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So Who Are We Going To Support In 2020?

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50 minutes ago, Mindy09 said:

At least we can all agree that Hillary running would probably send me into a very deep depression.  

 

Looks like we are finally clear of her. Hope I didn't speak too soon.

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ExPDXer’s official (and almost meaningful) views on the candidates.

These are just preliminary impressions. It is still early, so I reserve the right to change my opinion, and rankings.

 

#1 Sen. Bernie Sanders – On the policy side, there is not much I disagree with, except allowing incarcerated prisoners the right to vote. I understand the principle, but US prisons are highly corrupt atmospheres. The potential for fraud is too high. He’s got good shot at taking NH, giving him early momentum, a strong grassroots base, and enough small donor cash to campaign very effectively.

 

#2 Sen. Elizabeth Warren – She has been on a roll for the last few weeks, and I am considering supporting her more than I have been. Kudos for principled stand on impeachment, and double kudos for releasing very detailed economic policy proposals. I reserve the right to quibble over the details, but at least there are details.

 

#3 Gov. Jay Inslee – The ‘eco’ Governor from Washington State has said unequivocally and forcefully that defeating climate change has to be the number one priority. This makes him a one-issue candidate, but it is an important issue to me. His gubernatorial record, and experience make him qualified for the job he is seeking. Lack of media attention, and name recognition will probably doom his prospects, however.

 

#4 Sen. Kamala Harris – Makes my top 4 list. Fills in all the right boxes for a campaign based on identity politics. Good chance of winning SC primary. A little too cautious on debate stage – “we should really have that discussion” is not an answer to questions about important issues

 

Mayor Pete Buttigieg – For reasons unknown to me, Mayor Pete is getting a lot of attention. He appears to be an intelligent man, but lacks specific policy positions on environment, economics, or foreign policy.  I will wait for more information, but deciding to run for president before deciding where he stands on issues does not sit well with me.

 

Sen. Cory Booker – Another impressive speaker, but he doesn’t seem to be working very hard thus far. The 2020 general election will be a very difficult, and challenging for Democrats. Having an effective organization , & apparatus will be important. Past relationships with Big Pharma, and Wall St. hurt his credibility on healthcare, and economic issues.

 

Beto O’Rourke – Very effective debater, and bilingual speaker. Has a strong grassroots base of support, and plenty of small donor cash. He is definitely not a progressive candidate. Moderate primary voters will flock to him if Biden slips up.

 

Joe Biden – One (hyphenated)word: Glass-Steagal. “I’ll be blunt with you: the only vote I can think of that I’ve ever cast in my years in the Senate that I regret—and I did it out of loyalty, and I wasn’t aware that it was gonna be as bad as it was—was Glass-Steagall.” The 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, which once separated commercial and investment banking, partially facilitated the 2008 financial crisis.

 

Loyalty to who? I regret his vote as well. Doe he not he regret his vote on AUMF:

"I will vote for the Lieberman-Warner amendment to authorize (W. Bush) the use of military force against Iraq," Biden said in October 2002."I do not believe this is a rush to war. I believe it is a march to peace and security."*  I will vote for him if his is the nominee, but I would rather not have to hold my nose again.

 

* 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths US troops incurred 4,424 total deaths and 31,952 wounded in action (WIA) as a result of the Iraq War.

 

 

 



 

 

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On 4/29/2019 at 11:15 AM, ExPDXer said:

ExPDXer’s official (and almost meaningful) views on the candidates.

These are just preliminary impressions. It is still early, so I reserve the right to change my opinion, and rankings.

 

#1 Sen. Bernie Sanders – On the policy side, there is not much I disagree with, except allowing incarcerated prisoners the right to vote. I understand the principle, but US prisons are highly corrupt atmospheres. The potential for fraud is too high. He’s got good shot at taking NH, giving him early momentum, a strong grassroots base, and enough small donor cash to campaign very effectively.

 

#2 Sen. Elizabeth Warren – She has been on a roll for the last few weeks, and I am considering supporting her more than I have been. Kudos for principled stand on impeachment, and double kudos for releasing very detailed economic policy proposals. I reserve the right to quibble over the details, but at least there are details.

 

#3 Gov. Jay Inslee – The ‘eco’ Governor from Washington State has said unequivocally and forcefully that defeating climate change has to be the number one priority. This makes him a one-issue candidate, but it is an important issue to me. His gubernatorial record, and experience make him qualified for the job he is seeking. Lack of media attention, and name recognition will probably doom his prospects, however.

