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Gregory

To impeach or not that is the question

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I believe it serves the cause of Dems better to keep Trump in the White House. IMO he would lose in a landslide as a bonus his fragile ego would be crushed. Pence is a truly evil gnome who promised he would see Roe vs Wade overturned in his life time. Again IMO watching tRump being dragged from the WH red faced screaming it was rigged would be great.  DtRymJ-UwAAetfJ.jpg

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Trump is the worst president ever.  And the worst person ever to be president.  Despite Trump's popularity with his core supporters, a sizeable majority of the electorate correctly see Trump as a criminal laughing-stock who is doing enormous damage to our nation.   Trump also detracts from the effectiveness of politicians in his own party and there's not much they can do about it.

 

These factors are giving Democrats a large political boost which will probably increase in the second half of Trump's term.  So there are mixed reasons for Democrats to want Trump to stay or go.  Another consideration is that if Trump was impeached Mike Pence would probably continue all the abuses of his predecessor, more effectively.  And in a more dignified way.

 

In the end, IMO, we must impeach and convict, if possible.  Trump is mentally unstable, unpredictable and incompetent.  He has said many times that he loves war and has been documented insistently asking an advisor why we can't use nuclear weapons.  Trump may easily be saving war, possibly nuclear, as his ace-in-the-hole.  We cannot risk allowing the worst to happen for political advantage.

 

Although a  president Pence might continue most of Trump's destructive policies, impeachment would highlight those policies as wrong.  It would be misguided for the Democratic Party to cynically allow Trump to continue his destructive policies with the rationalization that we could clean them up, when we got into power.  If impeachment proves possible and we fail to do it, we will have not served justice.  The nation and the world are watching.

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19 hours ago, Gregory said:

I believe it serves the cause of Dems better to keep Trump in the White House. IMO he would lose in a landslide as a bonus his fragile ego would be crushed. Pence is a truly evil gnome who promised he would see Roe vs Wade overturned in his life time. Again IMO watching tRump being dragged from the WH red faced screaming it was rigged would be great.  DtRymJ-UwAAetfJ.jpg

 

Do you believe that Trump committed high crimes, misdemeanors, or treason?

If he fires Mueller, would you favor starting impeachment investigations in the House?

If not, what would Trump have to do to start impeachment in the House?

 

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One problem with a trump is that the wrongs are so constant, that it's difficult to identify one or a few specific things to impeach for. People get used to the wrongs and picking any one to say 'impeach for this' seems almost arbitrary, even if justified. So it just sort of continues.

That's why the Mueller investigation is important for the cause: because it so broadly addresses the presidency, years long, and has one key act when it releases the final information about the results, that makes it a great point for saying impeach now.

 

It's also such a major activity that even while impeaching seems justified before Mueller, there's a sense of it being premature without the investigation results. Making it feel almost like an incomplete case and a part 2 will be needed - or even that the Mueller investigation might not get completed if trump left office first.

 

If an impeachment were done earlier that did not remove trump, are they going to re-impeach him when the report is done? That's politically awkward. So there's pressure to 'just wait for the report', though justice seems to demand acting when there's enough, not waiting for the report for even more.

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One of the things that bothered me regarding Darrell Isis and the Republican congressional investigations was the cattiness in their feigned outrage regarding the IRS scandal, whereby it was said the IRS was politically motivated in targeting conservative groups seeking tax exempt status... This was played out as big news on Fox, and it incensed a lot of people on the right who were misguided by Freaking rich bastards selling cow pie, truly, that was what it was all about in the end. 

 

So it was okay that Bush II along with Cheney spent trillions trying to take over Iraq and then completely screwing up the entire affair because, A - the US military is not equipped to run a foreign country on their own, and B - they only created a heaven for more terrorists to create more terror on innocent people, in a place where they knew nothing about the social structure or the difference between the Sunni and the Shia Muslims who lived there then, and must live there now, still... 

