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WillFranklin

So Who Are We Going To Support In 2020?

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On 6/4/2017 at 9:03 PM, bludog said:

Taking back the presidency is of utmost importance for the Democratic Party and the Nation

 

IMO, Hillary should not even be considered again. Without going into all her downsides, Hillary is very unpopular and at 69, too old. Biden is 74. Sherrod Brown 64. Bernie Sanders is 75. Elizabeth Warren 67. All fine Democrats but with, perhaps, less to excite younger voters.

 

Bernie Sanders could be the exception since he is very popular and a proven effective campaigner. But he would be 86 after 8 years; If he survives the stresses of the office. It's an undeniable fact that the human body and mind wears down with time.

 

 

Compare the ages of the above group to recent Democratic winners. History shows that Democrats do best with a younger candidate. When they first ran:-- FDR was 51 ... Truman 60 ... Kennedy was 43 ... Johnson 55 ... Carter 52 ... Clinton 46 ... Obama 47.

 

I believe we need younger candidates. Names that come to mind are Kirsten Gillibrand ... Tulsi Gabbard ... Corey Booker ... Amy Klobuchar ... Andrew Cuomo. These are possibilities but there's plenty of time for a candidate to pop out of nowhere like Barak Obama did in 2008.

 

 

 

Sherrod Brown is a fine Democrat with a Liberal voting record, but, IMO, too old, at 64, to motivate younger voters to the polls.

we need to look for candidates 35-40 age area

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I hope we can find great candidates who are younger. I haven't really seen them yet - most ones who seem less good or even not good like the seeming candidate being selected for the Obama centrist role coming up, Cory Booker. I'm sure he's getting his 'yes we can' try to hype the crowd speeches ready. I'm with Bernie until something changes. Warren the next pick.

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1 hour ago, desertloner said:

we need to look for candidates 35-40 age area

 

A crucial problem for the Democrats to solve, is how to motivate potential left wing voters to actually go to the polls and cast their votes.  If Democrats voted in the same numbers as Republicans we could start to take back political majorities again ....  State legislatures and governorships ....  Congress and the presidency.

 

History shows that younger, vigorous, appealing Democratic candidates attract more left of center and even undecideds to the polls.  That is one of the main keys to winning again.

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1 hour ago, Craig234 said:

I'm with Bernie until something changes. Warren the next pick.

 

Bernie seems to be something of an exception for his age.  His appeal is widespread and his communications skills, outstanding.  Yet, he is said to be planning to retire, which leads me to think that he feels his age but, wisely has kept his own council.  If elected, Bernie would be 86 at the end of eight years.  At the end, he would just be too feeble.  So far no one can beat father time.

 

Elizabeth Warren is a youthful 67.  If elected, at the end of eight years, she would be 78.  And IMO, Warren would not make nearly as formidable a candidate as Bernie.  But perhaps better than Hillary.

 

Bottom line.   Democrats need to search for highly qualified, younger candidates

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8 hours ago, WillFranklin said:

 

Yeah most Republicans are stuck in their ways and will NEVER change. It is the independents and swing voters we need to reach somehow. Maybe if they are worried about their health coverage.

 

My thoughts exactly. We need to sway the undecideds, moderates, etc. Most conservatives, at least from what I've witnessed, are stuck in their ways.

 

6 hours ago, kfbvoice said:

 

Really ? Most of what I read suggest that more people identify with Conservatism than Liberalism or the Center. Are there stats with links showing your claim ? Thanks.

 

My apologies, I misremembered. This is what I was thinking of: rapidly narrowing margins

 

If trends continue, liberals will outnumber conservatives soon, hopefully by continuously increasing amounts.

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6 hours ago, kfbvoice said:

 

Really ? Most of what I read suggest that more people identify with Conservatism than Liberalism or the Center. Are there stats with links showing your claim ? Thanks.

 I posted this in a thread on the no holds section:

 

I think about the changing demographics as well, and the affect they'll have on our political atmosphere. From the looks of it, we'll be a pretty strongly liberal country in a couple of decades, maybe sooner. The non-religious population of the U.S. is growing faster than any religion ever did (if you don't count violent imposition of beliefs), and as the population shifts away more and more from religion, we'll start to see a lot of the religious-based conservative votes fade away.

