why won't you do so?

The second question is just as easy.
How many gun deaths in 2017?


Two numbers, that is all I am asking you for
Come on, no balls
Answer the question

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1 hour ago, Chuck! said:

Again, for the loser coward who can't bring himself to post the truth

 

Ah ha, talking to yourself again, eh Chuckles?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chuck! said:

How many DGUs in 2017?
It's a VERY simple question that is easy to find the answer to.
Why won't you do so?

The second question is just as easy.
How many gun deaths in 2017?


Two numbers, that is all I am asking you for
Come on, no balls
Answer the question

 

The fact that you imagine that your idiot questions have any significance to the debate over gun violence in America compared to other countries just demonstrates how bamboozled you are with the bogus propaganda the NRA fed you.

 

And just why did you pick the year 2017? Could it be because....

 

"More people died from firearm injuries in the United States last year than in any other year since at least 1968, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017, up by more than 1,000 from the year before. Nearly two-thirds were suicides."

The New York Times - U.S. Gun Violence Claimed More Lives In 2017 Than Ever: CDC - Dec. 18, 2018

 

Meanwhile, expert crime analysis reports only about 2000 or less actual legtimate defensive gun uses per year. Of course that's not counting all the drunken rednecks waving guns at the each other in bar fights and arguments that they idiotically report to the NRA as a "defensive gun use".

The Los Angeles Times
JUN 19, 2015 

As was predictable, some of the NRA crowd blames the Rev. Clementa C. Pinckney, the murdered pastor of Charleston's Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, for the deaths of eight parishioners Wednesday because as a South Carolina state legislator he supported stricter gun control (the original comment by NRA Director Charles L. Cotton seems to have been taken down, but was preserved elsewhere).

 

Beyond the despicable efforts to blame the victim and not the alleged gun-toting racist charged with the crimes, Cotton's assertion reflects a common and romanticized argument by the gun lobby. If we were all armed, we would all be safe, an argument as devoid of humanity as it is of logic.

 

Coincidentally, just 13 hours before those atrocious killings, the Violence Policy Center released a fresh analysis of federal crime and health data that explores how often potential victims actually turned the tables. Parsing 2012 numbers, the center counted 259 justifiable gun-related homicides, or incidents in which authorities ruled that killings occurred in self-defense.

That's in a nation in which there are some 300 million firearms, nearly one for every person (though only a little over a third of Americans own guns — and there's an interesting take on that here, and on the ramifications of gun ownership on murder rates here, and while you're reading links, this is of interest, too). This is also a nation in which, in 2012, there were 1.2 million violent crimes, defined as murder, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. Or, put another way, 1.2 million scenarios in which there was potential for someone to kill in self-defense. 

 

Oh, and match those 259 justifiable homicides with the theft of about 232,000 guns each year, about 172,000 of them during burglaries. That's a ratio of one justifiable homicide for every 896 guns put in the hands of criminals.

 

Those 259 justifiable homicides also pale compared with, in the same year, 8,342 criminal homicides using guns, 20,666 suicides with guns, and 548 fatal unintentional shootings, according to the FBI's Supplemental Homicide Report. The ratio for 2012, per the Violence Policy Center, was one justifiable killing for every 32 murders, suicides or accidental deaths (the ratio increases to 38-1 over the five-year period ending in 2012). That's a heavy price to pay.

The center also dives into the thorny thicket of how often the presence of a gun stops a crime — either violent or against property, such as a burglary — from happening. The gun lobby trots out an annual figure of 2.5 million such instances. But an analysis of five years' worth of stats collected by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics' National Crime Victimization Survey puts the number much, much lower — about 67,740 times a year.

It's also useful, as the Violence Policy Center does, to dig into the relationships among the attackers and those who kill in self-defense. Over the five-year span ending in 2012, more than half — 56% — of the justifiable homicides involved strangers, and in 11% of the cases, the relationship was not reported. The rest were acquaintances (18.7%) such as neighbors and coworkers, and then a mishmash of relatives and personal relationships.

Conversely, of the 2012 criminal firearm homicides in which a relationship was reported, three out of four victims knew their killers, and more than a third were family members or "intimate acquaintances" — such as spouses, ex-spouses or others involved in a romantic relationship.

And those suicides? About half of all suicides are committed with guns, and seven in 10 by men, who also account for 74% of gun owners in the country.

Oddly, given these combined statistics, nearly half of gun owners say they keep weapons because it makes them feel safer, a proportion that has increased dramatically since 1999 even though violent crime has been in a steady decline.

