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progressivecitizen

Question specifically regarding Ca.

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What's the progressive argument against the following myths:

Immigrants from all over are pouring into California and causing a drain on the welfare system. This is endangering California's economic well-being.

 

Thanks!

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8 hours ago, progressivecitizen said:

What's the progressive argument against the following myths:

Immigrants from all over are pouring into California and causing a drain on the welfare system. This is endangering California's economic well-being.

 

Thanks!

 

There are at least two. One is that studies show that 'illegal immigrants' are a net economic POSITIVE. Between their doing the jobs Americans don't want for low wages, and paying into Social Security where they can never claim the money back, they give more than they get in welfare and expenses. The other is a humanitarian argument.

 

That's before getting into a topic of how many the US has caused the problems causing many to want to flee. It's useful to note that for years, there has been a net NEGATIVE migration - more Mexicans go from the US to Mexico than from Mexico to the US.

 

But for people who do come to the US, the US has caused a lot of problems causing people to flee here, including our spending billions on drugs the cartels get, and things like backing the coup in Honduras that installed a repressive regime. So there's a case for progressives to want to help people in their own countries so they don't have to move here.

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"illegal" immigrants are just the secondary victims of an economic system that CANNOT function or exist with an inexhaustible supply of lowest-level Slave Wage ditch-diggers. 

The Primary Victims are the American Workers, who have lost all power since Reagan and the RIGHT crushed the Union Movement that created the Middle Class. Once the Middle Class Wage was permanently stagnated back around 1980, and Reagan passed his Amnesty Act and then patently REFUSED to enforce or fund Sections One and Two of his own Legislation (Border Enforcement and Workplace Enforcement).undocumented aliens were courted and hired by virtually EVERY Industry to displace the American Worker and permanently-suppress Wage Growth. This is why every American construction site, every restaurant, every Hotel/Motel chain, every machine shop, body shop, metal shop, assembly house, weld shop, i.e., every manufacturing business EXCEPT the few remaining Union shops now are harboring "illegal" workers. They come here ONLY because they KNOW they can get a job, easily, despite the fact that they will likely be short-paid, forced to punch out and then back in after 8 hours, and have to work through their lunch and rest breaks.......because their depraved, greedy employer will just replace them immediately if they dare to complain. 

 

Capitalism doesn't function without 35% of the worker class earning the lowest pay, 35% earning the Median income, and 20% making about 1.5x the Median Income.

That is the only way we can provide those millionaire and billionaire annual incomes for CEOs. That is the only was America can sustain the 400 richest families in a Nation of 330 million citizens owning 80% of the country, controlling 90% of the wealth, and manipulating 100% of the financial power, legal authority, governing legislation, and all political power.

  

This is why we see so many folks working 2 and 3 jobs....just to buy groceries. If we returned America back over to when almost EVERY blue collar Job was a Union Job, circa 1946 through about 1979, we'd see the MINIMUM Pay in America be about $30 bucks per hour in the wealthiest States, and $20 per hour in the impoverished Red State South.   

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6 minutes ago, Fit2Serve said:

"illegal" immigrants are just the secondary victims of an economic system that CANNOT function or exist with an inexhaustible supply of lowest-level Slave Wage ditch-diggers. 

The Primary Victims are the American Workers, who have lost all power since Reagan and the RIGHT crushed the Union Movement that created the Middle Class. Once the Middle Class Wage was permanently stagnated back around 1980, and Reagan passed his Amnesty Act and then patently REFUSED to enforce or fund Sections One and Two of his own Legislation (Border Enforcement and Workplace Enforcement).undocumented aliens were courted and hired by virtually EVERY Industry to displace the American Worker and permanently-suppress Wage Growth. This is why every American construction site, every restaurant, every Hotel/Motel chain, every machine shop, body shop, metal shop, assembly house, weld shop, i.e., every manufacturing business EXCEPT the few remaining Union shops now are harboring "illegal" workers. They come here ONLY because they KNOW they can get a job, easily, despite the fact that they will likely be short-paid, forced to punch out and then back in after 8 hours, and have to work through their lunch and rest breaks.......because their depraved, greedy employer will just replace them immediately if they dare to complain. 

 

Capitalism doesn't function without 35% of the worker class earning the lowest pay, 35% earning the Median income, and 20% making about 1.5x the Median Income.

That is the only way we can provide those millionaire and billionaire annual incomes for CEOs. That is the only was America can sustain the 400 richest families in a Nation of 330 million citizens owning 80% of the country, controlling 90% of the wealth, and manipulating 100% of the financial power, legal authority, governing legislation, and all political power.

