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laripu

Why we have Trump

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Sanders has more legislative experience and that's important. Moreover the fact that Hillary was more educated I don't think made her smarter. And while Hillary was more policy oriented Sanders made clear and sensible arguments that resonated with many people who voted for Trump or just stayed home. But maybe I'm being subjective too. Thanks for your comments.

 

Sanders had more time in the legislature. That's different than legislative experience. With his holier-than-thou attitude, he didn't craft and pass legislation.

 

I did not hear sensible arguments from Sanders. I hear very thin platitudes that had no substance repeated over and over and over. And a lot of populist demagoguery to boot.

 

Bill

Donna Brazile used her position at CNN, and passed some potential debate questions to Hillary Clinton.

 

Like the heads up that there would be a question about the Flint water crisis at the debate that was held in Flint? Quelle suprise!

 

How about the Sanders campaign stealing Clinton campaign documents? How about the death threats to the State Democratic official in Nevada?

 

Bill

Why we will continue to lose: Because some people can't get over 2016.

 

Obsession is bad for the Democratic party and the cause of liberals, regardless of party.

More of the same is bad for the Democratic party and the cause of liberals, regardless of party.

The old Democratic party establishment is bad for the Democratic party and the cause of liberals, regardless of party.

 

Are you over 2016? I'm not.

 

I have to live with Donald Trump thanks to so-called "liberals" who didn't vote. And that's a disaster.

 

I took a vacation from this forum and while I was gone the attack on Democrats and HRC continued unabated. The attack on liberalism is coming from the leftist fringe which has proved to be a dangerous enemy of progress.

 

Bill

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I'm the most alterest kocker in the room. Makes me head alter kocker. When I look in the mirror, I see one, used up cocker :P .

 

I give great intellectual ability a place in the pantheon of attributes for a leader. But beyond a certain modicum, it's hardly the most important thing. Very often a leader with vision relies on a team of underlings that might have many abilities she/he doesn't. Of very high value is the ability to spot true talent and delegate authority effectively. And someone with exceptional intellect might not necessarily be good at that. I value compassion, not necessarily worn on one's sleeve, but demonstrated by action. And communication skills which enable reaching people in all walks of life, is important. There are very many subtleties and intangibles that come together in any one person.

 

Hillary may have had superior academic attainment than Bernie. She may be more intelligent, as measured by tests. If true, I wouldn't hold that against Bernie at all. I think his ideas are superior to hers. And I like the way he communicates them. Although his window is now closed, I thought Bernie would be great at delegating power on the long road to accomplishing his vision. There is some evidence, from her failed health care plan, that Hillary, despite her command of detail and broad knowledge, might be somewhat deficient when it comes to managing people.

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Sanders had more time in the legislature. That's different than legislative experience. With his holier-than-thou attitude, he didn't craft and pass legislation.

 

I did not hear sensible arguments from Sanders. I hear very thin platitudes that had no substance repeated over and over and over. And a lot of populist demagoguery to boot.

 

Bill

 

Like the heads up that there would be a question about the Flint water crisis at the debate that was held in Flint? Quelle suprise!

 

How about the Sanders campaign stealing Clinton campaign documents? How about the death threats to the State Democratic official in Nevada?

 

Bill

 

Are you over 2016? I'm not.

 

I have to live with Donald Trump thanks to so-called "liberals" who didn't vote. And that's a disaster.

 

I took a vacation from this forum and while I was gone the attack on Democrats and HRC continued unabated. The attack on liberalism is coming from the leftist fringe which has proved to be a dangerous enemy of progress.

 

Bill

with this I respectfully disagree.

 

Sanders did use platitudes but they were platitudes that point at the underlying truth. You need a government than can borrow to grow an economy using debt when interest rates are at an all time low. We spend far too much on prison and not nearly enough on education and real change concerning renewable green energy. Healthcare for all makes economical sense, saves lives and money overall. If you have the grades and the willpower to go to a public university why should it not be paid for by the government, and it can be paid for by taxing wall street speculative transactions, this has been shown in the EU - it works.

 

Clinton only showed that there are forces that work against the best policy and that one must be a centrist to incrementally make change - that is her effort, however that was the Obama effort as well.

 

We all live with Trump now, we all detest it just as much as you do Bill, maybe even more. I voted for Hillary, as did Chomsky. Chomsky who doesn't typically ever favor any of the democrats because he doesn't see that much difference between them and the republicans, Chomsky did not only vote for Clinton after Sanders left the race, he actually supported her. Why, because Trump is a nightmare. That's why!

