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RollingRock

What's Next for Bernie's Revolution

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Think that Bernie Sanders's political revolution is a thing of the past? :huh: Not a chance! There's still plenty going on within the Sanders movement. From The Progressive:

 

Political campaigns open and break hearts, then disappear. In the end, signs come down, campaign offices empty out, voter and volunteer lists coated with coffee and sweat are shredded. The moment and the movement dissolve.

 

But in this most unusual election year, Bernie Sanders and his passionate supporters aim to break that pattern. Sanderss call for a political revolution ignited a fierce urgency that had been percolating under the surface of Americas stultifying politicsand initiatives such as Our Revolution and Brand New Congress, and smaller Berniecrat clubs and networks sprouting from the grassroots, are carving new pathways for progressive reform.

 

The passion of the post-Bernie movement is undeniable. Within days of Sanderss first public mention of Our Revolution in late June, 24,000 people expressed interest in joining. The groups August 24 launch inspired more than 2,600 house parties around the country, and more than 240,000 viewers on Facebook Live alone. Brand New Congress, meanwhile, is touring the country to build support for running more than 400 reform candidates in 2018.

http://www.progressive.org/news/2016/10/189006/whats-next-bernies-revolution

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Think that Bernie Sanders's political revolution is a thing of the past? :huh: Not a chance! There's still plenty going on within the Sanders movement. From The Progressive:

 

http://www.progressive.org/news/2016/10/189006/whats-next-bernies-revolution

 

Those 2,600 house parties are the key. ​It's grassroots organizing among people not ordinarily involved that will make the difference in changing the Democratic Party and the country. We need more of that.

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Nah. The Bernie movement ain't going anywhere because building a party or real movement takes hard work and the people who support Sander do so in large measure because they are allergic to hard work and want to live (sponge) on the labor of others.

 

This flows from Bernie (who lived on the dole and stole electricity) on down. Bernie cynically used the hard work of Democrats (decades of voter data) by pretending to be a party member. That was theft, not hard work.

 

Ask Tim Canova where the Bernie movement is going. Sanders didn't bother to show to support his poster boy.

 

It is the age old problem of Socailists. They want to live on the work of others. And that will be the Left's downfall. As usual.

 

Bill

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Nah. The Bernie movement ain't going anywhere because building a party or real movement takes hard work and the people who support Sander do so in large measure because they are allergic to hard work and want to live (sponge) on the labor of others.

 

This flows from Bernie (who lived on the dole and stole electricity) on down. Bernie cynically used the hard work of Democrats (decades of voter data) by pretending to be a party member. That was theft, not hard work.

 

Exact same argument used by extreme right Conservatives in NHB. They will undoubtedly quote it, adding to their repetitive litany.

 

 

It is the age old problem of Socailists. They want to live on the work of others. And that will be the Left's downfall. As usual.

 

 

Tell that to the Dutch, Swedes, Finns, Norwegians, Danes or New Zealanders. They all practice Democratic Socialism, to the benefit of all, and their citizens are the happiest in the world.

 

Criticizing Socialism misses the mark. Bernie supports Democratic Socialism. Or maybe you don't to recognize that extremely important distinction.

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Exact same argument used by extreme right Conservatives in NHB. They will undoubtedly quote it, adding to their repetitive litany.

 

 

 

 

 

Tell that to the Dutch, Swedes, Finns, Norwegians, Danes or New Zealanders. They all practice Democratic Socialism, to the benefit of all, and their citizens are the happiest in the world.

 

Criticizing Socialism misses the mark. Bernie supports Democratic Socialism. Or maybe you don't to recognize that extremely important distinction.

Bernie supported the Sandinistas and the Castros. Not exactly democrats. Sanders supports totalitarians, but tries to have it both ways by claiming to the a Democrat and a democrat. He lied about the former, so I'm skeptical about the latter.

 

The nonstop harangues and attacks on HRC are what sound like the extreme right wingers on NHB. There is no daylight between the attacks here and the attacks on NHB.

 

 

Bill

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And one need go no further than to the fact that Bernie was not a true Democrat. He only joined that political party in order to gain favor and be put on the ballot. As an Independent that he is that would not have been possible and he would not have been able to gather much steam. Now that he lost he is back to being an Independent. How's that for party unity? Very telling and speaks volumes about political ambitions over coherence with a party he aligned with just to run for president.