  

This is why we see so many folks working 2 and 3 jobs....just to buy groceries. If we returned America back over to when almost EVERY blue collar Job was a Union Job, circa 1946 through about 1979, we'd see the MINIMUM Pay in America be about $30 bucks per hour in the wealthiest States, and $20 per hour in the impoverished Red State South.   

.

 

 good post

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10 hours ago, Fit2Serve said:

If we returned America back over to when almost EVERY blue collar Job was a Union Job, circa 1946 through about 1979, we'd see the MINIMUM Pay in America be about $30 bucks per hour in the wealthiest States, and $20 per hour in the impoverished Red State South.   

 

And something resembling AOC's 70% marginal tax rate.

Smart woman.

Plus she has a great smile.

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10 hours ago, Fit2Serve said:

"illegal" immigrants are just the secondary victims of an economic system that CANNOT function or exist with an inexhaustible supply of lowest-level Slave Wage ditch-diggers. 

The Primary Victims are the American Workers, who have lost all power since Reagan and the RIGHT crushed the Union Movement that created the Middle Class. Once the Middle Class Wage was permanently stagnated back around 1980, and Reagan passed his Amnesty Act and then patently REFUSED to enforce or fund Sections One and Two of his own Legislation (Border Enforcement and Workplace Enforcement).undocumented aliens were courted and hired by virtually EVERY Industry to displace the American Worker and permanently-suppress Wage Growth. This is why every American construction site, every restaurant, every Hotel/Motel chain, every machine shop, body shop, metal shop, assembly house, weld shop, i.e., every manufacturing business EXCEPT the few remaining Union shops now are harboring "illegal" workers. They come here ONLY because they KNOW they can get a job, easily, despite the fact that they will likely be short-paid, forced to punch out and then back in after 8 hours, and have to work through their lunch and rest breaks.......because their depraved, greedy employer will just replace them immediately if they dare to complain. 

 

Capitalism doesn't function without 35% of the worker class earning the lowest pay, 35% earning the Median income, and 20% making about 1.5x the Median Income.

That is the only way we can provide those millionaire and billionaire annual incomes for CEOs. That is the only was America can sustain the 400 richest families in a Nation of 330 million citizens owning 80% of the country, controlling 90% of the wealth, and manipulating 100% of the financial power, legal authority, governing legislation, and all political power.

  

This is why we see so many folks working 2 and 3 jobs....just to buy groceries. If we returned America back over to when almost EVERY blue collar Job was a Union Job, circa 1946 through about 1979, we'd see the MINIMUM Pay in America be about $30 bucks per hour in the wealthiest States, and $20 per hour in the impoverished Red State South.   

 

Grrrr, reagan. Don't get me started.😠

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There really WAS a time in America when ONE moderate-income Wage Earner could pay a mortgage on a modest, 1200 sq ft home, support a spouse and two kids, send both kids to a good college, save 10% of his or her income to supplement that 30 year Pension that 90% of PRIVATE Employers were offering, and still afford to buy and carry insurance for one new, or one "near-new" car and one old back-up clunker, all on that ONE Family income.

I'm not talking about Bank Presidents, CEOs, or Hedge Fund Managers.

I'm talking about Bank Tellers, Grocery Store Shift Managers, Teachers, Auto Mechanics, Machinists, etc.

Of course...no one believes me when I tell them that California once DID actually offer and provide a FREE 4-year College Education at any State University to ALL CA Residents, up until the late 1970's...and that YOUR kid could go to USC or Berkeley or Davis 100% Tuition-FREE, as long as you were a California resident.

 

Dang! Times sure have changed.

Now, anyone mentioning that we should be providing a Free 4-year State College education to all of our kids makes you a "commie." 

Of course.....back when getting a free college education was the norm in the Golden State, from about 1960 through 1978, California's K - 12 Public Schools weren't just the envy of America...they were the envy of the Western Civilized World. The only thing I was still allowed to do as a grade-schooler back in the mid 1960's, even if I was grounded or in trouble, was to bring home as many school library books as I could, each afternoon. I quickly devoured every Kid-Lit Hardy Boys and Beezus and Ramona book, and then moved on to classic 19th and 20th century Sci-Fi ...like Asimov, Campbell, Clarke, Heinlein, etc. After I ran through all those books in my Elementary School library, I got permission to check-out books from the "restricted ADULT" shelves. I exhausted everything I could find from the REAL, gory Grimm's Fairy Tales to classic Slavic folklore, to U.S. History, and then started reading the books you would NEVER see in today's American Elementary school library,....like Marx's "Das Kapital" and The Father of History's  "Heroditus".....as a 6th-Grader.

 

Anyone think you could find even ONE copy of Karl Marx's seminal tome in any American Elementary School, today?

