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RollingRock

Robert Reich's plan to fix the Democratic party

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Yeah, "freedom of speech" unless you are a so-comm and or atheist.

I'm an atheist and speak freely about it. No-one in government has imprisoned you for what you write.

 

As to treatment of minorities, everything is relative. This is still the safest place on earth for everybody.

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I'm an atheist and speak freely about it. No-one in government has imprisoned you for what you write.

 

As to treatment of minorities, everything is relative. This is still the safest place on earth for everybody.

 

Yeah, relatively bad if you are not white.

 

Ask Freddie Gray how safe America is. Oh wait, he's dead. How about Africans in general? Richard Wright, ever read his stories, Jim Crow, ring a bell? Shall I go on? No, sorry, this country has viciously attacked and killed and imprisoned so-comms/atheists for the last 100 years, so no, I am at risk for taking that position in life. This is Black History Month. Heard from Fred Hampton lately, or Huey P Newton or Malcolm X or MLK? No, they are dead, c/o the counterinsurgency of the FBI and their boy J E Hoover. They could still be alive and the country would be different. How about Mumia Abu Jamal: a political prisoner, still, after 50 years. One of the smartest human beings in this country. Assata Shakur, nope, EXILE to Cuba, they still want her back, after 50 years.

 

The USA is a highly oppressive country, that is the truth.

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Really? After all the constant attacks I'm getting I have basically attacked NO ONE! Whats his name has repeatedly told me to "fuck off" etc, have you called him out about it? I could go on listing many posters. And all the attacking filth of the NHBF?! Really?

 

I was making a little joke. After the guy has repeatedly told me how much of an "idiot" i am , etc'.

 

Everyone here is attacking me for being a socialist, k? If you want to and can move my Marxist to the NHBF, fine, but then it will get filled up with the rightys filth. OR, I could just make it a "socialists only" thread or forum, if that works for you.

 

As to this thread, I dont see any restriction as to opinion. Reich is a Dem or dem-soc or whatever--he's a capitalist. He wants to "Save Capitalism" I dont. I can say I dont and offer the socialist perspective.

 

What if someone thinks of themselves as a progressive? They cant post on the "liberal" forum either? Ok, if its that strict Ill stay outta here. But then I wanna create a so-comm only forum if possible.

 

So-Comms and atheists are under constant attack here and in the society at large. Where do you suggest the few of us voice our opinions wit in the "LiberalForum.com"? I mean, I didnt want to be off in my own little 'echo chamber' but if thats the way it is--give me a spot.

 

Of course it was a joke ... At the other's expense. Can you show where someone literally told you to "fuck off" ... Because I don't remember it.

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Of course it was a joke ... At the other's expense. Can you show where someone literally told you to "fuck off" ... Because I don't remember it.

Really, you're going to call ME out for one small jab, considering the all out war on the NHBF? I been calm, amigo, and I am getting it from every direction for presenting the socialist/atheist position.

 

Anyway, Marxist thread, the nick rhymes with 'mold-yarn'.

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Really, you're going to call ME out for one small jab, considering the all out war on the NHBF? I been calm, amigo, and I am getting it from every direction for presenting the socialist/atheist position.

 

Anyway, Marxist thread, the nick rhymes with 'mold-yarn'.

 

So exquisitely sensitive for his own feelings and callous of others. Yes. A hard jab ... Coming at the end of many sustained combinations.

 

So he provokes mightily. Then surprised when people retaliate. And your escalations top everyone else. That's why your style belongs in NHB.

 

I called you out because you insist on standing out. No one else in the LO room comes close to your level of provocation.

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So exquisitely sensitive for his own feelings and callous of others. Yes. A hard jab ... Coming at the end of many sustained combinations.

 

So he provokes mightily. Then surprised when people retaliate. And your escalations top everyone else. That's why your style belongs in NHB.

 

I called you out because you insist on standing out. No one else in the LO room comes close to your level of provocation.

