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Jah

Neoliberalism is the real enemy

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We need to avoid confusion.

 

Liberal is good.

Neoliberal is bad.

 

Neoliberal is a word that is usuallly used to describe "free-Market" liaise-fare, small government, trickle down economic policy and the advancement of corporate power.

 

It is liberal only in the advancement of corporate power. It is conservative regarding the democratic power of the people and acts to reduce it whenever possible. Those that consider themselves Liberal, typically oppose neoliberal economic policy.

 

Neoliberalism (or sometimes neo-liberalism)[1] refers primarily to the 20th century resurgence of 19th century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism.[2]:7 These include extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to enhance the role of the private sector in the economy.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The implementation of neoliberal policies and the acceptance of neoliberal economic theories in the 1970s are seen by some academics as the root of financialization, with the financial crisis of 2007–08 as one of the ultimate results.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Neoliberalism

 

Both political parties now seem to exclusively advance neoliberal economic policy as the solution to every problem. That's because corporations control the entire electoral and legislative process and all legislation advances corporate power at the expense of the democratic will of the people.

 

Neoliberal economic and neoconservative foreign policy are often used together. American economic influence and military power is combined and used world-wide in the advancement of corporate power and the takeover of public assets. It removes power from democratic governments and hands it to privately held multinational corporations.

 

The TPP is a perfect example of neoliberalism. The World Trade Organization and banking system act exclusively to advance neoliberal corporate capitalism in the world.

 

Neoliberalism is actually Libertarian philosophy and is built upon the fundamental principals advanced by the sociopath Ayn Rand. Her idea that greed and self-service are the greatest virtue and altruism the deepest evil; directly opposes the definition of liberal and the policies that flow from liberal mindedness and liberal philosophy.

 

I hope this helps eliminate some confusion.

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Interesting...especially to a political geek like myself, but I do find these terms ineffective for purposes of labeling different political groups, or philosophies with the US. I do not know many who self - identify as neo-libs. For instance it would seem logical to think that neo-lib would be opposite of neo-con. If this is not the case, how would you describe the opposite philosophy? Anti- neo - liberal?, anti-neo- conservative? seem like a lot of hyphens..

 

I have tried to avoid the generalizing, or grouping of people into these buckets, unless they self-identify themselves as belonging to a particular political philosophy, such as Social Democrat, or libertarian, etc.

 

Everyone is an individual, and it seems to be more effective to discuss specific positions on specific issues for purposes of debate

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Neo-liberalism isn't a very useful term for political discourse IMO, but *if* used correctly it does refer to the Friedrich Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, Austrian School of Economics that inspired what we call Libertarianism and the associated Ayn Randianism.

 

"Libertarian" avoids confusion.

 

I disagree about TPP being a "perfect example of neoliberalism," same with The World Trade Organization. Libertarians (Neo-liberals) see these types of treaties and organizations as impinging on economic "freedom" through governmental regulations. They would kill all such regulations in point of fact.

 

I agree that Ayn Rand was a sociopath.

 

Bill

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Interesting...especially to a political geek like myself, but I do find these terms ineffective for groups, or philopurposes of labeling different political sophies with the US. I do not know many who self - identify as neo-libs. For instance it would seem logical to think that neo-lib would be opposite of neo-con. If this is not the case, how would you describe the opposite philosophy? Anti- neo - liberal?, anti-neo- conservative? seem like a lot of hyphens..

 

I have tried to avoid the generalizing, or grouping of people into these buckets, unless they self-identify themselves as belonging to a particular political philosophy, such as Social Democrat, or libertarian, etc.

 

Everyone is an individual, and it seems to be more effective to discuss specific positions on specific issues for purposes of debate

 

I provided the correct definition of the word in order to clear up the confusion you describe.

 

This is not about the lying, deceiving and manipulating of words for the sake of labeling people as a means to some twisted end. Liberals are supposed to be more honest than that, not defend it. It is about eliminating confusion, manipulation and false labeling. It is about taxonomy.

 

 

If communication is to take place and people are to avoid confusion, deception and manipulation, words need to mean something.

 

You can't even begin discussing anything without appropriate taxonomy.

