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So I was arguing with a Pro life activist and she said something down


LiberaLIslam
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As the titles suggests, I was arguing with a pro life activist on facebook when she just said something down right idiotic.

 

She said and I quote: If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

 

I was dumbfounded. How can some be so idiotic?

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She said and I quote: If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

 

It is a direct quote from former representative Todd Akin of Missouri. Each part of the sentence is deceiving. The statement completely contradicts factual reality in an attempt to condone rape and pretend that biological insemination is self-regulatory.

 

Akin is an extreme pro-right wing ideologue and anti-abortion extremist.

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It is a direct quote from former representative Todd Akin of Missouri. Each part of the sentence is deceiving. The statement completely contradicts factual reality in an attempt to condone rape and pretend that biological insemination is self-regulatory.

 

Akin is an extreme pro-right wing ideologue and anti-abortion extremist.

 

By "legitimate rape", Akin meant that the person was really raped, not that they were a willing participant and then later made a mendacious claim of rape. I would imagine that by this definition, almost all claims of rape are real. Medical examination will reveal signs of violence consistent with force. DNA evidence in semen or hair will lead to an attacker that is often unknown to the victim.

 

Akin's idea that "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down" shows either a profound ignorance of biology or a willingness to brazenly lie about such things for political gain. Maybe both.

 

To force a woman to unwillingly carry a baby resulting from rape, when abortion is a relatively quick and safe procedure, is unnecessary cruelty. I suppose it's less bad than the honor killings of rape victims that you hear about in the middle east and Pakistan. But it is cruelty nonetheless.

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As the titles suggests, I was arguing with a pro life activist on facebook when she just said something down right idiotic.

 

She said and I quote: If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

 

I was dumbfounded. How can some be so idiotic?

Alot of people are the mind set if told by an authority or fellow memebers of the tribe if 5 plus 5 equals horse pineapple donkey pines, they will try to make horse pineapple donkey pines fit. Logic and validity be damned. A dishonest leader can only exist if the majority of the populace is dishonest.

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Also ... LiberalIslam ... (can I call you LI ??) It will be interesting to see your opinions on these web pages. I look forward to it. :)

Yeah, you can call me that, i don't mind :). Funny you should mention honour killings. I used to be active on this account and then lost my password and interest. Getting back on the topic of honour Killing. You might know that today is Eid-ul-Adha. I am currrently in my mother's village, somewhere near Lahore. When we got here tensions were running high because apparently a girl(17 year old) was seen holding hands with a male(20 year old). People had grouped together with pichforks and what not to kill the girl(apparently the boy ran away. But personally I think they are hiding him). Before my mother and my maternal grandfather migrated to the city, my grandpa was the chief of the village. He died in 2012(I still miss you grandpa). But my mother still has a lot of clout in the area. So she calmed the crowd for the time being. We are keeping her in her house and most probably will take her back to Islamabad with us and away from these monsters. She still hasn't eaten anything. The first thing, she said when I walked into the room was "Please, don't hurt me"(translated from punjabi). My heart was totally crushed after hearing this. There is a big NGO, that specializes in this sort of thing back in Islamabad. They provide housing and education and find them jobs. I am just hoping that this gets posted because I am writing this on 2g.

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Alot of people are the mind set if told by an authority or fellow memebers of the tribe if 5 plus 5 equals horse pineapple donkey pines, they will try to make horse pineapple donkey pines fit. Logic and validity be damned..

 

Much truth in that. The human mind is capable of unending self-deception in return for social acceptance. Education, that includes critical thinking, helps people to reject power hungry leaders who would exploit them by deception .... Usually by making extravagant and empty promises.

 

 

A dishonest leader can only exist if the majority of the populace is dishonest.

 

Usually a dishonest leader relies on fooling the ignorant and gullible, who cannot distinguish self-promotion from a desire to do public service. Such people tend to value the most rosy promises above realistic goals.

