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Avoiding Meat & Dairy Is 'Single Biggest Way' To Reduce Your Impact On Earth

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On 4/25/2019 at 1:03 PM, bludog said:

 

To comport with the spirit and environmental practicality of veggie burgers, they should come only in biodegradable plastic wrappers.  But, even if not perfectly packaged, the burgers themselves still represent an enormous ecological benefit, as compared to beef.  To say nothing of the prevention of heartless slaughter.

 

Beyond Beef must have heard my complaint.  I went into my local health food store and found the new Beyond Beef sausages in a CARDBOARD TRAY.  Snapped them up right away.   I'm hoping to see the burgers in the cardboard trays soon.

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On 5/23/2019 at 6:31 AM, LoreD said:

 

Beyond Beef must have heard my complaint.  I went into my local health food store and found the new Beyond Beef sausages in a CARDBOARD TRAY.  Snapped them up right away.   I'm hoping to see the burgers in the cardboard trays soon.

absolutely - stop the madness of recycling all this plastic, much of which winds up in landfills and slowly disintegrates spewing carbon into the atmosphere.

We need to highly praise good food a lot more than we do. I'm a vegetarian and have been for thirty years. I'm not against eating meat, but we as a people eat way too much. 

Imagine if the whole world ate as much meat as the US... Not to mention the total destruction of the natural  rain forests/

https://rainforestpartnership.org/the-beef-industry-and-deforestation/

 

 

 

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On 5/24/2019 at 8:12 PM, TheOldBarn said:

absolutely - stop the madness of recycling all this plastic, much of which winds up in landfills and slowly disintegrates spewing carbon into the atmosphere.

We need to highly praise good food a lot more than we do. I'm a vegetarian and have been for thirty years. I'm not against eating meat, but we as a people eat way too much. 

Imagine if the whole world ate as much meat as the US... Not to mention the total destruction of the natural  rain forests/

https://rainforestpartnership.org/the-beef-industry-and-deforestation/

 

 

 

 

There is a movement..  

 

Two-thirds of U.S. consumers say they are eating less meat

 

 

Two of every three participants in a U.S. consumer survey report that they are eating less of at least one type of meat, according to a study conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future.

 

The most commonly reported reasons participants gave for cutting meat consumption were cost and health concerns.

"THIS SURVEY ADDS TO A GROWING BODY OF EVIDENCE THAT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION MAY BE PURPOSEFULLY REDUCING THEIR MEAT CONSUMPTION WITHOUT BECOMING VEGETARIAN OR VEGAN."
Roni Neff
Associate professor

The study, conducted in 2015, is thought to be the first of its kind to collect responses from U.S. consumers about the foods they choose to eat instead of meat during meatless meals. Findings were published in the July issue of the journal Public Health Nutrition.

 

"Many Americans continue to have strong preferences for meat, but this survey adds to a growing body of evidence that a significant portion of the population may be purposefully reducing their meat consumption without becoming vegetarian or vegan," said Roni Neff, an assistant professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and director of the center's Food System Sustainability and Public Health Program. "We hope our findings will be useful for the development of awareness campaigns and other interventions geared toward helping consumers reduce their meat consumption in a way that is good for their health, their grocery budgets, and the environment."

 

Meat consumption in the United States exceeds recommended levels, with significant consequences for public health and the environment. To better understand consumer attitudes and behaviors related to reducing meat consumption, researchers collected survey responses from a nationally representative sample of 1,112 U.S. adults ages 18 and older.

 

For purposes of the survey, researchers defined meat reduction as eating less red meat, processed meat, poultry, or seafood over the past three years.

 

Participants between the ages of 45 to 59 were twice as likely to reduce consumption of one or more types of meat as those 18 to 29, followed by those over age 60. Women were more likely than men to report reducing meat consumption.

 

Household income was also associated with reduced meat consumption: the lower the income level, the greater the likelihood of reporting reduced meat consumption.

