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I think we can agree that this is a troll forum but it is a microcosm of what social media has become. There is no debating conservative vs liberal ideology and policy here or anywhere. The words liberal, conservative, progressive, socialist have lost their meaning and most of the people using those words cannot define them or understand them. We are dealing with deplorable ignoramuses and since there is no reasoning with them, all we can do is mock and ridicule them on every level. 

 

Obama was right when he said that Trump is a symptom. Maybe it is time to focus attention on the vile Republican base? 

 

The Trumpers continue to paint themselves into a corner and we should be exposing it. They are jumping on the accusations about a Lt governor Fairfax who is facing sexual misconduct allegations but they were silent about Brett Kavanaugh until they attacked his victim. This type of hypocrisy is less about Trump and more about the trash that supports him. Trump and other top Republicans have earned the hate but IMO none of them have earned the hate as much as their base. 

 

Strategy? ATTACK THE BASE and DON'T EVER STOP!

 

My strategy is parody and biting satire. I know their routine and their script. They are so predictable.

 

You thoughts and ideas?

 

 

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5 hours ago, BlueDoggL said:

My strategy is parody and biting satire. I know their routine and their script. They are so predictable.

 

TRUMP SUPPORTS FAN SITE    :---    For me, what is missing from this site and your satirical approach is any kind of coherent vision for a Liberal USA.  An uncommon satirical attack like this could work, very well, because it turns the tables by mocking Cons, in a fact-based manner of which they are incapable of mocking or taunting Liberals.  But what is missing from such a strategy is a vision of a post-Trump, Liberal USA.

 

IMO, to be effective, negative taunting and mocking needs to be accompanied by a positive idea of what a  Liberal USA would look like.  This is one of the weaknesses of the right's taunting and mocking approach.  They often fail to provide the perception of what their ideology would accomplish.  And when they do, it's usually unconvincing fantasy. (e.g.  "Anyone can become a millionaire").

 

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3 hours ago, bludog said:

 

TRUMP SUPPORTS FAN SITE    :---    For me, what is missing from this site and your satirical approach is any kind of coherent vision for a Liberal USA.  An uncommon satirical attack like this could work, very well, because it turns the tables by mocking Cons, in a fact-based manner of which they are incapable of mocking or taunting Liberals.  But what is missing from such a strategy is a vision of a post-Trump, Liberal USA.

 

IMO, to be effective, negative taunting and mocking needs to be accompanied by a positive idea of what a  Liberal USA would look like.  This is one of the weaknesses of the right's taunting and mocking approach.  They often fail to provide the perception of what their ideology would accomplish.  And when they do, it's usually unconvincing fantasy. (e.g.  "Anyone can become a millionaire").

 

 

I think that is for others to do. I simply beat the snot out of them. I use other forums for how America needs to be.

 

The solutions are simple. 

 

1. Change the laws regarding corporations and the gangsters who run them. When rich people break the law they get punished severely. That would solve a lot of problems.

 

2. Revive the fairness doctrine. 

 

3. Make lying a crime because it is not protected speech because if we did, there would be opposing view and debate on liberals vs conservative vs libertarian and big vs small government. 

 

4. Move to an egalitarian society.  A CEO should not ear 600 times more than the guy who cleans his office.

 

We need to all face the fact that the GOP base is rotten to the core and the reason decent moral conservatives don't run as Republicans is because they are decent moral people. What happens is they go into the Democratic party. Let's face it, from a policy perspective Obama was a conservative.  Today, if we were to put a Black or female face on some of Reagan's policies the cons would be screaming socialist. 

 

Immoral cannot can't be reasoned with and fascists are born fascists. When a Nazi is running his mouth on the street his swastika scream his intent more than his mealy mouthed words and narrative. The intent of a Nazi is to rid the world on all non whites. 

 

The aim of the oligarch is to create a kleptocracy. 

