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14 minutes ago, DemoMan said:

 

And why do you think your personal opinion about medical and health decisions as well as physical risk to their health and lives should be forced on other people?

 

Because that sounds pretty fascistic and un-American and not at all about "FREEDOM!".

 

It's no different than any other political issue. We all have opinions and everyone's entitled to theirs.

 

Laws are invented by people with opinions. Right now the law favors pro-abortionists but that could change. Laws are "forced" on people against their will all the time. I will express my opinion and advocate laws that agree with it, just like you and everyone else.

 

Why do you want to silence those you disagree with? That sounds pretty fascistic and un-American.

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15 hours ago, Veritas101 said:

The debate is about the law, using the law as the reason shows you are fucking stupid.  

No, I just disagee with.  You need to understand that the courts don't own a woman's uterus.  The law states that women (and their doctors) are more than intelligent and responsible enough to make their own medical decisions, including decisions about their pregnancies.   As men, we have no say in the matter (nor should we).     

 

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The law alsom says innocent until prove guilty but that doesnt stop you stupid fucks when you suck Russia's cock

I like the ladies, bro.  :D  You're the one who seems overly focused on 'sucking cock.' 

 

Plus it's your orange hero that seems to be hot for Russians.   Kinda telling...

 

zHLyVxZ.jpg

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15 hours ago, Doug1943 said:

At what point should it be all right to kill a potential human in the womb?  At the very instant that the sperm attaches itself to the egg?  Or later?

 

http://planb.ca/

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29 minutes ago, SixShooter said:

 

It's no different than any other political issue.

 

Of course it is.  In this case, people's bodily autonomy is being threatened, all to service the personal beleifs of otherindividuals.

 

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, SixShooter said:

 

It's no different than any other political issue.

It's NOT a political issue and it's fucking sad that anti-choicers keep trying to make it one.   Abortion is a medical procedure and medical privacy laws are clear as a bell. 

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54 minutes ago, SixShooter said:

 

It's no different than any other political issue.

 

Of course it is.  In this case, people's bodily autonomy is being threatened, all to service the personal beliefs of other individuals.

 

YOU: We all have opinions and everyone's entitled to theirs.

 

And fire is hot.  Well done.

 

YOU: Laws are invented by people with opinions.

 

Do you have a point in repeatedly stating the obvious?

 

YOU: Right now the law favors pro-abortionists but that could change.

 

You see, when you start lying right away, referring to pro-choice people as "pro-abortionists", it shows that you already know that you cannot prove your case honestly, and have to rely on lies.

 

YOU: Laws are "forced" on people against their will all the time.

 

Yes, they are. And fire is still hot. 

Now, I still am unable to find your justification for why people should have their autonomy violated, at great risk to their health and lives, all to service the personal opinions of other individuals. I'm sorry if this is too complicated for you to follow.  Care to take another stab at it?

 

YOU: I will express my opinion and advocate laws that agree with it, just like you and everyone else.

 

No one has told you you can't. Is lying and playing victim your only debate skill?

Me: "Explain your position."

You:   "Wah  waaah I'm being oppressed!"

Why are all you cons such whiny, victimized, lying  little snowflakes?

 

YOU: Why do you want to silence those you disagree with? That sounds pretty fascistic and un-American.

 

:D:D   "How DARE you ask me to explain my position!   You're trying to SILENCE me!  Wah wah wah!'

I don't need to ask you why you adore LYING.  You're an unethical, immoral con whore, who can't defend his propaganda, so you start dancing around, wailing about being victimized.

 

it's not very effective, but it sure is FUNNY.

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9 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

It's NOT a political issue and it's fucking sad that anti-choicers keep trying to make it one.   Abortion is a medical procedure and medical privacy laws are clear as a bell. 

 

Yes it IS a political issue, that's why your "side" used a very narrow "opinion" within the political process to turn common sense on its head and legalize feticide.

 

Yes, it's a medical procedure. Yes, the law is clear... for now.

 

Hopefully another SC appointment is right around the corner. I'm pulling for Judge William "Roe Is An Abomination" Pryor.

 

 

1 minute ago, DemoMan said:

"How DARE you ask me to explain my position!   You're trying to SILENCE me!  Wah wah wah!'

 

I answered your question, nutcase. The "justification" for protecting fetuses is simple; they're humans who have a right to life. Now go scream at someone else, freak, that's all you do here.

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19 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

It's NOT a political issue and it's fucking sad that anti-choicers keep trying to make it one.   Abortion is a medical procedure.....

 

.....That MALE MEMBERS, OF CONGRESS, WILL NEVER FACE!!!!

 

LEAVE IT UP TO FEMALE CONGRESS-MEMBERS....SOLELY...TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE!!!!

THE PATRIARCHY IS DEAD!!!!!

 

a976a6b9e2132d814b4fdfd8dc52bf5e.jpg

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9 minutes ago, SixShooter said:

 

I answered your question, nutcase.

