Jump to content
peter45

Do you believe in doctors?

Recommended Posts

Not trying to get into a political discussion about health insurance,

but I honestly believe that good health insurance JUST MIGHT lead to too much medical care.

 

I have mixed feelings about the health care of my friends and relatives who have passed on.

 

Of four that had heart issues,

one had very good preventative care, and died of a sudden attack

two died as a result of preventive surgery

one survived the surgery, but died a couple years later from the cancer that he had for six years before the surgery

         had he been given the choice, I believe he would have preferred a sudden heart attack to the prolonged cancer ordeal

 

another who had cancer was sent home with less than three months to live, so there was no chemo given

         a year later, she actually did die

 

another with cancer had an experimental procedure done

        she was declared to have had a "miraculous" cure

        she was gone in three months

 

I think that most doctors think they are doing their best.

And that they order all the tests and procedures that they think are necessary, and that the insurance will pay for.

 

But I just don't feel an overwhelming urge to go to the doctor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking for myself, I do believe in doctors. if I didn't I wouldn't be posting here today. After one liver transplant, one heart attack, 12 stents, surviving two forms of cancer, I wouldn't be here without some very good doctors and insurance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife had aggressive HER-2 positive breast cancer discovered (early) and treated in 2000.

 

We spent quite some time looking for a very good surgeon, and for brilliant oncologists at the Moffitt Cancer Center here in Tampa. We asked multiple doctors for their opinions on both these specialists. We opted for treatment to maximize the probability of long lifespan: bilateral mastectomy and chemo.

 

It's 18 years later, and we both believe that saved her life.

 

A friend of hers, at around that time, had the same type of cancer, but was initially misdiagnosed, and was treated for estrogen-positive cancer. By the time they found out what it really was, it had spread, and she died in 2003, in agony, attached to a morphine pump.

 

The lessons are these:

1. With medicine, just like with any other activity, from astronomy to basketball to carpentry to zoology ... talent and ability are distributed according to the normal curve. See below.

2. For surgeons, for example, a small number will be terrible butchers, and an equally small number will be deft and brilliant, but most will be in the middle.

3. A smart consumer learns enough of the subject matter to ask smart questions, and gets the opinions of people in the know.

4. Caveat emptor, if you go in blindly.

5. What you're looking for is a practitioner who is at least 2 standard deviations better than average: in the top 2%. For that, you probably need to be in a big city, over a million people.

6. For people who have less than $500 million, not having good health insurance is stupid.

7. Having health insurance isn't enough. You can still get screwed. You still have to think, even to determine what constitutes good health insurance. 

 

standard-normal-distribution.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two last thoughts on this:

 

No-one lives forever.

 

My father used to say: "It's a good thing that no-one lives forever. If you could avoid dying, the rich would pay the poor to die for them. And that's no way to make a living."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/11/2018 at 5:38 PM, peter45 said:

I honestly believe that good health insurance JUST MIGHT lead to too much medical care.

 

I have mixed feelings about the health care of my friends and relatives who have passed on.

 

Your friends and relatives did the only thing they could do.  At the present state-of-the-art, most medical care is a gamble.  The more serious and the more advanced the condition, the worse the odds.  Sadly, your friends and relatives, for whatever reasons, appear to have experienced worse outcomes than usual.

 

On 7/11/2018 at 5:38 PM, peter45 said:

But I just don't feel an overwhelming urge to go to the doctor.

 

Congratulations.  I hope you continue in good health with no pressing need for relief.   But if you found yourself in severe pain, the urge to see a doctor would probably become overwhelming.  The unfortunate medical outcomes of your friends and relatives notwithstanding;  where else would you go?

 

It's also important to get checked out by a doctor regularly to catch problems early, when the odds of cure are highest:

The benefits of regular check-ups include:

  • Reduce your risk of getting sick
  • Detect potentially life-threatening health conditions or diseases early
  • Increase chances for treatment and cure
  • Limit risk of complications by closely monitoring existing conditions
  • Increase lifespan and improve health
  • Reduce healthcare costs over time by avoiding costly medical services
  • Form a good partnership with the doctor so treatment can be more efficient
  • Get updated on new medical information or technologies that are available
  • https://mypvhc.com/importance-regular-check-ups/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't "believe."  I simply know or I don't "believe."  I examine beliefs through scientific inquiry and hypothesis as best as I can.  Remember, science is the highest form of philosophy that we know at this point.  Use it to the best of your ability. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An alternate belief:

 

Doctors are soldiers in the front line of the war against America by the deep state. They're only there to take your money and give you sedative drugs, so you don't realize that your freedom is being taken by degrees.

