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TheOldBarn

I think now is a time for people to realize

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The genies are all out of their boxes concerning technology. 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612458/exclusive-chinese-scientists-are-creating-crispr-babies/

 

We don't want to start a new nuclear weapon proliferation, do we?

 

What about robots taking away home cleaning jobs?

 

Where in the world is BREXIT: Trade imbalances hurt people around the world, not just in the good old US.

 

Chomsky calls for a Libertarian Socialist movement,

 

BTW, it's true, I don't know much. 

 

When you think it's vitally important to uphold intellectual property rights, just who do you mean to be protecting might be a good question for starters

 

considering...

 

Merry Xmas to you / everybody, and to the Liberal Forum

 

 

Peace!

 

 

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Genetic engineering has some moral issues people may not have thought about. I posed this question to my father in the early 1980s:

 

Suppose that by genetic engineering they could create a race of harmless chimps that liked to live in human families and were just smart enough to be like a 4 year old, and communicate a bit. Suppose they were happy sleeping on a little doggie bed in a warm place on the floor, used the bathroom correctly, ate cheap food, but really liked cleaning 12 hours a day ... and were genetically engineered to like it and be good at it. Somewhere between a family pet and a servant, mostly servant.

 

My father made a disgusted face and said "I don't hold with slavery". End of discussion, emphatically.

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10 minutes ago, laripu said:

Genetic engineering has some moral issues people may not have thought about. I posed this question to my father in the early 1980s:

 

Suppose that by genetic engineering they could create a race of harmless chimps that liked to live in human families and were just smart enough to be like a 4 year old, and communicate a bit. Suppose they were happy sleeping on a little doggie bed in a warm place on the floor, used the bathroom correctly, ate cheap food, but really liked cleaning 12 hours a day ... and were genetically engineered to like it and be good at it. Somewhere between a family pet and a servant, mostly servant.

 

My father made a disgusted face and said "I don't hold with slavery". End of discussion, emphatically.

 

I just read an awesome novel about "nanomachines" being injected into people to alter their life and minds.

 

It's called "By the light of the moon" by my favorite writer, Dean Koontz.

 

I am sure you would enjoy it. 

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what about all the GMO animals raised on factory farms to satisfy the blood lust of non vegetarians. Those animals sleep on concrete floors and never see the sun it's evil. If these were dogs cats or horse we'd be up in arms. Pigs can recognize themselves in a mirror and will defend their young to the death. 

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3 hours ago, laripu said:

Genetic engineering has some moral issues people may not have thought about. I posed this question to my father in the early 1980s:

 

Suppose that by genetic engineering they could create a race of harmless chimps that liked to live in human families and were just smart enough to be like a 4 year old, and communicate a bit. Suppose they were happy sleeping on a little doggie bed in a warm place on the floor, used the bathroom correctly, ate cheap food, but really liked cleaning 12 hours a day ... and were genetically engineered to like it and be good at it. Somewhere between a family pet and a servant, mostly servant.

 

My father made a disgusted face and said "I don't hold with slavery". End of discussion, emphatically.

 

Interesting subject.

 

The results of breeding, over many generations are the same as genetic engineering.  Like starting with a wolf and eventually, getting a chihuahua.  Chihuahuas are household pets serving as lap-warmers and all-around love-objects for their owners ...  And, unlike wolves, they like it.  Genetically bred horses, oxen and mules serve a beasts of burden.  Cows have been bred to give milk and chickens, eggs.

 

So genetically engineered house-servant chimps would not be much different.  But ethical objections could arise because of   1 - Chimp intelligence and   2 - Their physical similarity to humans.  However, in this scenario, their intelligence doesn't keep them from enjoying their work.  And appearance is cosmetic.  So we're left with the question:  Is it wrong to alter animals to enjoy servitude?

 

Human slaves are a different story.  Most slaves, throughout history, resented their fate.  But what if people could be genetically engineered to enjoy their own slavery?  Eugenics is a subject, fraught with ethical pitfalls.  Until recently, the only way to achieve eugenic goals would have been by selective breeding.  But now, genetic engineering might soon be able to achieve the same result.    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612458/exclusive-chinese-scientists-are-creating-crispr-babies/

 

But either breeding or eugenics, for traits not desired by the victims, requires either slaves, or deceiving the victims as to what is actually happening.  Eugenics by breeding was practiced in Nazi Germany, but did not last long enough to achieve significant results.  Genetic engineering is MUCH quicker.

 

Enter the wrong dictator, somewhere in the world, and match that with genetic tailoring technology, and the question becomes "when", not "if".

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29 minutes ago, Gregory said:

what about all the GMO animals raised on factory farms to satisfy the blood lust of non vegetarians. Those animals sleep on concrete floors and never see the sun it's evil. If these were dogs cats or horse we'd be up in arms. Pigs can recognize themselves in a mirror and will defend their young to the death. 

 

Exactly.  That's why I'm a vegetarian.

 

Which brings to mind other incipient biological breakthroughs:  Cellular steak, grown in a lab. 

