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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez


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1 hour ago, GorgeousGeorge said:

t's fuking boring, irrelevant, and passe'.

 

Pluck, pluck, pluck.   

 

Like I said earlier ... it's going to be FUN debating socialism if someone DemocRATS continue to claim the mantle.

 

socialism-1.jpg

 

 

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14 hours ago, RollingRock said:

That's just not true.  I've voted for many Democrat since leaving the party.  What I'm against is the "vote blue no matter who" busllBad word and the disturbing trend of corporate donations and lobbyist influence within the Democratic party.  I'm of the belief that we need a government that is by the people and FOR the people (not by the lobbyist and for the corporation).  While I support many Democrats, I utterly refuse to cast a vote for corporate whores or establishment suck-ups.  

 

So, no, NOT a "sworn enemy of the Democratic party.  Not even close.  I'm a sworn enemy of money in politics as well as an enemy of some politicians who seem to care more about their lobbyist and donors than they do their constituents.  

It wasn't that long ago that most Americans understood easily that a balanced government, the narrow path to long-term success, depended on a vacillation between left and right, a perpetual tug of war.  Sometimes we lean right, others we lean left.  Sometimes the GOP won, other times it was the DNC.  Same in the courts, where a balanced bench kept us on the straight and narrow.  Even when your chosen candidate lost, it wasn't such a bitter pill, because you understood that the pendulum just had to swing.  It was a reality of democracy that you not only tolerated, but appreciated.  

 

But the pendulum hasn't swung left in a while.  The court system, right up through the SC, is getting packed with right-wingers.  We are not swinging, not seeking balance.  We are instead watching a battle between extremes play out, and people seem to have abandon a moderate, classical Liberal perspective in favor of this extremism, evidently decided that the lessons about extremism from history don't apply.  We're doing it in our economy, too.  Politically and economically we are moving right, and the opposition on the left has become tribal and extremist as well.

 

I hope the voice of moderation, reason, common ground, LIBERAL CRITICAL THINKING, can triumph without going through the ringer...again.

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7 hours ago, BeAChooser said:

Pluck, pluck, pluck.   

 

Like I said earlier ... it's going to be FUN debating socialism if someone DemocRATS continue to claim the mantle.

It's impossible to "debate" someone who doesn't even understand the difference between democratic socialism and Venezuela-style socialism (and who refuses to listen).  All you do is insult, condescend, and assail everyone with your 85-paragraph opinions, mind slammed shut. 

 

Boring.    

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4 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

It's impossible to "debate" someone who doesn't even understand the difference between democratic socialism and Venezuela-style socialism (and who refuses to listen).  All you do is insult, condescend, and assail everyone with your 85-paragraph opinions, mind slammed shut. 

 

Boring.    

People who support all kinds of government programs do not hesitate to call people "socialists" or "communists" the moment they support one program that they don't agree with.

 

It's pretty ignorant stuff.

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47 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

It's impossible to "debate" someone who doesn't even understand the difference between democratic socialism and Venezuela-style socialism (and who refuses to listen).  All you do is insult, condescend, and assail everyone with your 85-paragraph opinions, mind slammed shut. 

 

Boring.    

Ok tell us the difference we are listening at least I am 

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1 hour ago, RollingRock said:

It's impossible to "debate" someone who doesn't even understand the difference between democratic socialism and Venezuela-style socialism (and who refuses to listen).  All you do is insult, condescend, and assail everyone with your 85-paragraph opinions, mind slammed shut. 

 

Boring.    

 

This is where you lose all credibility. Hugo Chavez and the Venezuelan revolution was praised by so-called democratic socialists from Bernie Sanders to the Democratic Socialists of America as a model for the future.

 

Chavez himself identified as a "democratic socialist," and his revolutionary movement came to power through the ballot box.

 

Chavez's revolution was built on populism, with false promises that the "man on a white horse" was there to transform the lives of the poor and working classes." Instead, it was a cult-of-personality that used scapegoating as a means of grabbing power. Instead of lifting the poor, Chavez lined his pockets and those of his family and destroyed the Venezuelan economy and any pretense of law or liberty.

 

In Bernie Sanders we see a guy trying to walk the same path. Bernie uses the same appeals. Sanders blames all society's ill on the wealthy whose property he promises to confiscate to pay for all the free stuff the promises the masses.

