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Letsbechi11

"Wage gap" bs?

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To my understanding: if two people work the same job they will be payed the exact same amount per hour of work. So where does the this phrase stem from? are people confusing wage with earnings?

 

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I think most people are more concerned with the huge difference between the 'have' and 'have not' crowds. Although some feel, and with some great justification that men still get better pay for doing the same exact job.

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are people confusing wage with earnings?

 

 

 

 

Yes. This, however, doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue to work on closing that gap.

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isnt that up to the worker?

 

I would argue that it's a case by case basis. People still have kids, and often much of the responsibility is still put on the mother, which takes away time that could be spent working or learning something that would make her more valuable as an employee.

 

I don't have any statistics on this, but I'm willing to wager that among men and women who don't have children, their earnings are roughly the same.

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I would argue that it's a case by case basis. People still have kids, and often much of the responsibility is still put on the mother, which takes away time that could be spent working or learning something that would make her more valuable as an employee.

 

I don't have any statistics on this, but I'm willing to wager that among men and women who don't have children, their earnings are roughly the same.

i would agree with that. Women having children is probably the main reason for the earning gap.

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To my understanding: if two people work the same job they will be payed the exact same amount per hour of work. So where does the this phrase stem from? are people confusing wage with earnings?

 

There are not laws, in most places, forcing employers to pay the same remuneration for the same job. Many employers recompense workers at wildly different rates for the exact same work. Often friends and family members get more. Or those deemed to be better workers. Or those who suck up. Or men. Or whites. Or those who provide sex. etc.

 

Only on union jobs do workers consistently get the same pay for the same work.

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There are not laws, in most places, forcing employers to pay the same remuneration for the same job. Many employers pay recompense workers at wildly different rates for the exact same work. Often friends and family members get more. Or those deemed to be better workers. Or those who suck up.

 

Only on union jobs do workers consistently get the same pay for the same work.

what places do and dont have those laws? Does make sense for small business but for large corporations like mc'd and other corporations like that; would you say that is common for those large companies?

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There are not laws, in most places, forcing employers to pay the same remuneration for the same job. Many employers recompense workers at wildly different rates for the exact same work. Often friends and family members get more. Or those deemed to be better workers. Or those who suck up. Or men. Or whites. Or those who provide sex. etc.

 

Only on union jobs do workers consistently get the same pay for the same work.

 

That being said, my original post was in regards to the $0.75 to $1.00 statistic.

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what places do and dont have those laws?

 

There's a federal law, the Equal Pay Act of 1963, requiring equal pay for men and women for equal work. That law applies only to men and women. There was also the Lily Ledbetter act of 2009. Many employers get around it by classifying jobs differently on paper.

 

 

Does make sense for small business but for large corporations like mc'd and other corporations like that; would you say that is common for those large companies?

 

You're asking for opinion and/or personal experience. I will share the observations of my personal experience. I only worked for two large corporations. I worked for a company which I will not name where I saw people who obviously didn't merit it get promotions and with them, pay raises. These were usually people who had family connections to bosses. At Verizon, which was unionized, everyone who did the same work, got the exact same pay. With the union present, the company couldn't get away with anything different.

 

But I worked for one giant non-unionized organization where everyone got exactly the same pay for the same work - The US Army

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There's a federal law, the Equal Pay Act of 1963, requiring equal pay for men and women for equal work. That law applies only to men and women. There was also the Lily Ledbetter act of 2009. Many employers get around it by classifying jobs differently on paper.

 

You're asking for opinion and/or personal experience. I will share the observations of my personal experience. I only worked for two large corporations. I worked for a company which I will not name where I saw people who obviously didn't merit it get promotions and with them, pay raises. These were usually people who had family connections to bosses. At Verizon, which was unionized, everyone who did the same work, got the exact same pay. With the union present, the company couldn't get away with anything different.

 

But I worked for one giant non-unionized organization where everyone got exactly the same pay for the same work - The US Army

I thank you for this information and perspective. Also i thank you for your service.

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I thank you for this information and perspective. Also i thank you for your service.

bludog is awesome. you're a wise man for listening to his knowledge-bombs; he drops them frequently :-)

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I'm surprised so many people give credence to this 'wage gap' myth. The data used to arrive at their figures doesn't take into account the types of jobs people do, whether or not they are working part time or full time etc... It is just a crude average comparing the mean male annual earnings to their female counterparts, with no consideration for what they do, how productive they are and how many hours they work. When you actually compare like for like, it turns out that men and women do get paid equally. In fact, studies show that in STEM fields, a woman with the same qualifications as a man, would be twice as likely to get the job - because of companies' eagerness to meet quotas.

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Generally, men work jobs which are more dangerous. 97% of workplace deaths are men. Crab fishing, construction, jobs like that are jobs women do not typically do.