 

The nightmare is a pronounced lack of any government at all, in fact a wrecking of anything good government could ever offer. So there you have it, one extreme which is Trump, a center which represents very incremental progress, and a person who maybe isn't that great at describing policy, yet who is correct with his so-called platitudes - A Bernie Sanders type guy you can at least trust.

 

And I wanted a push far too the left because I know as well as anyone that we have been pushed too far to the right for the last thirty to forty years. And you can take that much to the bank !

 

Peace!

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Sanders had more time in the legislature. That's different than legislative experience. With his holier-than-thou attitude, he didn't craft and pass legislation.

 

I did not hear sensible arguments from Sanders. I hear very thin platitudes that had no substance repeated over and over and over. And a lot of populist demagoguery to boot.

 

Bill

 

Like the heads up that there would be a question about the Flint water crisis at the debate that was held in Flint? Quelle suprise!

 

How about the Sanders campaign stealing Clinton campaign documents? How about the death threats to the State Democratic official in Nevada?

 

Bill

 

Are you over 2016? I'm not.

 

I have to live with Donald Trump thanks to so-called "liberals" who didn't vote. And that's a disaster.

 

I took a vacation from this forum and while I was gone the attack on Democrats and HRC continued unabated. The attack on liberalism is coming from the leftist fringe which has proved to be a dangerous enemy of progress.

 

Bill

Am I over 2016?

 

Yes. I cannot change what happened. I can only move forward. So, I can look at why the Democratic Party lost in an analytic fashion. Like any disaster, catastrophic loss can be studied to prevent the same kind of loss in the future. I don't look at it as a matter of blame. Blame is subjective and an emotional response and counterproductive and a stupid strategy for winning in the future. Loss is almost never a single-factor issue. No one thing caused the loss, but a series of Bad Things that happened.

 

In looking back on why Trump won, the goal should not be about assigning blame. The goal should be determining cause and effect, and how these causes can be avoided in the next election. How do we mitigate and correct what went wrong?

 

Though I do not have all the answers, one thing is patently clear: NOTHING will be mitigated if we re-hash the election and cut down other voters. You don't like it that many liberals didn't vote for Hillary? Quite frankly, tough shit. You don't like it. Get over it.

 

Instead, let's figure out WHY these people didn't vote for Hillary. And then we evaluate what is specific to her and true, what is specific to her and not true, and what is general to the party as a whole, whether true or not-true. And then we figure out what can be solved, what is just bad PR.... etc.

 

The election is done, and even if Trump gets impeached, arrested, tried for treason, whatever, we won't get a re-do on the election. There's no point in clinging to it. We need to move on and fix the problems. But first we have to acknowledge and understand the problems. We can't do that if we can't get over the election.

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Yes, we do first we have to acknowledge and understand the problem. And the problem was (and is) that people like you preferred to sit back and watch Donald Trump become president.

 

Until that problem is acknowledged and understood, it is hard to move forward.

 

A bunch of you here screwed the country. Noam Chomsky would tell you the same thing.

 

You don't have the moral authority to say "tough shit" as you created the problem that the rest of us have to deal with.

 

When you (all) acknowledge and understand your role in this disaster then maybe it will be time to move on to figuring out how not to repeat the same mistakes. But I'm not holding my breath as no one here who failed to vote seems to understand or acknowledge just how badly they damaged the country.

 

There has to be truth before there can be reconciliation.

 

Bill

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Bill seriously, get over it and stop name-calling and blaming everyone else. Stop telling people who weren't responsible for Trump that they were. When you can have an actual sane conversation about the election and ALL the reasons that Hillary lost, get back to me. Otherwise, have fun staying in that miserable slice of 2016. I feel bad for you. Under the bitter nastiness I *know* there's a nice, compassionate guy, because I've seen that side of you. Unfortunately, you are so obsessed with Hillary's loss that you spew hatred and abuse towards any who did not like and do not like Hillary. *I* don't have the moral authority? Look in a mirror and see how you've treated others here before you say that to me again.

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The trope that the DNC chose the candidate is part of the vicious attempt by the left to delegitimize the clear victory by HRC and the fact that she was the overwhelming choice of Democrats. The berner response is tantamount to a rejection of democracy and not voting is a petulant and immature way to act when one's candidate loses in a primary.

 

The berner decision to makes enemies of Democrats (a process that is on-going) helps enable the people you call theocrats and fascists hold power. It is a stupid and highly immature way to behave.