 

#4 Sen. Kamala Harris – Makes my top 4 list. Fills in all the right boxes for a campaign based on identity politics. Good chance of winning SC primary. A little too cautious on debate stage – “we should really have that discussion” is not an answer to questions about important issues

 

Mayor Pete Buttigieg – For reasons unknown to me, Mayor Pete is getting a lot of attention. He appears to be an intelligent man, but lacks specific policy positions on environment, economics, or foreign policy.  I will wait for more information, but deciding to run for president before deciding where he stands on issues does not sit well with me.

 

Sen. Cory Booker – Another impressive speaker, but he doesn’t seem to be working very hard thus far. The 2020 general election will be a very difficult, and challenging for Democrats. Having an effective organization , & apparatus will be important. Past relationships with Big Pharma, and Wall St. hurt his credibility on healthcare, and economic issues.

 

Beto O’Rourke – Very effective debater, and bilingual speaker. Has a strong grassroots base of support, and plenty of small donor cash. He is definitely not a progressive candidate. Moderate primary voters will flock to him if Biden slips up.

 

Joe Biden – One (hyphenated)word: Glass-Steagal. “I’ll be blunt with you: the only vote I can think of that I’ve ever cast in my years in the Senate that I regret—and I did it out of loyalty, and I wasn’t aware that it was gonna be as bad as it was—was Glass-Steagall.” The 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, which once separated commercial and investment banking, partially facilitated the 2008 financial crisis.

 

Loyalty to who? I regret his vote as well. Doe he not he regret his vote on AUMF:

"I will vote for the Lieberman-Warner amendment to authorize (W. Bush) the use of military force against Iraq," Biden said in October 2002."I do not believe this is a rush to war. I believe it is a march to peace and security."*  I will vote for him if his is the nominee, but I would rather not have to hold my nose again.

 

* 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths US troops incurred 4,424 total deaths and 31,952 wounded in action (WIA) as a result of the Iraq War.

 

 

 



 

 

 

 

It infuriates me how we were lied to in 2001 and sent to war soon after.

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1 hour ago, WillFranklin said:

Looks like we are going with Biden. All aboard.

 

If Biden becomes our candidate, I will vote for him.  As president, there isn't a shadow of a doubt he would be a towering improvement over what we have now. 

 

That said, he is carrying a twentieth century voting record into the twenty first.  He's has a long record of supporting the "war on drugs".  He voted to let the states overturn Roe V Wade.  And most recently, he campaigned for Michigan Republican, Fred Upton.  I do not support Biden in the primaries.

 

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1 hour ago, bludog said:

 

If Biden becomes our candidate, I will vote for him.  As president, there isn't a shadow of a doubt he would be a towering improvement over what we have now. 

 

That said, he is carrying a twentieth century voting record into the twenty first.  He's has a long record of supporting the "war on drugs".  He voted to let the states overturn Roe V Wade.  And most recently, he campaigned for Michigan Republican, Fred Upton.  I do not support Biden in the primaries.

 

 

Thank you for continuing to give me insight into how others are feeling in the party.

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22 hours ago, bludog said:

That said, he is carrying a twentieth century voting record into the twenty first.

 

Now that I'm getting...more experienced...I have a better appreciation for politicians with long track records.    In '89 when Biden was calling for tougher enforcement of drug laws, what was Buttigieg's position?  He was 7 at the time!  It's not a fair criticism for 2019 newcomers to compare their 2019 positions to the Biden of 30 years ago.  I accept his apologies for past mistakes.  It's easy to point fingers at what people did back in the 20th century, but I believe his positions have evolved and, over the last decade, he's shown himself as a more progressive person. 

 

After 4 years of craziness, I'd be fine with Biden.   I like safe and predictable.  

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33 minutes ago, Renegade said:

I accept his apologies for past mistakes.

 

The only apology Biden has struggled with are about stroking women's hair, and otherwise getting too familiar.  But he hasn't apologized for his past political position, at all.

 

33 minutes ago, Renegade said:

I believe his positions have evolved and, over the last decade, he's shown himself as a more progressive person.  