 

Respondents with incomes lower than $25,000 were more likely to report cutting their overall meat consumption than those with household incomes greater than $75,000. Researchers also observed that the parents of children under age 18 were less likely to reduce their overall meat consumption than non-parents.

 

The researchers note that the responses offer useful insights into which meat products consumers say they are cutting back on. Fifty-five percent of respondents reported reducing their consumption of processed meat, and forty-one percent reported reducing the amount of red meat in their diets. Of those who reported reducing red and processed meat, 37 percent said they had increased their poultry or seafood consumption.

 

The most commonly reported approach to reducing meat consumption was buying less meat (64 percent), followed by smaller portion sizes (56 percent), meatless meals (42 percent), meatless days (32 percent), and avoiding meat altogether (9 percent).

 

"Our survey results suggest that public health messages on the benefits of reducing red and processed meat consumption may be reaching and resonating with many U.S. consumers, but more work remains to be done," Neff said. "Priorities for meat reduction campaigns should include addressing common misperceptions about meatless meals, and promoting alternatives that consumers enjoy and that are affordable, healthy, and environmentally friendly. They should emphasize that meatless meals can be interesting and taste good, and could also provide resources like recipes with other options."

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5 minutes ago, Imgreatagain said:

It’s odd to see this post on one of the biggest cook out weekends of the year. 

Your movement is in the toilet 

 

This is the LO ROOM.  YOU DON'T BELONG HERE.

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British supermarket:

 

According to Kantar Worldpanel, 29% of all evening meals in the UK are now vegan or vegetarian, with sales of Yorkshire-based Quorn Foods experiencing a 16% sales rise in 2017.

 

Through January 2018, one in 10 shoppers bought a meat-free ready meal, boosting sales by 15% compared to January 2017. Sales of vegetables, such as spinach and aubergine, also risen 43% and 23% respectively.

 

TESCO IS SHUTTING DOWN MEAT COUNTERS DUE TO LACK OF DEMAND

 

The change appears to be as a result of a lack of customer demand. “We’re making changes to our UK stores and head office to simplify what we do and how we do it, so we’re better able to meet the needs of our customers,” Tesco chief executive Jason Tarry told Cornwall Live.

 

Earlier this year, The Guardian reported that the change may affect 732 of the supermarket chain’s larger stores.

 

Tesco’s Plant-Based Food

Tesco has become a leader in vegan product launches over the past year, appealing to the rising consumer demand for healthier, more sustainable food. Its own-brand vegan ready-meal range, Wicked Kitchen, launched earlier last year and soon exceeded sales projections by more than double. The Wicked Kitchen meals were given partial credit for Tesco’s revenue spike in April 2018 and by August, Tesco shoppers had purchased four million of the vegan dishes.

 

Following the “phenomenal” consumer response, the grocery store chain announced it would add 26 new vegan products to the range.

 

 “At the start of the year, I said that veganism was going mainstream, and – as plant-based options are taking over the supermarket shelves – that belief is fast becoming a reality,” said Wicked Kitchen creator Derek Sarno at the time.

 

The grocery store chain was also the first in the UK to stock the Beyond Burger, a realistic vegan burger that “bleeds” like meat, made by California-based brand Beyond Meat.

 

We know from our own data that flexitarianism is on the rise and many more customers are dabbling in cutting out meat for a day or so during their weekly diet,” said Tesco product development director, Kate Ewart. Even long-standing vegetarian brands like Quorn are taking notice of the fact that vegan products are not as niche as they once were. Over the summer, the company announced it had invested £7 million into research and development to create new vegan products.

 

Last April, Tesco began selling vegan products in the meat aisle in a bid to attract more customers.

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31 minutes ago, LoreD said:

TESCO IS SHUTTING DOWN MEAT COUNTERS DUE TO LACK OF DEMAND

 

Great news.  I hope to see headlines like this with increasing frequency.  I wonder what percentage of cookouts, this weekend will be with veggie burgers.  Maybe more than most people assume.

