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Both Hillary and Donald are terrible. To hell with both of them!


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Like many Americans, I suffered through that first presidential debate. If I came away with any conclusion, it was that both of these candidates are terrible and that decent people should refrain from voting for either one.

 

If you must vote, I'd encourage you to vote for a third party candidate. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are both substantially better than Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in my estimation.

 

Trump is a buffoon who knows nothing and Clinton is a corrupt insider whose public record is indefensible. You don't have to settle for such mediocrity. It is not your public duty to vote for either the Republican or Democratic parties. You can abstain from such abominations and take a principled stand against Leviathan (the State).

 

Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War, supported the invasion of Libya and murder of Gaddafi, and is a military hawk whose endorsements include numerous neo-cons and military hawks. Hillary's foreign policy amounts to Dick Cheney-esque aggression. Don't be at all surprised when Hillary launches the next major middle-east war against a helpless third world nation that has done nothing to the United States.

 

Trump is no better. He supports instigating a trade war with our major trading partners. His knowledge of foreign policy is lacking, to put it mildly. He's an authoritarian to the core.

 

 

Why choose between such terrible choices? I suggest you abstain from voting or vote third party, That is what I plan to do and what I suggest you do as well.

 

 

 

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Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War,

 

Why choose between such terrible choices? I suggest you abstain from voting or vote third party, That is what I plan to do and what I suggest you do as well.

Who lied you into this false thinking?

NEVER MIND, THE UNINFORMED VOTER THREW THIS THREAD TO WALL AND LEFT IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER.

 

 

Obviously he was just out advertising for a third party ad wasn't interested in debate or learning from his mistakes.

 

hollysmitharticle_zpskxs03uax.jpg

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Who lied you into this false thinking?

NEVER MIND, THE UNINFORMED VOTER THREW THIS THREAD TO WALL AND LEFT IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER.

 

 

Obviously he was just out advertising for a third party ad wasn't interested in debate or learning from his mistakes.

 

hollysmitharticle_zpskxs03uax.jpg

 

I didn't follow up on this post because I didn't get any replies to this thread before the last couple of days. I'm happy to debate you anytime, anyplace.

 

But let's be clear. Hillary Clinton DID vote for the Iraq War. She changed her tune when the war quickly turned into a disaster and has been criticizing it for many years. But she supported giving Bush the authorization for waging this war initially. This is not exactly breaking news. It's not just Donald Trump that has criticized Hillary for this. Bernie Sanders criticized her for voting for the Iraq War during the primaries and Jill Stein has also been criticizing her for this.

 

Hillary herself has admitted to initially supporting it:

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/07/hillary_clinton_voting_for_iraq_war_was_from_my_perspective_my_mistake.html

 

Oh, I get it. She's sorry, she made a "mistake". A mistake that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, the destruction of an entire nation and the displacement of hundreds of thousands more. A mistake that further destabilized the Middle East, ousting the Secular Saddam Hussein regime and allowing radical, fundamentalist groups like ISIS to take advantage and grow in power and influence.

 

This is on Hillary's record. She needs to own it and so do you. I understand you are passionate about your candidate (God knows why) but you shouldn't ignore reality.

 

It would be bad enough if Hillary made the catastrophic mistake of voting FOR George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq in 2003 given all the death and destruction that followed. But the deeper trouble is that this is simply one instance in a long line of hawkish military actions that Hillary has supported. She supported Obama's foolish escalation of the war in Afghanistan in 2011. She pushed for the overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya, which had predictably disastrous consequences. She is consistently militaristic and reckless when it comes to foreign policy. She supported her husband's brutal economic sanctions and periodic bombings of Iraq during the 1990s, which caused the deaths of 500,000 women and children.

 

She actually pushed for Obama to intervene into Syria a few years back but fortunately Obama, who is a bit less hawkish than Hillary thankfully, listened to public sentiment and resisted starting yet another foolish war. Hillary has consistently been pushing Obama to intervene militarily into more nations.

 

 

If you are voting for Hillary Clinton in November, just remember that you are voting for a Dick Cheney foreign policy. You are voting for a Neo-Con foreign policy.

 

 

Please, educate me on my "mistakes". I'm all ears.

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bump for the green party = the best platform for America

 

I am a libertarian anarchist so I disagree strongly with Jill Stein on her economics. However, she is exceptionally good on foreign policy (she's strongly anti-war). She is excellent on criminal justice reform, on civil liberties and a number of other very important issues.