 

We are either with the teachings and the morality of Jesus Christ or we are with Ayn Rand.  And even though Jesus is a fictional character I'm with him and any who calls themselves Christians cannot reconcile their support of Trump, McConnell, Ryan, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, Joe Walsh, Sarah Palin, Laura Ingraham etc... etc... etc.... With those slime it is not about liberalism vs conservatism. With them it is about good vs bad and those scumbags are not as evil as their base.

 

I mock and ridicule the cons, the fake Christians, the traitors, the banksters, the liars and the Trump trash.  There are other methods for dealing with them but I attack attack attack and take no prisoners. I defend America and democracy and I fight traitors, liars and tyrants and I do it within the law.  If Antifa wants to punch Nazis and burn Klansman in their sheets, I won't judge them by imposing my morality on them and if everything breaks down I would join them.

 

When it comes to fighting for democracy I don't fight fair. 

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17 hours ago, BlueDoggL said:

You thoughts and ideas?

 

Stupidity doesn't make arrogant stupid people any smarter.

 

What they need is to lose the arrogance and acknowledge the stupidity; then they can start to learn.

 

Feeding them this will just ramp up the arrogance.

 

Still ... knock yourself out. even if it doesn't help, you''ll probably have some fun.

 

But really ...   "Lott" ??   "Albert Eisenstein"  ??!?

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10 hours ago, BlueDoggL said:

I think that is for others to do. I simply beat the snot out of them. I use other forums for how America needs to be.

 

I see where you're coming from a lot better now.

 

While I applaud your vision for the US, on the whole;   Making lying a crime, cannot be done without the imposition of tyrannical measures.  And then only one point of view would be allowed.  Perception of the truth is too subjective to outlaw lying.

 

 

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1 hour ago, bludog said:

 

I see where you're coming from a lot better now.

 

While I applaud your vision for the US, on the whole;   Making lying a crime, cannot be done without the imposition of tyrannical measures.  And then only one point of view would be allowed.  Perception of the truth is too subjective to outlaw lying.

 

 

 

People get sued for lying and arrested for it. Lots of Trump's turds are going to prison for lying and perjury.  Companies get fined for false advertising. I don't think it would be unreasonable to fine political campaigns for running false advertising.

 

Mark Twain said that a lie goes half way around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. Untangling a lie or a set of lies takes a lot of work. Republicans keep throwing Bad word hoping some if it will stick. They are practiced and skilled liars. They lie because lying works and because lying is allowed and tolerated. 

 

We got lied into war and we have now been in the Middle East for nearly 20 years. Worse than that we destabilized the region and perhaps millions of people died and most of them were innocent. The WMD lie was cooked up by Cheney so that he and his corporate buddies could get even wealthier. Lying is worse than theft.

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1 hour ago, BlueDoggL said:

People get sued for lying and arrested for it. Lots of Trump's turds are going to prison for lying and perjury.  Companies get fined for false advertising. I don't think it would be unreasonable to fine political campaigns for running false advertising

 

Lies can be prosecuted, in disputes when legalities are involved.  It is a big jump trying to transfer that principle to political campaigns.  If false political advertising could be fined, what would prevent the party in power from bankrupting the other party, preventing it from ever taking power again?

 

The person or group which becomes the authority on what is true and what are lies, would become the most powerful political entity in the Nation.  Who would decide who is lying?  Would him/her/they be elected or appointees?  Or would the correctness of interpretations be decided in court?  Would the amount of the fines be fixed somehow, or infinite?

 

1 hour ago, BlueDoggL said:

Mark Twain said that a lie goes half way around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. Untangling a lie or a set of lies takes a lot of work. Republicans keep throwing Bad word hoping some if it will stick. They are practiced and skilled liars. They lie because lying works and because lying is allowed and tolerated. 

 

We got lied into war and we have now been in the Middle East for nearly 20 years. Worse than that we destabilized the region and perhaps millions of people died and most of them were innocent. The WMD lie was cooked up by Cheney so that he and his corporate buddies could get even wealthier. Lying is worse than theft.

 

This is all indisputable.  Lying is evil in the vast majority of cases.  I am against political deceit.  But I think outlawing it would cause far more problems than it would solve. 