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And one need go no further than to the fact that Bernie was not a true Democrat. He only joined that political party in order to gain favor and be put on the ballot. As an Independent that he is that would not have been possible and he would not have been able to gather much steam. Now that he lost he is back to being an Independent. How's that for party unity? Very telling and speaks volumes about political ambitions over coherence with a party he aligned with just to run for president.

 

OK. Point taken. And there are arguments to be made about political machinations on both sides. One need go no further than DW Schultz and the DNC, conspiring against Bernie. But in the long run, such grievances will fade into triviality. If one is looking for party coherence, the Republicans have always excelled over the Democrats. After all their disagreements, the Republican march in lockstep. Maybe this season, goose-step would be more appropriate.

 

But what is more important is what a politician stands for at the core. Bernie stands for Democratic Socialism which, as practiced in several countries, around the world, is the most successful experiment in egalitarianism yet. Democratic Socialism, as actually practiced in these countries, does not end Capitalism but regulates it for the good of all. Democratic Socialism promotes free trade. It taxes everyone but graduated heavily toward the very rich. In return, it provides a cradle-to-grave social safety net and security for it's people.

 

Democratic Socialism saves Capitalism from itself by putting extra spending money in ordinary people's pockets, thereby providing a market for the products of industry. It balances supply and demand.

 

After all the petty political machinations of the Democratic primary, what is important is what people believe in.

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OK. Point taken. And there are arguments to be made about political machinations on both sides. One need go no further than DW Schultz and the DNC, conspiring against Bernie. But in the long run, such grievances will fade into triviality. If one is looking for party coherence, the Republicans have always excelled over the Democrats. After all their disagreements, the Republican march in lockstep. Maybe this season, goose-step would be more appropriate.

 

But what is more important is what a politician stands for at the core. Bernie stands for Democratic Socialism which, as practiced in several countries, around the world, is the most successful experiment in egalitarianism yet. Democratic Socialism, as actually practiced in these countries, does not end Capitalism but regulates it for the good of all. Democratic Socialism promotes free trade. It taxes everyone heavily but graduated heavily toward the very rich. In return, it provides a cradle-to-grave social safety net and security for it's people.

 

Democratic Socialism saves Capitalism from itself by putting extra spending money in ordinary people's pockets, thereby providing a market for the products of industry. It balances supply and demand.

 

After all the petty political machinations of the Democratic primary, what is important is what people believe in.

While true, what people believe in after having selected older candidates in this last election is much younger folks to run for president. In 2020 Bernie will be about 80 years old. So, no matter how popular he once was or is the age factor is going to be a black mark against him and will weigh heavily coupled by how he spoke against Hillary Clinton that many will not forget and the fact that he will continue to be an Independent and not a true Democrat. True Democrats would not be swayed yet a second time to vote for him should he still be around to run again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice Shame on ME. Unless a younger Democrat carries the torch for what he stands for, Sanders has little chance of advancing again in presidential politics.

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There is always an excuse for the bad dealings of Bernie Sanders, and never an ownership of the perfidy and self-dealing.

 

He is the one who engaged in petty machinations.

 

Bernie never spoke of "saving Capitalism" (and please show me if I'm wrong about that). Instead, he spoke of starting a socialist revolution.

 

We've seen what sorts of socialist revolutions he praises, and they are not democratic ones.

 

Bill

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There is always an excuse for the bad dealings of Bernie Sanders, and never an ownership of the perfidy and self-dealing.

 

He is the one who engaged in petty machinations.

 

Bernie never spoke of "saving Capitalism" (and please show me if I'm wrong about that). Instead, he spoke of starting a socialist revolution.

 

We've seen what sorts of socialist revolutions he praises, and they are not democratic ones.

 

Bill

Therein lies the problem.

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While true, what people believe in after having selected older candidates in this last election is much younger folks to run for president. In 2020 Bernie will be about 80 years old. So, no matter how popular he once was or is the age factor is going to be a black mark against him and will weigh heavily coupled by how he spoke against Hillary Clinton that many will not forget and the fact that he will continue to be an Independent and not a true Democrat. True Democrats would not be swayed yet a second time to vote for him should he still be around to run again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice Shame on ME. Unless a younger Democrat carries the torch for what he stands for, Sanders has little chance of advancing again in presidential politics.

 

Straw man argument plucked out of thin air. Bernie is too old to run again. We need new blood.

 

The goal of Democratic Socialism lives on. FDR was, essentially, a Democratic Socialist ahead of his time.