 

I think Jill Stein is a much better choice than Hillary or Trump. I'm happy to explain to you why her economics are foolish and misguided but I'm also willing to concede that she is terrific on a number of subjects.

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Like many Americans, I suffered through that first presidential debate. If I came away with any conclusion, it was that both of these candidates are terrible and that decent people should refrain from voting for either one.

What a lying pile of bullshit.

 

I am always amazed at how some people, like you, are willing to tell lies because you are paid a few pitiful dollars, and it never seems to occur to any of you what being a paid whore says about you as a person.

 

Jill Ellen Stein is an American physician, activist and politician. She is the Green Party's nominee for President of the United States in the 2016 election.[/size]

Is Stein still hiding out in another state to evade the police on that open arrest warrant on her?

 

After all, she committed the crime ON CAMERA, so it's not as though she can lie about it.

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What a lying pile of bullshit.

 

I am always amazed at how some people, like you, are willing to tell lies because you are paid a few pitiful dollars, and it never seems to occur to any of you what being a paid whore says about you as a person.

 

 

Is Stein still hiding out in another state to evade the police on that open arrest warrant on her?

 

After all, she committed the crime ON CAMERA, so it's not as though she can lie about it.

 

You ought to provide some context for your comments, otherwise they make no sense. Also, labeling my personal opinions of the first debate as "lies" demonstrates that you don't understand the difference between objective truth and opinion. My opinion, as I stated, is that both Hillary and Trump are terrible and reasonable people shouldn't support them. This is my opinion. I have elaborated on precisely why I believe this and I'm happy to expand upon these thoughts. But claiming that this statement is a "lie" is like claiming the statement "blue is my favorite color" is a lie.

 

Which candidate are you supporting? Why are you supporting them? If you reveal this information, then we could have a productive conversation.

 

Furthermore, what makes you think I'm being paid anything for voicing my opinions? I'm not paid a cent by anyone. In fact, as of this very moment, I am not committed to voting for any candidate including Johnson and Stein.

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You ought to provide some context for your comments, otherwise they make no sense.

My words make perfect sense.

 

Also, labeling my personal opinions of the first debate as "lies" demonstrates that you don't understand the difference between objective truth and opinion.

 

Clinton was clam, intelligent, and knowledgeable, with pragmatic, inclusive and well-articulated solutions for the problems facing this country. There was NOTHING in her debate performance for anyone to think she is "horrible", You are lying, and you do it for money. There is a word for people like you.

 

My opinion, as I stated, is that both Hillary and Trump are terrible and reasonable people shouldn't support them. This is my opinion.

 

No, it isn't. You are simply lying for money. If you find this so embarrassing that you have to pretend you aren't doing it, then perhaps you should STOP doing it.

 

I have elaborated on precisely why I believe this and I'm happy to expand upon these thoughts.

 

Your standard con lies about Clinton are irrelevant.

 

But claiming that this statement is a "lie" is like claiming the statement "blue is my favorite color" is a lie.

 

No, it is nothing like that.

 

Which candidate are you supporting? Why are you supporting them? If you reveal this information, then we could have a productive conversation.

 

No, we can't. You are a paid whore with one job - to slander and insult Clinton, and try to trick liberal voters into not voting for her.

 

Furthermore, what makes you think I'm being paid anything for voicing my opinions?

 

You aren't being paid for your opinions. You are being paid to tell lies and spam forums with propaganda.

 

I'm not paid a cent by anyone. In fact, as of this very moment, I am not committed to voting for any candidate including Johnson and Stein.

 

Sure, cupcake.

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What a lying pile of bullshit.

 

I am always amazed at how some people, like you, are willing to tell lies because you are paid a few pitiful dollars, and it never seems to occur to any of you what being a paid whore says about you as a person.

 

 

Is Stein still hiding out in another state to evade the police on that open arrest warrant on her?

 

After all, she committed the crime ON CAMERA, so it's not as though she can lie about it.

Oh, come on, spray painting the blade of a bulldozer is not even the most minor of inconveniences for anyone. There will be no penalty for this, nor should their be.

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Oh, come on, spray painting the blade of a bulldozer is not even the most minor of inconveniences for anyone. There will be no penalty for this, nor should their be.

Your personal opinion has no bearing on the fact that vandalism is a crime. Tell you what, I'll come spray paint all over your house.

 

As it would be the most minor of inconveniences, I'm sure you would tell the police you don't believe there should be any penalty for me.

 

Right?

 

 

Just another example of childish behavior by our POTUS candidates

And that is exactly the point.