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Much truth in that. The human mind is capable of unending self-deception in return for social acceptance. Education, that includes critical thinking, helps people to reject power hungry leaders who would exploit them by deception .... Usually

How have you been bludog?

 

Amen to that. This reminds of a poet who's name I forgot, he and group of "thinkers" used to live in the golden age of Islam. He used to say that numbers were the work of the devil(the guy was crazy if you ask me). He would go around urging people to join his special group of "thinkers" and people ofcourse people wanted to feel special and hence wanted to join this special group. The only requirement to join this brain dead group was to believe that numbers were the work of the devil and to forsake education. This was one of the reasons for the decline of the Islamic golden era.

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Usually a dishonest leader relies on fooling the ignorant and gullible, who cannot distinguish self-promotion from a desire to do public service. Such people tend to value the most rosy promises above realistic goals

I am actually convinced the followers produce the leaders. Leaders are nothing more then sale persons. They cant give you what you aint wanting.

 

For example, I doubt I could convince you to vote for a Republican. No way no how. I am sure as heck think you would be more then willing to vote for some one is of the left.

 

A person born and raised in a democratic strong hold who wants power and a career in politics would more likely become democratic out of self interest. They are less likely to become republican because that would be against their self interest.

 

All changes come from the bottom up. Not top down.

 

 

 

Education, that includes critical thinking,

Education and the places that dispense it often have a nasty habit turning into indoctrination machines.

 

 

This reminds of a poet who's name I forgot, he and group of "thinkers" used to live in the golden age of Islam. He used to say that numbers were the work of the devil

You should look up fraud in the true crime section. It is a surprise how often the victims defend the con jobs that abuse them and turn on the people trying to save the victims.

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I am just hoping that this gets posted because I am writing this on 2g.

LI, Not only did that get posted, it all got posted. That tells us that technology works, even old technology like 2G. Tech proves it's value; it's objective.

 

Faith in religions, always subjective, brings no practical result, and is often used as an excuse for cruelty by the extremist elements of any religion. Your example, the "legitimate rape" quote from Todd Akin, whose post-graduate education consists of a religious degree, is one good example. He opposes abortion on religious grounds. Honor killings are another example. I am an atheist Jew, and my faith tradition also has these kinds of cruel extremes. This story is an example, a 17-year-old girl whose parents cast her out on the streets of New York City for the 'crime' of exchanging letters with a boy. Again: cruelty in the name of religion.

 

I see that every religion tends toward an extreme expression. Some worse in degree, but not in kind: killing is worse than casting a teenager out of the family, which is worse than denial of abortion, but they're all cruelty in the name of some religion. This tells me that the problem isn't this religious extremism, or that religious extremism, but rather all human activity classified as religious, irrespective of the religion. The human activity we call religion always tends toward extremism, always ends up wrong.

 

Here's why: if holiness is important to a community, then it's human nature to compete to show more holiness. If x is good, then XXXX must be better. That's how we get the tendency toward religious extremism.

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Yeah, you can call me that, i don't mind :). Funny you should mention honour killings. I used to be active on this account and then lost my password and interest. Getting back on the topic of honour Killing. You might know that today is Eid-ul-Adha. I am currrently in my mother's village, somewhere near Lahore. When we got here tensions were running high because apparently a girl(17 year old) was seen holding hands with a male(20 year old). People had grouped together with pichforks and what not to kill the girl(apparently the boy ran away. But personally I think they are hiding him). Before my mother and my maternal grandfather migrated to the city, my grandpa was the chief of the village. He died in 2012(I still miss you grandpa). But my mother still has a lot of clout in the area. So she calmed the crowd for the time being. We are keeping her in her house and most probably will take her back to Islamabad with us and away from these monsters. She still hasn't eaten anything. The first thing, she said when I walked into the room was "Please, don't hurt me"(translated from punjabi). My heart was totally crushed after hearing this. There is a big NGO, that specializes in this sort of thing back in Islamabad. They provide housing and education and find them jobs. I am just hoping that this gets posted because I am writing this on 2g.

