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XavierOnassis

I Challenge you to speculate

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11 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

Okay. what would you be willing to send to Kim to cause him to dispose of his nukes?

I based my comment on the likelihood that the USA is not going to bribe the DPRK forever.

It is true that we seem to be bribing the Egyptians for not attacking Israel for a very, very long time, but then again, one bomb at Aswan could cause 80% of Egypt to drown in a flood.The DPRK is not in a similar physical situation.

Normalization of relations which would include foreign aid that we provide many other nations. 

I would provide them hardware for farming, and all the seed they needed to plant/raise their own crops. 

I'd open the country up to outside investment, and "exploitation" by greedy corporations that would want to go into the country.

And yes, I would guarantee Kim's personal security, as long as he "played nice" and followed the rules/law.

 

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1 minute ago, Golfboy said:

I'd open the country up to outside investment, and "exploitation" by greedy corporations that would want to go into the country.

And yes, I would guarantee Kim's personal security, as long as he "played nice" and followed the rules/law.

  

Why would China agree to this? China does not want unification of the Koreas. China does not want outside investment in the DPRK.

I do not think that the US could guarantee economic support of Kim for long.

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11 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

Why would China agree to this? China does not want unification of the Koreas. China does not want outside investment in the DPRK.

I do not think that the US could guarantee economic support of Kim for long.

What does China have to say about it?

Why wouldn't China want NKorea to be able to stand on their own, and not be dependent on China handouts?

 

We wouldn't need a long agreement.  10 years of our financial support, and then they're on their own.

By that time, they couldn't revert to the "hermit kingdom" if they wanted to. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Golfboy said:

What does China have to say about it?

Why wouldn't China want NKorea to be able to stand on their own, and not be dependent on China handouts?

 

China has over a million ethnic Koreans living across the DPRK border in the PRC. Koreans are not Chinese and do not wish to be Chinese.

China values the stability of China over the potential non-Chinese capitalist development across its border.

 

 

China trades coal for goods with the DPRK, or has happily done so in the past.

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52 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

How much money would you think Kim should be given to turn over his nukes?

 

As much as it takes !

 

Ronald Reagan said...It is cheaper to feed them than fight them.

 

how true, how true.

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2 minutes ago, Old Mack said:

 

As much as it takes !

 

Ronald Reagan said...It is cheaper to feed them than fight them.

 

how true, how true.

There have always been a lot of Americans that are against foreign aid to any country.

If someone were sending you a blank check every year, what amount would YOU write on it?

Reagan is deceased, just like his amnesty policy. Dead as two dormice, as it were.

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3 minutes ago, XavierOnassis said:

If someone were sending you a blank check every year, what amount would YOU write on it?

 

A gazillion dollars.

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2 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

Just assume for a spell that you wake up one morning to find that you are Kim Jung Un.

Now, under what circumstances would you decide to dispose of your nuclear weapons?

I cannot imagine how he would think that this would be a wise move.

He clearly is not interested in the well-being of his citizens, as we have seen.

He has nothing to export to the US in exchange for doing away with his nukes.

I am pretty sure that he is aware of what happened to the governments of South Africa, Argentina, and Libya when they abandoned their nuclear weapons programs.

Add to that...

 

I know US sanctions serve to keep us poor and starving....even though they say "I" am starving my people......

 

So...I will do everything possible to keep close relationships with China, Russia, and as much as possible with S. Korea.

 

I know that the US will never leave us alone... because we refuse to be a US vassal state or puppet

 

I know I risk NK being leveled Mafia style like Bammy did Libya or Bush did Iraq

 

I know that the US rarely follows international law.....no matter who is President

 

I know that US imperialism is the scourge of the world.....but I will risk not licking the MAFIA'S sack

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48 minutes ago, CrimeaRiver said:

Add to that...

 

I know US sanctions serve to keep us poor and starving....even though they say "I" am starving my people......

 

So...I will do everything possible to keep close relationships with China, Russia, and as much as possible with S. Korea.