No, sorry, you dont like socialism and you have turned on me too and attacked my posts re it because of it. Thats ok. But you are A O K with others directly telling me to fuck off, etc. I point out the fallacies of the capitalist system, so others, liberal capitalists attack--those who believe in the system and like it just fine and dandy as long as they are getting over. Any black people on these forums, BTW? I'm not feelin' many. Whats his name just argued that the USA is a great place for freedom, and I broke that all down quite truthfully. So he'll attack me, and I will get blamed.

 

Robert Reich, who knows what the hell he is? Is he liberal, prog, dem, dem soc, all of the above? Who knows. What we DO know is that he 'wants to save capitalism', so he is a capitalist. I am not allowed to comment on that fact. Guess not, because I am not a 'liberal'. Ok, fine, Im good.

 

Tell you what, tell me how I can have a so-comm 'space' for so-comms only, if you need to move it to somewhere and modify the title as such and I will stay out of your liberal thing if you stay outta my so-comm thing. If you have to move it to NHBF, then so be it. So-comms need a space on this website too, if it claims to be fair and balanced or advocate free speech. You allow all that Nazi hate speech on the other, I am not doing hate speech, socialism is all inclusive, it is the opposite of fascism.

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P.S.,If you call that a 'hard jab', I got news for you buddy, you obviously are not in the working class. And thats the fundamental divide between the Trumpsters and the Liberals. The former are mostly working class and they resent the elitism of the mostly petit bourgeois liberals, as the latter are incredibly classist--latte' liberals. Hollywood, college kids. White collar folk that never get their hands dirty. So why would the blue collar person join the Dems or liberal side, they are insulted at every turn? And the Dems have abandoned them in favor of Wall St $ too. The Trumpsters should join the socialists, they used to back in the day, but now they just go with the tough talking right wing Christian politico who targets them to form a base and will do next to nothing for them.

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I am not allowed to comment on that fact. Guess not, because I am not a 'liberal'. Ok, fine, Im good.

You have the whole internet to say whatever you want. You can post in NHB to your heart's content.

 

This little area, the LO room, has been reserved for like minded people who identify as liberals. We don't want to argue, here, with conservatives, communists, scientologists, Haredi Jews, KKK, flat-earthers or Holocaust-deniers.

 

Our little disagreements have to do with wealth inequality, taxation, and shades varying from slightly-left-of-center to slightly-more-left-of-center all the way over to slightly-even-more-left-of-center.

 

Can you please leave us this little space, where we can happily natter on? Your muddy boots have left tracks all over the formerly clean floor, and your loud voice has woken the children. Can you please move on?

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P.S.,If you call that a 'hard jab', I got news for you buddy, you obviously are not in the working class.

 

Wrong guess. Just shows how Marxist doctrine has clouded your perceptions.

 

 

And thats the fundamental divide between the Trumpsters and the Liberals. The former are mostly working class and they resent the elitism of the mostly petit bourgeois liberals, as the latter are incredibly classist--latte' liberals. Hollywood, college kids. White collar folk that never get their hands dirty. So why would the blue collar person join the Dems or liberal side, they are insulted at every turn? And the Dems have abandoned them in favor of Wall St $ too.

 

What's needed is more and better education ... Provided free to those who qualify ... As in all the Social Democratic countries.

 

The Trumpsters should join the socialists, they used to back in the day, but now they just go with the tough talking right wing Christian politico who targets them to form a base and will do next to nothing for them.

 

Most Trumpsters would be very comfortable with the Socialists. They love getting lied to.

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You have the whole internet to say whatever you want. You can post in NHB to your heart's content.

 

This little area, the LO room, has been reserved for like minded people who identify as liberals. We don't want to argue, here, with conservatives, communists, scientologists, Haredi Jews, KKK, flat-earthers or Holocaust-deniers.

 

Our little disagreements have to do with wealth inequality, taxation, and shades varying from slightly-left-of-center to slightly-more-left-of-center all the way over to slightly-even-more-left-of-center.

