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aidenmalecky

How have you changed since Election Results?

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Just curious what people's experiences have been.

 

For me, personally:

 

- I want to be around like-minded people more than ever, meaning this feels like a call to strengthen bonds with like-minded friends and look to meet more of them.

 

- I really don't feel like being around Trump supporters, more than before the D.T. victory. This makes me sad, because I don't feel like frequenting some of my old hangout places, because I don't want to just act like "everything's fine" because it isn't.

 

- I'm way more interested in listening to African American/Minority focused podcasts ("Sooo many white guys" "Friends Like Us" "Another Round") and reading African American history ("The Sweet Hell Inside").

 

- I'm looking to boycott Trump.

 

- I've researched and joined progressive groups in my local area, but have yet to attend a social event.

 

- I feel a greater responsibility to society than I did pre-election.

 

 

 

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I'm trying harder to understand. I saw no way that Trump could win the Republican nomination. I saw no possibility that he could avoid a complete blowout loss in the general election. Who are these people who voted for him? Why don't I understand them? I tend to pride myself on being able to see both sides of an argument, even if I clearly favor one or the other. But, I really don't see how so many people could vote for Trump.

 

My response is an attempt to fill in the gaps in my understanding. I won't accomplish that by only talking to people who voted for Clinton. Progressives probably aren't going to be able to explain it to me. Even though I live in a red state, my workplace is apolitical. Those of my friends who discuss politics with me are just as lost as I am as to how this could have happened. There are no Trump signs in my neighbors' yards. I don't see Trump bumper stickers. So, I'm missing something. Ii don't understand how 60 million voters can want Donald Trump to be their President. I hope to find out. At present, I'm stumped.

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I discovered that my Wall Street liberal friends here in the Northeast are quite resilient to the suffering of millions of families in Middle America and millions of families in the Middle East, as long as the stock market keeps going up and the price of their house recovers. Neo-liberalism is really as distasteful as neo-conservatism, and I am surrounded by both of them. Too bad Vermont is so cold.

I'm trying harder to understand. I saw no way that Trump could win the Republican nomination. I saw no possibility that he could avoid a complete blowout loss in the general election. Who are these people who voted for him? Why don't I understand them? I tend to pride myself on being able to see both sides of an argument, even if I clearly favor one or the other. But, I really don't see how so many people could vote for Trump.

 

My response is an attempt to fill in the gaps in my understanding. I won't accomplish that by only talking to people who voted for Clinton. Progressives probably aren't going to be able to explain it to me. Even though I live in a red state, my workplace is apolitical. Those of my friends who discuss politics with me are just as lost as I am as to how this could have happened. There are no Trump signs in my neighbors' yards. I don't see Trump bumper stickers. So, I'm missing something. Ii don't understand how 60 million voters can want Donald Trump to be their President. I hope to find out. At present, I'm stumped.

They are suffering from economic repression which is the result of the greatest transfer of wealth and wealth concentration in our history, which began under Clinton and accelerated to its fastest rate under Obama. Where do you think the $10 trillion that Obama spent went to? And who do you think gets to pay off the debt?

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Who are these people who voted for him? Why don't I understand them? I tend to pride myself on being able to see both sides of an argument, even if I clearly favor one or the other. But, I really don't see how so many people could vote for Trump.

 

 

I don't know you from Adam's house cat but I know lots of Democrats who are equally dumbfounded by the election of Donald Trump and the reason is clear....the democrats forgot who their base was when Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union. When the right realized that labor had no teeth and would not even stand up for one another let alone the democratic party standing up for labor. We got more interested in securing rights for individual groups like homo-sexuals and women and forgot that no matter who a person loves or what bathroom they use they must earn a living FIRST....and we have done nothing as a party in years to shore up working people.....in fact we have done things that would ensure that working people are even further marginalized....we have encouraged illegal immigration and claimed it drove up wages (in a perverse way it probably does...when wages have hit rock bottom for everyone they have no where to go but up). We have placed more of an emphasis and effort on health care and retirement than working for a living, we have placed more of an emphasis on the environment than we have jobs, we have put all sorts of shit ahead of the basic requirement of a person being able to feed and house themselves. When Hillary said that we were going to replace coal mining jobs with green energy jobs we had all of the information we needed about the arrogance of the elitist left. Working people can't be retrained without an income....two weeks with no income and most are on the street...it is a brilliant idea to retrain people but you have to do so in a manner where they don't miss a day of work....

 

And here is the truly scary thing for the party....the GOP has found a path to victory that will keep them in power for years to come. As we move forward the demographics that we believed were our saving grace...the increase in minorities...are going to start shifting toward the GOP as they become known, rightly or wrongly, as the party of working people.

