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ScottMon

Why Aren't We Outraged?

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No, I did the neg rep because I was frustrated that you seem to believe everything was 100% fair and balanced....and that no favoritism occurred. My position is the same as hundreds of thousands of Bernie supporters (not to mention many media outlets), so I know I'm not losing my shit.

 

Maybe I'm just lousy at expressing my opinion on this one, I don't know.

 

On the flip side, I gave you a + rep the other day that I didn't intend to. :D Call it even?

I am aware that many people are up in arms about the DNC, but none to my satisfaction can name anything substantive that harmed Bernie Sanders vote-getting abilities (which were damn impressive, all things considered). I know it is hard to have a camaign one believes in not prevail. I've been thee myself, and I'm not heartless.

 

I do not, however, believe it is reasonable to expect people so invested in politics that they are working for the DNC not to favor candidates in presidental races. When favoring someone crosses the line into cheating, I would condemn it (and strongly). But I see nothing of the kind here.

 

And a flurry of red dots from you, a person I've come to respect—even when we have disagreements, doesn't give me a good feeling.

 

Bill

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I am aware that many people are up in arms about the DNC, but none to my satisfaction can name anything substantive that harmed Bernie Sanders vote-getting abilities (which were damn impressive, all things considered). I know it is hard to have a camaign one believes in not prevail. I've been thee myself, and I'm not heartless.

 

I do not, however, believe it is reasonable to expect people so invested in politics that they are working for the DNC not to favor candidates in presidental races. When favoring someone crosses the line into cheating, I would condemn it (and strongly). But I see nothing of the kind here.

 

And a flurry of red dots from you, a person I've come to respect—even when we have disagreements, doesn't give me a good feeling.

 

Bill

Well, I apologize for the neg reps. Like I said, I was frustrated. In fact, my frustration over this caused me to stay off the forum all last week. I wasn't going to come back but decided to give it another try.

 

How about we just leave this one and agree to disagree? Because you aren't going to change my mind....and I'm obviously not going to change yours. Fair enough?

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Well, I apologize for the neg reps. Like I said, I was frustrated. In fact, my frustration over this caused me to stay off the forum all last week. I wasn't going to come back but decided to give it another try.

 

How about we just leave this one and agree to disagree? Because you aren't going to change my mind....and I'm obviously not going to change yours. Fair enough?

Sure.

 

Bill

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I still consider what the DNC did to be dirty pool.

Then everyone on earth plays "dirty pool" - including you.

 

Me, too, Scott....but I'm not going to continue to argue this with Isabel.

She wins.

We aren't arguing. You keep making accusations, I keep telling you to provide evidence of an actual ACT that took place, and you keep doing everything you can to avoid addressing that question.

 

No, I did the neg rep because I was frustrated that you seem to believe everything was 100% fair and balanced....

You do love your strawman, don't you.

 

and that no favoritism occurred. My position is the same as hundreds of thousands of Bernie supporters (not to mention many media outlets), so I know I'm not losing my shit.

 

His position is that you cannot seem to support your accusations with evidence.

 

Maybe I'm just lousy at expressing my opinion on this one, I don't know.

 

He isn't asking for your opinion. He is asking for evidence to support your claims.

 

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Then everyone on earth plays "dirty pool" - including you.

 

I have a job that requires objectivity in my contacts. I do my job even if I'm totally repulsed by the person I'm working with. I would hope the DNC would bide by its own charter and do the same.

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I have a job that requires objectivity in my contacts. I do my job even if I'm totally repulsed by the person I'm working with. I would hope the DNC would bide by its own charter and do the same.

How did they not do their job?

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I'm Outraged!!!

This isn't fair or democratic!!!

 

That felt good, kinda like primal scream therapy.

Now, what should we do?

a few people sent bad emails and.. got fired. it did not alter the fact Hillary had way more votes. If anything.. it was a surprise Bernie was in this as much.

 

Get over it. Bernie pushed Hillary further left/prog. Hillary had DECADES as a national Figure. Unless you were in Vermont or watched MSNBC a lot.. you do not know anything about Bernie.

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How did they not do their job?

They showed bias and favoritism to Hilary. They broke faith with their own members by side stepping their own by-laws.

 

Bernie was never going to win, but He and his representatives should have been shown fair and objective treatment.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html

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They showed bias and favoritism to Hilary.

What biased actions did they take?

 

They broke faith with their own members by side stepping their own by-laws.

 

What biased actions did they take that broke their own bylaws??

 

Bernie was never going to win, but He and his representatives should have been shown fair and objective treatment.

 

What actions did they take that were unfair and not objective?

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What biased actions did they take?

 

They broke faith with their own members by side stepping their own by-laws.

 

What biased actions did they take that broke their own bylaws??

 

Bernie was never going to win, but He and his representatives should have been shown fair and objective treatment.

 

What actions did they take that were unfair and not objective.