 

Sanders acts like a caudillo--the man on a white horse--the one guy who is pure and the one guy who represents "the people." Like Chavez, Sanders has developed a cult-of-personality with followers who offer blind obedience and who react violently at any suggestion their god is a grifter, a con-man, and a dictator in the making. Which he is.

 

 First world social democrats don't attempt to tear apart and divide their societies. They believe in social cohesion. They know encouraging enterprise and unleashing capitalism is how their societies pay for generous social programs.

 

Bernie doesn't behave like a social democrat. He vilifies people who use their talents, hard work, and ingenuity to create wealth and who create jobs. Bernie doesn't care if his policies would destroy the American (and world) economies. He has a will to power. He is not different than Hugo Chavez, or Fidel Castro, or Daniel Ortega, or any of the other Marxist revolutionaries who he's praised.

 

Bernie Sanders was indoctrinated into Stalinist Marxism in 1964 after he (barely) graduated from college. He went off to Israel to undergo indoctrination training at the only "kibbutz" in all of Israel that was (literally) dedicated to promoting the ideology of Joseph Stalin. He's never wavered.

 

Bernie Sanders cultist would like to present their leader as some sort of social democrat. That's utterly false.

 

Bernie Sanders is a populist Marxist in the mold of Hugo Chavez with a good admixture of Eugene V Debs thrown into the mix. He is a dangerous man with a dangerous anti-liberal ideology. 

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

   

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15 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

This is where you lose all credibility. Hugo Chavez and the Venezuelan revolution was praised by so-called democratic socialists from Bernie Sanders to the Democratic Socialists of America as a model for the future.

 

Chavez himself identified as a "democratic socialist," and his revolutionary movement came to power through the ballot box.

 

Chavez's revolution was built on populism, with false promises that the "man on a white horse" was there to transform the lives of the poor and working classes." Instead, it was a cult-of-personality that used scapegoating as a means of grabbing power. Instead of lifting the poor, Chavez lined his pockets and those of his family and destroyed the Venezuelan economy and any pretense of law or liberty.

 

In Bernie Sanders we see a guy trying to walk the same path. Bernie uses the same appeals. Sanders blames all society's ill on the wealthy whose property he promises to confiscate to pay for all the free stuff the promises the masses.

 

Sanders acts like a caudillo--the man on a white horse--the one guy who is pure and the one guy who represents "the people." Like Chavez, Sanders has developed a cult-of-personality with followers who offer blind obedience and who react violently at any suggestion their god is a grifter, a con-man, and a dictator in the making. Which he is.

 

 First world social democrats don't attempt to tear apart and divide their societies. They believe in social cohesion. They know encouraging enterprise and unleashing capitalism is how their societies pay for generous social programs.

 

Bernie doesn't behave like a social democrat. He vilifies people who use their talents, hard work, and ingenuity to create wealth and who create jobs. Bernie doesn't care if his policies would destroy the American (and world) economies. He has a will to power. He is not different than Hugo Chavez, or Fidel Castro, or Daniel Ortega, or any of the other Marxist revolutionaries who he's praised.

 

Bernie Sanders was indoctrinated into Stalinist Marxism in 1964 after he (barely) graduated from college. He went off to Israel to undergo indoctrination training at the only "kibbutz" in all of Israel that was (literally) dedicated to promoting the ideology of Joseph Stalin. He's never wavered.

 

Bernie Sanders cultist would like to present their leader as some sort of social democrat. That's utterly false.

 

Bernie Sanders is a populist Marxist in the mold of Hugo Chavez with a good admixture of Eugene V Debs thrown into the mix. He is a dangerous man with a dangerous anti-liberal ideology. 

 

Bill   

 

Yawn.

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US-Led Economic War, Not Socialism, Is Tearing Venezuela Apart

 

Americans have been trained by decades of Cold War propaganda to look for any confirmation that ‘socialism means poverty.’ But in the case of Venezuela and other states not governed by the free market, this cliche simply doesn’t ring true.

https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-led-economic-war-not-socialism-tearing-venezuela-apart/218335/

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23 minutes ago, slideman said:

You have oversimplified and misrepresented what happened in Venezuela.

This is the sort of thing that demonstrates that the opposite of and the enemy of Liberalism is not conservativism.  It's extremism, or partisanship, or fundamentalism.  People can think through complex issues if they give themselves a chance.  Typically, they just don't, and we get blind adherence to propaganda from one source or another, and people behave as if they actually know things they really don't know anything about.

