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Were the pollsters wrong? Or ...


laripu
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Were all the pollsters wrong? Or ... were people paid to commit fraud? (by someone who had money to throw around, for example)

 

Jus' axin', as they say.

 

How would we know, and what would we do if it was the case?

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I would have to speculate that the pollsters probably were not THAT far wrong. Considering the history of Republican cheating in elections; And now, adding on Trump's condoning of ruthlessness and corruption to his followers, I am guessing there was a lot of fraud, not necessarily for pay. But it there was paid fraud, there are any number of wealthy sources. If there really was enough election fraud to make the pollsters look incompetent, it may come out in the coming weeks and months. In that case, I would imagine the courts would come into play, possibly all the way up to the Supreme Court. We know what happened last time.

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I don't know if you read my posts prior to the election or not, but this was my main worry. Certainly all the pollsters being wrong is a "red" flag that something was wrong.

 

I have been asking for fair open and honest elections since the USSC voided the 2000 election and installed bush in the presidency. I think we had lots of evidence this was going to happen, but that is not proof. I would like an investigation into the ES&S, Diebold, and all the ballot boxes looking for additional evidence. With sufficient evidence, the elections need to be overturned.

 

I suggest that in every voting district in which the polls were significantly different before and on election day be investigated.

 

In my district, my wife voted immediately before me. As you enter the ballot, the scanner registers the number in which you voted. My wife was number 622 and I was number 624. Again, this is suspicious, but not proof of anything. Why did it skip a number? I asked the election judge, and she expected one count per ballot. The judge was reading the numbers and when I asked why a skipped number, she said she must have read it wrong.

 

What would we do? I doubt we would do anything. We have had significant evidence of election fraud in the past and no one seems to care. When I brought it up here, people suggested we need to vote out the republicans, vote in democrats and they can fix the problem. I suggested with all this fraud it is impossible to vote out the republicans.

 

So this is what we are stuck with.

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If there is fraud uncovered, nothing will be done since the Republicans will not let it come to court. based on some of the things Trump has said in the past and including the campaign, I would not be surprised that we may be heading for a dictatorship in this country. I hope I am wrong.

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It would be a big mistake to blame this loss entirely on cheating or voter suppression from the other side. Obama's 2008 and 2012 victories are recent evidence that a large enough majority and high voter turnout overcomes those obstacles.

 

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/9/1594451/-We-don-t-know-and-may-never-how-much-voter-suppression-hurt-us-But-it-wasn-t-the-only-thing?detail=email&link_id=14&can_id=f8af4c57ce54d689fcb905a9ab1b61a8&source=email-the-electoral-disaster-and-the-politics-of-resentment&email_referrer=the-electoral-disaster-and-the-politics-of-resentment___131551&email_subject=we-oppose-everything

- snip -

What we certainly cannot do at this stage, tempting though it may be, is state that—everything else being equal—suppression cost us this election.

Making that assumption would let us off the hook for any failures on our part to connect with voters who did vote, to stir those who didn’t vote to turn out as least as well as they did for Democrats in 2012, to inspire people to a vision of a better future.

We need, of course, to fight all the kinds of voter suppression chronicled by Berman and others, and that my colleague Joan McCarter and I have aggregated and commented on in the War on Voting feature and other posts over the past year and previously. But we should not fool ourselves into believing that voter suppression is the biggest reason we lost Tuesday. There were many factors, and coming to grips with them is going to require major adjustments in our thinking going forward, both ideologically and strategically.

Making those adjustments will first of all require admitting our own mistakes instead of focusing on the mistakes of others. It will require assessing what’s been wrong with our thinking, our approach, our efforts to persuade and organize. It will require choosing what we must change if we are going to limit the grave damage done to the nation by Tuesday’s outcome and give hope to people who will be the victims of President Trump—including many who voted for him.

And if the Democrats are going to survive, it is going to require fully breaking the grip of the Clintons on the party, a grip that was greatly loosened by Tuesday’s crushing defeat.