 

A person who was born in the wrong body and is more comfortable peeing in one bathroom or another is an important human issue.....that person will forget about where they piss when they are unemployed and facing foreclosure....that person will beg a hateful bastard, even one who is violent toward them, for a scrap of bread when they become desperate enough....and this is how the left went awry....we forgot that no matter what our race, sexual orientation, whatever, at the very foundation we are all WORKING PEOPLE.....and the democratic party has totally forsaken working people which means they have forsaken ALL people at the very basic foundation.....

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I don't know you from Adam's house cat but I know lots of Democrats who are equally dumbfounded by the election of Donald Trump and the reason is clear....the democrats forgot who their base was when Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union. When the right realized that labor had no teeth and would not even stand up for one another let alone the democratic party standing up for labor. We got more interested in securing rights for individual groups like homo-sexuals and women and forgot that no matter who a person loves or what bathroom they use they must earn a living FIRST....and we have done nothing as a party in years to shore up working people.....in fact we have done things that would ensure that working people are even further marginalized....we have encouraged illegal immigration and claimed it drove up wages (in a perverse way it probably does...when wages have hit rock bottom for everyone they have no where to go but up). We have placed more of an emphasis and effort on health care and retirement than working for a living, we have placed more of an emphasis on the environment than we have jobs, we have put all sorts of shit ahead of the basic requirement of a person being able to feed and house themselves. When Hillary said that we were going to replace coal mining jobs with green energy jobs we had all of the information we needed about the arrogance of the elitist left. Working people can't be retrained without an income....two weeks with no income and most are on the street...it is a brilliant idea to retrain people but you have to do so in a manner where they don't miss a day of work....

 

And here is the truly scary thing for the party....the GOP has found a path to victory that will keep them in power for years to come. As we move forward the demographics that we believed were our saving grace...the increase in minorities...are going to start shifting toward the GOP as they become known, rightly or wrongly, as the party of working people.

 

A person who was born in the wrong body and is more comfortable peeing in one bathroom or another is an important human issue.....that person will forget about where they piss when they are unemployed and facing foreclosure....that person will beg a hateful bastard, even one who is violent toward them, for a scrap of bread when they become desperate enough....and this is how the left went awry....we forgot that no matter what our race, sexual orientation, whatever, at the very foundation we are all WORKING PEOPLE.....and the democratic party has totally forsaken working people which means they have forsaken ALL people at the very basic foundation.....

Agreed. Too many people in the Northeast actually believe they end Federal Reserve can print money to prosperity and that speculating on Wall Street is the equivalent of labor production. All that has been happening over the last two decades is money has been transferred from Middle America working families to the Elites in the Northeast and the West Coast. Result: The Working Class backlash.

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Changed? Being even more cynical. Which is pretty bad for my age. I'm just a buck for someone with connections in this god damned fucking shit hole of ours

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I remember going to the democratic caucus and there were more than double the number of people voting. Early voting results indicated a very large turnout against Trump. The polls indicate Hillary will win by a large margin. Now we find out that for no known reason hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of people, who were planning on voting for Hillary the day before magically changed their minds and didn't vote. It was magic that for some strange reason only in swing states that the votes don't match the number of people who think they voted.

 

With all the election fraud in place, enabled by the so called ballot counting machines installed around the nation by the GOP, it is any wonder the republican won?

 

It wasn't magic it was election fraud.

 

Hillary should have immediately filed for a recount. I wonder why she still hasn't.

 

The election was a fraud and no matter how you cut it, not that many people voted for Trump.

 

This is a coup, the overtake of our nation by a bunch of criminals. Why won't Hillary act?

 

I heard that JIll Stein filed for a recount. Even if it fails, it if delays the time before Trump can take office, it will save lives. Hillary should get on board and at least make a half-hearted attempt to stop the destruction of America.

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I don't know you from Adam's house cat but I know lots of Democrats who are equally dumbfounded by the election of Donald Trump and the reason is clear....the democrats forgot who their base was when Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union. When the right realized that labor had no teeth and would not even stand up for one another let alone the democratic party standing up for labor. We got more interested in securing rights for individual groups like homo-sexuals and women and forgot that no matter who a person loves or what bathroom they use they must earn a living FIRST....and we have done nothing as a party in years to shore up working people.....in fact we have done things that would ensure that working people are even further marginalized....we have encouraged illegal immigration and claimed it drove up wages (in a perverse way it probably does...when wages have hit rock bottom for everyone they have no where to go but up). We have placed more of an emphasis and effort on health care and retirement than working for a living, we have placed more of an emphasis on the environment than we have jobs, we have put all sorts of shit ahead of the basic requirement of a person being able to feed and house themselves. When Hillary said that we were going to replace coal mining jobs with green energy jobs we had all of the information we needed about the arrogance of the elitist left. Working people can't be retrained without an income....two weeks with no income and most are on the street...it is a brilliant idea to retrain people but you have to do so in a manner where they don't miss a day of work....