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6 hours ago, bludog said:

 

Great news.  I hope to see headlines like this with increasing frequency.  I wonder what percentage of cookouts, this weekend will be with veggie burgers.  Maybe more than most people assume.

 

At my last annual check up, my meat eating physician looked at my blood tests, my lack of medications, and asked me if it would be difficult to go meat free.

 

I think most people are just cutting down on animal products.  People don't need meat 3 times a day.  

 

We know from our own data that flexitarianism is on the rise and many more customers are dabbling in cutting out meat for a day or so during their weekly diet,” said Tesco product development director, Kate Ewart. 

 

 

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Much as renewable sources of energy like solar and wind are probably intermediate between fossil fuels and fusion;  So plant-based meat is intermediate between animal-sourced meat and cultured meat.

 

Cultured meat is indistinguishable from real meat,  both in taste and texture.

 

Indeed it IS real meat.  It is genetically identical to livestock, raised-for-slaughter, now.   It starts out from stem cells and is grown in "vats" in a factory.  "Cultured"  meat can be beef, pork, lamb, or any species of poultry, or fish.  And it can be grown with selected characteristics;  Like the amount of fat, nutritional content, and type of flavor.  It's growth is supported with vegetable matter.  The genetic meat culturing process is more efficient, less expensive and less risky than in the livestock industry.  It eliminates anabolic steroids, mass use of antibiotics, and inhumane slaughter. 

 

"Cultured meat" has many times less impact on the environment than the livestock industry.  And it spews exponentially less methane and CO2 into Earth's atmosphere.

 

"Cultured" meat is not yet commercialized but has been produced and consumed, on a test basis, confirming it's authenticity.  Soon it will be ready for mass production.  When it arrives on the market, the livestock industry won't be able to compete.  And veggie-based meat will no longer fill a niche in the marketplace.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

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13 hours ago, bludog said:

"Cultured" meat is not yet commercialized but has been produced and consumed, on a test basis, confirming it's authenticity.  Soon it will be ready for mass production.  When it arrives on the market, the livestock industry won't be able to compete.  And veggie-based meat will no longer fill a niche in the marketplace.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

 

Veggie-based near will still be around, because some people will like it, either for taste or for health reasons (real or imagined). But I agree the market will shrink a bit.

 

I'll certainly try cultured meat when it's available, even if it's expensive at first, just out of curiosity. I agree that the price will eventually be less than the price of meat from raised animals. (But probably still more expensive than vegetables.) It will probably also be more tender than meat from raised animals, as this is a quality that can be produced in the factory.

 

I like the description "cellular agriculture".

 

One thing I'm very curious about, in the way people are curious about the sex lives of celebrities: how will Orthodox and Chasidic Jews consider cultured meat in relation to their dietary laws (aka Kashrut).

  • Will it be considered kosher at all?
  • If so, will it be considered a meat product, therefore not permitted to be consumed simultaneously with dairy?
  • If it is not considered a meat product, will pseudo-pork created through cellular agriculture be considered kosher? (Or for Muslims, halal?)
  • I foresee religious schisms based on alternate interpretations of "halakha" (religious law according to Jewish Orthodox understanding).

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2 hours ago, laripu said:

I'll certainly try cultured meat when it's available, even if it's expensive at first, just out of curiosity.

 

Due to startup and investment costs, It will be expensive in the beginning.  Also, the livestock industry will fight to suppress the vat-grown product.  That is starting to happen now with veggie-derived meat substitutes.  Mississippi criminalized the term veggie burger this year.  That could only have come about by lobbying from the livestock industry.  But veggie advocates and environmentalists are fighting back.

 

Quote

Mississippi 'veggie burgers' law draws First Amendment lawsuit

3 days ago - Upton's Naturals and the Plant Based Foods Association is suing top Mississippi officials over a 2019 law that prohibits companies from using meat terminology when selling vegetarian and vegan products. ... "Thankfully Mississippi has not started to enforce that ban yet," attorney ...

 

In the end, the efficiencies of growing meat in a factory, compared to raising animals for slaughter, should be so overwhelming, that the livestock industry will go the way of the buggy whip.