 

There was not much time spent by the Congress investigating this fiasco, however there was quite a lot of time  spent investigating the Benghazi nightmare when a good man, Ambassador Chris Stevens was killed.

It was mishandled by the State Department and the Obama Administration, but this would not necessary take anyone too long to figure out. It was a sore lesson that required changes be made, yet, somehow that was not the end game for the Republicans. 

 

Right and Wrong. First and foremost, in any investigation, it should not be political. 

 

So we let the Mueller investigation take its course, if we can. And then, let the Congress act accordingly. 

 

Peace!

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On 12/1/2018 at 9:52 AM, ExPDXer said:

 

Do you believe that Trump committed high crimes, misdemeanors, or treason?

If he fires Mueller, would you favor starting impeachment investigations in the House?

If not, what would Trump have to do to start impeachment in the House?

 

If the house can find over whelming evidence so the Republicans will be forced to go along with impeachment, as was the case with Nixon, yes.

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Griz  -  Notice your post is gone.  Please don't post in the Liberals's Only Room anymore or you will get a nice vacation just as your getting started.  I suggest you post in the No Holds Barred sub-forum where you are welcome.

 

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On 11/30/2018 at 1:38 PM, Gregory said:

I believe it serves the cause of Dems better to keep Trump in the White House. IMO he would lose in a landslide as a bonus his fragile ego would be crushed. Pence is a truly evil gnome who promised he would see Roe vs Wade overturned in his life time. Again IMO watching tRump being dragged from the WH red faced screaming it was rigged would be great.  DtRymJ-UwAAetfJ.jpg

 

 

Impeachment would be bad for the country. If the evidence is not compelling or the wrongdoing is minor it might even backfire on the Democrats the way the Clinton impeachment trial backfired on the Republicans.

 

My opinion would change if Mueller were to present evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors sufficient to convince Senate Republicans that Trump should be removed from office. If he is compromised by Putin, that might be enough. 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, grizzman1 said:

There has to be proof of a crime to impeach!

Proof, Absolutely NONE!

 

Robert Mueller will be providing plenty of proof.  You're in the Liberals Only area and you're clearly not the least bit liberal.  Can you read?

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7 hours ago, grizzman1 said:

I didn't create any of the violence you Socialistic Liberal Pinko Commies have against President Obama!

Pull up your BIG GIRL/BOY diapers, move out of mommies basement at 40+ years old, get a job, pay your 'Fair Share' of taxes, then come back and tell me how much you love paying for so many things your against, but are FORCED to because of taxes!

Get a life!

Grow up to pull up diapers!

 

After ignoring warnings, grizzman1 is suspended.

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On 11/30/2018 at 10:21 PM, bludog said:

We cannot risk allowing the worst to happen for political advantage.

 

On 11/30/2018 at 10:21 PM, bludog said:

If impeachment proves possible and we fail to do it, we will have not served justice.

 

Exactly.  Well said.  Impeachment isn't something to be considered lightly, but when the evidence is there, you can't look past it.  

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On 11/30/2018 at 2:38 PM, Gregory said:

I believe it serves the cause of Dems better to keep Trump in the White House. IMO he would lose in a landslide as a bonus his fragile ego would be crushed. Pence is a truly evil gnome who promised he would see Roe vs Wade overturned in his life time. Again IMO watching tRump being dragged from the WH red faced screaming it was rigged would be great.  DtRymJ-UwAAetfJ.jpg

 

I say "no" and you are "correct" Mike Pence is the "True" Beliver...

 

Better to have a Complete "MORON" than Mike Pence

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8 hours ago, ExPDXer said:

 

9 impeachable offenses so far. yes the bar is high but Trump has destroyed most of his defense with his own big mouth.

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The answer to the question of the post is: yes, impeach.

 

Here's why.

 

Everything Donald Trump does makes sense, if you see the overriding goal. The goal is, to reduce US power, influence, and wealth everywhere in the world.