 

God forbid people look up the history of Venezuela and what has been happening, and seek out alternative views and sources to try to get some understanding of things.

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29 minutes ago, slideman said:

US-Led Economic War, Not Socialism, Is Tearing Venezuela Apart

 

Americans have been trained by decades of Cold War propaganda to look for any confirmation that ‘socialism means poverty.’ But in the case of Venezuela and other states not governed by the free market, this cliche simply doesn’t ring true.

https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-led-economic-war-not-socialism-tearing-venezuela-apart/218335/

 

LOL. This article suggests it isn't the democratic socialist dictators in Venezuela who are responsible for the country's economic collapse, but it is because of the Jews. LOL. 

 

Seriously dude? Saudia Arabia acting under the control of Israel and capitalists in London and New York conspired to undermine Chavezmo, despite the economic pain this created in Saudia Arabia.

 

Those Jews sure are clever!

 

Good grief.

 

Extremism is the enemy of liberalism. Let that thought sink in.

 

Bill

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50 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

 

Yawn.

 

Stalin killed more people than Hitler, a fact that was well-known in 1964 when Bernie Sanders traveled around the world to attend a Stalinist Indoctrination Camp, and for RR this truth elicits a "yawn."

 

We'd just come off the Cuban Missle Crisis and were at the height of the Cold War when Bernie Sanders chose Stalinism.

 

Not "democratic socialism," not social democracy, but the most extreme form of Marx-Leninism on the planet. An ideology soaked in blood. 

 

But RR says: "Yawn."

 

Quite telling.

 

Don't be fooled about what Bernie Sanders and Our Revolution are all about.

 

Bill

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8 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

You clearly know next to nothing about either.  Take your idiotic propaganda elsewhere, chuckles.  You're embarrassing yourself.

 

Do you deny that in 1964--after the enormity of Joseph Stalin's crimes against humanity had been revealed and at a time when the USSR posed an existential threat to the American people--that Bernie Sanders embraced Stalinism and attended a Stalinist political indoctrination camp in Israel?

 

Afterward, he tried to hide his time training in the Stalinist political indoctrination camp, refusing to name the camp. Pretending he couldn't remember the name. Trying to say only that he's spent time on a "kibbutz." LOL. There were plenty of Zionist-Socialist kibbutzes in Israel at the time. But only one dedicated to the ideology of Joseph Stalin.

 

Guess which one Bernie Sanders sought out?

 

Bernie Sanders embraced the ideology of Stalin and RR says: "Yawn."

 

"Yawn?" Freeking unbelievable!

 

Bill

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

Do you deny that in 1964--after the enormity of Joseph Stalin's crimes against humanity had been revealed and at a time when the USSR posed an existential threat to the American people--that Bernie Sanders embraced Stalinism and attended a Stalinist political indoctrination camp in Israel?

 

Afterward, he tried to hide his time training in the Stalinist political indoctrination camp, refusing to name the camp. Pretending he couldn't remember the name. Trying to say only that he's spent time on a "kibbutz." LOL. There were plenty of Zionist-Socialist kibbutzes in Israel at the time. But only one dedicated to the ideology of Joseph Stalin.

 

Guess which one Bernie Sanders sought out?

 

Bernie Sanders embraced the ideology of Stalin and RR says: "Yawn."

 

"Yawn?" Freeking unbelievable!

 

Bill

Bernie doesn't "embrace the ideology of Stalin," you deranged wackaloon.  Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Go fuck yourself.

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4 hours ago, RollingRock said:

It's impossible to "debate" someone who doesn't even understand the difference between democratic socialism and Venezuela-style socialism

 

LOL!  

 

CHICKEN.

 

Hate to tell you, RR, but AOC, Bernie and the rest of you Fabian Socialists aren't promising anything different than what Hugo Chavez promised.  

 

Everything is going to be *free*!!!!


Free healthcare.

 

Free schooling.

 

Free or subsidized housing.

 

A booming economy.

 

Jobs for everyone.

 

Distribution of wealth.

 

In short ... UTOPIA!

 

But we need more government to do that ... they all add.

 

We need more control of the media to assure that ... they all add.

 

And more control of society and people ... they all add.