 

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2 hours ago, bludog said:

Mississippi criminalized the term veggie burger this year

 

"violators could face up to a year in prison and a $1,000 fine” :  Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

 

What about almond milk and rice milk? If it isn't struck down as unconstitutional, I'll bet the dairy industry will soon also try to make Mississippi their bitch.

 

2 hours ago, bludog said:

In the end, the efficiencies of growing meat in a factory, compared to raising animals for slaughter, should be so overwhelming, that the livestock industry will go the way of the buggy whip.

 

I think it'll reduce meat consumption by 90%, but not all the way.

 

There will still be an upscale luxury market, where price is no object. You can buy a lot of Honda Civics (average $25,000) for the price of a Rolls Royce Phantom (average $600,000), 24 of them, but if someone can afford a Phantom and wants one, the Civic won't do.

 

If a perfect animal-origin steak costs $200 at a very upscale restaurant, they're will still be people who buy it over a similar $10 cultured version. Americans in the top 1 percentile of net worth have a net worth over $10 million. There are over 3,272,000 Americans with at least that net worth. They'll be eating cow meat, not lab meat. So will many others, at least some of the time.

 

Guns are the weapon of choice, but archery still exists. Credit cards didn't eliminate cash. Google pay hasn't eliminated credit cards. Horses are still ridden, even if you drive a car to the stables. LPs/CDs/MP3s. Tablets/books. etc etc.

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38 minutes ago, laripu said:

Guns are the weapon of choice, but archery still exists. Credit cards didn't eliminate cash. Google pay hasn't eliminated credit cards. Horses are still ridden, even if you drive a car to the stables. LPs/CDs/MP3s. Tablets/books. etc etc.

 

True enough.  But check out all the gadget which are gone for good.  Very few still yearn for them.

https://www.pocket-lint.com/gadgets/news/141336-33-obsolete-technologies-that-will-baffle-modern-generations

 

38 minutes ago, laripu said:

If a perfect animal-origin steak costs $200 at a very upscale restaurant, they're will still be people who but it over a similar $10 cultured version. Americans in the top 1 percentile of net worth have a net worth over $10 million. There are over 3,272,000 Americans with at least that net worth. They'll be eating cow meat, not lab meat. So will many others, at least some of the time.

 

Could be.  I'm guessing the consistent quality, batch after batch, of cultured meat will better in every way, than meat from slaughtered animals.  From taste to nutrition.  Why would the 1% want an inferior product, in every way?  I doubt snobbery among the very rich extends to paying more for inferior food of the past. 

Take a look at whiskey:

In the 1800s, whiskey was often watered down and could have unknown, harmful ingredients. 

Quote

<snip>  So what were they drinking back then? Some popular whiskey nicknames from the era offer a glimpse: mountain howitzer, coffin varnish, chain-lightning, strychnine, and tangleleg—none of which sound very appetizing. Cowboys never had a reputation for being very sophisticated connoisseurs. The whiskey they drank was simply fuel for the saloons' many other pastimes, whatever those happened to be.

Quality and flavor among whiskies in the late 1800s varied widely. There were few regulations about how the stuff should be made. Additionally, trademark and copyright rules were lax. Not much prevented someone from calling a product "Pure Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey, Aged 10 years," even though just about every word on the label was a lie and the product tasted like kerosene. Back then, it was hard to know exactly what you were buying.  <snip>

 

No one indulges in "Coffin Varnish" today, even if they're worth ten billion of those elusive, green sponduits.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, bludog said:

Could be.  I'm guessing the consistent quality, batch after batch, of cultured meat will better in every way, than meat from slaughtered animals.

 

I believe that's true, which will account for the 90%. However, when raised beef becomes a luxury product, only the perfect cuts will be served. There will be some imagined taste qualities that people will appreciate when they pay $$$ for real meat. I imagine the less than perfect parts will be sold got less, or donated to homeless shelters, or be used for dog food, or have some other use.