 

Where is the evidence?   Only this year, he lavished praise on Republican, Fred Upton

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/us/politics/biden-speech-fred-upton.html

Quote

Joe Biden’s Paid Speech Buoyed the G.O.P. in Midwest Battleground

  • Joseph R. Biden Jr. swept into Benton Harbor, Mich., three weeks before the November elections, in the midst of his quest to reclaim the Midwest for Democrats. He took the stage at Lake Michigan College as Representative Fred Upton, a long-serving Republican from the area, faced the toughest race of his career.

But Mr. Biden was not there to denounce Mr. Upton. Instead, he was collecting $200,000 from the Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan to address a Republican-leaning audience, according to a speaking contract obtained by The New York Times and interviews with organizers. The group, a business-minded civic organization, is supported in part by an Upton family foundation.

Mr. Biden stunned Democrats and elated Republicans by praising Mr. Upton while the lawmaker looked on from the audience. Alluding to Mr. Upton’s support for a landmark medical-research law, Mr. Biden called him a champion in the fight against cancer — and “one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with.”

Mr. Biden’s remarks, coming amid a wide-ranging discourse on American politics, quickly appeared in Republican advertising. The local Democratic Party pleaded with Mr. Biden to repair what it saw as a damaging error, to no avail. On Nov. 6, Mr. Upton defeated his Democratic challenger by four and a half percentage points.

<snip>

 

33 minutes ago, Renegade said:

After 4 years of craziness, I'd be fine with Biden.   I like safe and predictable.   

 

Maybe not as safe or predictable on his own, as he was during the vice-presidency.
 

 

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1 hour ago, bludog said:

The only apology Biden has struggled with are about stroking women's hair, and otherwise getting too familiar.  But he hasn't apologized for his past political position, at all.

 

Here's an example of what I consider to be a Biden apology from 2008 (emphasis added):  "Many have argued that this 100-to-1 disparity is arbitrary, unnecessary, and unjust, and I agree. And I might say at the outset in full disclosure, I am the guy that drafted this legislation years ago with a guy named Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who was the senator from New York at the time. And crack was new. It was a new “epidemic” that we were facing. And we had at that time extensive medical testimony talking about the particularly addictive nature of crack versus powder cocaine. And the school of thought was that we had to do everything we could to dissuade the use of crack cocaine. And so I am part of the problem that I have been trying to solve since then, because I think the disparity is way out of line."  Senate Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs

 

1 hour ago, bludog said:

Only this year, he lavished praise on Republican, Fred Upton

 

I don't have a clue about Fred Upton.   Was he a "champion in the fight against cancer"?   If he was, is it wrong to say so?  

 

This is a quote from the article you linked:  

Quote

There is no evidence Mr. Biden was motivated to praise the lawmaker by anything other than sincere admiration, stemming from Mr. Upton’s role in crafting the 21st Century Cures Act after the death of Mr. Biden’s elder son, Beau, from cancer in 2015.

 

Bill Russo, a spokesman for Mr. Biden, said the research-funding legislation was the foundation of Mr. Biden’s relationship with Mr. Upton.

“It was one of the few bipartisan bills passed in an otherwise deeply divided and gridlocked Congress,” Mr. Russo said. “Vice President Biden believes to his core that you can disagree politically on a lot and still work together in good faith on issues of common cause — like funding cancer research.”

 

I may not be typical, but this sort of independence and willingness to work across party lines actually increases Biden's appeal to me.  I'm not attracted to partisans or ideologues of any stripe.  Governing a nation (properly) requires cooperation, compromise, and practical decisions.

 

I'm not saying I'm committed to Biden.  It's too early and I don't know enough about the others.  But, if I had to vote today...

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1 hour ago, Renegade said:

 

 

I'm not saying I'm committed to Biden.  It's too early and I don't know enough about the others.  But, if I had to vote today...

 

I am still with Biden. Nothing anyone has said has turned me away.

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1 hour ago, Renegade said:

Here's an example of what I consider to be a Biden apology from 2008 (emphasis added):  "Many have argued that this 100-to-1 disparity is arbitrary, unnecessary, and unjust, and I agree. And I might say at the outset in full disclosure, I am the guy that drafted this legislation years ago with a guy named Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who was the senator from New York at the time. And crack was new. It was a new “epidemic” that we were facing. And we had at that time extensive medical testimony talking about the particularly addictive nature of crack versus powder cocaine. And the school of thought was that we had to do everything we could to dissuade the use of crack cocaine. And so I am part of the problem that I have been trying to solve since then, because I think the disparity is way out of line."  Senate Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs

 

Fair enough.  Another thing in Biden's favor, from my point of view is his pro-labor union voting record and union affiliations.