 

Rather, there needs to be some way of debunking lies before they take hold in popular consciousness.  Just as Goebbels perfected "The Big Lie" and Republicans improved on it, there has to be some procedural method of defeating it.  We just haven't found it yet.   Firearms made steel, plate armor ineffective;  But the tool to defeat political lying has not yet been developed.

 

Surely education combined with critical thinking, helps.  And intellect.  We know that scientists as a group least likely to fall prey to political lies.  And partly as a result, scientists are more Liberal than other groups of Americans.  That's why Republicans try to limit higher education to elites only.

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4 hours ago, laripu said:

 

Stupidity doesn't make arrogant stupid people any smarter.

 

What they need is to lose the arrogance and acknowledge the stupidity; then they can start to learn.

 

Feeding them this will just ramp up the arrogance.

 

Still ... knock yourself out. even if it doesn't help, you''ll probably have some fun.

 

But really ...   "Lott" ??   "Albert Eisenstein"  ??!?

 

This goes to nurture vs nature. Some people are just no damn good. Trump could have had the best parenting and he still would have been a shit. Behavior has a large genetic component. Good parenting doesn't always produce good kids and bad parenting doesn't always produce bad kids. Obama came from a fatherless home and his father was a cheater and Obama is a good moral family man. That goes to his basic nature. He adores his wife. His daughters are wonderful. Trump is a different story. By all accounts his siblings turned out OK, but his kids are another story. Eric and Don Jr are pigs and so is Ivanka. Ivanka married a crook just like her daddy you lusts for her. Eric and Don Bad word all over their wives.

 

I am not responsible for the mental state or the education of Trump trash. My responsibility is to my family and my country.  With few exceptions, Trump trash is beyond redemption so it is a waste of time making the effort to reach them. I read some articles about German POWs in camps in the US. There were nearly 1 million of them. After seeing the US most of them rejected the Nazi propaganda and many of them eventually came to live in the US. Members of the Waffen SS were very different. They were beyond redemption. People like Josef Mengle are beyond redemption. Trump trash is not going to have any sort of epiphany and have a come to Jesus moment. The are not capable. 

 

Laws are not created because of good people. Laws are created to protect good people from bad people. Libertarians in theory make sense but we are not living in a perfect world. There are a lot of bad people and the notion that there is good in everyone is not only naive, it is dangerous.

 

By every metric the red states are immoral and it can't all be chalked up to nurture.  A very different class of people settled in the south. They think it is moral to enslave people and treat them worse than barnyard animals. They felt justified in committing treason against their country while calling their treason a war for state rights and the war of Northern aggression. The hijacked Christianity to justify the immoral acts. When they were defeated they would not accept it. They then instituted the Jim Crow laws. In their twisted souls they terrorized non whites and removed their legal and human rights.  Their behavior is evil and it is against the laws of nature and God. 

 

They are not the same type of animal that we are. There are provable differences in their brains. Huskies, German Shepherds, Coyotes, and Wolves look a lot alike they can even interbreed but their are marked differences and before you cry eugenics look at the science. Wolves and coyotes cannot be trusted and they cannot be made trustworthy. The wolf is more noble and honorable than the Trumptard. 

 

tumblr_midir9qpSM1qg53kdo1_r1_500.png

 

The difference between them and us is the difference between Jesus Christ and Ayn Rand. We are with the teachings and morals of Jesus Christ and they are with the ravings of Ayn Rand. It is not even a choice with them or us. Wild horses could not drag us to Ayn Rand and wild horses could not drag them to the morality of Christ. It is not in their nature. 

 

Why waste our energies trying to reach them? I can see debating a real conservative and argue the virtues of regulation vs not enough regulation or state rights or abortion, or gay marriage or constitutional issues but Trump trash lack the ability to do that. They call people who are paleo conservatives liberals. They call moderates liberals. The even call the 60% of independents who oppose Trump liberals. While some of this goes to their love of ignorance and hatred of anything non White and truly Christian it really goes to their nature. Seeing  as how  we won't cull them the way we would dangerous dogs, our best option IMO is th demoralized them and since they feel now shame we can only demolish their toxic egos.