 

So when all is said and done, what really is the difference between the democratic socialism you folks espouse and the socialism that Chavez's promoted?

 

After all, in January 2005, Hugo Chavez proclaimed the ideology of "socialism of the 21st Century" and said he wanted to promote "democratic socialism" in Latin America.

 

He called himself a "democratic socialist".

 

And I didn't hear ANY socialists or democRATS in the US object to him doing that.

 

Did YOU?

 

And then top DemocRATS spoke glowingly of the Venezuela experiment.   

 

In 2006, Solis Chavez Huerta, who was soon to be Obama's Labor Secretary, praised Hugo Chavez.

 

She said ...

 

http://blip.tv/episode/4077281

 

Quote

The average pay of a CEO of a fortune 500 company is 3 million to 9 million dollars a year.  What are you going to do with all that money, right?  I don't care how much money you make, you can only eat three meals a day, you know?  You can only wear one suit of clothes a day, you know?  So the idea …  a lot isn't wrong, as long as you use it for the people like Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuala. You know I was in Venezuela recently with the President Hugo Chavez, and he is putting up cooperative factories for the people, so that they can have work.  And the people there elect their own representatives.  They are making shoes for the school children.  Uniforms for the school children, backpacks and teeshirts.  They have a cooperative farm where the people grow their own food.  The military comes in to build houses for the people and you know what? Right there by the factory they have a medical clinic and a dental clinic free … free for the people. … snip … There are twenty thousand Cuban doctors that are coming to Venezuela.  They are setting up these neighborhoods with factories and jobs for the people and the medical clinics and co-ops right there in every single neighborhood in Venezuela.  Now, we are the richest country in the world, right?   So why can't we do that here in the United States?  … snip … Republicans hate latinos.  Ok?   Republicans hate latinos.

 

That same year Ayers attended an education forum in Venezuala and stood on a stage before a large crowd with communist dictator Hugo Chavez by his side.   He gave a rousing speech in which he said he supported “the profound educational reforms under way here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chávez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution. . . . I look forward to seeing how you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.”  Ayers concluded his speech by raising his fist and shouting “Viva Presidente Chávez! Viva la Revolucion Bolivariana! Hasta la Victoria Siempre!”   And guess what, snowflake, Ayers calls himself a *democratic socialist* (albeit he's also honest enough to admit he's a "little c" communist), too.   Just saying ...


In 2007, former members of SDS (Students for a Democratic Society) and the present day MDS ( Movement for a Democratic Society) (notice how socialists love to tack on the word *democratic* to give themselves legitimacy, folks?), came together for a reunion in  Michigan.   Bernadine Dohrns and Bill Ayers, both good friends of Obama, were there and Dohrn spoke to them about the "overthrow of capitalism", and about visiting Chavez's Venezuelan workers paradise where she said they were building a "new movement". 

 

In June of 2010 Hugo Chavez said this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00stbv6 ) ...

 

 

Quote

Democracy is impossible in a capitalist system. Capitalism is the realm of injustice and a tyranny of the richest against the poorest. Rousseau said, 'Between the powerful and the weak all freedom is oppressed. Only the rule of law sets you free.' That's why the only way to save the world is through socialism, a democratic socialism... [Democracy is not just turning up to vote every four or five years], it's much more than that, it's a way of life, it's giving power to the people... it is not the government of the rich over the people, which is what's happening in almost all the so-called democratic Western capitalist countries.

 

That's NO DIFFERENT than what AOC, Bernie and the rest of you Fabian Socialists are now saying, snowflake.

 

So do tell what the difference is?

 

Are AOC and Bernie going to get the money to fund all the largess that's each has promised from a different source than Hugo?

 

No.

 

They are going to levy exorbitant taxes against anyone who actually earns a living.

 

They are going to take it by force.

 

And the truth is that both AOC is now lying about the details of that, RR.

 

AOC is out there right now telling audiences that all we need to fund the utopia she promises is to tax people like Warren Buffet the same as his secretary.

 

She's referring to that off hand comment that liberal Buffet made years ago to try an appease the left.

 

She's apparently not bright enough to have learned by now that Buffett pays far more in taxes as a percentage of income than his secretary.

 

Not bright enough to have learned by now that his secretary is NOT one of the *poor* people she champions.