 

1 hour ago, Renegade said:

I may not be typical, but this sort of independence and willingness to work across party lines actually increases Biden's appeal to me.  I'm not attracted to partisans or ideologues of any stripe.  Governing a nation (properly) requires cooperation, compromise, and practical decisions.

 

I agree with you about the virtue of a candidate's ability to work across party lines.  And Biden has that skill. 

 

But supporting a Republican running against a perfectly fine Democratic candidate, is going a bridge too far.  In my book, It is outrageous.  With Biden's help, Upton now occupies a seat, representing one more regressive, Republican vote in the House of Representatives.

 

At the time of Biden's speech, Upton was running against Democrat, Dr Matt Longjohn:
https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan's_6th_Congressional_District_election,_2018

Quote

<snip>

Matt has spent his entire career creating and running large community health programs that have improved the lives of millions of children, families and seniors. Most recently, Matt served as the National Health Officer for the YMCA, one of the nation’s oldest and largest charities. He was the first physician leader in the Y’s 170-year history, and ran community health programs to improve health, reduce costs and create jobs. One of these programs reduced new cases of diabetes by up to 71%, and will save Medicare $1.9 billion over 10 years by employing thousands of community health workers to help their neighbors live healthier lives. He and his team supported local community work in Augusta, Benton Harbor, St. Joseph, Kalamazoo, and 250 other cities across the nation, positively impacting 73 million people.

Earlier in his career, Matt led an innovative coalition in Chicago, which helped inform First Lady Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move” campaign and inspired the creation of Healthy Kids Healthy Michigan.

<snip>

 

It's still very early in the Democratic primary, of course, and I could still change my mind.  And as I said, I will vote for Biden, in any case, should he become our candidate.  Right now, I support Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.  I have contributed to the campaigns of both. 

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The voting record is the most accurate measure of how a representative truly feels about issues. It’s where true leadership, (or true weakness) is tested, and recorded. That’s why I give it so much weight. The main reason that I vote for any candidate is to represent my views, or in other words vote the same way I would on critical decisions. It’s their only function. Everyone has their own definition of critical. Going to war is one of mine.

 

I grew up in a Military family.  Although I did not choose to serve, others in my family chose a different path.Arlington National Cemetery, is located across the river from the WH, and Congress (for a very good reason). I understand memories fade, but I have particularly acute memories of the AUMF vote that probably will not fade anytime soon. It's not my only issue, but it takes more than a statement of regret to overcome.

 

Everyone has their own unique experiences, and list of issues important to their lives, so I respect, expect, and appreciate other views. AUMF, Glass-Steagall, Dodd-Frank, Citizens United, and Supreme Court votes, were historic events that changed the direction of the country, IMHO.

 

The Voting record is the most accurate measure of how a representative truly feels about issues. It’s where true leadership, (or true weakness) is tested, and recorded. That’s why I give it so much weight, over sound bites, or political ads, or what people (like me) say on the internet.

 

Candidate Warren on Candidate Biden:

“Our disagreement is a matter of public record. When the biggest financial institutions in this country were trying to put the squeeze on millions of hardworking families who were in bankruptcy because of medical problems, job losses, divorce and death in the family, there was nobody to stand up for them. I got in that fight because they just didn’t have anyone, and Joe Biden was on the side of credit-card companies.”

 

Well, the public (congressional) record is available, and it’s a very good source of information, and enlightening.

 

Here is the exchange between (then)Sen. Biden, and (then) Harvard Law Professor Elizabeth Warren on that Bankruptcy bill, after the collapse of Enron. It's a respectful, informative economic debate ... Judge for yourself the very good points made by both candidates.

 

Senator BIDEN. Is the colleague suggesting that the Delaware chancery court is not open, is somehow an unfair court? I find it outrageous such a statement. Maybe you can tell me. Is it not a competent court? Is it not an open court?

Ms. WARREN. Are you asking me, Senator?

Senator BIDEN. Well, yes. You are the one that said ‘‘escape the obligation of making the process open.’’

Ms. WARREN. Actually, Senator, bankruptcy cases are not heard in Delaware chancery court.