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34 minutes ago, BlueDoggL said:

This goes to nurture vs nature. Some people are just no damn good. Trump could have had the best parenting and he still would have been a shit. Behavior has a large genetic component. Good parenting doesn't always produce good kids and bad parenting doesn't always produce bad kids. Obama came from a fatherless home and his father was a cheater and Obama is a good moral family man. That goes to his basic nature. He adores his wife. His daughters are wonderful. Trump is a different story. By all accounts his siblings turned out OK, but his kids are another story. Eric and Don Jr are pigs and so is Ivanka. Ivanka married a crook just like her daddy you lusts for her. Eric and Don Bad word all over their wives.

 

 

I agree with every word of that. Except the substitution of "Bad word" for $h1t. ☺️

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1 hour ago, bludog said:

 

Lies can be prosecuted, in disputes when legalities are involved.  It is a big jump trying to transfer that principle to political campaigns.  If false political advertising could be fined, what would prevent the party in power from bankrupting the other party, preventing it from ever taking power again?

 

When those lies go over the public airways it become a criminal matter. The entity fined would be the broadcasters. The FCC can levy fines if a broadcasters refuses to stop running a deceptive ad. That law is not enforced. Fines are not enough but when corporations are involved the people within the corporations who break law on behalf of those corporations never get punished. Local broadcaster are corporations.

 

Advertising is advertising and if it is deceptive it is a crime.

 

1 hour ago, bludog said:

The person or group which becomes the authority on what is true and what are lies, would become the most powerful political entity in the Nation.  Who would decide who is lying?  Would him/her/they be elected or appointees?  Or would the correctness of interpretations be decided in court?  Would the amount of the fines be fixed somehow, or infinite?

 

Lies are easy to define and detect, A lie happens when someone says something they know is untrue but says it anyway. It's not complicated. Iraq has WMDs. Was a lie but when Powell said it, be didn't know he was lying. IMO the people who cooked up those lies should be tried for war crimes. You can bet the same trash that defends Trump's lies would defend Cheney and his mob.

 

In the case of a TV station the FCC tells the station manager to pull the deceptive ad and if the station manager fails to comply the station manager leaves in handcuffs. 

 

I think the first offense should come with a warning and a retraction. After that arrests and fines and jail.

 

If the station fights the charge it will go to court. 

 

If a campaign continually delivers false advertising to stations or through the US mail the candidate is disqualified from ever holding public office and could face fines and imprisonment. 

 

1 hour ago, bludog said:

 

This is all indisputable.  Lying is evil in the vast majority of cases.  I am against political deceit.  But I think outlawing it would cause far more problems than it would solve. 

When liars are punished they will lie less. Lying is the problem.

1 hour ago, bludog said:

 

Rather, there needs to be some way of debunking lies before they take hold in popular consciousness.  Just as Goebbels perfected "The Big Lie" and Republicans improved on it, there has to be some procedural method of defeating it.  We just haven't found it yet.   Firearms made steel, plate armor ineffective;  But the tool to defeat political lying has not yet been developed.

 

Debunking Republican lies is like asking a fire department to put out fires set by an arsonist that the police will not arrest.  Trump lies 10 to 20 lies a day. Republican have perfected the art of the lie. They suck at governing but they are skilled at lying because that is all they do. 

 

The tool is there to stop lying, it is called the law. Fraud is a crime. Trump Jr is committed perjury when he lied on his security form. Lying put Manafort behind bars.

 

1 hour ago, bludog said:

Surely education combined with critical thinking, helps.  And intellect.  We know that scientists as a group least likely to fall prey to political lies.  And partly as a result, scientists are more Liberal than other groups of Americans.  That's why Republicans try to limit higher education to elites only.

 

Education can help to some degree but ignorance is a choice and it is generally a choice to avoid knowing the truth. Republicans want their base ignorant but their base want to be ignorant. Even someone with a GED has the choice to be informed but they choose to be dumb and allow others to think for them. That is why Fox News is popular. They enjoy being in that echo chamber. They enjoy that filthy venomous liar Jeanine Pirro. The love feeling their fake moral outrage. People were far less formally educated 50 years ago but they were less ignorant.