 

He isn't the author of this goal. The motivating force is the Russian secret service. He has been compromised, which may eventually be shown if the method of data collection isn't classified. In the non-technical sense, Trump is a traitor. Maybe even in the technical sense, if smart lawyers can figure out how to cast the facts.

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10 hours ago, laripu said:

The answer to the question of the post is: yes, impeach.

 

Here's why.

 

Everything Donald Trump does makes sense, if you see the overriding goal. The goal is, to reduce US power, influence, and wealth everywhere in the world.

 

He isn't the author of this goal. The motivating force is the Russian secret service. He has been compromised, which may eventually be shown if the method of data collection isn't classified. In the non-technical sense, Trump is a traitor. Maybe even in the technical sense, if smart lawyers can figure out how to cast the facts.

The problem here is the Republican party. They either like what he is doing or they turn their heads so they can get some of the things they have dreamed about for a long time such as

conservative courts, tax cuts for the rich and a steep corporate tax cut, a reversal in environmental protections, and yes, when the cows come home and they lose power, they can once again crow about the ever growing Federal Debt so that they can finally reduce SS, and medicare coverage. 

 

All this being said, Trump is a nitwit and a crook. He's their nitwit and crook, and they own his policies and his crookedness. And yet, it is entirely plausible once the truth comes out that there will be no way not to impeach him. It will be an absolute requirement.

 

Peace!

 

 

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On 12/29/2018 at 8:18 PM, TheOldBarn said:

 

 

On 12/29/2018 at 8:18 PM, TheOldBarn said:

All this being said, Trump is a nitwit and a crook. He's their nitwit and crook, and they own his policies and his crookedness. And yet, it is entirely plausible once the truth comes out that there will be no way not to impeach him. It will be an absolute requirement.

 

Yup. Yup, yup, yup, and yup.

☺️🖖💙

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Obviously the answer will be more easy once Mueller finishes, I fully expect the morons in NHB to disagree to the bitter end and claim corruption in the investigation so anyone expecting those imbeciles to concede Trump was guilty may be waiting a while. I think the evidence will be very strong, complete, and undeniable for any reasonable person. Trump is a delusional weak minded fool and his house of cards is going up in flames. YES IMPEACH THE MOTHER F'er.

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Ironically, trump is so bad that he'snot being impeached because they want to wait for even more crimes to be provable.

 

It's like the cops saying 'we have him on bank robberies, but wait to arrest him because we're still investigating his drug dealing'.

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As I've said before on this forum, the only way to make sense of what Trump does is that the motivation is to reduce American power, wealth and influence in the world. The only reason for that is that he's being run by the Russian mafia/government.

 

The combination of getting out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership,  then f**king with NAFTA, then stupid tariffs, then moron wall, and then shutting down the government may even cause a US recession. Or depression.

 

Just shutting down the government means that the people that defend us against cyber-crime and cyber-espionage are not doing their jobs at the level they should be... maybe not at all. So the shut down will lose us billions in stolen intellectual property; and it will compromise our 21st century security while not fixing mid-20th century problems.

 

High crimes and misdemeanors doesn't begin to cover it.

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1 hour ago, laripu said:

Just shutting down the government means that the people that defend us against cyber-crime and cyber-espionage are not doing their jobs at the level they should be... maybe not at all. So the shut down will lose us billions in stolen intellectual property; and it will compromise our 21st century security while not fixing mid-20th century problems

 

This is a particularly damaging aspect of the shutdown.  No doubt our international rivals are taking advantage of the situation to extract all the information they can get, before the shutdown ends..

 

1 hour ago, laripu said:

High crimes and misdemeanors doesn't begin to cover it.

 

The irresponsibility is off the charts.  The US is being sabotaged by its own president.  Except for some noises by a few Republicans like Lindsay Graham, most don't seem to care.

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