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Your personal opinion has no bearing on the fact that vandalism is a crime. Tell you what, I'll come spray paint all over your house.

 

As it would be the most minor of inconveniences, I'm sure you would tell the police you don't believe there should be any penalty for me.

 

Right?

 

 

 

And that is exactly the point.

And at the same time Isabel friends of Clinton are pleading the 5th and getting lawyers and you say nothing...

 

But you're right actually..

Stein shouldn't have done that and she should address it and move on...

 

So I agree with you on this issue

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If you spray paint the blade

 

Your personal opinion has no bearing on the fact that vandalism is a crime. Tell you what, I'll come spray paint all over your house.

As it would be the most minor of inconveniences, I'm sure you would tell the police you don't believe there should be any penalty for me.

Right?

WRONG! My house is not the blade of a bulldozer,. don't be an idiot. The paint would wear off the blade in less than a day.

Stein will not be arrested or even charged. Nor should she be. Just wait and see. There will be no consequences of this. It is stupid to think that there will be.

 

 

I do not plan to vote for her, but really, what she did is in no way any real vandalism. It is less a bother than writing a message with lipstick on a motel bathroom mirror.

 

of a bulldozer, the paint will wear off in less than a day.

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If you spray paint the blade

 

 

of a bulldozer, the paint will wear off in less than a day.

And I agree with you too...

 

Comparing a bull dozer blade and a house are much much different...

 

She should just address the issue and move on...

 

Yes X...If someone painted my house it would be a problem

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Like many Americans, I suffered through that first presidential debate. If I came away with any conclusion, it was that both of these candidates are terrible and that decent people should refrain from voting for either one.

 

If you must vote, I'd encourage you to vote for a third party candidate. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are both substantially better than Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in my estimation.

 

Trump is a buffoon who knows nothing and Clinton is a corrupt insider whose public record is indefensible. You don't have to settle for such mediocrity. It is not your public duty to vote for either the Republican or Democratic parties. You can abstain from such abominations and take a principled stand against Leviathan (the State).

 

Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War, supported the invasion of Libya and murder of Gaddafi, and is a military hawk whose endorsements include numerous neo-cons and military hawks. Hillary's foreign policy amounts to Dick Cheney-esque aggression. Don't be at all surprised when Hillary launches the next major middle-east war against a helpless third world nation that has done nothing to the United States.

 

Trump is no better. He supports instigating a trade war with our major trading partners. His knowledge of foreign policy is lacking, to put it mildly. He's an authoritarian to the core.

 

 

Why choose between such terrible choices? I suggest you abstain from voting or vote third party, That is what I plan to do and what I suggest you do as well.

 

 

 

 

Trump is not a bad choice due to the fact that Trump apparently has many US real estate investments and Trump simply needs to keep the power, water and food systems working.

 

The terrible choice would be one that gets you power, water and food taken away in a mad max war for no reason situation or just by continuing on with crazed socialism-communism that always seems to result in the mad max war zone lifestyle.

 

Third partys can not win the presidential election however if you vote for Trump and then a third party people for local representation you could possibly get less war and some type of local representation. Not voting is going to give the election to Hillery. Trumps votes are not necessarily republicans who have developed anti-local tendency's,

 

Holy Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do you, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls.

 

Patron against communism is St. Joseph

 

 

US Constitution, Article 4, Section 4:

 

“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;”

 

We favor a moratorium on immigration to the United States, except in extreme hardship cases or in other individual special circumstances, until the availability of all federal subsidies and assistance be discontinued, and proper security procedures have been instituted to protect against terrorist infiltration.

We also insist that every individual group and/or private agency which requests the admission of an immigrant to the U.S., on whatever basis, be required to commit legally to provide housing and sustenance for such immigrants, bear full responsibility for the economic independence of the immigrants, and post appropriate bonds to seal such covenants.

The Constitution Party demands that the federal government restore immigration policies based on the practice that potential immigrants will be disqualified from admission to the U.S. if, on the grounds of health, criminality, morals, or financial dependence, they would impose an improper burden on the United States, any state, or any citizen of the United States.

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I think that prayers to Saint Joseph (the patron against Communism? Really?) are a violation to the separation of Church and State.

Is there a patron saint against mosquitoes? Malaria, Dengue Fever, Yellow Fever, Chikanguya and now Zika are a greater threat to the human race than Communism or any ideology.

 

The Constitution Party is a joke.