 

 

FDR Second Bill Of Rights

 

 

 

There is always an excuse for the bad dealings of Bernie Sanders, and never an ownership of the perfidy and self-dealing.

 

He is the one who engaged in petty machinations.

 

Bernie never spoke of "saving Capitalism" (and please show me if I'm wrong about that). Instead, he spoke of starting a socialist revolution.

 

We've seen what sorts of socialist revolutions he praises, and they are not democratic ones.

 

Bill

 

Petty machinations took place on both sides in the Democratic primary. Now the Democratic Party needs to decide what principles it should stand for. If it continues to be Republican Lite, the Party is doomed. The Democrats need to offer The People a real choice. The only way for the Democrats to win back government is to offer The People real hope with a concrete agenda of progressive change. That change needs to be away from the Republican platform, not toward it.

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That 39% that is floating around out there, they are not hard left or hard right, and are the sleeping ones the right fear the most. The Trumpettes only have 1/3 of the American support and that is waning..fast. Let Cheeto Tweet, let him be himself, he is self destructing before he even gets to put his fat ass in the Oval chair.

 

Cheeto continues to taunt the intelligence community, they span across many political Presidencies, let him. It is like getting pulled over by the cops and telling them to suck off...never ends well.

 

Enough for the happy thoughts and back to Bernie..Many sat this one out, 39% approximately, add in the Dems and the Trumpettes are so screwed in the Mid Term elections. They caught us sleeping, that is on us.

 

We are ALL wide awake now.

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As president-elect, with no real power yet, Mein Trumpfkopfk is taunting the wrong people. Once in office, he will push things far enough to either be deposed, or seize dictatorial power, putting an end to what's left of Representative Government in the USA.

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He would need the military behind him for that. You think the end of Nam was dramatic..the crap would never hold in today's climate. I suspect he will get major resistance from the Pentagon for 90% of what he tries, not to mention the poor grunts that will be ordered to do his bidding.

 

Enter the NSA CIA and all the other 3 letter organizations, One simply does NOT piss on that parade and live to enjoy it. Political or physical.

 

But then we get Pence :blink:

 

Plus what they, the Trumpettes, seem to forget , they voted back in, down ticket voting, who they were so angry with. AND everything Cheeto wants, boast to do cost a whole lotta ching.

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He would need the military behind him for that. You think the end of Nam was dramatic..the crap would never hold in today's climate. I suspect he will get major resistance from the Pentagon for 90% of what he tries, not to mention the poor grunts that will be ordered to do his bidding.

 

Enter the NSA CIA and all the other 3 letter organizations, One simply does NOT piss on that parade and live to enjoy it. Political or physical.

 

But then we get Pence :blink:

 

That's a problem. Pence is even more dangerous in his way, because he's so much more accomplished as a politician.

 

Absolutely correct. He would need the military to become dictator. I was in the military and they fall behind a Strongman very quickly. A coup-de'tat, for the first time in our history is not out of the question. I hope it is only speculation.

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I come from a military background as well. My dad was a lifer. Bro enlisted but has issues with the rules lol and my ex was a Nam vet. That era is different from today's. However with that said, and having a volunteer system, we ran short of grunts ( I use that term with total respect ) to fight the Bush wars and had to dig into the Reserves..dudes that really did not have it in their hearts to go...same as Nam. There are many parallels.

 

Cheeto will try to drag us into a new conflict, I do believe this 1000000% and it will be over some stupid shit that fell out of is mouth and for a sort of "payback" Yes Cheeto is replacing some of the Generals but there are many other powers at hand, that GASP at him. The larger power is National Security and he has been pissing on their parade non stop..that will not end well.

 

Cheeto thinks he knows things others do not?? Weeeeeeell so do they :P

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He is the one who engaged in petty machinations.

He engaged in a competitive campaign. When one is running against another candidate, competitors don't typically shower each other with praise. They point out the ways that they feel they're the better candidate. They also criticize the competition. Pointing out Hillary's flaws wasn't "petty." It's what happens in political campaigns.

 

 

Bernie never spoke of "saving Capitalism" (and please show me if I'm wrong about that). Instead, he spoke of starting a socialist revolution.

Incorrect. He spoke of starting a POLITICAL revolution. That revolution involves DEMOCRATIC socialistic policies (i.e. policies the people WANT, not policies foisted upon them).

 

You are correct in that he never spoke of "saving capitalism." If you check the numbers, capitalism is doing just fine on it's own. It doesn't need "saving."