 

 

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On 2/5/2019 at 5:01 PM, BlueDoggL said:

I think we can agree that this is a troll forum but it is a microcosm of what social media has become.

 

I've never seen it this bad in NHB.

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19 hours ago, BlueDoggL said:

The FCC can levy fines if a broadcasters refuses to stop running a deceptive ad. That law is not enforced. Fines are not enough but when corporations are involved the people within the corporations who break law on behalf of those corporations never get punished. Local broadcaster are corporations.

 

The FCC is directed by 5 commissioners, for 5 year terms, appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate.   The president designates one of the commissioners as "chairman".  Only 3 commissioners may be members of the same party. 

 

If the FCC started levying fines on broadcasters who run deceptive ads, the position of FCC director would suddenly become vastly more consequential.   If so, future Republican administrations,  would find a way, legitimate or not, to make the FCC a political arm of the Republican party ...  Look at how they ram Republican Supreme Court nominees through.

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12 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

I've never seen it this bad in NHB.

It's because they are running scared.

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8 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

 

The FCC is directed by 5 commissioners, for 5 year terms, appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate.   The president designates one of the commissioners as "chairman".  Only 3 commissioners may be members of the same party. 

 

If the FCC started levying fines on broadcasters who run deceptive ads, the position of FCC director would suddenly become vastly more consequential.   If so, future Republican administrations,  would find a way, legitimate or not, to make the FCC a political arm of the Republican party ...  Look at how they ram Republican Supreme Court nominees through.

 

 

The FCC's regulatory powers extend only to over-the-air broadcasters, who transmit their programs via the publicy owned spectrum.

 

This excludes cable news, but includes Sinclair, and local Fox affiliates..

 

The  FCC sold must of the publicly owned cellular spectrum to private companies, so they cannot regulate cellphone news content like Russian trolls on Facebook. It's funny, I don't remember the public ever being compensated for those billion dollar corporate giveaways.

 

This is another example of the hidden cost of privatization.

 

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12 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

 

The FCC is directed by 5 commissioners, for 5 year terms, appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate.   The president designates one of the commissioners as "chairman".  Only 3 commissioners may be members of the same party. 

 

If the FCC started levying fines on broadcasters who run deceptive ads, the position of FCC director would suddenly become vastly more consequential.   If so, future Republican administrations,  would find a way, legitimate or not, to make the FCC a political arm of the Republican party ...  Look at how they ram Republican Supreme Court nominees through.

 

There is a  Sinclair owned station in our area. I confronted them about their propaganda news stories and political ads they were running. There response was "How are we supposed to know that they are dishonest?" I told then that it is their responsibility to know. Then I put the fear of God in them with God being money. I sent emails to their local sponsors with instructions on how to advertise on Youtube and why Youtube's geo targeting ads are much more cost effective than tv advertising.  I hurt them financially. 

 

Sinclair is right wing propaganda.

Sinclair Made Dozens of Local News Anchors Recite the Same ...

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8 minutes ago, ExPDXer said:

 

 

The FCC's regulatory powers extend only to over-the-air broadcasters, who transmit their programs via the publicy owned spectrum.

 

This excludes cable news, but includes Sinclair, and local Fox affiliates..

 

The  FCC sold must of the publicly owned cellular spectrum to private companies, so they cannot regulate cellphone news content like Russian trolls on Facebook. It's funny, I don't remember the public ever being compensated for those billion dollar corporate giveaways.

 

This is another example of the hidden cost of privatization.

 

 

Technically the feeds go over the air via satellite.  

 

The fairness doctrine is gone and television news is mostly propaganda but some advertisers have dropped Fox and some affiliate radio stations have dropped  Limbaugh and his ilk. 