 

Can you please leave us this little space, where we can happily natter on? Your muddy boots have left tracks all over the formerly clean floor, and your loud voice has woken the children. Can you please move on?

Liberal censorship, there you have it. Technically speaking, liberalism is a subset of socialism, but socialists are obviously not capitalists. Sure, np, keep insulting me 'liberally', you guys are good at it. I will not post in the LO from this point on, you can count on it. I'll go hang out with the Drumpf Nazis than the clueless liberal Nazis.

 

Wrong guess. Just shows how Marxist doctrine has clouded your perceptions.

 

 

 

What's needed is more and better education ... Provided free to those who qualify ... As in all the Social Democratic countries.

 

 

Most Trumpsters would be very comfortable with he Socialists. They love getting lied to.

Sorry, no can reply, Monkey kicked me out, shut my ass right down und der petit bourgeois and highly patronizing LO. I'm off to chit chat with the other Nazis.

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Liberal censorship, there you have it. Technically speaking, liberalism is a subset of socialism, but socialists are obviously not capitalists. Sure, np, keep insulting me 'liberally', you guys are good at it. I will not post in the LO from this point on, you can count on it. I'll go hang out with the Nazis.

 

"Liberal censorship". It's a resentment shared with half the Conservatives in NHB.

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Liberal censorship, there you have it. Technically speaking, liberalism is a subset of socialism, but socialists are obviously not capitalists. Sure, np, keep insulting me 'liberally', you guys are good at it. I will not post in the LO from this point on, you can count on it. I'll go hang out with the Nazis.

 

I, for one, hope you stay. :) However this area isn't one for aggressive debating. We don't get in each other's faces here. For the most part, we discuss our differences and respect that those differences exist. The LO area is a nice break from the angry flamethrowing in NHB.

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I, for one, hope you stay. :) However this area isn't one for aggressive debating. We don't get in each other's faces here. For the most part, we discuss our differences and respect that they exist. The LO area is a nice break from the angry flamethrowing in NHB.

Dude, its the liberals that been getting in my face and all attack dog on me the moment I declared I was a socialist. Check the record.

Can somebody kindly move my Marxist thread out of the LO to some other place on the site, and maybe let me know where you moved it? I put alot of work into that thread and maybe there are some actual other socialists that may be interested. Socialists have been evicted here in the LO. If not, I reserve the right to continue that thread in the LO.

 

"Liberal censorship". It's a resentment shared with half the Conservatives in NHB.

So whats your trade? Before you retired? You were a steward, but did you have an actual trade?

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Dude, its the liberals that been getting in my face and all attack dog on me the moment I declared I was a socialist. Check the record.

Can somebody kindly move my Marxist thread out of the LO to some other place on the site, and maybe let me know where you moved it? I put alot of work into that thread and maybe there are some actual other socialists that may be interested. Socialists have been evicted here in the LO. If not, I reserve the right to continue that thread in the LO.

So whats your trade? Before you retired? You were a steward, but did you have an actual trade?

I tend to believe it's your aggressive posting style (rather than the fact that you're a socialist) that has caused others to post aggressively to you. You even said to one poster that you were going to "get in his face." That kind of posting style almost always yields more of the same. I've never seen a socialist evicted in LO. I'm to the left of probably 95% of the posters here, so I get it. :) Good luck to you.

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So whats your trade? Before you retired? You were a steward, but did you have an actual trade?

 

As a working steward I did my job each day and in addition, took grievances, sat grievances, handled disputes, etc. I was required to read coded instructions for wiring and ran the wires several hundred feet off a fifty pound reel. The reel needed to be braked to prevent tangles. The wires needed to be run overhead, medium or ankle height. They had to be run at that height.

 

There were many jobs in our classification and most of our workers didn't want to run lines because it was the most strenuous job . I was one of the people constantly assigned to that job because at the beginning and end of runs, we were the most accurate at precisely placing the wires. If the wires were not placed on the correct lugs, the customer didn't get service. Pinpointing and correcting mistakes could be difficult.