 

Eventually, the taste will be indistinguishable from the real thing.  Meat will be grown in vats, and the price will fall below meat from live animals.  These different kinds of meats, will be tailored for health benefits, without loss of flavor.

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1 hour ago, bludog said:

 

Exactly.  That's why I'm a vegetarian.

 

Which brings to mind other incipient biological breakthroughs:  Cellular steak, grown in a lab. 

 

 

Eventually, the taste will be indistinguishable from the real thing.  Meat will be grown in vats, and the price will fall below meat from live animals.  These different kinds of meats, will be tailored for health benefits, without loss of flavor.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't trust those guys. The bottom line means more to them than the people.

 

I mean look what they did to tomatoes.

 

I have never eaten a chicken McNugget nor will I ever eat one.

 

Remember Ribs McDonald? Eww!

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I remember a story I read in a cartoon book once about being a vegie.

 

Kid tells his mom he going to run away and live in the woods and hunt. She tells him you would starve to death because you're a vegetarian and you love animals too much to kill them. The kid tells his mom, "I'll teach them to commit suicide  then".

 

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2 hours ago, TDS said:

The kid tells his mom, "I'll teach them to commit suicide  then".

 

Kid had the cheek to back-talk his mom.  Had a big mouth.  Probably became a two-bit politico.😬

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4 hours ago, bludog said:

However, in this scenario, their intelligence doesn't keep them from enjoying their work.  And appearance is cosmetic.  So we're left with the question:  Is it wrong to alter animals to enjoy servitude?

 

If the slaves sing while they slave, that doesn't make them less enslaved. Indeed appearence is cosmetic; if they have the intelligence of a 4 year of human, they deserve some rights. Finally, we need more compassion in the world not less ... having such creatures completely dependent on humans would guarantee abuse, rape and cruelty of all varieties.

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3 hours ago, laripu said:

If the slaves sing while they slave, that doesn't make them less enslaved. Indeed appearence is cosmetic; if they have the intelligence of a 4 year of human, they deserve some rights. Finally, we need more compassion in the world not less ... having such creatures completely dependent on humans would guarantee abuse, rape and cruelty of all varieties.

 

I agree.  That's why I went vegetarian years ago.  But animal exploitation and consumption is still the way-of-the-world, even in the most advanced countries.

 

Some studies have found pigs to be as intelligent as chimps.  Yet they are raised, mostly in abhorrent conditions and condemned to death, by default.  Anyone who works or volunteers in an animal rescue facility can testify to the cruelty that is inflicted on dogs and cats, on a regular basis.  And in large parts of East Asia, dogs are raised for food under appalling conditions.

 

My wife does volunteer work at an animal rescue organization, mostly dogs and cats.  She hates hunters.  Yet she eats meat with gusto.

 

 

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1 hour ago, bludog said:

 

Kid had the cheek to back-talk his mom.  Had a big mouth.  Probably became a two-bit politico.😬

Yep. There's a good cure for that.

 

mom GIF

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19 hours ago, bludog said:

Eventually, the taste will be indistinguishable from the real thing.  Meat will be grown in vats, and the price will fall below meat from live animals.  These different kinds of meats, will be tailored for health benefits, without loss of flavor.

 

When this happens, I'll eat it.

 

I imagine it will be textured in various ways so that you could have "fauxlet mignon" or "shamburger" and how about "sirlyin' steak" ?

 

In fact, since it's technical anyway, you could grow it in shapes and textures and colors that natural meat doesn't take on.  For kiddies that like to play with their food: kabob-bleheads. For hockey fans at the arena restaurant: puck steak sporting the team logo. For Donald Trump: prison food... American cheese slice on Wonder bread.

 

Sorry, the jokes only go so far. ☺️

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15 hours ago, bludog said:

 

I agree.  That's why I went vegetarian years ago. 

My wife does volunteer work at an animal rescue organization, mostly dogs and cats.  She hates hunters. 

Yet she eats meat with gusto.

 

 

That sounds pretty contradictive.

 

Isn't she even a bit uneasy about that?

Maybe she shoud search on Google what the animals, whose meat she enjoys, go through before shaughter ...

 

By the way, I'm a vegetarian too.

Been for decades.

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2 hours ago, laripu said:

I imagine it will be textured in various ways so that you could have "fauxlet mignon" or "shamburger" and how about "sirlyin' steak" ?

 

In fact, since it's technical anyway, you could grow it in shapes and textures and colors that natural meat doesn't take on.  For kiddies that like to play with their food: kabob-bleheads. For hockey fans at the arena restaurant: puck steak sporting the team logo. For Donald Trump: prison food... American cheese slice on Wonder bread.

 

Good jokes but they could also be predictive.  Sweets started as fruits, honey and sugar cane.  Now, many cookies, cakes and candies are embellished with all kinds of patterns and bright colors.  Meat, freed from its livestock origins and suddenly amenable to decoration, could undergo a similar transformation.

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34 minutes ago, JinnMartini said:

Isn't she even a bit uneasy about that?

 

If she is, she hides it very well.

 

35 minutes ago, JinnMartini said:

Maybe she shoud search on Google what the animals, whose meat she enjoys, go through before shaughter ...