 

And here is the truly scary thing for the party....the GOP has found a path to victory that will keep them in power for years to come. As we move forward the demographics that we believed were our saving grace...the increase in minorities...are going to start shifting toward the GOP as they become known, rightly or wrongly, as the party of working people.

 

A person who was born in the wrong body and is more comfortable peeing in one bathroom or another is an important human issue.....that person will forget about where they piss when they are unemployed and facing foreclosure....that person will beg a hateful bastard, even one who is violent toward them, for a scrap of bread when they become desperate enough....and this is how the left went awry....we forgot that no matter what our race, sexual orientation, whatever, at the very foundation we are all WORKING PEOPLE.....and the democratic party has totally forsaken working people which means they have forsaken ALL people at the very basic foundation.....

 

Outstanding post. Well worth the read. Explains especially well, using real life situations, why economic justice must precede social justice.

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I don't know you from Adam's house cat but I know lots of Democrats who are equally dumbfounded by the election of Donald Trump and the reason is clear....the democrats forgot who their base was when Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union. When the right realized that labor had no teeth and would not even stand up for one another let alone the democratic party standing up for labor. We got more interested in securing rights for individual groups like homo-sexuals and women and forgot that no matter who a person loves or what bathroom they use they must earn a living FIRST....and we have done nothing as a party in years to shore up working people.....in fact we have done things that would ensure that working people are even further marginalized....we have encouraged illegal immigration and claimed it drove up wages (in a perverse way it probably does...when wages have hit rock bottom for everyone they have no where to go but up). We have placed more of an emphasis and effort on health care and retirement than working for a living, we have placed more of an emphasis on the environment than we have jobs, we have put all sorts of shit ahead of the basic requirement of a person being able to feed and house themselves. When Hillary said that we were going to replace coal mining jobs with green energy jobs we had all of the information we needed about the arrogance of the elitist left. Working people can't be retrained without an income....two weeks with no income and most are on the street...it is a brilliant idea to retrain people but you have to do so in a manner where they don't miss a day of work....

 

And here is the truly scary thing for the party....the GOP has found a path to victory that will keep them in power for years to come. As we move forward the demographics that we believed were our saving grace...the increase in minorities...are going to start shifting toward the GOP as they become known, rightly or wrongly, as the party of working people.

 

A person who was born in the wrong body and is more comfortable peeing in one bathroom or another is an important human issue.....that person will forget about where they piss when they are unemployed and facing foreclosure....that person will beg a hateful bastard, even one who is violent toward them, for a scrap of bread when they become desperate enough....and this is how the left went awry....we forgot that no matter what our race, sexual orientation, whatever, at the very foundation we are all WORKING PEOPLE.....and the democratic party has totally forsaken working people which means they have forsaken ALL people at the very basic foundation.....

 

Wrong. We can't allow human rights to be infringed on some sort of economic excuse. Trampling the rights of "homo-sexuals" does nothing (NOT ONE THING) to advance the position of working people.

 

And wrecking the planet isn't a sustainable option. This is not an example of the "arrogance of the elitist left." but sound thinking.

 

Sad day when Trumpist values are in ascendancy on this sub-forum.

 

Bill

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There is a problem in the Democratic Party that just caused it the worst electoral loss in more than a century. Elitist Democratic politicians have pushed a policy of social legislation while, at the same time, exacerbated economic oppression and ignored climate change. If the Democratic Party is to endure, it must support Liberal values, socially, economically and scientifically.

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There is a problem in the Democratic Party that just caused it the worst electoral loss in more than a century. Elitist Democratic politicians have pushed a policy of social legislation while, at the same time, exacerbated economic oppression and ignored climate change. If the Democratic Party is to endure, it must support Liberal values, socially, economically and scientifically.

 

GTMODawg is arguing for burning more coal, which would foul the planet and exacerbate climate change. And for pushing the fight for equal rights for women, "homo-sexuals, and other persecuted minorities to the background.

 

Abandoning liberal values is NOT the answer.

 

Bill

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Abandoning liberal values is NOT the answer.

 

 

 

The Views that most of the "liberal politicians have aren't liberal anymore anyways I thought being a liberal means that you stand for the people not the corporations and the donors that back them up the only true liberals in Washington are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders

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GTMODawg is arguing for burning more coal, which would foul the planet and exacerbate climate change. And for pushing the fight for equal rights for women, "homo-sexuals, and other persecuted minorities to the background.

 

Abandoning liberal values is NOT the answer.