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I think that prayers to Saint Joseph (the patron against Communism? Really?) are a violation to the separation of Church and State.

Is there a patron saint against mosquitoes? Malaria, Dengue Fever, Yellow Fever, Chikanguya and now Zika are a greater threat to the human race than Communism or any ideology.

 

The Constitution Party is a joke.

 

This is not TV so I can do prayers and speak the name of Jesus etc. The prayers may be the only thing that are not a complete wast of time here.

 

Hurricane hitting your area?

 

There is nothing better for man than to eat and drink and provide himself with good things

by his labors. Even this, I realized, is from the hand of God. – Ecclesiastes 2:24

 

 

Medical preventative treatment sales hype. I was probably bitten by mosquitoes 100s of times this year with no problem. Better health conditions come from cleaner conditions, refrigeration with better food and water and now internet health information and nutritional knowledge of herbs etc.

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I didn't follow up on this post because I didn't get any replies to this thread before the last couple of days. I'm happy to debate you anytime, anyplace.

 

But let's be clear. Hillary Clinton DID vote for the Iraq War. She changed her tune when the war quickly turned into a disaster and has been criticizing it for many years. But she supported giving Bush the authorization for waging this war initially. This is not exactly breaking news. It's not just Donald Trump that has criticized Hillary for this. Bernie Sanders criticized her for voting for the Iraq War during the primaries and Jill Stein has also been criticizing her for this.

 

Hillary herself has admitted to initially supporting it:

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/07/hillary_clinton_voting_for_iraq_war_was_from_my_perspective_my_mistake.html

 

Oh, I get it. She's sorry, she made a "mistake". A mistake that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, the destruction of an entire nation and the displacement of hundreds of thousands more. A mistake that further destabilized the Middle East, ousting the Secular Saddam Hussein regime and allowing radical, fundamentalist groups like ISIS to take advantage and grow in power and influence.

 

This is on Hillary's record. She needs to own it and so do you. I understand you are passionate about your candidate (God knows why) but you shouldn't ignore reality.

 

It would be bad enough if Hillary made the catastrophic mistake of voting FOR George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq in 2003 given all the death and destruction that followed. But the deeper trouble is that this is simply one instance in a long line of hawkish military actions that Hillary has supported. She supported Obama's foolish escalation of the war in Afghanistan in 2011. She pushed for the overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya, which had predictably disastrous consequences. She is consistently militaristic and reckless when it comes to foreign policy. She supported her husband's brutal economic sanctions and periodic bombings of Iraq during the 1990s, which caused the deaths of 500,000 women and children.

 

She actually pushed for Obama to intervene into Syria a few years back but fortunately Obama, who is a bit less hawkish than Hillary thankfully, listened to public sentiment and resisted starting yet another foolish war. Hillary has consistently been pushing Obama to intervene militarily into more nations.

 

 

If you are voting for Hillary Clinton in November, just remember that you are voting for a Dick Cheney foreign policy. You are voting for a Neo-Con foreign policy.

 

 

Please, educate me on my "mistakes". I'm all ears.

She added, “This is a difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make. Any vote that may lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction. … My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism or for the arrogance of American power or purpose.” A vote for the resolution, she argued, “is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our president. And we say to him: Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.”

 

It is also important to note she acknowledged the mistake of ever trusting Bush, the rest of Congress was ball less.

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She added, “This is a difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make. Any vote that may lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction. … My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism or for the arrogance of American power or purpose.” A vote for the resolution, she argued, “is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our president. And we say to him: Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.”

 

It is also important to note she acknowledged the mistake of ever trusting Bush, the rest of Congress was ball less.

Didn't her husband say Iraq had WMDs too Shintao?

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I think that prayers to Saint Joseph (the patron against Communism? Really?) are a violation to the separation of Church and State.

Is there a patron saint against mosquitoes? Malaria, Dengue Fever, Yellow Fever, Chikanguya and now Zika are a greater threat to the human race than Communism or any ideology.

 

The Constitution Party is a joke.

King Henry VIII’s Herbalist Charter of 1542.

 

HEALTHCARE CHOICE IS A NATURAL RIGHT SECURED BY COMMON LAW and backed by the Nuremberg code of informed consent etc.

 

 

The school is public and so is the child? Or is that the School is public but not the child?