Heh, You're going to make me work for this, aren't you. Fair enough.

 

http://www.npr.org/2016/05/17/478417091/sanders-doubles-down-on-nevada-convention-controversy

http://wskgnews.org/post/new-york-s-bernie-delegates-say-theyre-treated-unfairly#stream/0

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-democratic-convention-2016-live-sanders-campaign-long-knew-of-dnc-s-1469451797-htmlstory.html

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I would prefer that you actually cite relevant actions yourself, then support it with a cite, rather than simply posting cites for me to go read through.

 

Your first link describes Sanders CLAIMING he was treated unfairly specifically at the NEVADA convention - I'm not stating here that that is FALSE, I am just saying that that isn't proof. It also mentions that any gain would have been minor and irrelevant, which begs the question, what would be their motive.

 

It also mentions how, after the convention, the chairwoman began receiving threats to her family, to her grandchild, and death threats to herself. I wonder if RR is OUTRAGED about that?

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It also mentions how, after the convention, the chairwoman began receiving threats to her family, to her grandchild, and death threats to herself. I wonder if RR is OUTRAGED about that?

Of course I am. Why wouldn't I be? I hope they catch who did it and throw the book at them. There's no excuse for that kind of crap, ever.

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Realize RR that charges that seem unsubstantiated (to us at least) against the DNC for cheating seem like a way of calling into question the legitimacy our candidate—a candidate I am probably as enthusiastic about as you were about Senator Sanders.

 

So to be honest it pisses me off (big time) for people to do that when there is no evidence showing anything happened that would have materially changed the outcome of the election.

 

I'm not thrilled Sanders' staffers stole Clinton data. I'm not happy about what happened in Nevada. I'm not happy about what happen at the Convention. So there are grievances on both sides.

 

The dumb thing IMO is to re-fight the primaries, especially when we've got a bigger fight ahead that needs to be won.

 

Bil

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Realize RR that charges that seem unsubstantiated (to us at least) against the DNC for cheating seem like a way of calling into question the legitimacy our candidate—a candidate I am probably as enthusiastic about as you were about Senator Sanders.

 

So to be honest it pisses me off (big time) for people to do that when there is no evidence showing anything happened that would have materially changed the outcome of the election.

I can see what you're saying, Bill. You're no doubt as excited about Hillary as I was about Bernie. If it makes any difference, I think Hillary would have won the primary either way. I'm just a "by the rules" kind of guy. Integrity and transparency are big with me.

 

Four people have stepped down from their positions at the DNC. Also, I read where there were going to be changes in the primary process for 2020 (including a reduced number of superdelegates). I'll be interested to see what other changes are made to improve things for the next 2020 election.

 

You're correct in that there's much work to do. :)

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I would prefer that you actually cite relevant actions yourself, then support it with a cite, rather than simply posting cites for me to go read through.

 

Your first link describes Sanders CLAIMING he was treated unfairly specifically at the NEVADA convention - I'm not stating here that that is FALSE, I am just saying that that isn't proof. It also mentions that any gain would have been minor and irrelevant, which begs the question, what would be their motive.

 

It also mentions how, after the convention, the chairwoman began receiving threats to her family, to her grandchild, and death threats to herself. I wonder if RR is OUTRAGED about that?

Ok, I concede the point that there are just allegations. Its my opinion that Bernie was not treated fairly by the DNC but I can't offer more than speculative links.

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I can see what you're saying, Bill. You're no doubt as excited about Hillary as I was about Bernie. If it makes any difference, I think Hillary would have won the primary either way. I'm just a "by the rules" kind of guy. Integrity and transparency are big with me.

 

Four people have stepped down from their positions at the DNC. Also, I read where there were going to be changes in the primary process for 2020 (including a reduced number of superdelegates). I'll be interested to see what other changes are made to improve things for the next 2020 election.

 

You're correct in that there's much work to do. :)

 

And—not to put too fine a point on it—I think HRC won the primaries fair and square. That, if anything, Bernie delegates were awarded in numbers beyond his support among voters due to his success in caucuses, and especially those in non-diverse red states. Those were the rules. So that's they way it goes. But we might have different ideas about the reforms the DNC should enact. I'd get rid of caucuses myself, for being undemocratic (other than keeping Iowa for the sake of historicity).

 

Bill

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Of course I am. Why wouldn't I be? I hope they catch who did it and throw the book at them. There's no excuse for that kind of crap, ever.

Stop being objective.

 

You'll throw me off my game.

 

Ok, I concede the point that there are just allegations. Its my opinion that Bernie was not treated fairly by the DNC but I can't offer more than speculative links.

Well, that's quite a reasonable position to take.

 

;)

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Objectivity in politics? OMG, what fantasy is this? :D

 

Unfortunately, though, reason and objectivity and critical thinking and balance have pretty much long since gone the way of the dodo in American politics.

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