 

Bill

 

I didn't see one word about burning more coal. IMO, what he is basically saying is that if the majority of people are allowed to become Third-World-poor ..... Then worthwhile social liberalization and environmentalism can't succeed because a desperate population will pre-occupied, fighting along ethnic, sexual, racial and religious lines .... Spurred on by demagogues.

 

In order to effectively pursue other important issues, people need a decent standard of living.

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The Views that most of the "liberal politicians have aren't liberal anymore anyways I thought being a liberal means that you stand for the people not the corporations and the donors that back them up the only true liberals in Washington are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders

I agree 100% with this.

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I didn't see one word about burning more coal. IMO, what he is basically saying is that if the majority of people are allowed to become Third-World-poor ..... Then worthwhile social liberalization and environmentalism can't succeed because a desperate population will pre-occupied, fighting along ethnic, sexual, racial and religious lines .... Spurred on by demagogues.

 

In order to effectively pursue other important issues, people need a decent standard of living.

 

Democrats and liberals have a rhetorical commitment women, minorities, and LGBT people. They have not done enough for any of these groups.

 

After supporting the Civil Rights Acts in 1964 , 1965 , and 1968 Liberals and Democrats did nothing about economic inequality tied to race and class. While they have supported affirmative action used by the public and private sector. Most of them have allowed it to be rolled back in the Federal Courts and by voter referendums.

 

They supported Roe v. Wade in the 1970s and the ERA but with states rolling back abortion rights and the defeat of the ERA they haven't done enough to stop those trends or close the gender pay gap and prevent the feminization of poverty among single parent women.

 

There is no actual Federal Civil Rights statute that protects LGBT people in employment, housing, and public places.

 

To many white men both working class and educated any progress by these groups is a threat. Liberals and the Democratic Party should be for working people with equal rights for all. Otherwise we will fail trying to be the populist party only concerned with white men. We had better choose wisely or keep losing.

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I didn't see one word about burning more coal.

 

 

When Hillary said that we were going to replace coal mining jobs with green energy jobs we had all of the information we needed about the arrogance of the elitist left.

IMO, what he is basically saying is that if the majority of people are allowed to become Third-World-poor ..... Then worthwhile social liberalization and environmentalism can't succeed because a desperate population will pre-occupied, fighting along ethnic, sexual, racial and religious lines .... Spurred on by demagogues.

 

In order to effectively pursue other important issues, people need a decent standard of living

People need a decent standard of living. We do not (should not) abandon our committment to human rights or environmental protection due to false dichotomies or suggestions liberal values are standing in the way of economic progress. That's a false choice.

 

Bill

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The Views that most of the "liberal politicians have aren't liberal anymore anyways I thought being a liberal means that you stand for the people not the corporations and the donors that back them up the only true liberals in Washington are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders

 

I like Elizabeth Warren. I wish she was the VP pick this year, and I'd happily support her run if she seeks the office in 2020.

 

Bernie Sanders isn't a liberal; he's a socialist (by his own self-definition).

 

Bill

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I like Elizabeth Warren. I wish she was the VP pick this year, and I'd happily support her run if she seeks the office in 2020.

 

Bernie Sanders isn't a liberal; he's a socialist (by his own self-definition).

 

Bill

But he's the closest we've had to a true liberal in the Whitehouse in a very long time.

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The Democratic party needs to field candidates ready to support both social and economic egalitarianism. As we have just witnessed; one, without the other is a blueprint for failure.

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But he's the closest we've had to a true liberal in the Whitehouse in a very long time.

 

?????

 

Bill

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But he's the closest we've had to a true liberal in the Whitehouse in a very long time.

Sanders talked upon the need for Glass-Steagall and the end to the trade treasures. He also was among the few that voted against the Iraq war, and was dead set against the neo-liberal policies of regime change. He also ran against a rigged economic and political system that grossly favored the top 1% (a point that is well supported by the historically unprecedented transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top 1%). In all manner he spoke for the working families which is why he did so well despite the rigged Democratic primaries.

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Sanders talked upon the need for Glass-Steagall and the end to the trade treasures. He also was among the few that voted against the Iraq war, and was dead set against the neo-liberal policies of regime change. He also ran against a rigged economic and political system that grossly favored the top 1% (a point that is well supported by the historically unprecedented transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top 1%). In all manner he spoke for the working families which is why he did so well despite the rigged Democratic primaries.

 

You don't seem to understand the meaning of the term "neo-liberal."

 

It is another way of saying libertarian.

 

Bill

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You don't seem to understand the meaning of the term "neo-liberal."

 

It is another way of saying libertarian.

 

Bill

 

It is you who are out of step with the modern definition of the term "Neo-Liberal". Today, the term is widely used in print and electronic media to mean Liberals who support the elites and probably want to be ones themselves. No one uses the term Neo Liberal to refer to Libertarians, anymore.

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