 

 

“An Act that Persons, Being No Common Surgeons, May Administer Outward Medicines”

 

“Where in the Parliament holden at Westminster in the third Year of the King’s most gracious Reign, amongst other Things, for the avoiding of Sorceries, Witchcrafts and other Inconveniences, it was enacted, that no Person within the City of London, nor within Seven Miles of the same, should take upon him to exercise and occupy as Physician or Surgeon, except he be first examined, approved, and admitted by the Bishop of London and other, under and upon certain Pains and Penalties in the same Act mentioned;

 

“Sithence the making of which said Act, the Company and Fellowship of Surgeons of London, minding only their own Lucres and nothing the Profit or ease of the Diseased or Patient, have sued, troubled and vexed divers honest Persons, as well as Men and Women, whom God hath endued with the Knowledge of the Nature, Kind and Operation of certain Herbs, Roots and Waters, and the using and ministering of them to such as been pained with customable Diseases, as Women’s Breasts beings sore, a Pin and the Web in the Eye, Uncomis of Hands, Burnings, Scaldings, Sore Mouths, the Stone, Strangury, Saucelim and Morphew, and such other like Diseases; and yet the said Persons have not taken anything for their Pains or Cunning, but have ministered the same to poor People only for Neighborhood and God’s sake, and of Pity and Charity:

 

“And it is now well known that the Surgeons admitted will do no Cure to any Person but where they shall be rewarded with a greater Sum or Reward that the Cure extendeth unto; for in the case they would minister the Cunning unto sore People unrewarded, there should not so many rot and perish to death for Lack or Help of Surgery as daily do; but the greatest part of Surgeons admitted been much more to be blamed than those Persons that they troubled, for although the most Part of the Persons of the said Craft of Surgeons have small Cunning yet they will take great sums of Money, and do little therefore, and by Reason thereof they do oftentimes impair and hurt their Patients, rather than do them good.

 

“In consideration whereof, and for the Ease, Comfort, Succour, Help, Relief and Health of the King’s poor Subjects, Inhabitants of this Realm, now pained or diseased:

 

“Be it ordained, established and enacted, by Authority of this present Parliament, That at all Time from henceforth it shall be lawful to every Person being the King’s subject, having Knowledge and Experience of the Nature of Herbs, Roots and Waters, or of the Operation of the same, by Speculation or Practice, within any part of the Realm of England, or within any other the King’s Dominions, to practice, use and minister in and to any outward Sore, Uncome Wound, Aposelmations, outward Swelling or Disease, any Herb or Herbs, Ointments, Baths, Pultess, and Emplaisters, according to their Cunning, Experience and Knowledge in any of the Diseases, Sorea and Maladies beforesaid, and all other like to the same, or Drinks for the Stone, Strangury or Agues, without suit, vexation, trouble, penalty or loss of their goods;

 

“The foresaid Statute in the foresaid Third Year of the King’s most gracious Reign, or any other Act, Ordinance or Statues the contrary heretofore made in anywise, not withstanding.”

 

 

http://silverbulletin.utopiasilver.com/healthcare-choice-is-a-right-secured-by-common-law-2/

 

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Like many Americans, I suffered through that first presidential debate. If I came away with any conclusion, it was that both of these candidates are terrible and that decent people should refrain from voting for either one.

 

If you must vote, I'd encourage you to vote for a third party candidate. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are both substantially better than Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in my estimation.

 

Trump is a buffoon who knows nothing and Clinton is a corrupt insider whose public record is indefensible. You don't have to settle for such mediocrity. It is not your public duty to vote for either the Republican or Democratic parties. You can abstain from such abominations and take a principled stand against Leviathan (the State).

 

Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War, supported the invasion of Libya and murder of Gaddafi, and is a military hawk whose endorsements include numerous neo-cons and military hawks. Hillary's foreign policy amounts to Dick Cheney-esque aggression. Don't be at all surprised when Hillary launches the next major middle-east war against a helpless third world nation that has done nothing to the United States.

Trump is no better. He supports instigating a trade war with our major trading partners. His knowledge of foreign policy is lacking, to put it mildly. He's an authoritarian to the core.

Why choose between such terrible choices? I suggest you abstain from voting or vote third party, That is what I plan to do and what I suggest you do as well.

Standard operating procedure. What makes you think third party would change anything other than translating doing the same thing with different intentional outcomes?

 

Being able to define the same thing infinite ways doesn't change the one thing being defined infinite ways. What one thing spaces everything apart eternally as existed or existing here now? No caricatures of what if, just the functions of what does keep everything in relative position naturally, kinetically?

 

Eternity isn't any larger than now. Can you wrap your academic imagination around that tiny perception? Bet you won't try.

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