 

1 hour ago, bludog said:

No one indulges in "Coffin Varnish" today, even if they're worth ten billion of those elusive, green sponduits.

 

That's not a fair comparison, because crap whiskey was whiskey and there is still whiskey sold. (Nevertheless, a lot of whiskey is sold using nostalgia advertising. Just look at the numbers if bourbons with "old" in the name.)

 

That example is more like a Ford Pinto, compared to modern cars. No-one is looking back nostalgically to drive one of those.

 

The link to obsolete tech supports your argument better. But there's still a difference: meat isn't a tool. Meat is food and culture.

 

But 90% isn't bad. I look forward to it.

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2 hours ago, laripu said:

I believe that's true, which will account for the 90%. However, when raised beef becomes a luxury product, only the perfect cuts will be served. There will be some imagined taste qualities that people will appreciate when they pay $$$ for real meat. I imagine the less than perfect parts will be sold got less, or donated to homeless shelters, or be used for dog food, or have some other use.

 

As of now, all true meat is slaughtered meat.  Still, given a choice between dining on part of a slaughtered animal or feasting on cultured cells, the moral choice is clear, to most people.  As of now we don't have that choice.  That doesn't stop people from being able to make the moral distinction.  So it's not unreasonable to expect that when an identical and economically competitive choice becomes available a social stigma will take hold similar to the revulsion to cannibalism.  Or most people's revulsion to eating eg, a chimpanzee.  Or even, for most Americans, whale meat.

 

I suspect that once the mass slaughter of livestock ceases, it will be viewed as an ugly barbarism of the past;  No longer necessary ...  And associated with social stigma.  So in a future of easily available cultured meat, people, whatever their economic status, who harbor a perverse desire to consume part of slaughtered animal, might be well advised to do it in secret.

 

Except for the rare Jeffrey Dahmer type pathology, I don't foresee anyone considering it desirable to go back to slaughter for food.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, bludog said:

So it's not unreasonable to expect that when an identical and economically competitive choice becomes available a social stigma will take hold similar to the revulsion to cannibalism.  Or most people's revulsion to eating eg, a chimpanzee.  Or even, for most Americans, whale meat.

 

Rebuttal:

 

Donald-Trump-Jr-and-Eric-Trump-hunting.j

 

image-1.jpg?w=384

 

150729-stern-Eric-trump-Kudu-tease_bnblp

 

... and the millions of Americans that voted for Trumpelstiltskin.

 

Hunting is a cultural activity in America. Many people won't give it up any more than they'll give up their religion, or their hatreds, or their racism. Thirty-five percent of the population are racist or dirt-stupid, or both. Therefore they won't give up slaughtered meat easily. They might eat cultured meat most of the year for the price, then go kill a deer or moose during hunting season, and put it in the freezer.

 

I've had both. They're good. I'd eat either again.

(But I've never fired a gun, nor hunted. Went fishing a few times in my life: didn't enjoy it.)

 

Still, hunters taking game once a year is better than the current meat industry and industrial slaughter.

 

Afterthought: suppose we had cheap cultured meat of all kinds in every Walmart. Now think of the people that won't vaccinate, and their conspiracy theories. Won't people like that believe one about cultured meat, government control, weird diseases or whatever? They'll be saying the meat comes from Christians and conservatives in government concentration camps run by Malia Obama. Faster than you can say Philly cheesesteak or pastrami on rye.

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1 hour ago, laripu said:

Hunting is a cultural activity in America. Many people won't give it up any more than they'll give up their religion, or their hatreds, or their racism. Thirty-five percent of the population are racist or dirt-stupid, or both. Therefore they won't give up slaughtered meat easily. They might eat cultured meat most of the year for the price, then go kill a deer or moose during hunting season, and put it in the freezer.

 

I know something about this:

 

You are partially correct about the mindset of some hunters.  For that minority, the comparison with the anti vaxxers and their conspiracy theories is a particularly good one ...  Said with the caveat that everywhere in the US, the number of hunters goes down each year and in some places, only old men continue the practice.  There is  increasing awareness in each younger generation, of the inhumane nature of hunting and fishing.