 

No, you didn't, you ridiculous liar.  You shouted generalities that did nothing to defend your position, then you lied about being victimized so you could weep and wail.

 

YOU: The "justification" for protecting fetuses is simple; they're humans who have a right to life.

 

Now all you have to do is support that empty claim.  Can you?

 

YOU:  Now go scream at someone else, freak, that's all you do here.

 

I can see how upset and indignant you are that your lies and propaganda are being challenged.

Hope you realize that I don't care.  Weep all you want.

 

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2 minutes ago, DemoMan said:

 

No, you didn't, you ridiculous liar.  You shouted generalities that did nothing to defend your position, then you lied about being victimized so you could weep and wail.

 

YOU: The "justification" for protecting fetuses is simple; they're humans who have a right to life.

 

Now all you have to do is support that empty claim.  Can you?

 

YOU:  Now go scream at someone else, freak, that's all you do here.

 

I can see how upset and indignant you are that your lies and propaganda are being challenged.

Hope you realize that I don't care.  Weep all you want.

 

 

hehehe

 

I can tell you don't care by how you ignore the thread and my posts.

 

:lol:

 

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1 hour ago, SixShooter said:

 

Yes it IS a political issue, that's why your "side" used a very narrow "opinion" within the political process to turn common sense on its head and legalize feticide.

 

The law sided with those who are alive.  No woman should be forced to gestate and give birth against their will (only to have their welfare slashed and their Medicaid cancelled due to "pro-life" assholes who only seek to control women and their medical choices). 

 

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Yes, it's a medical procedure. Yes, the law is clear... for now.

The right to choose needs to remain.  All outlawing abortion is going to "accomplish" is making the procedure less safe.  It will still exist. 

 

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Hopefully another SC appointment is right around the corner. I'm pulling for Judge William "Roe Is An Abomination" Pryor.

I don't see that happening anytime soon.  But even if it did, overturning Roe would only accomplish turning the decision on abortion back to the states.  Most states, like most Americans, believe in a woman's right to choose (at least to some degree).   Women who have their right to choose taken away would be forced to travel to get an abortion.  But travel they would, if they are financially able. 

 

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 The "justification" for protecting fetuses is simple; they're humans who have a right to life.

"Born alive" is the legal standard for human rights.  That's unlikely to change anytime soon.  By forcing a woman to bear a child she doesn't want/can't afford, anti-choice legislation would giving a fetus more rights than a woman.  You or I don't have the right to live inside the body of another against their will.  How can you sanely want to give a fetus that "right?"    

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1 hour ago, SixShooter said:

 

hehehe

I can tell you don't care by how you ignore the thread and my posts.

:lol:

 

 

 

What I said, you poor, stupid, illiterate con moron, was that I don't care when you weep and wail about how MEAN and WRONG and FASCISTIC!!! it is when you are asked to support your position.


Why are all you cons always so unable to follow basic English?

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3 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

Nothing's going to change, regardless.  All outlawing abortion is going to "accomplish" is making the procedure less safe. 

 

Reversing RvW would change much, and drastically. People do unsafe things to themselves all the time, that's no justification for making an act legal.

 

 

5 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

I don't see that happening anytime soon.  But even if it did, overturning Roe would only accomplish turning the decision on abortion back to the states.  Most states, like most Americans, believe in a woman's right to choose (at least to some degree). 

 

I also agree with the right to choose, just much more limited than the current law.

 

 

6 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

Women who have their right to choose taken away would be forced to travel to get an abortion.  But travel they would, if they are financially able. 

 

Millions of women who now choose abortion for convenience would bring the child to term, or not get pregnant in the first place. But yes, some would travel.

 

 

7 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

"Born alive" is the legal standard for human rights.  That's unlikely to change anytime soon.  By forcing a woman to bear a child she doesn't want/can't afford, anti-choice legislation would giving a fetus more rights than a woman.  You or I don't have the right to live inside the body of another against their will.  How can you sanely want to give a fetus that "right?"    

 

You're constantly stating current legal standings. No one ever, EVER argues against the existence of the current law. We only argue that we think the law should be changed. Whether it's likely or not is yet to be seen.

 

And a woman accepts the possibility of another human taking up residence in her womb when she has sex. It's not a secret. If I rent a property to someone, they have a superior right to that property. I accept that they will have this right even though the property belongs to me. A woman engaging in sex accepts the potential for a similar sharing of her rights with her offspring.

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12 minutes ago, DemoMan said:

What I said, you poor, stupid, illiterate con moron, was that I don't care when you weep and wail about how MEAN and WRONG and FASCISTIC!!! it is when you are asked to support your position.


Why are all you cons always so unable to follow basic English?

 

Sorry, I don't continue conversations with abusive people like you. Go screech at someone else.

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2 minutes ago, SixShooter said:

 

Sorry, I don't continue conversations with abusive people like you. Go screech at someone else.