- snip -

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I agree. There are many complications to a campaign, and many mistakes were made. No one's campaign is perfect, nor expected to be. I am not even saying the loss is due to cheating or voter suppression, but that there is evidence suggesting the cheating was enough to give the election to people who would not have won, had the cheating not occurred.

 

I would like an investigation into the election. At this point I don't believe the results reflect the will of the people. It might and I can be convinced that it does, but an investigation needs to occur. It might be republican fraud, or it might be Russian fraud. It might be fraud from the FBI. It might be a combination of all three, and/or others. I would like to have some confidence as to what happened.

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The voting machine hacks were never fixed. They need the polls to be close to force the vote. There was a court case and the Bush Administration put a gag order on the ruling. And the programmer who created the backdoor for them was supposed to testify just happened to die in a plane crash. At first they said it was record breaking voting and now they are saying it is one of the lowest. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

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If there is fraud uncovered, nothing will be done since the Republicans will not let it come to court. based on some of the things Trump has said in the past and including the campaign, I would not be surprised that we may be heading for a dictatorship in this country. I hope I am wrong.

The Russians WERE meddling.. including probing vote systems. Diebold's vote machines have long been a bit suspect.

Small scale tricks do little on a nationwide election. you'd need to hack the system of a state. Can it be done? Maybe.. but it would be hard. Will REPUBS investigate? Hell no.

 

Interesting how often Trump talked about ' rigged"

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The voting machine hacks were never fixed. They need the polls to be close to force the vote. There was a court case and the Bush Administration put a gag order on the ruling. And the programmer who created the backdoor for them was supposed to testify just happened to die in a plane crash. At first they said it was record breaking voting and now they are saying it is one of the lowest. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Yes, thanks for making this post. I have been making posts like this since bush was installed by the courts, over ruling our election. I can't seem to fathom why so many people think this is perfectly acceptable. When I pushed some a bit, they would respond that we just need to elect enough democrats to change it. No way that can happen.

 

The election was a fraud, and we (at least some of us) knew this before the election happened. The results are not believable.

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Stalin said it best;

 

It doesn't matter who you voted for,

 

What matters is who counts the votes.

 

 

 

 

Investigations will go nowhere, those officials in charge of them are the same ones that okayed the crimes.

Republican state officials won't investigate themselves, neither will Dems.

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I agree that the Russians hacked the US election and primaries in 2016. Vladimir is also suspected of hacking his own election machines. Trump likely didn't even win the primaries, Vladimir is hacking into our voting systems because they are extremely insecure and because he can get away with it. We need to secure each voting machine as if it is a gold bar in a vault.

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I agree that the Russians hacked the US election and primaries in 2016. Vladimir is also suspected of hacking his own election machines. Trump likely didn't even win the primaries, Vladimir is hacking into our voting systems because they are extremely insecure and because he can get away with it. We need to secure each voting machine as if it is a gold bar in a vault.

 

AS long as politicians are in charge of the voting (machines), there will be cheating.

 

I doubt that Russia much to do with out election outcome.

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Whether it was done by Russia, or by someone else, it is clear that fraud was committed. The GOP won't investigate because they benefited tremendously. The democrats won't call for an investigation because they tend to be spineless. They wouldn't know what to do if an investigation uncovered fraud. The democrats refused to go after bush even when for all practical purposes bush admitted torturing prisoners, lied to congress to start his Iraq war, and the list goes on and on.

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Whether it was done by Russia, or by someone else, it is clear that fraud was committed. The GOP won't investigate because they benefited tremendously. The democrats won't call for an investigation because they tend to be spineless. They wouldn't know what to do if an investigation uncovered fraud. The democrats refused to go after bush even when for all practical purposes bush admitted torturing prisoners, lied to congress to start his Iraq war, and the list goes on and on.

 

right on

 

It's been going on for 30-40 years,

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