 

Such hate because of teens, a boy and girl, holding hands in public. Here, it would be considered the most innocent of acts and warm the hearts of most people. Not that the Judeo-Christian religions don't have their own senseless, barbaric prejudices.

 

I am glad to hear that your family still carries some influence and prestige from the time when your grandpa was chief of the village. I worry about your safety, in such a religiously-charged, conservative region. With your Liberal views and good works, like protecting this girl, it sounds like you could easily become a target for assassination.

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How have you been bludog?

 

Amen to that. This reminds of a poet who's name I forgot, he and group of "thinkers" used to live in the golden age of Islam. He used to say that numbers were the work of the devil(the guy was crazy if you ask me). He would go around urging people to join his special group of "thinkers" and people ofcourse people wanted to feel special and hence wanted to join this special group. The only requirement to join this brain dead group was to believe that numbers were the work of the devil and to forsake education. This was one of the reasons for the decline of the Islamic golden era.

 

Hi LiberaLIslam. The world would be very different, for the better, if the golden age of Islam had continued to flourish. Its downfall sounds reminiscent of the present-day rejection of science by conservatives, here in the US. Only time will tell if their atavistic, simplistic views prevail over enlightenment.

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With your Liberal views and good works, like protecting this girl, it sounds like you could easily become a target for assassination.

Ahh yes, I have a theory describing this process. I call it poison theory in honor of Socrates. Socrates being a symbol of the process you just mentioned. Good, smart and decent people (like socrates) end up doing good things. This irks the mob (common folk) . Through the process of evolution, the mob ends up killing off all good, smart, decent people weeding them out of the gene people, which leaves the unquestioning idiots in the majority.

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Ahh yes, I have a theory describing this process. I call it poison theory in honor of Socrates. Socrates being a symbol of the process you just mentioned. Good, smart and decent people (like socrates) end up doing good things. This irks the mob (common folk) . Through the process of evolution, the mob ends up killing off all good, smart, decent people weeding them out of the gene people, which leaves the unquestioning idiots in the majority.

 

Locally, that's true. But overall, and globally, the world has gotten smarter and better (i.e. more moral and what's more important, more morally subtle).

 

(Edit to add: ... and this, of course, coincides with the waning of religion. You can't learn anything new if everything is already in the book. "depending on which book you're using at the time...can't use theirs... it don't work...it's all lies...gotta use mine...")

 

Not that there aren't still many more violent dolts. But it seems like for 50 years their power has been waning, and now they're in reaction. it has taken them this long to see that the world around them has changed.

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I am actually convinced the followers produce the leaders. Leaders are nothing more then sale persons. They cant give you what you aint wanting.

 

For example, I doubt I could convince you to vote for a Republican. No way no how. I am sure as heck think you would be more then willing to vote for some one is of the left.

 

A person born and raised in a democratic strong hold who wants power and a career in politics would more likely become democratic out of self interest. They are less likely to become republican because that would be against their self interest.

 

Some leaders are sincere in what the tell their followers. Others deceitful, telling their followers what they think will sell, in order to gain power and wealth. In both cases, the followers are told, more or less, what they want to hear. A sincere leader is more likely to be a product of his followers than a deceitful one who imposes an entirely different agenda once in office.

 

This works for Democrats or Republicans. In fact, all parties and persuasions.

 

All changes come from the bottom up. Not top down.

 

This is the way it should be; Often not the way it is. When demagogues seize power by false promises, they impose their own agenda, from the top down.

 

Education and the places that dispense it often have a nasty habit turning into indoctrination machines.

 

ALL education involves indoctrination, more or less. That doesn't mean society should give up on quality education.

 

Literacy, reading skills, math skills, literature, history, science, familiarity with the ideas of the great thinkers of the past, and a grasp of the scientific method, are all intellectual tools which help people distinguish: Fact from falsehood .... Reality from superstition .... Leaders of integrity from demagogues.

 

When education is used mainly for religious and political indoctrination, quality of education suffers. The victims of that kind of education often emerge as fanatics, ill-equipped to distinguish pretense from reality.