 

That's a very simplified description of my job assignment, more often than not. By necessity I'm leaving out all the highly technical details. I once estimated that I ran over a million lines in my career.

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As a working steward I did my job each day and in addition, took grievances, sat grievances, handled disputes, etc. I was required to read coded instructions for wiring and ran the wires several hundred feet off a fifty pound reel. The reel needed to be braked to prevent tangles. The wires needed to be run overhead, medium or ankle height. They had to be run at that height.

 

There were many jobs in our classification and most of our workers didn't want to run lines because it was the most strenuous job . I was one of the people constantly assigned to that job because at the beginning and end of runs, we were the most accurate at precisely placing the wires. If the wires were not placed on the correct lugs, the customer didn't get service. Pinpointing and correcting mistakes could be difficult.

 

That's a very simplified description of my job assignment, more often than not. I once estimated that I ran over a million lines in my career.

Okie dokie. Well, I was going to ask you why arent you a socialist then, but I guess you've already explained that. You think somehow the capitalists are going to help us, like they have always been so eager to do. ;)

I tend to believe it's your aggressive posting style (rather than the fact that you're a socialist) that has caused others to post aggressively to you. You even said to one poster that you were going to "get in his face." That kind of posting style almost always yields more of the same. I've never seen a socialist evicted in LO. I'm to the left of probably 95% of the posters here, so I get it. :) Good luck to you.

I'm a union carpenter. the foreman on our current job starts each morning at 7a with a scream, "FUCK YOU!" and then it gets better from there. So, come on over to a Brooklyn jobsite some time. ;) Liberals are soft, I get it.

 

I got in his face after he had been deriding and confusing everything I posted w/o really getting it. Anyway, I'll just hang out on my socialist thread, mostly, wherever that may land.

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I tend to believe it's your aggressive posting style (rather than the fact that you're a socialist) that has caused others to post aggressively to you. You even said to one poster that you were going to "get in his face." That kind of posting style almost always yields more of the same. I've never seen a socialist evicted in LO. I'm to the left of probably 95% of the posters here, so I get it. :) Good luck to you.

 

 

Okie dokie. Well, I was going to ask you why arent you a socialist then, but I guess you've already explained that. You think somehow the capitalists are going to help us, like they have always been so eager to do. ;)

I'm a union carpenter. the foreman on our current job starts each morning at 7a with a scream, "FUCK YOU!" and then it gets better from there. So, come on over to a Brooklyn jobsite some time. ;) Liberals are soft, I get it.

 

I got in his face after he had been deriding and confusing everything I posted w/o really getting it. Anyway, I'll just hang out on my socialist thread, mostly, wherever that may land.

 

There it is. Good, old-time-religion; Bible-thumping, in-your-face evangelism. Up close and personal. The Savior has been replaced by Socialism and The Devil, by Capitalism. This is the hard-sell, that can never be repeated enough.

 

And, like religion, no evidence of benefit is given. Just promises. When asked for success stories, countries like Cuba or, of all places, North Korea are pointed to.

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One other thing: Etienne had mentioned atheism a few times as though that was a reason why people disagree with him. But I've been an outspoken atheist on this forum and everywhere else, and have never experienced any negative consequences that I know of ... except one.

 

Once someone didn't invite me to a party because everyone else there was churchy. The excuse was that my wife and I were "too smart for them". Well, we were smart enough to see past the stupid excuse. :D

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What you say is true and thats, in part, why the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, DPRK, etc. are/were not truly socialist/communist, where there is only ONE egalitarian class of the proletariat. But, the formula is right there in the Communist Manifesto, it's really essential reading for those interested in the subject. Should read Das Kapital also. In fact, I dont think a person in the current capitalistic world can really get and get behind so-comm w/o reading those, because iots such a different, and inspiring mindset. Che Guevara, Castro, and Mao are also essential reads. You either have capitalism or so-comm, there aren't other options. All the various reformist stuff people dream up is still capitalism. "Liberals" and "progressives" are still capitalists, just "nice" capitalists, they think. You can only attain "Liberte, equalite, fraternite" with so-comm., isnt possible in capitalism. So people gotta decide what they are all about. It's an ethical thing.