 

 

 

We've seen what sorts of socialist revolutions he praises, and they are not democratic ones.

 

Bill

Incorrect again. He praises DEMOCRATIC socialism and no other form. Try again.

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Does anyone know if/when Bernie has scheduled a big protest?? I think it is time I step up and get my head counted too :)

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I come from a military background as well. My dad was a lifer. Bro enlisted but has issues with the rules lol and my ex was a Nam vet. That era is different from today's. However with that said, and having a volunteer system, we ran short of grunts ( I use that term with total respect ) to fight the Bush wars and had to dig into the Reserves..dudes that really did not have it in their hearts to go...same as Nam. There are many parallels.

 

Cheeto will try to drag us into a new conflict, I do believe this 1000000% and it will be over some stupid shit that fell out of is mouth and for a sort of "payback" Yes Cheeto is replacing some of the Generals but there are many other powers at hand, that GASP at him. The larger power is National Security and he has been pissing on their parade non stop..that will not end well.

 

Cheeto thinks he knows things others do not?? Weeeeeeell so do they :P

You have more familiarity with the military than I do, but I saw bush violate the military time after time with no obvious push back. bush ordered the troops to torture military prisoners, then when caught, imprisoned our own troops for following orders (Abu Ghraib). When bush ordered more torture, he had the white house legal staff write up some phony nonsense and again ordered the troops to engage in illegal activities.

 

bush committed treason on numerous occasions and yet the military continued to support him. I thought there was an oath a soldier took to defend the constitution, not to obey illegal treasonous bush. Yet I saw no push back.

 

Thus I expect the military would wholeheartedly support Trump for Dictator. Of course it would come in steps and people opposing would be replaced one by one.

 

I hope you can tell me where I am wrong.

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You have more familiarity with the military than I do, but I saw bush violate the military time after time with no obvious push back. bush ordered the troops to torture military prisoners, then when caught, imprisoned our own troops for following orders (Abu Ghraib). When bush ordered more torture, he had the white house legal staff write up some phony nonsense and again ordered the troops to engage in illegal activities.

 

bush committed treason on numerous occasions and yet the military continued to support him. I thought there was an oath a soldier took to defend the constitution, not to obey illegal treasonous bush. Yet I saw no push back.

 

Thus I expect the military would wholeheartedly support Trump for Dictator. Of course it would come in steps and people opposing would be replaced one by one.

 

I hope you can tell me where I am wrong.

Some what you say applies, but we get to see Cheeto in real time for the man he actually is and so do they. This is new and for those of us on the Left of things, a good thing. Cheeto has pissed on just about every sector of the American country. He has dumped on the GOP too. He constantly reminding THEM too he "WON BIGLY!!" This IN YOUR FACE crap gets old fast, for everyone.

 

The GOP was so giddy they have full power they jumped on their 1st change, the ethics thang, and Cheeto poopooed it and embarrassed them BEFORE he even takes office. This is going to be 4 years of cat fights.

 

To your point of Bush being a war criminal..he was and the world has put that on record. The USA did not but then all those that backed him would fall too, and many of them are still in power today. Bush will be arrested on sight in many countries for war crimes, so he stays home painting dogs. Canada is one of those countries lol

 

As far as the military backing him, I do not think so. Any major crap he tries to pull would take large numbers and we simply do not have them.

 

I do suspect he will do a lot of Martial Law crap..but that will be on US soil. The people will go nutz. It is going to get really ugly.

 

I think we will see Bernie's predictions up close and personal.

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Nah. The Bernie movement ain't going anywhere because building a party or real movement takes hard work and the people who support Sander do so in large measure because they are allergic to hard work and want to live (sponge) on the labor of others.

Not sure where you're getting your information, but it's false. Is this a revenge post because I said mean things about Hillary? :rolleyes: I worked on Bernie's campaign with longtime professionals in their 50's, 60's, and 70's. As you know, I've been at my job close to 30 years now. I work damn hard and your petty swipes are not only false but, well, extremely petty. Is that the goal? :huh:

 

 

This flows from Bernie (who lived on the dole and stole electricity) on down. Bernie cynically used the hard work of Democrats (decades of voter data) by pretending to be a party member. That was theft, not hard work.

You seem terribly critical of what Bernie did 40-50 years ago. Most people worry about what he's done the last few years, not silly things from his youth. Again.....petty.

 

Ask Tim Canova where the Bernie movement is going. Sanders didn't bother to show to support his poster boy.