 

We have PBS but their content is geared to people with high school educations and above. Fox appeals to people with sub-par IQs. The average IQ is 100 but in the US it is 98. The average for the red states is around 90. There need to be an honest news service that appeals to people with low IQs, the culturally deprived, the vocabulary deficient and the poorly educated. We need a Sesame street type of program or channel for poorly educated and low people. I think that the poorly educated can understand the concept of fairness and perhaps egalitarianism. The poor wage slave who works is a factory or fast food may be able to grasp the idea that the inequity between what a CEO is given is immoral compared to what th average American earns. CEO Pay Has Grown 90 Times Faster than Typical Worker Pay ... 

 

They can understand unfairness when it is happening to them. We liberal tend to whine about it but the redneck is more likely to use a 2nd amendment solution. The Billionaire class is not afraid of up. Most of use have a better quality of life than the peasants in the red states.

 

Sometimes liberals intellectualize and overly analyze situations. Some things are cut and dried. The rich are destroying democracy especially in the US. When the poorly educated realize that the government that they hate so much is really owned and controlled by the rich they will hate congress less and maybe focus their energies on the corporate thugs who are above the law. The mainstream media is pretty much the propaganda with of the corporate elite.

 

See the source image

 

Sinclair Made Dozens of Local News Anchors Recite the Same ...

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3 hours ago, BlueDoggL said:

There need to be an honest news service that appeals to people with low IQs, the culturally deprived, the vocabulary deficient and the poorly educated. We need a Sesame street type of program or channel for poorly educated and low people. I think that the poorly educated can understand the concept of fairness and perhaps egalitarianism. The poor wage slave who works is a factory or fast food may be able to grasp the idea that the inequity between what a CEO is given is immoral compared to what th average American earns.

 

Allow me to float a contrary idea, that agrees with some of your points, but not the conclusion.

 

As long as the plutocracy controls a share of the media, stupid people will believe it: because that plutocratically controlled media doesn't feel restricted by truth or morality and so can make itself as entertaining as it needs to be to attract the cerebrally attenuated. They can present their view out of cortex, so to speak. 😉

 

And what if you manage to convince some of the "poor in spirit"? You night get a slim majority for one election, and they'll turn it around for the next.

 

My idea is: you're trying to convince the wrong people.

 

Many (not all) rich people are intelligent. Whether moral or immoral, most are above average in intelligence. After all, how do you get rich? You can figure out a way to get away with crime (like Mafiosi, or the Trump family), or you can do something innovative (Gates, Bezos, Zukerberg) or you can just manage something well (Walton family) or some combination of initial crime and subsequent good management (Bronfman family).

 

If you can convince rich people that the Japanese / German / French model is better for them, then they'll sell the idea through their media to the numbskulls. And society will change because the people that really control it will want it to change.

 

There are far fewer really rich people than there are stupid people, so it ought to be easier to convince a majority of that group. Some are already open to the idea, e.g. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet. But you'll need a strong majority of the people with > $500 million for this idea to fly.

 

It can be done. After all, it has already been done, at least in Japan and Germany and France.  Arguably Canada too. They all have universal healthcare, because their rich people want it that way.

 

In Europe, the idea has always come from fear of violent revolution: make life ok for people or they'll revolt and chop heads. We haven't had that experience here (and shouldn't!). But the really rich should be convinced that it's both more moral and also better for them to be taxed at 70% on income over $10 million, if doing that makes society work better for the least able among us. Because the least able are still capable of chopping heads, and eventually you run out of scapegoats.

 

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1 hour ago, laripu said:

Allow me to float a contrary idea, that agrees with some of your points, but not the conclusion.

 

As long as the plutocracy controls a share of the media, stupid people will believe it: because that plutocratically controlled media doesn't feel restricted by truth or morality and so can make itself as entertaining as it needs to be to attract the cerebrally attenuated. They can present their view out of cortex, so to speak. 😉

+10 ...

There are sources of information available that are completely peer reviewed, and factual.

Unfortunately, there are many very important issues facing the country do not lend themselves to be entertaining, or 'dumbed-down'.

Education is the answer.

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1 hour ago, laripu said:

 

Allow me to float a contrary idea, that agrees with some of your points, but not the conclusion.