 

I know that the US will never leave us alone... because we refuse to be a US vassal state or puppet

 

I know I risk NK being leveled Mafia style like Bammy did Libya or Bush did IraqI SUCK DICK

 

I know that the US rarely follows international law.....no matter who is President

 

I know that US imperialism is the scourge of the world.....but I will risk not licking the MAFIA'S sack

 

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1 hour ago, XavierOnassis said:

China has over a million ethnic Koreans living across the DPRK border in the PRC. Koreans are not Chinese and do not wish to be Chinese.

China values the stability of China over the potential non-Chinese capitalist development across its border.

 

 

China trades coal for goods with the DPRK, or has happily done so in the past.

Wouldn't a free, open, prosperous DPRK be a GOOD thing for China?  Those "million ethnic" Koreans could go home, and China wouldn't' have to support them anymore. 

The DPRK produces next to nothing that China needs or wants.   The only thing they want from Korea currently is a barrier between themselves and SKorea/US. 

If Kim can survive and prosper with the U.S. and the the world's help and support, he wouldn't need China the way he does today.  

That's Kim's decision, not China.

 

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2 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

It is clear to me that a sizeable percentage of the people of the DPRK admire and even worship Kim Jung Un. There are still millions of Russians who admire Mao and Stalin.

 

If he is perceived of as being weak, I think he would lose a lot of his popularity. Disposing of his nukes (which were seen as a great technological triumph in the DPRK media)   would be seen as weakness or capitulation to China and the US.

 

I don't think that Kim is admirable. But I also don't think he is stupid. I think his instinct for self-preservation outweighs his desire to improve the lot of his people. Most of them cannot imagine the prosperity of South Korea. We know this from what defectors from the DPRK have told us.

I think he will keep enough nukes to act as a deterrent regionally. MAD works and I somehow doubt the US is willing to pull its nuclear capabilities from the region, much less disarm our thousands of standoff weapons capable of hitting his country. He may well work towards peace between the two Koreas, moving towards unification. We should give diplomacy a chance, understanding neither side is willing to give up nuclear defense or protection. 

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4 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

Just assume for a spell that you wake up one morning to find that you are Kim Jung Un.

Now, under what circumstances would you decide to dispose of your nuclear weapons?

I cannot imagine how he would think that this would be a wise move.

He clearly is not interested in the well-being of his citizens, as we have seen.

He has nothing to export to the US in exchange for doing away with his nukes.

I am pretty sure that he is aware of what happened to the governments of South Africa, Argentina, and Libya when they abandoned their nuclear weapons programs.

 

For food, electricity, steel, 
North Korea is a country with a lot of needs

 

3 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

It is clear to me that a sizeable percentage of the people of the DPRK admire and even worship Kim Jung Un. There are still millions of Russians who admire Mao and Stalin.

 

If he is perceived of as being weak, I think he would lose a lot of his popularity. Disposing of his nukes (which were seen as a great technological triumph in the DPRK media)   would be seen as weakness or capitulation to China and the US.

 

I don't think that Kim is admirable. But I also don't think he is stupid. I think his instinct for self-preservation outweighs his desire to improve the lot of his people. Most of them cannot imagine the prosperity of South Korea. We know this from what defectors from the DPRK have told us.

 

The people with food may like him, the people without food won't.

 

North Korea is a country where the people fear the government, where people disappear in the middle of the night never to be seen again, which is why you're defending it so much. 

What is amazing to me is the fact that this conversation is occuring. It never would have happened under Obama.

 

2 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

Why would China agree to this? China does not want unification of the Koreas. China does not want outside investment in the DPRK.

I do not think that the US could guarantee economic support of Kim for long.

 

Why wouldn't they?

 

2 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

China has over a million ethnic Koreans living across the DPRK border in the PRC. Koreans are not Chinese and do not wish to be Chinese.

China values the stability of China over the potential non-Chinese capitalist development across its border.

 

 

China trades coal for goods with the DPRK, or has happily done so in the past.