 

Science is for chumps. Every medication you take brings you that much closer to being a happy slave.

 

My advice:

 

If you believe the above, then never see a doctor again. When something hurts, just remember that it will make you stronger. Don't believe anything they tell you. Cigarettes are good for you. So are fats and sugars. Vegetables are fodder for beasts, except ketchup. You can get all the vitamins a body needs from Coke.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, laripu said:

An alternate belief:

 

Doctors are soldiers in the front line of the war against America by the deep state. They're only there to take your money and give you sedative drugs, so you don't realize that your freedom is being taken by degrees.

 

Science is for chumps. Every medication you take brings you that much closer to being a happy slave.

 

My advice:

 

If you believe the above, then never see a doctor again. When something hurts, just remember that it will make you stronger. Don't believe anything they tell you. Cigarettes are good for you. So are fats and sugars. Vegetables are fodder for beasts, except ketchup. You can get all the vitamins a body needs from Coke.

 

Finally;  The revealed truth !  Dr. Doogie Howser couldn't have said it better.  An electrifying moment of epiphany by the great Laripu.  You have a convert in me.

Dr. Phil:---  Take notice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/27/2018 at 11:47 PM, bludog said:

Finally;  The revealed truth !  Dr. Doogie Howser couldn't have said it better.  An electrifying moment of epiphany by the great Laripu.  You have a convert in me.

 

Then please join me this weekend at the Church of the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Laripu, located at the corner of Nullepart Road and Nirgends Boulevard, in East Cricetina, New Hamster.

 

There, the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Laripu will be on display, bleeding all over the sacred linoleum.

 

This weekend the sermon deals with the danger of vaccinations: One-year-olds should not be vaccinated. They can protect themselves better with miniature handguns.

 

Cigarettes will be distributed in the Friendship Room. "Take a smoke, leave some cash in the poke."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JinnMartini said:

I, for one, DON'T !

 

They're all quacks, financially hooked to pharmaceutical companies.

 

Right! No drugs or doctors for you!

 

And when you're in an intimate relationship, don't forget to let your significant other in on this important information.

 

Good luck! Break a leg!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, laripu said:

Right! No drugs or doctors for you!

 

And when you're in an intimate relationship, don't forget to let your significant other in on this important information.

 

Good luck! Break a leg!

 

what I thought about doctors < all the days i spent with my wife after they saved her life

 

 but I am not lost on expecting this group to be a expert  on addictive drugs  or any drug as it turned 1/3 of America into part time heroin addicts

 

 FDA earned a " your fired " on that front too. I keep the FDA I just lose the tools that allowed that to happen

 

/shrug health care pays for the recovery  that the FDA  creates  and on not just Additive drugs

 they have a sizable effect on the cost that insurance can not control and only pay for 

 

  I think most of agree there should be no profit in healthcare but how many of us think about the FDA's  role in healthcare  ? feels like issuance has stolen the spot light  at times to me 

I wont be detoured from trying making sure we all get it, or driving down the costs till we can 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, rrober49 said:

 I think most of agree there should be no profit in healthcare

 

There needs to be profit in healthcare. The profit made should support continuing advances, and is also there to encourage people to enter the field. No company will take the risks associated with developing and testing a new drug that might end up unusable, for no profit - they'd go under. No one will ever study difficult topics for 8 to 12 years (degree, residency, specialization) to make only $100,000.

 

What needs to stop is unreasonable profit. When drugs that have sold for $X at a profit suddenly jump to $4X or $1000X, something is going on that exploits human misery.

 

Medical lawsuits cause doctor's insurance to be high, and must be paid quarterly. Depending on the specialty, anywhere from $4,000 to $35,000 per year. (California is the highest state. Emergency room medicine the riskiest.)

 

Would you accept $100,000 per year for a job in which you had to be perfect all the time, or get sued for millions. Maybe one day you were a bit sleepy, and missed a tiny detail that caused someone the use of their legs. I wouldn't.

 

Canada has universal healthcare, but the chances of winning a malpractice lawsuit there are slim according to Toronto's Globe and Mail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, laripu said:

There needs to be profit in healthcare. The profit made should support continuing advances, and is also there to encourage people to enter the field. No company will take the risks associated with developing and testing a new drug that might end up unusable, for no profit - they'd go under. No one will ever study difficult topics for 8 to 12 years (degree, residency, specialization) to make only $100,000.

 

 when you make so much profit off opioides that makes the lawsuits worth it ?

 

health care , insurance , science

 

again I stress heath care does not need profits. I am not likely to come to idea I want to be a doctor because a CPA can make about the same

 

   you know ? at that the hospital they offered me a low interest rate loan to pay for my wife's cancer 40 minutes before she went into surgery ?