 

Looking at the statistics, it's hard to imagine the country isn't headed towards a highly-liberal future. According to Pew research, most of Trump's voters were white, Christian, male, and/or did not achieve education beyond high school. The largest percentage of whites in the U.S. are Baby Boomers or older; younger generations are far more diverse, with neomillennials (those under the age of 7) being the first generation where whites are actually not the majority

 

Non-whites are typically more likely to vote blue than red, which means this may become a huge contributing factor to politics once neomillennials reach voting age. As of 2015, Millennials outnumber Baby Boomers, though Baby Boomers are more likely to vote than Millennials, so we'll probably start seeing much more of the shift in the coming elections.

 

Education also has a lot to do with it. Those who have achieved education beyond a high school degree are more likely to be liberal or liberal-leaning. Millennials are the most educated generation in the history of the United States, and I feel that trend will continue with the neomillennials as well.

 

Even in the generations preceding Millennials, many people are letting go of traditionally conservative views and embracing views that have been typically liberal—just look at how many people now support same-sex marriage. (Anecdotal though this is, my parents are fine examples: they're Republicans who were against same-sex marriage until probably 4-5 years ago when they *gasp* made friends with a lesbian couple. Now, my parents are mostly supportive of LGBTQ rights and strongly support same-sex marriage, even though they both still strongly identify as Republicans.)

 

I think the hurdle for liberals is—even though we're no longer vastly outnumbered by conservatives—that liberal voters are much less likely to vote than conservative voters. If we can figure out why and resolve that issue, conservatives wouldn't have a chance in the polls (and no matter how hard they wish, 65M will always be a bigger number than 62M).

 

So basically, we're entering into a time where a lot of the white uneducated population is (to be morbid) starting to die out rather quickly, while a more diverse, more educated population is starting to take its place. Based on the evidence and statistics, it seems like it's only a matter of time before the country becomes a strong liberal majority.


 

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11 hours ago, bludog said:

 

Bottom line.   Democrats need to search for highly qualified, younger candidates

 

I hope that somebody comes along soon. There is so much at stake.

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12 hours ago, theHeathen said:

If trends continue, liberals will outnumber conservatives soon, hopefully by continuously increasing amounts.

 

Polls show that, even now, more people identify with Liberal ideas than Conservative ones.   And yes, the overwhelming trend is toward ever greater numbers of Liberal sympathizers.  The problem has been that Democrats don't vote in the numbers that Republicans do.  Democrats, as a whole, are not as committed to their cause as Republicans and don't participate equally in the democratic process.  Democrats, as a whole, are not as motivated to actually vote.

 

The result has been a national disaster.  The majority of state congresses and governors are Republican.  And every branch of the federal government is Republican dominated.

 

We MUST reverse this trend and we cannot depend on the geriatric wing of our party to have the energy, nerve and stamina to do it.

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14 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

Polls show that, even now, more people identify with Liberal ideas than Conservative ones.   And yes, the overwhelming trend is toward ever greater numbers of Liberal sympathizers.  The problem has been that Democrats don't vote in the numbers that Republicans do.  Democrats, as a whole, are not as committed to their cause as Republicans and don't participate equally in the democratic process.  Democrats, as a whole, are not as motivated to actually vote.

 

The result has been a national disaster.  The majority of state congresses and governors are Republican.  And every branch of the federal government is Republican dominated.

 

We MUST reverse this trend and we cannot depend on the geriatric wing of our party to have the energy, nerve and stamina to do it.

 

I hope that what has happened in the last election and what is happening in this country now  has woke up the democrats who didn't participate and maybe things can start to turn around in the next election. I can hope but I fear little will change

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4 hours ago, bludog said:

 

Polls show that, even now, more people identify with Liberal ideas than Conservative ones.   And yes, the overwhelming trend is toward ever greater numbers of Liberal sympathizers.  The problem has been that Democrats don't vote in the numbers that Republicans do.  Democrats, as a whole, are not as committed to their cause as Republicans and don't participate equally in the democratic process.  Democrats, as a whole, are not as motivated to actually vote.