So what conclusions can we draw from this? The notion that a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun is a romanticized vision of the nature of violent crime. And that the sea of guns in which we live causes exponentially more danger and harm than good. It's long past time to start emphasizing the "well-regulated" phrase in the 2nd Amendment.

 

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11 hours ago, ConConfounder said:

There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017, up by more than 1,000 from the year before. Nearly two-thirds were suicides."

 

Congratulations!
You FINALLY answer HALF to quiz.

Now tell us how many DGUs occurred in 2017

 

 

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Quote

These four countries have nearly eliminated gun deaths - here's what the US can learn

I just caught this. Guilluamezenz starts a thread talking about what "these four countries" have done to supposedly eliminate gun deaths.  However, he only mentions one country, Australia in the body of his post.  The entire topic and thread is fraudulent on its face.   Folks, this just goes to show you how dishonest Leftists are when attempting to discuss a given topic.

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http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/20/cdc-provides-more-evidence-that-plenty-o

 

Quote

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns

CDC surveys in the 1990s, never publicly reported, indicate nearly 2.5 million defensive uses of guns a year. That matches the results of Gary Kleck's controversial surveys, and it indicates more defensive than offensive uses of guns.

 

 

http://reason.com/blog/2018/09/04/what-the-cdcs-mid-90s-surveys-on-defensi

 

Quote

A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use

Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.

 

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3194685

 

Quote

In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

 

 

https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=779068125074119105120087083000108028034002008002053038105115015071104010117127126124043110106115033100010094099124122118099067123000008015072067095116114088111084034079016008090075127110092025095013069127022025084098064090119091069066093025012075110&EXT=pdf

 

Quote

Table 2. Raw Frequencies Used to Compute DGU Prevalence and Relative Prevalence of DGU in U.S. vs. Groups of States

 

BRFSS 1996 1997 1998

Unweighted past-year DGU cases 55 29 33

Unweighted total cases 5,484 4,189 3,197

Weighted (by FINALWT) DGU cases 69,387 51,976 61,360

Weighted total cases 5,336,378 5,835,973 5,869,842

 

NSDS Weighted (by fwt) past-year DGU cases, U .S. 66 66 66

Weighted total cases, U. S. 4,969 4,969 4,969

Weighted % with DGU, U. S. 1.326 1.326 1.326

Weighted past-year DGU cases, group of states 10 8 4

Weighted total cases, group of states 337 535 513

Weighted % with DGU, group of states 2.967 1.495 0.780

Ratio, U. S. % DGU over group of states % DGU 0.497 0.887 1.700

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Chuck! said:

Congratulations!
You FINALLY answer HALF to quiz.

Now tell us how many DGUs occurred in 2017

 

Are you blind? I already did, right there in that post.

 

"Meanwhileexpert crime analysis reports only about 2000 or less actual legtimate defensive gun uses per year. Of course that's not counting all the drunken rednecks waving guns at the each other in bar fights and arguments that they idiotically report to the NRA as a "defensive gun use"."

 

It was actually a bit more than 2000 legitimate DGUs in 2017, according to the most credible research.

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7 hours ago, Chuck! said:
 

http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/20/cdc-provides-more-evidence-that-plenty-o

 

  Quote

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns

CDC surveys in the 1990s, never publicly reported, indicate nearly 2.5 million defensive uses of guns a year. That matches the results of Gary Kleck's controversial surveys, and it indicates more defensive than offensive uses of guns.

 

 

http://reason.com/blog/2018/09/04/what-the-cdcs-mid-90s-surveys-on-defensi

 

  Quote

A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use

Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.

 

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3194685

 

  Quote

In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

 

 

https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=779068125074119105120087083000108028034002008002053038105115015071104010117127126124043110106115033100010094099124122118099067123000008015072067095116114088111084034079016008090075127110092025095013069127022025084098064090119091069066093025012075110&EXT=pdf

 

  Quote

Table 2. Raw Frequencies Used to Compute DGU Prevalence and Relative Prevalence of DGU in U.S. vs. Groups of States

 

BRFSS 1996 1997 1998

Unweighted past-year DGU cases 55 29 33

Unweighted total cases 5,484 4,189 3,197

Weighted (by FINALWT) DGU cases 69,387 51,976 61,360

Weighted total cases 5,336,378 5,835,973 5,869,842

 

NSDS Weighted (by fwt) past-year DGU cases, U .S. 66 66 66

Weighted total cases, U. S. 4,969 4,969 4,969

Weighted % with DGU, U. S. 1.326 1.326 1.326

Weighted past-year DGU cases, group of states 10 8 4

Weighted total cases, group of states 337 535 513

Weighted % with DGU, group of states 2.967 1.495 0.780

Ratio, U. S. % DGU over group of states % DGU 0.497 0.887 1.700

 

 

Utter bullsh*t, Chuckles. NRA lies and grossly exaggerated estimates based on more bullsh*t.