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Locally, that's true. But overall, and globally, the world has gotten smarter and better (i.e. more moral and what's more important, more morally subtle).

 

Then by that logic there should be no inequality of any sort.

 

 

Some leaders are sincere in what the tell their followers. Others deceitful, telling their followers what they think will sell, in order to gain power and wealth

Do realize I have my own unique position. It seems the convo we are having is heading towards the direction of explaining iit. Ill respond to those points later.

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Locally, that's true. But overall, and globally, the world has gotten smarter and better (i.e. more moral and what's more important, more morally subtle).

 

 

Then by that logic there should be no inequality of any sort.

 

You may be confusing "more moral" with "perfectly moral"; the latter state doesn't exist.

 

Also, you appear to be saying that perfect equality more morally preferable than some inequality. I dispute that. As long as some people are more talented and work harder than others, there should be some inequality. How much inequality there should be is a matter of dispute. Most of us, including myself, think the US has too much inequality at the moment.

 

To back up my previous assertion that we're more moral and more morally subtle overall, I'll quote the facts below.

Over the last 100 years:

  • the amount of slavery in the world has greatly diminished
  • the number of countries in which has risen greatly
  • the number of countries in which women can vote has risen greatly
  • most countries have abolished the death penalty
  • most countries no longer deem homosexual acts to be a crime
  • most countries have arranged themselves so that the standard of living has risen. Overall, globally the average standard of living has dramatically improved.
  • most countries have arranged themselves so that infant mortality rate has dropped. Overall, globally the average nfant mortality rate has dramatically improved.
  • etc ... because I'm getting bored documenting what should be obvious.
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With your Liberal views and good works, like protecting this girl, it sounds like you could easily become a target for assassination.

Thanks mate. I do get scared at nights thinking that one day, I might get killed. I find solace in the fact that my deeds could at least bring some happiness to some people. It irks me that people have gone blind in the haze of stupidity and extremist behaviour.

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Thanks mate. I do get scared at nights thinking that one day, I might get killed.

As a civilized man in an uncivilized country, you will always run that risk. You risk that even more because of your blog: there you're telling the ignorant that their understanding of their religion is incorrect. That's a dangerous hobby anywhere, more so there.

 

My advice: find a way to move to a country where you have a chance to live in peace.

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I was looking for my post in another section but dafur spams everything up.

 

 

 

I see that every religion tends toward an extreme expression

Every ideal may it be religious or not ends up finding an extreme expression. Including liberalism. This is do to the innate urge of people to "one up" other. There are other reasons but this is the most easy one to articulate. Extremism is the root of all inequality and all sorts of opressions.

 

 

You may be confusing "more moral" with "perfectly moral"; the latter state doesn't exist.

Yes it does. We as a species just refuse to allow it to come into being for the same reason a heroin addict doesnt want to get sober. moral perfection exists and it can come into being own it own accord, with no effort. We as a species just don't want it. We actively fight it at every turn.

 

 

Most of us, including myself, think the US has too much inequality at the moment.

All you consider "bad" is a "phantom" really. The quickest way to dispel a phantom is get rid of the psychological patterns within the populace that allow it to manifest. Once done, the rest will sort it self out. The word phantom is symbolic of course.

 

 

etc ... because I'm getting bored documenting what should be obvious

Not the standards Im looking for. As long the roots for these things remain, they shall come back with a vengeance.

 

 

Locally, that's true. But overall, and globally, the world has gotten smarter and better (i.e. more moral and what's more important, more morally subtle)

No the process has been going for some time and its still ongoing. No one is trying to reverse it. So things are going just keep getting nastier. Just to those under the influence of the process, It seems to be getting better. Not really. It just suppressing the nasty for a while then it all comes back eventually. Ying Yang sort of view.