If you are talking about entry level jobs, ironically the pay gap is opposite. Men and women are being paid the same amount but men are expected to do most of the heavy lifting (literally), meaning the man's labor value is being diminished at the lowest paying jobs. When we're talking about lower class, working class Americans, it's male workers who are being paid less for their work.

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I'm surprised so many people give credence to this 'wage gap' myth. The data used to arrive at their figures doesn't take into account the types of jobs people do, whether or not they are working part time or full time etc... It is just a crude average comparing the mean male annual earnings to their female counterparts, with no consideration for what they do, how productive they are and how many hours they work. When you actually compare like for like, it turns out that men and women do get paid equally. In fact, studies show that in STEM fields, a woman with the same qualifications as a man, would be twice as likely to get the job - because of companies' eagerness to meet quotas.

They most certainly DO include all those things you said these studies don't include. The wage gap is not a myth, it is pretty well documented.

 

In fact, a hiring/temp agency company, Glassdoor, even did their OWN inhouse study on the issue. They examined hundreds of thousands of employeer's financial information which was shared voluntarily by employees who had used Glassdoor to find work.

 

https://www.glassdoor.com/research/studies/gender-pay-gap/

 

University of Wisconsin also did a study a while back that showed that women were just as, if not more, aggressive in asking/negotiating for pay raises, but were turned down around 30% more than men were despite equivalent variables in each employee's record. I remember The Guardian also doing an article on that very same subject (might have even been the same exact study)

 

The IZA even has an indepth section on their website that relates to pay gap based on gender and/or discriminatory employer practices.

 

http://ftp.iza.org/dp9656.pdf

http://newsroom.iza.org/en/2017/03/17/the-gender-pay-gap-discrimination-or-structural-differences/

 

Even when looking at identical careers and examining the HOURLY wage, women--depending on ethnicity--make on average, 12-22% less than their male equivalents.

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I think this is the kind of question that is sort of sophomoric. Penciling things down, the gender gap. If you hire a woman and realize she will have a child, you might not pay the same over time. On top of that the wage gap actually comes from the bureau of labor statistics, it is real and it does exists. If you're older like me you remember there were less women in the workforce when you were young. IT has to do with understanding the statistics and simple math but more than that

it has to do actual data which is very true.

 

You should take a class on being a woman first. It bothers me as a man how people calculate stats that do not affect them. So do some fucking research boys.

 

So certainly there is the big A in average, combined with the glass ceiling gap, the harder it is to get a good professional job thrown in there. It's not about a girl and a boy both getting the same job at Mc Fucking Donald's.

 

Peace!

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Every company I am familiar with wants more profit. They prefer to pay as little on wages as they have to. If you will do the work for less, they will pay you less. Many often push wages down, eliminate salary increases, or minimize increases to hold on to employees; with some even saying that if you do not have a certain amount of turnover, you are paying too much. The people running the company have a sole interest in maximizing profits in the short term. If women really would work for less, you would find many jobs that are primarily done by women. With that being said, there are many jobs primarily done by women, such as daycare teachers, elementary school teachers, nurses, secretaries, and so forth. Men can also do these jobs, but they are paid less to do so, comparable to a woman's salary. They have to compete for the jobs.

 

There are other factors as well, but for most jobs, I suspect the wages are essentially equal.

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Every company I am familiar with wants more profit. They prefer to pay as little on wages as they have to. If you will do the work for less, they will pay you less. Many often push wages down, eliminate salary increases, or minimize increases to hold on to employees; with some even saying that if you do not have a certain amount of turnover, you are paying too much. The people running the company have a sole interest in maximizing profits in the short term. If women really would work for less, you would find many jobs that are primarily done by women. With that being said, there are many jobs primarily done by women, such as daycare teachers, elementary school teachers, nurses, secretaries, and so forth. Men can also do these jobs, but they are paid less to do so, comparable to a woman's salary. They have to compete for the jobs.

 

There are other factors as well, but for most jobs, I suspect the wages are essentially equal.

this is nonsense.Sure, wages are artificially kept low by corporate budgets, and surely there are more women in certain jobs than there are men, conversely so there are many more jobs that are primarily held by men, many more, many more that pay much higher than a woman gets paid. You present nothing here but scattered logic Don Joe.

The unequal pay that women get is not made up it comes from the Labor Board. You are spouting nothing but bull here. I don't know why, you are disturbed by the data that shows the truth, but somehow it bothers the heck out of you.

 

Not me. It doesn't bother me to know the truth!

 

Peace!

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this is nonsense.Sure, wages are artificially kept low by corporate budgets, and surely there are more women in certain jobs than there are men, conversely so there are many more jobs that are primarily held by men, many more, many more that pay much higher than a woman gets paid. You present nothing here but scattered logic Don Joe.