NOT. I doubt you could find a single "controversial" book in any K-6 school, today, because the Nattering Nannies of Nonsensical Know-Nothingism have removed anything that might challenge the young minds of our American youth. Which is exactly why less than 1% of our High School kids can tell you how many House Representatives there are, how many people signed the Declaration of Independence, and how many of those signers were actually foreigners.

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4 hours ago, Fit2Serve said:

There really WAS a time in America when ONE moderate-income Wage Earner could pay a mortgage on a modest, 1200 sq ft home, support a spouse and two kids, send both kids to a good college, save 10% of his or her income to supplement that 30 year Pension that 90% of PRIVATE Employers were offering, and still afford to buy and carry insurance for one new, or one "near-new" car and one old back-up clunker, all on that ONE Family income.

I'm not talking about Bank Presidents, CEOs, or Hedge Fund Managers.

I'm talking about Bank Tellers, Grocery Store Shift Managers, Teachers, Auto Mechanics, Machinists, etc.

Of course...no one believes me when I tell them that California once DID actually offer and provide a FREE 4-year College Education at any State University to ALL CA Residents, up until the late 1970's...and that YOUR kid could go to USC or Berkeley or Davis 100% Tuition-FREE, as long as you were a California resident.

 

Dang! Times sure have changed.

Now, anyone mentioning that we should be providing a Free 4-year State College education to all of our kids makes you a "commie." 

Of course.....back when getting a free college education was the norm in the Golden State, from about 1960 through 1978, California's K - 12 Public Schools weren't just the envy of America...they were the envy of the Western Civilized World. The only thing I was still allowed to do as a grade-schooler back in the mid 1960's, even if I was grounded or in trouble, was to bring home as many school library books as I could, each afternoon. I quickly devoured every Kid-Lit Hardy Boys and Beezus and Ramona book, and then moved on to classic 19th and 20th century Sci-Fi ...like Asimov, Campbell, Clarke, Heinlein, etc. After I ran through all those books in my Elementary School library, I got permission to check-out books from the "restricted ADULT" shelves. I exhausted everything I could find from the REAL, gory Grimm's Fairy Tales to classic Slavic folklore, to U.S. History, and then started reading the books you would NEVER see in today's American Elementary school library,....like Marx's "Das Kapital" and The Father of History's  "Heroditus".....as a 6th-Grader.

 

Anyone think you could find even ONE copy of Karl Marx's seminal tome in any American Elementary School, today?

NOT. I doubt you could find a single "controversial" book in any K-6 school, today, because the Nattering Nannies of Nonsensical Know-Nothingism have removed anything that might challenge the young minds of our American youth. Which is exactly why less than 1% of our High School kids can tell you how many House Representatives there are, how many people signed the Declaration of Independence, and how many of those signers were actually foreigners.

I went to public school in California from 1970 to 1983 and what killed the schools was prop 13. Everything went away school districts had to close schools cut back on sports and other courses that would prepare young people to either join the workforce or go on to college. Of course the next scam that would save the schools a lottery, I would say okay if they kept the funds from ticket sales in that district but they don't so any wealthy district that gets better funded receives the same amount a poor district gets even though more lottery sales happen in poor districts. The only way I was able to get my kids in a good school was to live in a community that is growing and property taxes would be at a higher rate to fund the district.

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15 minutes ago, fourputt said:

I went to public school in California from 1970 to 1983 and what killed the schools was prop 13. Everything went away school districts had to close schools cut back on sports and other courses that would prepare young people to either join the workforce or go on to college. Of course the next scam that would save the schools a lottery, I would say okay if they kept the funds from ticket sales in that district but they don't so any wealthy district that gets better funded receives the same amount a poor district gets even though more lottery sales happen in poor districts. The only way I was able to get my kids in a good school was to live in a community that is growing and property taxes would be at a higher rate to fund the district.

There was still SOME life left in the early 1970's in California High Schools. We were asked to read "The Greening of America" and Orwell's "1984" back in 1970 in our English Class, and in our Mass Media Class, we were allowed (with a Parental Permission Slip) to watch both "Night and Fog", the serious, grim film footage the G.I's took when they first entered the NAZI Concentration Camps, and a rare, not well-known Rock Hudson B-Hollywood Sci-Fi flic called "Seconds" about a rich man signing up with a secret advanced Medical Corporation to have his mind transferred into a younger "donor" body...a film classic which was just remade and retold with some alterations by Ryan Reynolds in "Self/Less"...........

Neither film would be shown in today's American High Schools......not with the graphic gore and partial nudity and controversial subject matter.

 

We have dumbed-down our own kids..........by "protecting" them from the REAL World, and Man's historical dirty deeds. 

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