 

Bill

 

 

You know what, I am tired of this. I tried to reason with you by logic, numbers and reason.

 

The only response was the repetition of your illogical and idiotic mantra.

 

I am pretty sure you're a conservative masking himself as a liberal, seeing that your trolling behavior overlaps almost perfectly with that of many right wingers in NHB. Just like them your only line of discussion is shouting the same false slogans and calling names. When confronted with facts and logic you carefully avoid the topic and go back to your beloved (as well as absurd) slogan.

 

Actually I hope that you're a conservative, I would even respect that to a certain degree. You being a liberal scares me much more, because I though these kind of 'liberals' would only exist as politicians working for the Democratic Party. They may not give a shit about liberalism, but at least they are paid in the millions.

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You know what, I am tired of this. I tried to reason with you by logic, numbers and reason.

 

The only response was the repetition of your illogical and idiotic mantra.

 

I am pretty sure you're a conservative masking himself as a liberal, seeing that your trolling behavior overlaps almost perfectly with that of many right wingers in NHB. Just like them your only line of discussion is shouting the same false slogans and calling names. When confronted with facts and logic you carefully avoid the topic and go back to your beloved (as well as absurd) slogan.

 

Actually I hope that you're a conservative, I would even respect that to a certain degree. You being a liberal scares me much more, because I though these kind of 'liberals' would only exist as politicians working for the Democratic Party. They may not give a shit about liberalism, but at least they are paid in the millions.

And I'm tired of Leftists who can't deal with the fact that Bernie Sanders (who is not a Democrat) was overwhelming defeated by HRC in the primaries because Democratic voters like myself went for the liberal Democratic candidate in the race (and not the socialist who was calling for a revolution).

 

I'm also tired of insinuations that I'm a conservative when it is clear I'm a lifelong liberal Democrat.

 

I voted for the only candidate who could defeat the conservatives in the moment of the country's need, too bad so many others here made a different choice.

 

Bill

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Are you over 2016? I'm not.

 

I would have never guessed that. :rolleyes: All this blah, blah, blah about who's "smarter" and such is utterly irrelevant. It's not a contest - it's about who's going to honor their campaign promises and do everything in their power to help those who voted for them. Which candidate was there to help the working class......and which one was there to help Goldman Sachs, wealthy donors, and/or themselves?

 

History shows Bernie has spent his life in the trenches, helping those who are struggling. He doesn't care about Washington glitz, nor does he cater to lobbyists or special interests. On the other hand, Hillary has spent her life hob-knobbing with wealth and political royalty, taking millions in donations from Wall Street and the wealthy, and working to further her standing in Washington.

 

For me, the choice was clear. I vote for politicians who are going to work for the issue I care about.....not the issues that better themselves politically and/or economically.

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And I'm tired of Leftists who can't deal with the fact that Bernie Sanders (who is not a Democrat) was overwhelming defeated by HRC in the primaries because Democratic voters like myself went for the liberal Democratic candidate in the race (and not the socialist who was calling for a revolution).

 

I'm also tired of insinuations that I'm a conservative when it is clear I'm a lifelong liberal Democrat.

 

I voted for the only candidate who could defeat the conservatives in the moment of the country's need, too bad so many others here made a different choice.

 

Bill

 

With all due respect, Bill, the reality we have is the reality we have to deal with.

 

We lost, and lost badly; at all levels of government.

 

There were a whole lot of reasons why; we need to find out how to address those reasons, regain our equilibrium, and be ready to face the midterm elections as united and committed as we can be to prevent another loss. Let's be honest: with Trump in the WH - and he's proving to be even worse than I feared he might be - and the Republicans strutting around with their chests out making fools of themselves, if we can't create a fundamental shift in Congress as a repudiation of this Republican disaster then we will have to accept the crushing truth that the Democratic Party has collapsed as a viable political force in this country. Infighting with ourselves, pointing fingers and refusing to acknowledge that we failed to provide a viable candidate to beat what may be the single worst human being ever put up for political office in American history, does nothing but make us look even more incoherent and out-of-touch to the American electorate than we already do.

 

I know you thought Hillary was going to be a great President. A lot of people - including a lot of Democrats - didn't. While I voted for her in the election, even I did so only half-heartedly. You can insist that any questions about Hillary's character or qualifications are nothing but Faux News Noise... but that doesn't change the fact that enough Americans were concerned about her that they chose not to vote for her. This includes Democrats, Independents and Moderates of all walks of life; a great many of whom have about as much respect for Fox as you or I do.