 

So you can't defend your position.  Not a surprise, but good that you finally admit it.

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3 minutes ago, DemoMan said:

So you can't defend your position.  Not a surprise, but good that you finally admit it.

 

I can defend it all day, and well, but not with someone like you.

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Just now, SixShooter said:

 

I can defend it all day, and well, but not with someone like you.

 

 

Yeah - you COULD but you didn't but you COULD but you won't but you COULD but you don't WANNA but you COULD but instead you lied and tried to play victim and ran around screaming about how FASCIST it was to be asked to do it and lied some more and now you are running away.

 

But you COULD.

:D  :D  :D 

 

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19 hours ago, DemoMan said:

 

 

And again you announce that fetuses aren't humans.

That's right.  It's a "category mistake" to talk in an unproblematic way about "humans" here, because there is a smooth, seamless transition from sperm-attached-to-egg, all the way to, say, you and me.

 

At one point along this transition, we start using the word "person". As a kind of courtesy, we extend it to newborns, but in reality they are far from being full-fledged "persons". This is why we are generally quite lenient with young mothers with post-partum depression who kill their infants. If they killed their ten-year-olds, we wouldn't be so lenient. The ten year old is really a "person", a "human", and the speechless helpless infant ... not so much.

 

Choosing when we think it's okay to kill the creature that is growing along this continuum is to some extent arbitrary.  We'll soon [decades not years] have the technology to allow the blastosphere to live and grow into a fully-fledged human being, completely outside the womb. So the criterion "ability to survive outside the womb" will have to be scrapped, to allow us to kill experimental embryos, as we do now.

 

The real criterion is this: how much do we identify with the thing we're thinking about killing?  The more it looks like us, the more squeamish we are about killing it. So we certainly don't want to deliberately kill a one week old baby (except as a necessity of war, of course), but we're lenient with the depressed mom who does so. But once it begins to walk and talk .... that is, once it begins to really be something we can identify with ... then it finally gets the extension of our protection.

 

This same reasoning also applies to our different attitudes towards killing chimpanzees, our genetic cousins, vs killing, say, rabbits.

 

By the way, I think that because I'm a conservative, you think I am anti-abortion. An easy mistake to make, but , I'm not.  In fact, I'd like to see a government policy that paid low-IQ and other genetically-deficient women serious money to have abortions (and of course pay them not to have offspring in the first place), just as I think we should pay high-IQ women to have as many children as possible. 

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16 minutes ago, Doug1943 said:

By the way, I think that because I'm a conservative, you think I am anti-abortion. An easy mistake to make, but , I'm not.  In fact, I'd like to see a government policy that paid low-IQ and other genetically-deficient women serious money to have abortions (and of course pay them not to have offspring in the first place), just as I think we should pay high-IQ women to have as many children as possible

 

.......Just like the good-ol'-days, huh??

 

 

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Oh yes, one more really important point, for the person who started this post:  it's extremely irresponsible to use the equation "abortion = murder".

 

It's this type of thinking that sends  religious loons out to kill abortion clinic medical personnel. After all, if I knew of some place where children were being taken and murdered, then I would feel a strong compulsion to destroy that place, and if necessary, kill the murderers of children working there. But we all know that fetuses are not children.

 

But if you actually believe that "abortion = murder" with no qualifications whatsoever ... then why aren't you killing the murderers? 

 

It's exactly the same argument that applies to the idiots who blabber that "Republicans are Nazis" ... well, if we are, then they should join anti-Fa and attack and even kill us.  But of course they don't ... they just don't care what they say, since they don't value clear thinking, not being able to sustain it themselves.

 

  But conservatives should not follow them in this.

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On 9/2/2017 at 5:11 PM, Doug1943 said:

Oh yes, one more really important point, for the person who started this post:  it's extremely irresponsible to use the equation "abortion = murder".

 

It's this type of thinking that sends  religious loons out to kill abortion clinic medical personnel. After all, if I knew of some place where children were being taken and murdered, then I would feel a strong compulsion to destroy that place, and if necessary, kill the murderers of children working there. But we all know that fetuses are not children.

 

But if you actually believe that "abortion = murder" with no qualifications whatsoever ... then why aren't you killing the murderers? 

 

It's exactly the same argument that applies to the idiots who blabber that "Republicans are Nazis" ... well, if we are, then they should join anti-Fa and attack and even kill us.  But of course they don't ... they just don't care what they say, since they don't value clear thinking, not being able to sustain it themselves.

 

  But conservatives should not follow them in this.

Tsk tsk...Liberals and their inflammatory remarks....The fact of the matter is that you cannot kill babies just out of convenience.  Its that simple.

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3 minutes ago, jrobin15283 said:

Tsk tsk...Liberals and their inflammatory remarks....The fact of the matter is that you cannot kill babies just out of convenience.  Its that simple.

 

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