 

 

men to that. This reminds of a poet who's name I forgot, he and group of "thinkers" used to live in the golden age of Islam. He used to say that numbers were the work of the devil(the guy was crazy if you ask me). He would go around urging people to join his special group of "thinkers" and people ofcourse people wanted to feel special and hence wanted to join this special group. The only requirement to join this brain dead group was to believe that numbers were the work of the devil and to forsake education. This was one of the reasons for the decline of the Islamic golden era.

 

When you figure out the name of the poet, let me know please? That the sort of pattern I base my views on. I classify people according to three types. The Sages (Like Socrates) The Machiavellians, and the bug chasers (or witless Im not sure which is best yet).

 

What is the anime of your avatar from?

 

 

When education is used mainly for religious and political indoctrination, quality of education suffers. The victims of that kind of education often emerge as fanatics, ill-equipped to distinguish pretense from reality.

If you wish to avoid education being corrupted, you must prevent those prone fro despoiling it ever from teaching it.

 

 

This is the way it should be; Often not the way it is. When demagogues seize power by false promises, they impose their own agenda, from the top down.

Leaders are salespeople. The only way the get power is by giving those they influence what they want. In North Kora, the society is changing because they no longer want to be lied to. So they are ignoring the kims. Now the power is shifting to the Donju

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I was looking for my post in another section but dafur spams everything up.

 

 

Every ideal may it be religious or not ends up finding an extreme expression. Including liberalism. This is do to the innate urge of people to "one up" other. There are other reasons but this is the most easy one to articulate. Extremism is the root of all inequality and all sorts of opressions.

 

Yes it does. We as a species just refuse to allow it to come into being for the same reason a heroin addict doesnt want to get sober. moral perfection exists and it can come into being own it own accord, with no effort. We as a species just don't want it. We actively fight it at every turn.

 

All you consider "bad" is a "phantom" really. The quickest way to dispel a phantom is get rid of the psychological patterns within the populace that allow it to manifest. Once done, the rest will sort it self out. The word phantom is symbolic of course.

 

Not the standards Im looking for. As long the roots for these things remain, they shall come back with a vengeance.

 

No the process has been going for some time and its still ongoing. No one is trying to reverse it. So things are going just keep getting nastier. Just to those under the influence of the process, It seems to be getting better. Not really. It just suppressing the nasty for a while then it all comes back eventually. Ying Yang sort of view.

 

 

When you figure out the name of the poet, let me know please? That the sort of pattern I base my views on. I classify people according to three types. The Sages (Like Socrates) The Machiavellians, and the bug chasers (or witless Im not sure which is best yet).

 

What is the anime of your avatar from?

 

If you wish to avoid education being corrupted, you must prevent those prone fro despoiling it ever from teaching it.

 

Leaders are salespeople. The only way the get power is by giving those they influence what they want. In North Kora, the society is changing because they no longer want to be lied to. So they are ignoring the kims. Now the power is shifting to the Donju

 

DragonWine:-- The Liberal's Only Room is, as the name states, for Liberals only. I can't detect a central political core belief from anything you've said so far. From what I can tell, your comments are merely quarrelsome, random contradictions and range from the painfully obvious to the obtuse. No Holds Barred is the place to heckle people for amusement. Not the Liberal's Only Room.

 

Regulars in the LO Rm other than DragonWine:-- If I am missing something, please clue me in.

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How have you been bludog?

 

Amen to that. This reminds of a poet who's name I forgot, he and group of "thinkers" used to live in the golden age of Islam. He used to say that numbers were the work of the devil(the guy was crazy if you ask me). He would go around urging people to join his special group of "thinkers" and people ofcourse people wanted to feel special and hence wanted to join this special group. The only requirement to join this brain dead group was to believe that numbers were the work of the devil and to forsake education. This was one of the reasons for the decline of the Islamic golden era.

I think the poet you mentioned might be Imam Abu Hamid Al Ghazali. There is some diospute about how much of the blame he deserves for the fall of Baghdad as an intellectual center.

More can be found here: https://www.quora.com/Which-Islamic-scholar-from-the-Golden-Age-decried-math-as-of-the-devil

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