 

All that said, there are reasons for hope! We stopped the Republicans from dismantling Americans' Health Care (at least for now) and there are things we can do to hold the line against their agenda that can rebuild our credibility as a Party.... but only if we let go of useless infighting and fingerpointing. Otherwise, we're just going to be seen as nothing but a party of people like the woman who went to a Trump rally and stood there mindlessly screaming into the sky as if she was accomplishing something.

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And I'm tired of Leftists who can't deal with the fact that Bernie Sanders (who is not a Democrat) was overwhelming defeated by HRC in the primaries because Democratic voters like myself went for the liberal Democratic candidate in the race (and not the socialist who was calling for a revolution).

 

I'm also tired of insinuations that I'm a conservative when it is clear I'm a lifelong liberal Democrat.

 

I voted for the only candidate who could defeat the conservatives in the moment of the country's need, too bad so many others here made a different choice.

 

Bill

And again, more bubbling of the same slogans. You have no arguments, and like any typical conservative with no argument, you keep shouting the same mantras, usually learned from some specialized propaganda site.

 

You're a conservative, there is nothing necessarily bad in this until you keep your ideas away from extremism. Just deal with it.

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And I'm tired of Leftists

 

This subforum is reserved for those on the left ... Leftists. If you want more Right Wing rhetoric, move to NHB. I highly recommend it. Many of the those on the left in NHB, are more to your pursuasion.

 

 

who can't deal with the fact that Bernie Sanders (who is not a Democrat) was overwhelming defeated by HRC in the primaries because Democratic voters like myself went for the liberal Democratic candidate in the race (and not the socialist who was calling for a revolution).

 

Whether Bernie Sanders is a Democrat or not is completely irrelevant. He represented the Left and not the Right. Bernie was NOT calling for a revolution.

 

 

I'm also tired of insinuations that I'm a conservative when it is clear I'm a lifelong liberal Democrat.

 

Maybe you're in the wrong party then. The strident assertions ... The bombast ... The personal attacks ... The tedious repetition ... The exaggerations and spite ... They all resemble Conservative rhetoric far more than Leftist discourse.

 

Rules for LO

Welcome to Liberals only forum

 

No conservatives allowed

Post respectfully, personal attacks will not be tolerated

No more than five new threads a day

No trash talking about members and their kids

No porn, or links to porn

No gore pictures

No cursing in thread titles

No, 'outing' of members or their families; names, addresses, phone numbers, SSNs, etc.

No linking to other political forums

No solicitations

 

 

I voted for the only candidate who could defeat the conservatives

 

Hillary lost. Why are you claiming she won?

 

 

in the moment of the country's need, too bad so many others here made a different choice.

 

Bill

 

Everyone still has a right to vote how they see fit, in the USA, without endless shaming by you. Hillary did not serve the country's need. She failed it and now we have the unthinkable. As has been observed, she got support from many in high places including the majority of politicians, movie stars and celebrities. And as was said earlier: If JFK himself came back and gave speeches in her favor, it would probably not have enough to influence the electorate to vote for Hillary.

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​Part of the reason we have Trump is because liberalism is divided within itself. Some liberals are willing to tolerate big corporations with ever growing economic and political power. They will support certain regulations but they won't challenge monopoly capitalism or free trade. While they will tax upper incomes they would prefer to tweak the Welfare State to ease the effects of wealth/income inequality rather than narrow the gap. Other liberals however want to challenge corporate power and even break monopolies. They favor wage, tax, regulatory, and social welfare policies that redistribute wealth and income more evenly. Not all of the former are neoliberal but some are, and most of the latter should not be dismissed as ultraliberal or radical left extremist.

 

​Hillary Clinton and President Obama represent the former brand of liberalism that is unable and unwilling to adequately address the challenge posed by Corporate America and the wealthy elites. Bernie Sanders despite claims of being a Democratic Socialist along with Elizabeth Warren and Keith Ellison are part of the latter liberalism. Until more liberals are willing to challenge big money, big business, and the inequality that come with them the Democratic Party will not craft a message or mobilize it's voters or potential supporters to regain power and move America in the right direction.

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Until more liberals are willing to challenge big money, big business, and the inequality that come with them the Democratic Party will not craft a message or mobilize it's voters or potential supporters to regain power and move America in the right direction.

 

This last line says it all. :D Well said!

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It ain't Socialist Forum Bludog, as much as you'd like to enforce the party-line to the exclusion of liberal voices.

 

Bad form.