Senator BIDEN. Excuse me, in Delaware, in Delaware. Bankruptcy courts in Delaware are not open?

Ms. WARREN. They are not open to employees of companies like Enron who cannot afford—

Senator BIDEN. In what sense do you mean open?

Ms. WARREN. Excuse me, Senator?

Senator BIDEN. In what sense do you mean open? The record is not open or they can’t conveniently get there?

Ms. WARREN. Employees of companies like Enron literally cannot go to Delaware and hire local counsel, which the Delaware bankruptcy court requires of them before they can make an appearance, and that effectively cuts thousands of small employees, pensioners and local trade creditors out of the bankruptcy process. If they can’t afford it, they are not there.

Senator BIDEN. No. Forget bankruptcy. I am asking a larger question. Forget about bankruptcy.

Ms. WARREN. But that is what I mean. It is the question of what role bankruptcy plays—

Senator BIDEN. That is not my question. I would like you to answer my question. Who should be responsible for taking them out from under that crushing burden? Whose responsibility is it? That is really the question, because if you buy into this argument, which is very compelling, in my view, you are saying the creditors should be the ones to buy into that philosophically, enshrined in a piece of legislation obligation. That is my question.

Ms. WARREN. Senator, I think you are exactly right, and that is that we need fewer families to need to turn to the bankruptcy system. We have a broken health care finance system in the United States, and all I can do is point out that it is bankrupting families.

Senator BIDEN. Absolutely right.

Ms. WARREN. Until we fix the broken health care finance system, those families have to turn somewhere and that means now they turn as a last-ditch effort to the bankruptcy courts.

Senator BIDEN. And that means they turn to asking the people that they borrowed money from to pay for their health care costs, right?

Ms. WARREN. Senator, the costs—

Senator BIDEN. Isn’t that literally correct?

Ms. WARREN. It is literally correct that the costs of a broken health care system are borne throughout the economy.

Senator BIDEN. I would like to put in the record a Forbes article, and I would like to ask you whether it is an accurate quote, Professor. They quote you in an article entitled ‘‘Everybody Knows It’s Credit’’ in Forbes magazine saying, quote, ‘‘The lobbyists are going to be the only ones who really profit, scoffs Elizabeth Warren, Harvard Law professor. I submit this for the record, if I may.

Chairman SPECTER. Without objection.

Senator KENNEDY. Can Professor Warren just respond to the quote? Do you want to just respond to the quote?

Ms. WARREN. I think the Senator makes an entirely fair point about externalizing the costs and I would add only one caveat to it. Not only does this bill treat all debtors alike. In many ways, it treats all creditors alike. The gas company doesn’t have the capacity to change its pricing to reflect these risks, or has very limited capacity. But I remind you of what the credit card companies have already-…..

Senator BIDEN. Should it? That applies they should.

Ms. WARREN. No.

Senator BIDEN. Should the gas company be required to change their prices to reflect these?

Ms. WARREN. No. Of course, they shouldn’t, Senator.

Senator BIDEN. The way you stated it, you said they don’t have the capacity. The implication is maybe they should have that capacity.

Ms. WARREN. No. My point is the losses will go to some creditors who cannot reflect this in their prices. But look at the cases cited in my testimony where credit card companies—I have a specific case, In re McCarthy, but nothing unusual about it, a woman who borrowed $2,200. She paid back $2,100 over the 2 years preceding bankruptcy, and at the end of that period of time she was told she still owed $2,600. With fees and interest, I submit, Senator, that there are many in the credit industry right now who are getting their bankruptcies prepaid; that is, they have squeezed enough out of these families in interest and fees and payments that never paid down principle.

Senator BIDEN. Maybe we should talk about usury rates, then. Maybe that is what we should be talking about, not bankruptcy.

Ms. WARREN. Senator, I will be the first. Invite me.

Senator BIDEN. I know you will, but let’s call a spade a spade. Your problem with credit card companies is usury rates from your position. It is not about the bankruptcy bill

Ms. WARREN. But, Senator, if you are not going to fix that problem, you can’t take away the last shred or protection from these families.

Senator BIDEN. I got it, okay. You are very good, Professor. [Laughter.]

Senator BIDEN. May I be excused, Mr. Chairman? I am going to another tsunami hearing.

Chairman SPECTER. We will miss you.