The unequal pay that women get is not made up it comes from the Labor Board. You are spouting nothing but bull here. I don't know why, you are disturbed by the data that shows the truth, but somehow it bothers the heck out of you.

 

Not me. It doesn't bother me to know the truth!

 

Peace!

I am perfectly capable of uttering nonsense. It is easy to make mistakes and often hard to correct them. Particularly so when one holds one opinion and doesn't see what is wrong with it. I am not sure what data you are referring to. If you mean the data that shows that on average women make less than men, yes, and I gave an opinion as to why. Corporations will always pay less if they can, except in situations where the employee wields power over the corporation, such as CEOs. What I don't see is men getting paid more simply because they are men. I know of no employer (although there may be some) who pay men more simply because they are men, or pay women less simply because they are women. They pay as little as possible, period. They don't pay you more because you need more.

 

I am not bothered by the statistics, but rather try to understand them in the context of my experience.

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There's a federal law, the Equal Pay Act of 1963, requiring equal pay for men and women for equal work. That law applies only to men and women. There was also the Lily Ledbetter act of 2009. Many employers get around it by classifying jobs differently on paper.

 

The Lilly Ledbetter act of 2009 just extended the statute of limitations on when an employee can file a suit for pay discrimination. For those that don't know, Lilly Ledbetter worked at Goodyear as an office manager. She made roughly $500/month less than the next lowest paid person at that position (all the others were male).

 

Before Lilly Ledbetter employees had 180 days from the date the wage was set. This meant that Lily Ledbetter couldn't file suit because it was after the 180 day statute of limitation. The Lily Ledbetter act only changed this, so that it's 180 days since the last paycheck

 

There are still numerous problems in addressing the very-real wage gap. And I think the only way it ever gets truly addressed is to address the gender gap in politics. Until that happens, nobody is going to do anything to address the numerous issues making it hard for women to get equal pay. Because even some liberal males want to dismiss the pay gap because it's inconvenient to them.

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The Lilly Ledbetter act of 2009 just extended the statute of limitations on when an employee can file a suit for pay discrimination. For those that don't know, Lilly Ledbetter worked at Goodyear as an office manager. She made roughly $500/month less than the next lowest paid person at that position (all the others were male).

 

Before Lilly Ledbetter employees had 180 days from the date the wage was set. This meant that Lily Ledbetter couldn't file suit because it was after the 180 day statute of limitation. The Lily Ledbetter act only changed this, so that it's 180 days since the last paycheck

 

There are still numerous problems in addressing the very-real wage gap. And I think the only way it ever gets truly addressed is to address the gender gap in politics. Until that happens, nobody is going to do anything to address the numerous issues making it hard for women to get equal pay. Because even some liberal males want to dismiss the pay gap because it's inconvenient to them.

 

This is absolutely right. Whether we use the term wage or earnings. Women still on average make less than men for comparable work.

 

http://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-and-is-it-real/

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I am perfectly capable of uttering nonsense. It is easy to make mistakes and often hard to correct them. Particularly so when one holds one opinion and doesn't see what is wrong with it. I am not sure what data you are referring to. If you mean the data that shows that on average women make less than men, yes, and I gave an opinion as to why. Corporations will always pay less if they can, except in situations where the employee wields power over the corporation, such as CEOs. What I don't see is men getting paid more simply because they are men. I know of no employer (although there may be some) who pay men more simply because they are men, or pay women less simply because they are women. They pay as little as possible, period. They don't pay you more because you need more.

 

I am not bothered by the statistics, but rather try to understand them in the context of my experience.

Hey DonJoe, Let me start off by saying you have a point and my comments were a bit opine without much data. So I apologize for the frankly jerky tone in my reply - constructive-less for sure!

You may have a point regarding the approach of the movement. Stats right or wrong many times are meaningless without ideas.

 

Peace!

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Women should be paid the same as men for the same job. They should make it illegal for companies to "hide" compensation, most companies have rules on their books that state if you are caught talking about salary it's grounds for termination. This should be abolished and companies should have to post what salaries employees make. I have heard of companies doing this and they said it actually brought them closer together and they had less issues.

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Women should be paid the same as men for the same job. They should make it illegal for companies to "hide" compensation, most companies have rules on their books that state if you are caught talking about salary it's grounds for termination. This should be abolished and companies should have to post what salaries employees make. I have heard of companies doing this and they said it actually brought them closer together and they had less issues.

yes! And there's a lot more to that story as well. There is a economic cloud that hangs over a lot of folks head. Race and sex, both along with social economic parity. It's true. But it is in no way an easy thing to fix. It will take time and it will take education and understanding to fix it right!

 

Peace!

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