 

Kleck's bogus gun industry sponsored paper has been bebunked repeatedly.

 

Here's an honest analysis of the real numbers, not gun-nut made up claims. Too bed it blows away your gun-nut myths and lies and fear based rationalizations for the horrendous carnage in America (compared to other, more civilized countries), that is caused by an entirely unnecessary and counterproductive to actual public and personal safety super-over-abundance of firearms in this country,  caused by gun industry/NRA fear mongering and the current idiotic misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

 

White Paper: The Frequency of Defensive Gun Use

GVPedia 

Posted on:  December 14, 2017

Categories Defensive Gun Use

  • There are 3 major estimates of Defensive Gun Use (DGU) frequency per year:
    • Gary Kleck and private surveys: approximately 2.5 million.
    • National Crime Victimization Survey: approximately 100,000.
    • Gun Violence Archive (based on police and media reports): less than 2,000.
  • Surveys of rare events such as DGUs exaggerate their frequency due to false positives.
  • While methodologically better, the NCVS estimate also suffers from false positives and is therefore likely an overestimate as well.
  • Several of the crime predictions from Kleck’s survey are mathematically impossible, such as DGUs during burglaries and criminals being shot.
  • Comprehensive empirical data (such as GVA’s) trumps survey data when they provide conflicting results.

 

Recommended reading:

The Myth Behind Defensive Gun Ownership

Defensive Gun Use: Gary Kleck Misfires Again

Gunfight or Flight: New Study Finds No Advantages to Using a Firearm in Self-Defense Situations

 

The best available empirical evidence cataloging defensive gun use (DGU) comes from data compiled by the Gun Violence Archive(GVA), which found fewer than 1,600 DGUs in all of 2014, fewer than 1,400 DGUs in 2015, fewer than 2,000 in 2016, and slightly more than 2,000 in 2017. While these values represent the “floor” for DGU estimates (as they track only verified reports), the true value of DGUs is likely to be far closer to these estimates than estimates derived from surveys.

 

This estimate is in stark contrast to one routinely cited by the National Rifle Association (NRA) in which guns are used “millions of times a year” in self-defense – a claim which derives from a survey by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz published in 1995 that indicated 2.5 million DGUs occur annually (which would equate to an average of 6,849 a day, or 285 an hour). This survey appeared to be corroborated by other similar small private surveys, and directly challenged estimates from the much larger National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) that place the total under 100,000 per year.

 

The discrepancy between Kleck, the NCVS, and GVA can be explained by a false positive problem, which is endemic in surveys of rare events. A false positive in this case is when somebody in the survey claims they had a DGU when they did not actually have one. A false positive can arise for a number of reasons, including social desirability bias (in which subjects are likely to lie about or exaggerate socially desirable behaviors); telescoping (in which respondents misremember when a real DGU occurred, and accidentally report one which occurred outside the time-frame asked about in the survey); and strategic reporting (in which respondents game their answers, aware that such surveys are often the basis of future policy).

 

In surveys of rare events, such as DGUs, these false positives are guaranteed to overwhelm any false negatives (where respondents say they didn’t have a DGU when they in fact did). As a result, Kleck’s 2.5 million DGU figure can be explained by a 1% false positive rate in his survey (and the same goes for NCVS figures, despite methodological efforts to limit them). In contrast, the hard data GVA collects from police and media reports would have to miss more than 99.9% of DGU cases in order to reconcile the empirical evidence with Kleck’s 2.5 million figure.

 

Further, many of the predictions from Kleck’s survey are irreconcilable with known facts about crime. According to Kleck’s estimates, guns were used defensively in 845,000 burglaries, yet we know from reliable victimization surveys there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries in the United States at the time of the survey, and 33% had occupants in the home who were sleeping. Of those households, only 42% owned firearms. Even if burglars only targeted households that owned firearms, and those gun owners used guns in self-defense every time they were awake, the number would still be impossible to obtain (at most, only 117,000 defensive uses in response to burglaries would be even possible). Kleck’s analysis also implies hundreds of thousands of criminals are getting shot every year, yet there are no medical records to support this claim. While Kleck has claimed the majority of criminals simply never seek medical attention, data indicates more than 90% of criminals who have been wounded prior to incarceration seek medical attention.