 

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On 5/1/2019 at 10:41 AM, WillFranklin said:

Looks like we are going with Biden. All aboard.

I sincerely hope not.  I think he's going to have all of the same vulnerabilities on the campaign trail that Hillary had.  He offers nothing to the MAGA voters who may not like Trump, but really need some help, some sort of change.  There are a lot of MAGA voters out there who are not racist lunatics, they're just scared and desperate.  If they don't perceive a real alternative to Trump, I would be worried they'll stay home or vote Trump again.  The DNC has to do something interesting or it's going to go nowhere.

 

Biden is safe?  No.  Biden is boring.  And Biden looks like everything that was repudiated in that vote of no confidence we call the 2016 election.

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7 minutes ago, splunch said:

I sincerely hope not.  I think he's going to have all of the same vulnerabilities on the campaign trail that Hillary had.  He offers nothing to the MAGA voters who may not like Trump, but really need some help, some sort of change.  There are a lot of MAGA voters out there who are not racist lunatics, they're just scared and desperate.  If they don't perceive a real alternative to Trump, I would be worried they'll stay home or vote Trump again.  The DNC has to do something interesting or it's going to go nowhere.

 

Biden is safe?  No.  Biden is boring.  And Biden looks like everything that was repudiated in that vote of no confidence we call the 2016 election.

 

Montana's Governor just got in. What do you think of him?

 

Meanwhile Biden would trounce Trump in Pennsylvania,

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/443856-poll-biden-leads-trump-by-double-digits-in-pennsylvania

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22 hours ago, WillFranklin said:

Montana's Governor just got in. What do you think of him?

There is some real danger that he will eat into Gillibrand's 0% share.

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42 minutes ago, ExPDXer said:

There is some real danger that he will eat into Gillibrand's 0% share.

 

Sounds reasonable.

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I've yet to see any reason I should support Joe Biden other than "He's not Donald Trump!" which is a quality shared by all the other Democratic Candidates, and they have more going for them than that.  He's a corporate stooge who supports Republicans over Democrats.  If America were anything like the rest of the world, he'd be a right-wing candidate.  I'd really have to hold my nose to vote for him, and I voted for Hillary with no problem.  

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On 5/16/2019 at 9:14 PM, Cecelia said:

I've yet to see any reason I should support Joe Biden other than "He's not Donald Trump!" which is a quality shared by all the other Democratic Candidates, and they have more going for them than that.  He's a corporate stooge who supports Republicans over Democrats.  If America were anything like the rest of the world, he'd be a right-wing candidate.  I'd really have to hold my nose to vote for him, and I voted for Hillary with no problem.  

 

Then please do hold your nose so we can end the reign of terror.

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33 minutes ago, WillFranklin said:

 

Then please do hold your nose so we can end the reign of terror.

LOL

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3 hours ago, WillFranklin said:

Then please do hold your nose so we can end the reign of terror.

 

Really puts it into perspective.   ^   ^   ^

 

We simply don't have the luxury of rejecting the imperfect at the risk of re-electing the unthinkable.   That said, Biden's early name-recognition and initial popularity could easily turn out to be a chimera.  We'll know a lot more after the first two debates.

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10 hours ago, bludog said:

We simply don't have the luxury of rejecting the imperfect at the risk of re-electing the unthinkable.   That said, Biden's early name-recognition and initial popularity could easily turn out to be a chimera.  We'll know a lot more after the first two debates.

 

Yes, it's too early to stifle debate.  We've got plenty of time to gradually narrow the field.  Even though Biden is my preferred candidate (so far), I'd doubt he'll be the nominee.

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On 5/27/2019 at 10:08 AM, WillFranklin said:

 

Then please do hold your nose so we can end the reign of terror.


If the best you have to offer is that Donald Trump is worse, that's a sign your candidate is NOT a good candidate.  My dogs are better candidates than Donald Trump.  You are NOT going to win voters over this way, and neither is Republican-Lite Joe Biden.

I want an actual good candidate.  I'm not looking for Perfection.  But actually liberal would be a good starting point.

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:30 PM, WillFranklin said:

2020 is a must-win for us. I am worried about it already.

 

Nominating Biden who voted for the iraq war may not be a good choice. Trump will use Biden's support for the Iraq war all the way to the white house for a second term.

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What does Biden offer that the other candidates don't?

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