 

Bill

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​Part of the reason we have Trump is because liberalism is divided within itself. Some liberals are willing to tolerate big corporations with ever growing economic and political power. They will support certain regulations but they won't challenge monopoly capitalism or free trade. While they will tax upper incomes they would prefer to tweak the Welfare State to ease the effects of wealth/income inequality rather than narrow the gap. Other liberals however want to challenge corporate power and even break monopolies. They favor wage, tax, regulatory, and social welfare policies that redistribute wealth and income more evenly. Not all of the former are neoliberal but some are, and most of the latter should not be dismissed as ultraliberal or radical left extremist.

 

​Hillary Clinton and President Obama represent the former brand of liberalism that is unable and unwilling to adequately address the challenge posed by Corporate America and the wealthy elites. Bernie Sanders despite claims of being a Democratic Socialist along with Elizabeth Warren and Keith Ellison are part of the latter liberalism. Until more liberals are willing to challenge big money, big business, and the inequality that come with them the Democratic Party will not craft a message or mobilize it's voters or potential supporters to regain power and move America in the right direction.

 

Great post. Concisely explains the problem and the solution. What makes it so difficult is that for "more liberals" to "challenge big money, big business and the inequality that come with them", Democratic lawmakers will have to wean themselves from legislating in return for bribes. It is notoriously hard to pry corruption out of government.

 

 

======================================================================================

 

It ain't Socialist Forum Bludog, as much as you'd like to enforce the party-line to the exclusion of liberal voices.

 

Bad form.

 

Bill

 

It seems you are deliberately missing the point: Stop the name calling and extreme language that no one else here uses. Stop the bombast typical of Conservative rhetoric.

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It ain't Socialist Forum Bludog, as much as you'd like to enforce the party-line to the exclusion of liberal voices.

 

Bad form.

 

Bill

 

Liberal voices have always seemed welcome here. Only combative, argumentative liberal voices get spoken to.....not because of their political bent, but because of the rules of civility in this area. Jmo....

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Liberal voices have always seemed welcome here. Only combative, argumentative liberal voices get spoken to.....not because of their political bent, but because of the rules of civility in this area. Jmo....

 

 

Right, only liberals who defend liberalism from non stop attacks by far-leftistists are considered combative and argumentative. One can say any damned thing attacking liberals, the Democratic party, me, or last year's Democratic presidential nominee and that's not controversial, combative or argumentative.

 

Name calling like plutocrat, neoliberal, and corporatist whore don't bring on Moderation. People lying and calling me a right-winger or a conservative doesn't lead to Bludog posting the rules about personal attacks being verboten.

 

But question St Bernie and the knives come out. It is pure hypocrisy.

 

But such are the tactics of the anti-liberal Left.

 

Bill

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Right, only liberals who defend liberalism from non stop attacks by far-leftistists are considered combative and argumentative. One can say any damned thing attacking liberals, the Democratic party, me, or last year's Democratic presidential nominee and that's not controversial, combative or argumentative.

 

Name calling like plutocrat, neoliberal, and corporatist whore don't bring on Moderation. People lying and calling me a right-winger or a conservative doesn't lead to Bludog posting the rules about personal attacks being verboten.

 

But question St Bernie and the knives come out. It is pure hypocrisy.

 

But such are the tactics of the anti-liberal Left.

 

Bill

 

Sigh.... :( I wholeheartedly disagree, but I'm done fighting with you about it.

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Sigh.... :( I wholeheartedly disagree, but I'm done fighting with you about it.

 

Has a single Leftist ever been moderated for calling Democrats: neoliberals, plutocrats, or corporatists?

 

Has a Leftist been moderated for calling me a right-winger, a conservative, or suggesting I belong on NHB?

 

Has any Leftist been called a liar by the Moderator (who was then proven wrong) and not gotten an apology?

 

Has any Leftist had his posts hijacked by a Moderator who changed the text into insults on themselves?

 

That's no. No. No. And No.

 

Bill

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It ain't Socialist Forum Bludog, as much as you'd like to enforce the party-line to the exclusion of liberal voices.

 

Bad form.

 

Bill

 

​My experience here as a liberal has always been positive. I 've not had any problem pointing out where I differ or disagree with leftists. Bill You remind me of the Cold War Liberals from 1950s who hated leftists and dismissed anyone except the most moderate socialists as totalitarian. However I think there is a sensible and well reasoned liberal inside you just waiting to get out. Why not offer something more than hatred of Sanders and his supporters. Is that really all you have ? Laripu is similar to you in ideology but he has been more civil and balanced when discussing Sanders and his supporters.