 

As long as the plutocracy controls a share of the media, stupid people will believe it: because that plutocratically controlled media doesn't feel restricted by truth or morality and so can make itself as entertaining as it needs to be to attract the cerebrally attenuated. They can present their view out of cortex, so to speak. 😉

 

And what if you manage to convince some of the "poor in spirit"? You night get a slim majority for one election, and they'll turn it around for the next.

 

My idea is: you're trying to convince the wrong people.

 

Many (not all) rich people are intelligent. Whether moral or immoral, most are above average in intelligence. After all, how do you get rich? You can figure out a way to get away with crime (like Mafiosi, or the Trump family), or you can do something innovative (Gates, Bezos, Zukerberg) or you can just manage something well (Walton family) or some combination of initial crime and subsequent good management (Bronfman family).

 

If you can convince rich people that the Japanese / German / French model is better for them, then they'll sell the idea through their media to the numbskulls. And society will change because the people that really control it will want it to change.

 

There are far fewer really rich people than there are stupid people, so it ought to be easier to convince a majority of that group. Some are already open to the idea, e.g. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet. But you'll need a strong majority of the people with > $500 million for this idea to fly.

 

It can be done. After all, it has already been done, at least in Japan and Germany and France.  Arguably Canada too. They all have universal healthcare, because their rich people want it that way.

 

In Europe, the idea has always come from fear of violent revolution: make life ok for people or they'll revolt and chop heads. We haven't had that experience here (and shouldn't!). But the really rich should be convinced that it's both more moral and also better for them to be taxed at 70% on income over $10 million, if doing that makes society work better for the least able among us. Because the least able are still capable of chopping heads, and eventually you run out of scapegoats.

 

 

I think the oligarchs are fighting among themselves when it comes to health care. Obama care didn't do much to fix the problem. Corporate America  already knows that single payer is best for their profits but the Medical Mafia is nearly 20% of the US GDP and they are in control of the FDA, insurance industry and congress. France does health care better than the US and for about 1/2 the cost. They have universal health care. You average rightie doesn't want to know that because the are simple evil and ignorant.  They hate anything and anyone that is not White, simple minded and educated.  The funny thing is, Bernie reaches some of them. Maybe they don't know he's a Jew.

 

Universal health care is good business for every industry but the medical industry. Currently the American medical industrial complex is unregulated from the White Coats, to the hospitals to big pharma. Even Trump supported Universal Health care although he is not smart enough nor does he have the people around him to make it happen

 

The oligarchy can be defeated tomorrow. When their private jets start falling out of the sky and their mansions come under drone attack, they will surrender. Terrorism works. Look what it did to the US. Our freedom are not what they used to be. The funny thing is, most terror attacks in the US are done by righties. Righties do it for several reasons. They are more likely to have mental health issues. They listen to trash like Alex Jones. They have no honor.  They are stupid and ignorant but if only a small percentage of them could connect the dots and see that government is not the problem but rather the plutocrats are the problem, the plutocrats would be in deep trouble here and around the world. The 2nd amendment may comeback to bite the treasonous NRA in the azz. 

 

If the Dems and the Repugs really wanted to stop gun violence they could simply make psych meds controlled substances because under the 1973 gun control act anyone on a controlled substance can't have a gun. That won't ever happen and as simple as it sounds, guns don't kill people, people kill people. What the right can't accept is the idea that rights come with responsibilities and sadly many righties are responsible enough to be trusted with fire arms.  Their reasons for having guns are often bad reasons. They treat guns like they are toys. They have guns to feel powerful because in reality they know they are losers. Normal people have guns for, sporting, hunting and self defense.  They types of guns righties cum in their pants over are military assault weapons that suck for self-defense and hunting.

 

Jessie Ventura compared th rich to "ball hawks". A ball hawk is a golfer who collects lost golf balls. Jessie is a ball hawk. He has more golf balls that he could use in 10 lifetimes but he keeps collecting more. That's quite harmless. Wealth is finite and if only a few people have most of the wealth the majority will not have enough. The billionaire class doesn't think of that. They have so much health that more wealth won't do anything to improve the quality of their miserable life. The peasants are probably happier and more well adjusted than the mega MAGA rich.