 

The result has been a national disaster.  The majority of state congresses and governors are Republican.  And every branch of the federal government is Republican dominated.

 

We MUST reverse this trend and we cannot depend on the geriatric wing of our party to have the energy, nerve and stamina to do it.

 

That's right - a good question is why people support liberal policies but don't say they're liberals.

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3 hours ago, Arris said:

 

I hope that what has happened in the last election and what is happening in this country now  has woke up the democrats who didn't participate and maybe things can start to turn around in the next election. I can hope but I fear little will change

 

Democrats really needed to elect Bernie so we could get rid of the problem of people not liking things about the party.

 

Now we're in a harder spot because the media still has so many people not liking the party. It's not easy to build up national candidates. They demonize them as well.

 

I think Democrats are in a pretty good position for 2018/2020 because of the backlash.

The question is will they pick good people or not? We were in a good position in 2008 for backlash but picked a centrist (a progressive wasn't even running).

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I know that a lot of my "friends" on social media made rude comments to me when I declared my support for liberal candidates and policies. There is a stigma attached. And conservatives are rude about it.

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23 minutes ago, Craig234 said:

That's right - a good question is why people support liberal policies but don't say they're liberals.

 

12 minutes ago, WillFranklin said:

I know that a lot of my "friends" on social media made rude comments to me when I declared my support for liberal candidates and policies. There is a stigma attached. And conservatives are rude about it.

   

  People with ideas of egalitarianism are made to feel ashamed of their own convictions.     It's the insidious effect of the all-invasive Right Wing Noise Machine.   This is a crucial area where Big Money can actually buy peoples minds.   It is brainwashing on a national scale and the Democrats have little to counter it.  Joseph Goebbels would have been green with envy.

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5 minutes ago, bludog said:

 

   

  People with ideas of egalitarianism are made to feel ashamed of their own convictions.     It's the insidious effect of the all-invasive Right Wing Noise Machine.   This is a crucial area where Big Money can actually buy peoples minds.   It is brainwashing on a national scale and the Democrats have little to counter it.  Joseph Goebbels would have been green with envy.

 

It's true. I've long said that once people are seduced by ideology, it's not easy to break them out - for years, I often put a sig line of 'ideology is the enemy'. Human beings have a susceptibility to it. I've also long said that for the US, public opinion manipulation are the new weapons of war - the propaganda factory 'think tanks' and the media.

 

It's hard to even get people on the right to hear any messages from Democrats, much less consider them.

 

Look at this forum - we DO have the right reading messages, which is a lot of progress over the media situation generally.

 

Now can anyone point me to ONE right-winger this year changing their opinion on any of the thousands of times they're corrected on this forum?

 

This is how repetition is strong; and repetition costs money; which monetizes our democracy, which defeats our democracy, and that's what the right wants.

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19 hours ago, theHeathen said:

 I posted this in a thread on the no holds section:

 

I think about the changing demographics as well, and the affect they'll have on our political atmosphere. From the looks of it, we'll be a pretty strongly liberal country in a couple of decades, maybe sooner. The non-religious population of the U.S. is growing faster than any religion ever did (if you don't count violent imposition of beliefs), and as the population shifts away more and more from religion, we'll start to see a lot of the religious-based conservative votes fade away.

 

Looking at the statistics, it's hard to imagine the country isn't headed towards a highly-liberal future. According to Pew research, most of Trump's voters were white, Christian, male, and/or did not achieve education beyond high school. The largest percentage of whites in the U.S. are Baby Boomers or older; younger generations are far more diverse, with neomillennials (those under the age of 7) being the first generation where whites are actually not the majority

 

Non-whites are typically more likely to vote blue than red, which means this may become a huge contributing factor to politics once neomillennials reach voting age. As of 2015, Millennials outnumber Baby Boomers, though Baby Boomers are more likely to vote than Millennials, so we'll probably start seeing much more of the shift in the coming elections.