 

Have you always been so anti progressive?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Chuck! said:

 

For food, electricity, steel, 
North Korea is a country with a lot of needs

 

 

The people with food may like him, the people without food won't.

I have no idea how many people lack food in the DPRK. There have been famines in the past there. It is a mountainous, rocky country with a lack of good farmland, and the system is inefficient.

 

North Korea is a country where the people fear the government, where people disappear in the middle of the night never to be seen again, which is why you're defending it so much. 

I am IN NO WAY defending Kim Jung Un or the DPRK at all. I am simply asking posters on this forum like you  what they would do if they were Kim Jung Un.

 

What is amazing to me is the fact that this conversation is occurring. It never would have happened under Obama.

The issue has been the same between the US and Kim ever since the DPRK started to develop nukes. I would have asked it then had there been any talks between Obama and Kim

Why wouldn't they?

?? Why wouldn't who do what?

Have you always been so anti progressive?

I am very progressive. I just do not see why Kim would  give up his nukes, being as he sees them as the best way to protect himself and his government from being overthrown.

Again, China wants some sort of buffer between itself and South Korea. South Korea is no longer any sort of Third World country. Korean reunification would appeal to many among the over a million ethnic Koreans in  China.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

 

 

This is how you can tell that XO KNOWS his argument sucks, when he starts acting like William and answering inside the quote box, making it more difficult to quote him back.

I accept your concession, loser

 

 

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18 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

Just assume for a spell that you wake up one morning to find that you are Kim Jung Un.

Now, under what circumstances would you decide to dispose of your nuclear weapons?

I cannot imagine how he would think that this would be a wise move.

He clearly is not interested in the well-being of his citizens, as we have seen.

He has nothing to export to the US in exchange for doing away with his nukes.

I am pretty sure that he is aware of what happened to the governments of South Africa, Argentina, and Libya when they abandoned their nuclear weapons programs.

In his perpective, No, I would not give up one of the few things keeping my country from being invaded.

 

If I woke up a Kim Jung Uh I would make plans to free my people from the tyrranical rule over them.

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, sole result said:

wow. When a person isn't that person anymore and they become another person's person, they don't have the perception of the original person and the second person never changed their mind is going to stay in character assumed from birth.

 

for a master of several tongues, you never got life down accurately in any language.

 

Oh since I didn't play along by your rules, I lost by not joining the fantasy that becomes social facts of how people think from outside actual living as one of a kind..

Really thought to much into it.

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18 hours ago, XavierOnassis said:

Just assume for a spell that you wake up one morning to find that you are Kim Jung Un.

Now, under what circumstances would you decide to dispose of your nuclear weapons?

I cannot imagine how he would think that this would be a wise move.

He clearly is not interested in the well-being of his citizens, as we have seen.

He has nothing to export to the US in exchange for doing away with his nukes.

I am pretty sure that he is aware of what happened to the governments of South Africa, Argentina, and Libya when they abandoned their nuclear weapons programs.

I seen this talking point somewhere. Maybe the oan network...

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Does anyone speculate on what matter and energy really are??

 

Please Sole.. keep it rational..

 

But my hypothesis is the infinitely small and large seem to be  irrational

 

speculate.. create a hypothesis today..

 

consider expirementing with augmenting your endocannibinoid system.. and that the elite are doing mushrooms

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Link said:

The article is from 2013 as well that pew sited is from 2016.

 

This is a link to page four of the pew study i sited. It is a page about social engagement.

http://www.journalism.org/2016/07/07/social-engagement/

 

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1 hour ago, Link said:

I seen this talking point somewhere. Maybe the oan network...

What is the oan network?

1 hour ago, Chuck! said:

 

This is how you can tell that XO KNOWS his argument sucks, when he starts acting like William and answering inside the quote box, making it more difficult to quote him back.

I accept your concession, loser

 

 

How could answering your questions in a quote box make them more difficult to respond to?

You have not responded to the actual question at hand at all.

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Now, you're lying
Why are you lying, XO?

 

I most certainly did answer your OP question. My answer was food, electricity, and steel.
Why did you lie?

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