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laripu

What are crap artists for?

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We've always had 'em. Seems we have more, and more obvious.

 

Conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, physics deniers, flat earth adherents, anti-flouridationists, young earth creationists, science deniers, ancient alien-god theorists, Bilderburg / Mason / Rothschild paranoia enthusiasts, Jews-run-the-world supremacists and incels.

 

What are they doing and why do we have so many now?  Computers, cell phones, tablets, laptops, internet, social media: sure.

 

But is something running that? Do we have more than we ought to?

 

I think we do. I think we've always had lots of really stupid people. They used to have jobs. Now they don't and they have lots of free time, and internet enabled cell phones. And they're encouraged to exaggerate their ability to discriminate between good but difficult ideas and bad but easy scapegoating. Part of the encouragement is the internet echo, but I think part of it is foreign inspired.

 

I have no proof, and this is also a conspiracy theory. Maybe I'm a crap artist. But think: if the Russian spy agency can influence an election via social media, they can influence stupid thinking. Especially anti-science thinking.

 

Why? Because it weakens the west. The NATO alliance, ANZAC, and especially America. Makes us vote against real and important stuff. Makes us discredit experts in favor of nuts Weakening America has always been a priority of Russia, back to USSR days, when samizdat helped bring down the USSR. Now they've found an entry hole, and it's the internet. Payback.

 

I know some crap artists personally. They're always low-ability people, ready to find cabals everywhere, that account for they inability to succeed. They're relatives by marriage of friends.

 

What do you all think? Maybe this is a crazy thought? I need peer review.

 

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2 hours ago, laripu said:

What do you all think? Maybe this is a crazy thought? I need peer review.

 

 

I have been thinking  about this too

 

As I read around the web " it does not seem to be a threat yet " seems to be a common view

 

  I see A lot of loosely organized religion spinning off science in mans horizons with heaps of the above

  

   It seems like something i am called to fight. I don't get that compulsion in myself

 

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maybe a more meaningful outlook might be they serve as examples as to what happens when ?

 

 keeps us honest with ourselves ?

 

 collateral damage is another aspect of it ?

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remember ww2 when russia signed a nonaggression pact with hitler?  then russia attacked tiny finland with a force that was 10 times the size of finland's? then hitler backdoored russia. russia switched sides and joined the allies. when germany surrendered they slipped it to yhe allies and became our enemies.

 

dumb ass trump thinks we can trust them. I think trump was brainwashed by putin at the golden shower fiasco. Also,  trump's views strike me as akin to treason. mueller is  following  the money trail. 

 

trump be gone soon.

 

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38 minutes ago, TDS said:

I think trump was brainwashed by putin at the golden shower fiasco.

 

Also blackmailed.  Now Mein Trumpfk is gagged by fear of disclosure. He has totally capitulated to Putin.

 

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1 hour ago, TDS said:

I think trump was brainwashed by putin at the golden shower fiasco

 

 I think melania was that woman  but working with putin to make Trump the patsy

     the love triangle 

 

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Fake science crap artists in India:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46778879

 

From that BBC article:

"G Nageshwar Rao, vice chancellor of Andhra University, also said a demon king from the Hindu religious epic, Ramayana, had 24 types of aircraft and a network of landing strips in modern day Sri Lanka."

 

The Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, is also propagating some weird stuff. He used the Hindu god Ganesh (pictured with an elephant head) as evidence:

"Mr Modi himself set the tone in 2014 with his outlandish claim that cosmetic surgery was practised in India thousands of years ago."

 

The new face if pseudo science, and a version of it is already here:

_105085007_ganesh_1920.jpg

 

When people believe crap, and disbelieve science, they accept political claims that science should be defunded. (Except, of course research that's militarily relevant. Ask any ayatollah.)

 

The countries that benefit and advance faster than benighted democracies are those that continue to fund science because that have no need to respond to an electorate, i.e. dictatorships.