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Has a single Leftist ever been moderated for calling Democrats: neoliberals, plutocrats, or corporatists?

 

Has a Leftist been moderated for calling me a right-winger, a conservative, or suggesting I belong on NHB?

 

Has any Leftist been called a liar by the Moderator (who was then proven wrong) and not gotten an apology?

 

Has any Leftist had his posts hijacked by a Moderator who changed the text into insults on themselves?

 

That's no. No. No. And No.

 

Bill

 

Your exquisite sensitivity for your own feelings combined with a callous attitude toward the sensibilities of others, causes you to take offense at minor slights and deal out substantial disrespect as if was OK.

 

Consider below. Has anyone one this subforum ever addressed you in like manner? No one else in this room talks like that.

 

Bwahaha. That is the funniest thing I've ever heard.

 

Too much Kool-Aid my friend.

 

Mocking with no factual content.

 

 

 

That is a BS excuse for the BS excuse of Bernie Sanders.

 

Bill

 

Entirely gratuitous preface to a post.

 

 

 

We differ on that front. I don't respect the decisions of people who passed and thereby enabled the election of Donald Trump.

 

Those people should carry the shame of their actions to their graves.

 

Bill

 

We're talking about the right to vote here. There should no shame in voting one's conscience no matter what you say.

 

 

 

Not being ashamed of what you (and others like you) have done is a major part of the problem we have moving forward.

 

You all screwed the country and are the reason Trump is the president.

 

Bill

 

I will NEVER get over it. Never. Ever.

 

You should feel guilty. That you'd do it all over again given the chance shows just how far of you are in your moral judgment.

 

Bill

 

No one should be shaming anyone in the LO Rm. "Post respectfully, personal attacks will not be tolerated".

 

 

A bunch of you here screwed the country. Noam Chomsky would tell you the same thing.

 

You don't have the moral authority to say "tough shit" as you created the problem that the rest of us have to deal with.

 

When you (all) acknowledge and understand your role in this disaster then maybe it will be time to move on to figuring out how not to repeat the same mistakes. But I'm not holding my breath as no one here who failed to vote seems to understand or acknowledge just how badly they damaged the country.

 

This is posting with disrespect about fellow Liberals in the LO Rm. No one should be telling people how they should have voted. In NHB - yes. In the LO Rm - no.

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Your exquisite sensitivity for your own feelings combined with a callous attitude toward the sensibilities of others, causes you to take offense at minor slights and deal out substantial disrespect as if was OK.

 

 

You dodged all the questions, including those that question your outrageously unacceptable hijacking of my account and making false posts under my name. That would have gotten any member booted from any other forum.Much less a Moderator abusing his powers in such a fashion.

 

That's not "exquisite sensitivity," that's just basic expectations of decency. You called me a liar (when you were wrong). No apology, but then claim I'm the one who is at fault here. Please.

 

You want this place to reflect a socialist agenda only. Slams on Democrats and liberals never get moderated. Ever.

 

Pure hypocrisy.

 

Bill

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You dodged all the questions, including those that question your outrageously unacceptable hijacking of my account and making false posts under my name. That would have gotten any member booted from any other forum.Much less a Moderator abusing his powers in such a fashion.

 

That's not "exquisite sensitivity," that's just basic expectations of decency. You called me a liar (when you were wrong). No apology, but then claim I'm the one who is at fault here. Please.

 

You want this place to reflect a socialist agenda only. Slams on Democrats and liberals never get moderated. Ever.

 

Pure hypocrisy.

 

Bill

 

Trying to deflect from his own foulness to the other posters in this room. Always looking for vengeance. Like our current Chief Executive, actually. The issue is not your political views but your contstant, unbroken record of violating rule #2 of the LO Rm: "Post respectfully, personal attacks will not be tolerated".

 

Stop the personal attacks and you can post your political views without criticism. I wonder if you're even capable of it. There's been no sign ... Ever.

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I have a GREAT idea. Let's let SpyCar have a thread all to himself about why the people who didn't vote for HRC or think HRC was a terrible candidate and a terrible choice for POTUS are awful, horrid traitors to party, liberalism, and the country, and the rest of us can constructively discuss how to move forwards and work towards getting non-corporatist, non-oligarchic, actual liberals in office, whether of the Democrat persuasion or by replacing the party with something viable that will work for the people instead of Big Business and Big Bucks. Because, seriously, it's bullshit like this that is keeping us in the stagnant past wherein we.... ah.... lost. Badly.

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