He endorsed and supported Canova. He didn't fly to Florida to hold his hand. If you don't recall, Bernie was a little busy at that time. :rolleyes:

 

 

It is the age old problem of Socailists. They want to live on the work of others.

Wrong. DEMOCRATIC socialists. Your blind hate is showing (and it's pretty sad). Bernie's worked for decades in congress. Get a grip.

 

 

And that will be the Left's downfall. As usual.

You're part of the left, sparky (your personally crafted definitions aside).....

 

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He engaged in a competitive campaign. When one is running against another candidate, competitors don't typically shower each other with praise. They point out the ways that they feel they're the better candidate. They also criticize the competition. Pointing out Hillary's flaws wasn't "petty." It's what happens in political campaigns.

 

 

Incorrect. He spoke of starting a POLITICAL revolution. That revolution involves DEMOCRATIC socialistic policies (i.e. policies the people WANT, not policies foisted upon them).

 

You are correct in that he never spoke of "saving capitalism." If you check the numbers, capitalism is doing just fine on it's own. It doesn't need "saving."

 

 

 

Incorrect again. He praises DEMOCRATIC socialism and no other form. Try again.

 

Bernie ran a scorched earth campaign, not a "competitive" one. There is a wide gap between criticizing other candidates and attempting to destroy them using the same false narratives used by the right-wing fake-news machine. Sanders' campaign lacked character in the low tactics, the unconscionable behavior of his partisans, the lies that he would still win when it was over (or the system was "rigged a la Trump), and the defeatism and nihilism that followed.

 

You are cracked if you don't accept that Sanders actively supported the FMLN and the Sandinistas, which were anti-democratic totalitarian movements. He praised the Castros and honeymooned in the Soviet Union (not Copenhagen). That's the sort of socialism he's praised. This truth is well-documented.

 

You're kidding yourself.

 

Bill

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Bernie ran a scorched earth campaign, not a "competitive" one. There is a wide gap between criticizing other candidates and attempting to destroy them using the same false narratives used by the right-wing fake-news machine. Sanders' campaign lacked character in the low tactics, the unconscionable behavior of his partisans, the lies that he would still win when it was over (or the system was "rigged a la Trump), and the defeatism and nihilism that followed.

 

You are cracked if you don't accept that Sanders actively supported the FMLN and the Sandinistas, which were anti-democratic totalitarian movements. He praised the Castros and honeymooned in the Soviet Union (not Copenhagen). That's the sort of socialism he's praised. This truth is well-documented.

 

You're kidding yourself.

 

Bill

Yeah, Bernie should have said what a wonderful person and candidate Hillary was. That would make people vote for him. :rolleyes: Ridiculous, all of it.

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Petty machinations took place on both sides in the Democratic primary. Now the Democratic Party needs to decide what principles it should stand for. If it continues to be Republican Lite, the Party is doomed. The Democrats need to offer The People a real choice. The only way for the Democrats to win back government is to offer The People real hope with a concrete agenda of progressive change. That change needs to be away from the Republican platform, not toward it.

 

Taking the lowest political road in human history (angry populism and demagoguery) would be the worst of all paths for the Democratic party.

 

We need to reject authoritarianism, collectivism, and class warfare and maintain the sort of sane maintain liberal leadership that makes our party great.

 

Becoming the left-wing version of the Tea Party (GreenTea Party?) would be a disaster.

 

FDR told people we have nothing to fear but fear itself. That was a message of optimism. In contrast, the Sanderistas spread a message of pessimism, anger, and division.

 

Bernie can't claim the mantle of FDR. FDR understood the perfidy of the left. And they attacked him as a plutocrat in the 1930s just like they attacked HRC as a plutocrat this season. It is all balderdash.

 

Bill

Yeah, Bernie should have said what a wonderful person and candidate Hillary was. That would make people vote for him. :rolleyes: Ridiculous, all of it.

 

You keep evading the truth of Bernie Sanders support for totalitarian movements and dictatorships.

 

I understand why you wish to evade the truth, as it doesn't comport with the false narrative you're attempting to spin, but his record is plain as day.

 

Bill

He endorsed and supported Canova. He didn't fly to Florida to hold his hand. If you don't recall, Bernie was a little busy at that time. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he was a little busy enjoying his new lakefront vacation home paid for with the golden-parachute given his wife by the college her financial mismanagement nearly destroyed with swirling accusations of fraud abounding the whole affair.

 

Must be nice to be a plutocrat. Hypocrisy much?

 

Bill

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