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46 minutes ago, ExPDXer said:

Education only works on people who can and want to be educated. A lot of people prefer ignorance to enlightenment. History is full of examples of that. 

 

Politics is not the only thing that makes the Bible belt ignorant, uncultured, backward and sinful. There is a genetic component. Intelligent people produce intelligent kids. Behavior can be inherited. Trump's slimy kids are probably a product of nurture and nature. All their mothers are gold digging whores and they were raised by a pimp and a whore. Really, what could a respectable women find appealing in Donald Trump other than his wealth?  I bet even a whore like Melania cringes when he comes near her. 

 

People either care about being good citizen or they don't. Churches either teach Christian values or they don't and in the Bible belt their Christ in an angry punitive petty little bitch who care more about what same sex couples do than they care about the well being of their human family and brother and sisters in Christ. The have their Sunday school and their Bibles but they choose to be cafeteria Christians and only read the parts that satisfy their need to condemn anyone different than them. Education? They hate education, and science. These people think the earth is flat and is 5000 years old because the some jerk off like Ken Ham told them so. 

 

It come down to can't vs won't. People today have more information at their finger tips than in anytime in history and they ignore it. That's a choice and it is their nature to make the choice to be ignorant. There are curious people are they are the scientists and explorers and then there are the apathetic righties. They don't want to know.

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Dear BlueDoggL,

 

You are full of it. Am I right or am I wrong?

 

Only you would know. 

 

Not that I would care what you think.

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this is the way it works in Russia.

You cannot tell who is KGB after awhile.

Mr B knows full well.

 

I'm so sorry Putin is such a screw up and how he keeps his people down. And how they are so afraid to stand up to his bull.

 

 

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10 hours ago, TheOldBarn said:

this is the way it works in Russia.

You cannot tell who is KGB after awhile.

Mr B knows full well.

 

I'm so sorry Putin is such a screw up and how he keeps his people down. And how they are so afraid to stand up to his bull.

 

 

Back in 1776 there was tyrant named king George and King George needed his ass kicked and that's what happened. Russia will remain a shit hole country as long as it is run by oligarchs. The Russian people can whine about their oligarchs the same as liberals whine about the oligarchs here and whine about the fact that America is plutocracy and a not so soft fascist state and nothing will change. Money is power.

 

Is Ron Paul Right that Corporatism is Soft Fascism ... IS HE?????

 

What do you think is going to cause the oligarchs to change..... morals?

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10 hours ago, TheOldBarn said:

Dear BlueDoggL,

 

You are full of it. Am I right or am I wrong?

I probably can't explain how wrong you are in a way you would understand.

10 hours ago, TheOldBarn said:

Only you would know. 

 

Not that I would care what you think.

 

How about we get together with the depraved Trump mob, the billionaire and talk to them about the morals and teachings of Jesus Christ and sing Kumbaya. I bet that would get through to them. I bet if we did that the racist white trash who support Trump would end their racisim an become good citizen. I bet the 1% would follow the teachings of Jesus and pay their fair share of taxes, insist that they be subject to the anti-trust laws and pay the peasants a living wage.

 

Of course you don't care what I think. That is why you responded 3 times in a row.  The truth is, what I said was not congruent with your world view and for a moment you saw the world where your rose colored glasses don't cover your eyes. 

 

Maybe Lincoln just should have asked the traitors in the savage South to free the slaves. I'm sure they would have complied if he had been nice about it and appealed the their sense of morality but no Lincoln got angry when the South attacked Fort Sumter. That was SOOOOOO mean. Then he ordered troops to free those poor confused traitors in the South. The reason that they enslaved and abused millions of human beings was because they were a bit confused. They really were not bad people. There is good in everyone. But that mean old Abraham Lincoln didn't see it that way.

 

Hitler was also just confused too. Had Neville Chamberlain been given a little more time, Hitler and the Nazis would have been a good boys.The whole world over reacted to the Holocaust and Pearl Harbor. Let's let bygones be bygones. 

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