 

She claimed at one point that she paid 35.8% of her income in Federal tax, which would put her salary in the $500,000 a year range.

 

Plus Buffet has given tens of billions of dollars away to charities.

 

I guess that charity doesn't qualify for anything in the minds of *democratic socialists* either.

 

They believe (like a religion) that charity can ONLY come from The State, not the heart.

 

The truth is that AOC is dishonest in not acknowledging that the top 1 percent ALREADY pay nearly 40% of all income taxes.

 

The top 5% pay 60% of all taxes.

 

The top 10% pay over 70% of all taxes.

 

She's not honest enough to acknowledge that the people that she represents (the bottom 50%) pay less than 3 percent of all federal taxes.

 

 

She's just spouting demagoguery.

 

The bottom line is that ...

 

Socialism_Capitalism_Luxuries_Necessitie
 

The bottom line is that ...

 

Lefties-never-learn-650.jpg

 

The bottom line is ...

 

IMG_1306.jpg

 

The bottom line is 

 

communism.jpg

 

And THAT is where things really get interesting ...

 

Which is why you snowflakes don't want to discuss Fabian Socialism.

 

:P

 

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1 hour ago, SpyCar said:

Hugo Chavez and the Venezuelan revolution was praised by so-called democratic socialists from Bernie Sanders to the Democratic Socialists of America as a model for the future.

 

Chavez himself identified as a "democratic socialist," and his revolutionary movement came to power through the ballot box.

 

Chavez's revolution was built on populism, with false promises that the "man on a white horse" was there to transform the lives of the poor and working classes." Instead, it was a cult-of-personality that used scapegoating as a means of grabbing power. Instead of lifting the poor, Chavez lined his pockets and those of his family and destroyed the Venezuelan economy and any pretense of law or liberty.

 

In Bernie Sanders we see a guy trying to walk the same path. Bernie uses the same appeals. Sanders blames all society's ill on the wealthy whose property he promises to confiscate to pay for all the free stuff the promises the masses.

 

EXACTLY.

 

Unfortunately, SpyCar still can't see that Bernie is just a Fabian Socialist at heart.

 

And THAT is the real enemy.

 

Has been for over a hundred years.

 

Because Fabian Socialism takes many forms.

 

Including that of Hillary Clinton and Bush Jr.

 

B)

 

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1 hour ago, RollingRock said:

Bernie doesn't "embrace the ideology of Stalin," you deranged wackaloon.  Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Go Bad word yourself.

 

Sure he has. Why else did he go to a Stalinist Indoctrination Center in 1964?


You don't deny that he spent six months at a Stalinist political indoctrination center, do you?

 

You don't deny Bernie lied and obfuscated about his time at this camp, do you?

 

You don't deny the fact that Joseph Stalin's crimes--killing even more people than Hitler did--was well-known at the time Sanders underwent political indoctrination at this camp that was dedicated to Stalin and Stalinism, do you?

 

If Trump when to Hitler Youth Camp you'd scream bloody murder. 

 

But Bernie Sanders embrace of Stalin brings a yawn.

 

Vey telling comrade.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SpyCar said:

 

Sure he has. Why else did he go to a Stalinist Indoctrination Center in 1964?


You don't deny that he spent six months at a Stalinist political indoctrination center, do you?

 

You don't deny Bernie lied and obfuscated about his time at this camp, do you?

 

You don't deny the fact that Joseph Stalin's crimes--killing even more people than Hitler did--was well-known at the time Sanders undergo political indoctrination at this camp that was dedicated to Stalin and Stalinism, do you?

 

If Trump when to Hitler Youth Camp you'd scream bloody murder. 

 

But Bernie Sanders embrace of Stalin brings a yawn.

 

Vey telling comrade.

 

Bill

Yawn. 

 

Your lies and idiotic propaganda are making you look foolish.   Get over your obsession once and for all.  

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Just now, RollingRock said:

Yawn. 

 

Your lies and idiotic propaganda are making you look foolish.   Get over your obsession once and for all.  

 

No, your *yawning* at the fact that your cult leader underwent political indoctrination at a Stalinist training center makes you not only look foolish but an accomplice to evil. Stalin was a monster. Who chooses to go to a camp dedicated to his evil ideology? Bernie Sanders.

 

You have no shame. No shame that you helped elect Trump. No shame that you support a Marxist who seeks to subvert liberal democracy in America.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

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