 My wife might be dead in 2 hours and they pick that moment to push a loan on me, not the 4 weeks before the surgery but 40 minutes 

now I had the money for my co-pay  but waiting till they know we are at our most desperate place in our lives to the minute and then offering a loan

 

 My wife has been paying insurance bills for a living all her life she worked her way up the system and now she settles the lawsuits to a degree

and she has to oversee the people that investigate the injured parties 

 

 people just do not weigh in how many time a doctor is right and still insurance has to settle with the injured party because it cost to much to fight in a court of law 

we pay a good deal into  our insurance for that very thing 

 

 the cost of training is another issue ?

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, rrober49 said:

I think most of agree there should be no profit in healthcare but how many of us think about the FDA's  role in healthcare  ? feels like issuance has stolen the spot light  at times to me 

I wont be detoured from trying making sure we all get it, or driving down the costs till we can 

 

Doctors and health care professional need to make enough money to justify their years of training and preparation.  Otherwise there would not be enough incentive to attract people to the medical professions. 

 

The main factor driving up medical costs are the parasitic health insurance companies, making huge profits while being entirely unnecessary.  Health insurance forces doctors and hospitals to employ large numbers of clerks to process mountains of needless paperwork.  Single Payer does away with health insurance.   That's why the insurance companies so vehemently lobby against it.

 

High drug prices are not as simple.  The US has, by far, the highest drug prices in the world.  Without adequate profit, manufacturers of pharmaceuticals would not be able to continue research and development, at present levels.  Every country but the US have government agencies which regulate and negotiate the price of new prescription drugs.  These agencies also decide if new drugs are any improvement over existing ones.  But the US allows drug makers to set their own prices and lets every drug proven to be safe, come onto the market.

 

Big Pharma has lobbied long and hard to keep from being regulated in the US, resulting in sky-high drug costs.  There is a quandary here:   Lower drug prices would mean less R&D.  Still, something needs to be done to save Americans from paying extraordinarily high drug prices and getting drugs foisted on them that are no improvement over existing products.  Again, a Single Payer agency, should be able to negotiate with drug manufacturers to rectify what is now a grossly unfair and harmful situation for ordinary Americans.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bludog said:

Big Pharma has lobbied long and hard to keep from being regulated in the US, resulting in sky-high drug costs.  There is a quandary here:   Lower drug prices would mean less R&D.  Still, something needs to be done to save Americans from paying extraordinarily high drug prices and getting drugs foisted on them that are no improvement over existing products.  Again, a Single Payer agency, should be able to negotiate with drug manufacturers to rectify what is now a grossly unfair and harmful situation for ordinary Americans.

 

Since acquiring the rights to EpiPen in 2007, when a dose cost about $57, Mylan sparked public furor two years ago by hiking the cost of EpiPen to $600 for a two-pack of the auto-injecting pens.

 

  having no choice but to negotiate or people die and blame the insurance

 

 lot of grey in all this 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, rrober49 said:

Mylan sparked public furor two years ago by hiking the cost of EpiPen to $600 for a two-pack of the auto-injecting pens.

 

It is clear that, in the absence of governmental supervision, the Drug Industry puts profits over the lives of people nearly 100% of the time.  Big Industry in the US, not least Big Pharma, needs regulation.

 

Doctors are caught up in the system.

 

http://time.com/money/5360985/doctors-single-payer-healthcare/

Quote

 

August 2018

Doctors Used to Be the Greatest Opponents of Universal Health Care. Now They’re Embracing It

-snip-

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rrober49 said:

 

 when you make so much profit off opioides that makes the lawsuits worth it ?

 

health care , insurance , science

 

again I stress heath care does not need profits. I am not likely to come to idea I want to be a doctor because a CPA can make about the same

 

   you know ? at that the hospital they offered me a low interest rate loan to pay for my wife's cancer 40 minutes before she went into surgery ?

 My wife might be dead in 2 hours and they pick that moment to push a loan on me, not the 4 weeks before the surgery but 40 minutes 

now I had the money for my co-pay  but waiting till they know we are at our most desperate place in our lives to the minute and then offering a loan

 

 My wife has been paying insurance bills for a living all her life she worked her way up the system and now she settles the lawsuits to a degree

and she has to oversee the people that investigate the injured parties 

 

 people just do not weigh in how many time a doctor is right and still insurance has to settle with the injured party because it cost to much to fight in a court of law 

we pay a good deal into  our insurance for that very thing 

 

 the cost of training is another issue ?

 

I'll repeat what I wrote before:

 

 What needs to stop is unreasonable profit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×