 

Very briefly, here's how it works:

Presently, state governments encourage hunting by selling licenses to the public.  Without state support, the hunting culture would wither.

 

In the US, state governments control legal hunting.  Illegal poaching is a matter for law enforcement.  Any or all the states could outlaw hunting tomorrow and end practice for law abiding citizens.  In which case, the activity and so, the culture of hunting would come to an abrupt halt.  Except:---  Every state relies on hunters to cull excess prey and predator populations, as determined by wildlife biologists.  Due to burgeoning  human populations and habitat loss, there is nowhere in the US where a natural balance between predators and prey exists.  It would be too lengthy to go into detail here.

 

In every state, hunters purchase licenses, usually required to be worn in plain sight.  There are licenses for small game, big game, fish and different kinds of wild poultry, like wild turkey.  Booklets are issued with detailed rules as to dates, hours, sex of prey, type of gun, caliber, etc, etc, etc.  These hunters work, in effect, for the state and pay handsomely for the privilege of doing so.  They pay for wildlife departments and the skilled rangers and biologists who manage them.  But if the amount of hunters continues to diminish, something else will have to replace them.

 

Like the system in Australia which prohibits hunting by civilians and hires professional hunters to cull overpopulated species.  In Australia, the government pays, instead of getting paid, for wildlife population control.  But in either the US or Australia, failure to control runaway wildlife population growth results in thousands of animals dying of starvation.

 

Like it or hate it, legal "sport" hunting in nearly every part of Africa costs and arm and a leg, paid to the government, usually in support of wildlife preserves.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, laripu said:

Now think of the people that won't vaccinate, and their conspiracy theories.

 

Anti-vaxxers and hunters are, in many ways, polar opposites.  Anti-vaxxers demonstrate their faith by taking no action.  Hunters, by the nature of their activities, are extremely active and often tend to get involved.  Government encourages hunters while it tries to snap anti-vaxxers out of their obstinate resistance.  Government could easily shut hunters activities down.  But government has had a hard time convincing anti-vaxxers to get them and theirs vaccinated.

 

4 hours ago, laripu said:

Won't people like that believe one about cultured meat, government control, weird diseases or whatever? They'll be saying the meat comes from Christians and conservatives in government concentration camps run by Malia Obama. Faster than you can say Philly cheesesteak or pastrami on rye. 

 

None of this will matter if the states abandon the licensing of civilian hunters, in favor of culling game populations by hired professionals.  But the states are loathe give up the revenue garnered from the present system.   Instead they are redoubling efforts to recruit new hunters.  In my state, hunting licenses are sold in every sporting good shop and hardware store, Walmart and other outlets.

 

If delicious, cheap, cultured meat is available, the conspiracy theorists will most likely buy and consume it enthusiastically.  Giving the lie to anti cultured meat rhetoric.   Just as 100% of free enterprise Conservatives embrace Social Security and Medicare, when it comes their way.  Giving the lie to their indoctrinated beliefs.

 

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8 hours ago, bludog said:

If delicious, cheap, cultured meat is available, the conspiracy theorists will most likely buy and consume it enthusiastically.  Giving the lie to anti cultured meat rhetoric.   Just as 100% of free enterprise Conservatives embrace Social Security and Medicare, when it comes their way.  Giving the lie to their indoctrinated beliefs.

 

Good analogy. I hope you're right.

 

I'm thinking:

 

- an 8 oz cultured steak, with a sprinkle of Montreal steak spice, and a few drops of Lea & Perrin's Worcestershire sauce, medium rare.

- A side of spinach, not creamed, but cooked in broth with a medicinal amount of garlic.

- No potatoes, but very dark rye bread with caraway seeds.

- A small salad containing with arugula, cherry tomatoes and diced cucumber, simple oil and vinegar dressing.

- For dessert, Greek yogurt with drizzled honey and pitted cherries scattered on top.

- strong coffee.

- a nap.

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