 

Good advice.  Try telling her that yourself.:)   I gave up long ago.

 

36 minutes ago, JinnMartini said:

By the way, I'm a vegetarian too.

Been for decades.

 

Its the responsible thing to do, from humane and environmental perspectives.  Vegan is even better, but in my case, starting in my late 30s, I didn't go the whole route.  I still eat dairy and I allow myself responsibly wild caught sardines and salmon.  But I don't eat meat from mammals or birds.  Maybe that doesn't qualify me as a full vegetarian, but right or wrong, I consider small fish less sentient than most mammals or birds.  I do not eat farmed fish.

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32 minutes ago, JinnMartini said:

Yep.

That's you alright, the hallucinating, obsessed, fanatic, brainwashed "Trump is a joke" !

 

Well, you'll probably get a heart attack in 2020 when Mr, Trump is re-elected.

Probably good too, for society at large.

 

ROFLMAO

 

JinnMartini:--  It's been nice chatting with you, in a non-political vein, but I must inform you that Conservatives are not allowed to post in the Liberal's Only Room.  Failure to heed this warning will result in a nice little vacation, just as you are getting started.  You are welcome to post anywhere on this site other than LO.

 

Rules for LO


×

Welcome to Liberals only forum

No conservatives allowed
Post respectfully, personal attacks will not be tolerated
No more than five new threads a day
No trash talking about members and their kids
No porn, or links to porn
No gore pictures
No cursing  in thread titles
No, 'outing' of members or their families; names, addresses, phone numbers, SSNs, etc.
No linking to other political forums
No solicitations

 

 

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1 minute ago, bludog said:

 

JinnMartini:--  It's been nice chatting with you, in a non-political vein, but I must inform you that Conservatives are not allowed to post in the Liberal's Only Room.  Failure to heed this warning will result in a nice little vacation, just as you are getting started.  You are welcome to post anywhere on this site other than LO.

 

Rules for LO


×

Welcome to Liberals only forum

No conservatives allowed
Post respectfully, personal attacks will not be tolerated
No more than five new threads a day
No trash talking about members and their kids
No porn, or links to porn
No gore pictures
No cursing  in thread titles
No, 'outing' of members or their families; names, addresses, phone numbers, SSNs, etc.
No linking to other political forums
No solicitations

 

 

 

I do not consider myself a "conservative".

 

So I'd appreciate you to point out to me:

 

A - why you deem me a conservative

and

B - what rules did I break.

(Unless you view telling someone that he's brainwashed and hallucinating as a "personal attack".)

 

Thanks.

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13 minutes ago, JinnMartini said:

I do not consider myself a "conservative".

 

Quote

Fck you libtard.

 

Trump = best POTUS ever.

 

This is your last warning.  Do not make any more posts in LO unless you want a suspension.

 

 

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On 12/22/2018 at 10:26 PM, TheOldBarn said:

Merry Xmas to you / everybody, and to the Liberal Forum

Thanks for the Waits video, blast from the past!

Here's a more recent Waits video.

 

"Bella ciao" ("Goodbye beautiful")  was an anti-fascist anthem used by the Italian partisans in their struggle against Mussolini and his Nazi German allies between 1943 and 1945.

 

 

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3 hours ago, bludog said:

This is your last warning.  Do not make any more posts in LO unless you want a suspension.

 

Well, JinnMartini might actually not be a conservative. He might be a white supremacist. Of course, that would be worse.

 

Nowadays, a conservative like George H.W. Bush seems like something good compared to the followers of Trump.

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2 hours ago, laripu said:

Nowadays, a conservative like George H.W. Bush seems like something good compared to the followers of Trump.

 

We have slid down a long, dark tunnel into a realm where the reptile brain is dominant.  And the forces of corruption, rudeness, barbarism and hate have taken power.   Much of Conservatism has moved ultra-right.   And with some notable exceptions, the Democratic Party has succumbed to corruption.    It will take more than 4 or even 8 years of Democratic resurgence for the Nation to recover.  There are no guarantees.

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On 12/22/2018 at 8:26 PM, TheOldBarn said:

When you think it's vitally important to uphold intellectual property rights, just who do you mean to be protecting might be a good question for starters

 

I would think my right to privacy would weigh in more. aside from Ruling out who killed who, how else this tool gets used is a great question 

 

Right now its in the Dark mostly Illegal due to laws, and that is the worst place for it to be

 

on a side note New gene technology was developed to treat aids and other like diseases, to think it would just sit there and wait because a pen fell on a peace of paper. I am not to spirised to see it exploited in the area of HIV

 

 https://www.statnews.com/2018/02/13/gene-therapy-aids/

 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-in-general/treatment/gene-therapy

 

 

My fit 33 year old gay brother sat down one after none and went to sleep for ever> I will never know why because he was HIV positive and no one would do a autopsy on him. Clearly things today are better, so I do not look past how humans can inflict suffering where they go 

 

But us alive and well is what makes it possible for us to care about everything spoken to in this thread

 

 Big pharma would agree with you . No more meat !

 

  and kinda hard to treat something you never had ?

 

 

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