 

Of course, various anarchist thinkers are worthwhile reading too. Proudhon, Kropotkin,Bonnani, etc.

I have read some of those, but it has been a very long time. There is a lot of information from those authors. Can you summarize? How can power at the center be eliminated or avoided? I think we agree that has not been done, so how could it be brought about?

 

Power corrupts, and those in control have the power to corrupt the system. Part of the answer in the US experiment was to distribute the government and have a limited government. I like the idea, but it still becomes corrupted, with those at the top taking more and more power with each passing year and those smaller branches of government being unable to stop it.

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I have read some of those, but it has been a very long time. There is a lot of information from those authors. Can you summarize? How can power at the center be eliminated or avoided? I think we agree that has not been done, so how could it be brought about?

 

Power corrupts, and those in control have the power to corrupt the system. Part of the answer in the US experiment was to distribute the government and have a limited government. I like the idea, but it still becomes corrupted, with those at the top taking more and more power with each passing year and those smaller branches of government being unable to stop it.

Go to my Marxism thread for more info:

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While many if not most of us in this section wanted Keith Ellison rather than Tom Perez for DNC Chair it's over and Perez won so we've got to stick with the Democratic Party if we're serious about practical liberalism. Beyond what many activist, intellectuals, and opinion writers associated liberalism say there is no electoral alternative. At the same time we must be flexible and pragmatic enough to work with grassroots efforts by ordinary people to advance positive social change as well. If Perez is serious about building a stronger state and local infrastructure to challenge the Republican Right and making the party more populist on economic issues liberals and progressives should work with him. If however he continues with more of the same then it will be necessary to challenge him and others. However disengagement or third parties are not an option.

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While many if not most of us in this section wanted Keith Ellison rather than Tom Perez for DNC Chair it's over and Perez won so we've got to stick with the Democratic Party if we're serious about practical liberalism. Beyond what many activist, intellectuals, and opinion writers associated liberalism say there is no electoral alternative. At the same time we must be flexible and pragmatic enough to work with grassroots efforts by ordinary people to advance positive social change as well. If Perez is serious about building a stronger state and local infrastructure to challenge the Republican Right and making the party more populist on economic issues liberals and progressives should work with him. If however he continues with more of the same then it will be necessary to challenge him and others. However disengagement or third parties are not an option.

 

Remember that to win you don't have to conquer democratic and liberal votes, you have to conquer independent votes. If the Democratic Party will stay on the same line kept in the last 20 years or so, they're going to win zero independent votes with zero possibility of winning any future election. My fear is that democrats, in the coming years, will be to concentrated on low level fights with Trump (which they will always lose) than on trying to reform their party.

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Remember that to win you don't have to conquer democratic and liberal votes, you have to conquer independent votes. If the Democratic Party will stay on the same line kept in the last 20 years or so, they're going to win zero independent votes with zero possibility of winning any future election. My fear is that democrats, in the coming years, will be to concentrated on low level fights with Trump (which they will always lose) than on trying to reform their party

 

Your point is well taken. It's a difficult balancing act. Think about increasing the minimum wage, single payer healthcare, and breaking up big banks which make up a left leaning populist agenda. Can Democrats win moderate and independent voters around these issues ? Possibly if Democrats and liberals in particular connect them to individualism and freedom. Liberals, Democrats, and leftists are perceived to be hostile to core American values and ideals. It's not about emulating Western Europe or government taking care of people. That's not what Americans want especially working class people. Rather we have to say no American is truly free to make the most of his/her life if they can't access affordable healthcare or the costs endanger their homes or savings. If we think and speak like this we can move forward.

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