 

Education also has a lot to do with it. Those who have achieved education beyond a high school degree are more likely to be liberal or liberal-leaning. Millennials are the most educated generation in the history of the United States, and I feel that trend will continue with the neomillennials as well.

 

Even in the generations preceding Millennials, many people are letting go of traditionally conservative views and embracing views that have been typically liberal—just look at how many people now support same-sex marriage. (Anecdotal though this is, my parents are fine examples: they're Republicans who were against same-sex marriage until probably 4-5 years ago when they *gasp* made friends with a lesbian couple. Now, my parents are mostly supportive of LGBTQ rights and strongly support same-sex marriage, even though they both still strongly identify as Republicans.)

 

I think the hurdle for liberals is—even though we're no longer vastly outnumbered by conservatives—that liberal voters are much less likely to vote than conservative voters. If we can figure out why and resolve that issue, conservatives wouldn't have a chance in the polls (and no matter how hard they wish, 65M will always be a bigger number than 62M).

 

So basically, we're entering into a time where a lot of the white uneducated population is (to be morbid) starting to die out rather quickly, while a more diverse, more educated population is starting to take its place. Based on the evidence and statistics, it seems like it's only a matter of time before the country becomes a strong liberal majority.


 

  •  

 Thanks for the links...

 

A few things do concern me about educated people being more liberal leaning. 

 

Are these people liberal only on social and cultural issues rather than economic and political issues ?

 

If less educated lower income people are voting to the right for the GOP that's a problem because they have the most to lose from rightwing policies that exacerbate economic inequality. Liberals should be concerned about these voters because they have so much to gain from Single Payer Healthcare, a Minimum Wage increase, fair trade policies and the like. Meanwhile social liberals might oppose these things while being pro choice on abortion, supporting LGBTQ Rights, and stopping global warming. We need educated people to support a left political and economic agenda as well as social issues. We also have to reach less educated lower income people who have the most to gain from left economic agenda. This bright liberal future is not assured unless we fight for economic and social issues both around a message of common ground.   

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I still was vocal about my beliefs despite their terrorism. Some of them unfriended me. Good riddance to intolerant rubbish.

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44 minutes ago, WillFranklin said:

We can't blow it in 2020. Trump is a disaster.

 

The big question is whether we'll waste the backlash with a centrist, or put a progressive in.

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On 6/4/2017 at 9:25 PM, WillFranklin said:

I think we need an exciting candidate to unseat Trump in 2020. Who do you think that could be? Sherrod Brown from Ohio? Joe Biden?

 

Trump should be vulnerable. But we might be making a mistake if we put Hillary up against him again.

 

We will be up against Pence so we need to dirty him up and expose his crimes. 

 

I like Elizabeth Warren.  

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10 hours ago, Craig234 said:

 

The big question is whether we'll waste the backlash with a centrist, or put a progressive in.

 

We need a progressive like Sherrod Brown.

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7 hours ago, RussianDisinformation said:

 

We will be up against Pence so we need to dirty him up and expose his crimes. 

 

I like Elizabeth Warren.  

 

Yes Pence is dirty.

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2 hours ago, Craig234 said:

Democrats should be linking Pence to trump now all the time so that Pence can't be 'clean' when trump is out of office.

 

YES! Just like in New Jersey the Lt. Governor was linked to Christie and lost the election Tuesday.

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Good News! A poll just came out that shows Biden would beat Trump in an election for President! And a generic Democrat would do even better!

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/15/biden-trump-2020-elections-244900

 

Only 35 percent of voters would choose to reelect Trump in 2020, the poll shows — substantially fewer than the 46 percent who would vote instead for Biden, who said Monday that he is “not closing the door” on a third attempt at the presidency in 2020. One in 5 voters are undecided.

 

Biden’s 11-point margin is actually smaller than the poll’s previous question, in which voters are asked whether they will vote to reelect Trump, or for a generic Democrat. The generic Democrat leads Trump, 48 percent to 34 percent, the poll shows.

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Like I said - a Democrat has a good chance; the question is whether we'll pick a centrist or a progressive. Biden is a centrist, but he has the party name-recognition that would make him a favorite just like Hillary.

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