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7 minutes ago, laripu said:

Fake science crap artists in India:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46778879

 

From that BBC article:

"G Nageshwar Rao, vice chancellor of Andhra University, also said a demon king from the Hindu religious epic, Ramayana, had 24 types of aircraft and a network of landing strips in modern day Sri Lanka."

 

The Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, is also propagating some weird stuff. He used the Hindu god Ganesh (pictured with an elephant head) as evidence:

"Mr Modi himself set the tone in 2014 with his outlandish claim that cosmetic surgery was practised in India thousands of years ago."

 

The new face if pseudo science, and a version of it is already here:

_105085007_ganesh_1920.jpg

 

When people believe crap, and disbelieve science, they accept political claims that science should be defunded. (Except, of course research that's militarily relevant. Ask any ayatollah.)

 

The countries that benefit and advance faster than benighted democracies are those that continue to fund science because that have no need to respond to an electorate, i.e. dictatorships.

 

Ah ha! Trump's legacy!

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On 1/5/2019 at 7:36 PM, laripu said:

Conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, physics deniers, flat earth adherents, anti-flouridationists, young earth creationists, science deniers, ancient alien-god theorists, Bilderburg / Mason / Rothschild paranoia enthusiasts, Jews-run-the-world supremacists and incels.

 

 shock and awe proclamations over and over

 

   the boy who cried wolf,  I am about numb on it 

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Just some musings and speculation:

 

There are nearly endless ways of characterizing mental and physical dissimilarities between groups.  Morning people // evening people ...  those who fit in // those that don't ...  analog people // digital people ...  strong //  weak ...  rich // poor ...  And ad infinitum.

 

One of the more fundamentally important distinctions between people is the difference between: 

A  -  Mystical or magical thinking including faith-based religion.

B  -  Evidence-based reasoning which excludes any aspect of the supernatural.

 

Many people contain aspects of both types of thinking.  And of those, some compartmentalize each type of thinking, sometimes relegating one to less importance.

 

Con artists almost invariably gain more traction with people who's thought pathways are predominantly faith-based and randomly irrational.  Their gullibility leaves them open to whatever appeals to them first.  These are con artists primary targets.

 

Isaac Asimov was of the opinion that all human progress will always be made by a small minority of evidence-oriented conceptual minds;  And that the vast majority of humanity would always wallow in a miasma of religious faiths, conspiracy theories, big lies and small.  Significant numbers of these will always deny the legitimacy of the very sciences which make the technology they take for granted, possible.

 

At the dawn of civilization, there was very little evidence-based thinking.  Everything from smelting copper to the annual harvest was overseen by priests, accompanied by incantations and success or failure was attributed to supernatural intervention.  Institutionalized con-artistry was built into the very fabric of society.

 

Jump to the Renaissance as scientific thinking started to emerge as a significant societal presence.  Between the Renaissance and now, the proportion of evidence oriented minds has increased greatly.  IF higher education is allowed to become more universal, the percentage of rational thinkers will probably increase.

 

As you observe, con artists have always been with us.  Their influence increases during periods of of decline, such as now, and diminishes in time of progress. 

 

On 1/5/2019 at 7:36 PM, laripu said:

Conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, physics deniers, flat earth adherents, anti-flouridationists, young earth creationists, science deniers, ancient alien-god theorists, Bilderburg / Mason / Rothschild paranoia enthusiasts, Jews-run-the-world supremacists and incels.

 

The recent emergence of con-artists of every stripe is a reflection of the times.  Their sudden prominence is symptomatic of a nation suddenly under the rule of ignorance, arrogance and needless greed.  Hopefully, change is not far off.

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41 minutes ago, bludog said:

IF higher education is allowed to become more universal, the percentage of rational thinkers will probably increase.

 

belief theory  source, value,  basic guidelines like that on how to keep it on order and how to keep it real

  things we could keep focus in lower level education as well

 

  strong minds on strong foundations

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, bludog said:

A  -  Mystical or magical thinking including faith-based religion.