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3 hours ago, ConConfounder said:

There are 3 major estimates of Defensive Gun Use (DGU) frequency per year:

  • Gary Kleck and private surveys: approximately 2.5 million.
  • National Crime Victimization Survey: approximately 100,000.
  • Gun Violence Archive (based on police and media reports): less than 2,000.

 

Two surveys and a collection of police reports

 

Let me guess, you don't think anything odd about that Ford lady not never reporting Kavanaugh for decades, am I right?

 

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4 hours ago, ConConfounder said:
    • Gary Kleck and private surveys: approximately 2.5 million.
    • National Crime Victimization Survey: approximately 100,000.
    • Gun Violence Archive (based on police and media reports): less than 2,000.
  • Surveys of rare events such as DGUs exaggerate their frequency due to false positives.
  • While methodologically better, the NCVS estimate also suffers from false positives and is therefore likely an overestimate as well.
  • Several of the crime predictions from Kleck’s survey are mathematically impossible, such as DGUs during burglaries and criminals being shot.
  • Comprehensive empirical data (such as GVA’s) trumps survey data when they provide conflicting results.

 

 

Hey jag off,

 

you do know that professor Kleck had to revise his numbers right?

as he was caught ahem "lying" or "fudging" or "obfuscating" however you want to put it

 

revised version see below

https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=361095067121089003078090019005007123098078055012042006031079070011117103024114110087045052103009119007115097114016003019077000109011088034000029068103015067077065033052036119077026005085108110099124116004111113027003002091083076072104088124104090031&EXT=pdf

 

 

 

Because Kleck and marc gertz surveyed 4 states, and excluded hawaii and alaska.

4 states does not make for a national survey either.

 

This time Kleck uses  Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) survey and goes from 4 to 7 ( hawaii and alaska included) states and  asked about defensive uses of guns in seven states in 1996, seven in 1997, and four in 1998.

The BRFSS results were specifically  designed to exclude "military, police and others uses with firearm-related jobs" and "uses against animals."

 

 

kleck himself notes and said quote unquote

it's simply impossible to extrapolate meaningfully from the small set of states surveyed over the course of those three years to a solid national DGU figure from the BRFSS itself: "We cannot directly apply these estimates to the U.S. because the sets of states do not constitute a probability sample of the U.S. The prevalence of DGU could be far higher in some states than in the nation as a whole if the states have higher-than-average rates of gun ownership and/or crime, or could be far lower if the set of states had lower gun ownership or crime rates."

 

Read his revised figures.

 

Yeah, I guess that blows your theory jag off, 

 

bottom line is  you anti gun nuts lies through your teeth, assuming they are your real teeth.

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14 hours ago, Chuck! said:

 

Two surveys and a collection of police reports

 

Let me guess, you don't think anything odd about that Ford lady not never reporting Kavanaugh for decades, am I right?

 

 

As I figured you would.....when your gun-nut myths and lies get debunked, you try to change the subject to the confirmation of a rapist to the Supreme Court.

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Just now, ConConfounder said:

 

As I figured you would.....when your gun-nut myths and lies get debunked, you try to change the subject to the confirmation of a rapist to the Supreme Court.

Where's the evidence he is a rapist?

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13 hours ago, chairmanOFTB said:

you do know that professor Kleck had to revise his numbers right?

as he was caught ahem "lying" or "fudging" or "obfuscating" however you want to put it.

 

"Lying" Is definitely the most accurate term for his firearm industry sponsored bullsh*t. 

 

And his "revised figures" are just more deliberate lies.

 

in the real world....

 

"Further, many of the predictions from Kleck’s survey are irreconcilable with known facts about crime. According to Kleck’s estimates, guns were used defensively in 845,000 burglaries, yet we know from reliable victimization surveys there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries in the United States at the time of the survey, and 33% had occupants in the home who were sleeping. Of those households, only 42% owned firearms. Even if burglars only targeted households that owned firearms, and those gun owners used guns in self-defense every time they were awake, the number would still be impossible to obtain (at most, only 117,000 defensive uses in response to burglaries would be even possible). Kleck’s analysis also implies hundreds of thousands of criminals are getting shot every year, yet there are no medical records to support this claim. While Kleck has claimed the majority of criminals simply never seek medical attention, data indicates more than 90% of criminals who have been wounded prior to incarceration seek medical attention."

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ConConfounder said:

And his "revised figures" are just more deliberate lies.

 

in the real world.

 

jag off

 

Kleck himself made a statement about his revised figures

 

how is that lying from the firearm industry ?

 

good lord 

 

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