B  -  Evidence-based reasoning which excludes any aspect of the supernatural.

There's a third option too, in between the above. People who attach to a given set of (wacko) ideas, but use evidence-based reasoning on everything else.

 

One engineer I knew, now retired, is like that. He could reason well, well enough to write complicated, working software, but still believed some wacko stuff. He also hated Obama and went on a tirade against Mexicans and Muslims (he had a Mexican-origin engineer and a Muslim in his group). He got fired for threatening his group leader, a very soft spoken liberal atheist of Iranian origin.

 

I work with a lot of intelligent people. Some (many) are Baptists, some Catholics, one Muslim, one Sikh with turban, one Hindu, one believing Jew, and a small number of atheists, myself one of those. There are also about five of Vietnamese origin, and I think they're Buddhist, but I'm not sure. They believe a number of different things. The ones that succeed are the ones that communicate well, are personable, and write working software.

 

It's a good company. I haven't seen discrimination, and they insist on respecting individual differences. Diversity training occurs every year.

 

About ten years ago, one said Harry Reid should be hung. I called him on it, and he avoided me for 5 years. I make him talk to me by speaking to him directly. Around 2003, one of them spoke about someone being "Jew-ed down on a piece" in my presence. I let him know I was of Jewish origin and he apologized. A few years later, he asked me why "you people" supported Obama. 😅 I make him talk to me too. 😆

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3 hours ago, laripu said:

There's a third option too, in between the above. People who attach to a given set of (wacko) ideas, but use evidence-based reasoning on everything else.

 

I believe I took that kind of ambivalent mentality into consideration:

8 hours ago, bludog said:

Many people contain aspects of both types of thinking.  And of those, some compartmentalize each type of thinking, sometimes relegating one to less importance.

 

This type is especially troubling, since they often use proven facts in phony attempts to legitimize unreasonable ideas.

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5 hours ago, bludog said:

 

I believe I took that kind of ambivalent mentality into consideration:

 

This type is especially troubling, since they often use proven facts in phony attempts to legitimize unreasonable ideas.

 

Yes, sorry, you did. I missed it, but how? It was right there. ... time for me to get a refresher course in reading.

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My last employer was a devout southern Baptist

 

Given my background in religion He felt at ease and explained to me how cain was marked black and all black men come from cain, and to top that all black men would go to hell regardless of what good works they could perform on the earth 

 

 in his eyes there is no reason for a black person to ever go to church

 

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used to be the pop up, but now it's the adds on the internet after reading a story, the advertisement art, the crap art, designed to capture your imagination, or at least just a hit on a site with more advertisement.

 

I live right across the bridge from Palo Alto - you know, where Steve Jobs lived. When my kids were young we used to walk the main street nearby an old 1950's toy store - possibly where the idea of toy store the movie came from there, but it could be any, back in the day... any way we walked by this store front that had absolutely no name of the company on the front. Inside where you could see from the street were all these young people sitting at computer desks, this was 2002 or there about. Any way, I was curious so I walked in and asked, "hey, what do you folks do". A very collegial young man came up to me and said, we create ideas that will make people want to view topics, for the purpose of what we call a hit, we can count how many come to the picture or story, each of which holds different advertisement, and then we drive them through a slow barrage of more and more pages, each with more adds. "It's a big way to attract 

advertisement", he proudly said. "So who do you work for", I asked. "We work for anybody who has a site that someone goes to for information, that's how they make their money, through advertisement", he said.

 

But then, you have the Info Wars dude, you have all kinds of bullBad word artists, like Larapu laments. They did it with radio, then they did it with television, and then they saturated the internet.

They prey on peoples curiosity, their emotions, their shallow view perhaps of society, or possibly, like when your driving a long distance and only the AM radio stations come in, that's all there is to listen to - and at first it's a curiosity, but after a few hundred miles you just might feel like throwing up. But that's why they got CD's and books on tape, and podcasts - yipee...

Peace!

 

 


 

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