 

If you know anyone that calls themselves neoliberal, you should suggest they research the meaning of the word so they don't communicate to others the opposite of which they intend.

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Speaking of word meanings: Choosing the screen name "Jah" (God) strike me an an awfully strange choice.

 

Bill

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Interesting...especially to a political geek like myself, but I do find these terms ineffective for purposes of labeling different political groups, or philosophies with the US. I do not know many who self - identify as neo-libs. For instance it would seem logical to think that neo-lib would be opposite of neo-con. If this is not the case, how would you describe the opposite philosophy? Anti- neo - liberal?, anti-neo- conservative? seem like a lot of hyphens..

 

I have tried to avoid the generalizing, or grouping of people into these buckets, unless they self-identify themselves as belonging to a particular political philosophy, such as Social Democrat, or libertarian, etc.

 

Everyone is an individual, and it seems to be more effective to discuss specific positions on specific issues for purposes of debate

 

While each individual has a unique point of view, differing to some degree with all others, it is essential to be able to identify different advocacy movements, for different groups of beneficiaries.

 

The Democratic Party has split into two important groups: Liberals (Progressives) and Neo-Liberals (Corporatists). Each group's economic policy is radically different. But both groups are united in their support of social legislation in the areas of LGBT, racial, religious and ethnic equality.

 

Broadly speaking, Liberals or Progressives are in favor of legislation promoting a generous social safety net and the prevention of the concentration of wealth at the top. Neo-Liberals favor legislation in favor of corporations and plutocrats.

 

Money in politics has spurred the growth of Neo-Liberalism in government by legalized bribery of candidates, offered by the rich and powerful in return for favorable legislation. Once in office, lobbyists offer similar bribes to achieve the ends of their powerful clients. Since money wins elections over 90% of the time, the system perpetuates itself.

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While each individual has a unique point of view, differing to some degree with all others, it is essential to be able to identify different advocacy movements, for different groups of beneficiaries.

 

The Democratic Party has split into two important groups: Liberals (Progressives) and Neo-Liberals (Corporatists). Each group's economic policy is radically different. But both groups are united in their support of social legislation in the areas of LGBT, racial, religious and ethnic equality.

 

Broadly speaking, Liberals or Progressives are in favor of legislation promoting a generous social safety net and the prevention of the concentration of wealth at the top. Neo-Liberals favor legislation in favor of corporations and plutocrats.

 

Money in politics has spurred the growth of Neo-Liberalism in government by legalized bribery of candidates, by the rich and powerful in return for favorable legislation. Once in office, lobbyists offer similar bribes to achieve the ends of their powerful clients. Since money wins elections over 90% of the time, the system perpetuates itself.

I'd reject the proposition in any case, but yours is the classic misuse of the term "neoliberalism." Neoliberalism is libertarianism.

 

Bill

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I'd reject the proposition in any case, but yours is the classic misuse of the term "neoliberalism." Neoliberalism is libertarianism.

 

Bill

 

It's useful to settle on standard meanings of terms. What I was referring to is pro-corporatism, pro-Plutocracy.

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I and all those that currently consider themselves Liberal or Progressive in American politics, oppose neoliberal capitalism in practice regardless of what you want to call the policies to which I am referring.

 

If you consider yourself a liberal, but support Neoliberalism in the practice of financialization, austerity, privitization, deregulation and "free trade" you have either an identity disorder or profound ignorance of the American language and the meaning of words. In which case communication is no longer possible.

 

If you simply don't like the word, too bad. It is what it is.

 

Go ahead self described neoliberals, forward your rationale for supporting fictionalization, austerity, privatization, deregulation and "free trade".

 

I'm not sure who determines the meanings of words or where we can look to solve conflicts in what people believe they mean. It used to be called the dictionary, but now even that is too often manipulated to control ideas and discussion via conflating of ideas and words.

 

When we are so confused that we don't know what is what anymore and we can't communicate, we are powerless as democratic citizens. Some actually pursue that powerlessness as a goal. It certainly is not a goal of any self-described liberal.

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It's useful to settle on standard meanings of terms. What I was referring to is pro-corporatism, pro-Plutocracy.

I'm aware what you meant (although I disagree), but neoliberalism has an established meaning that is very different than the one you're intending.

 

Bill

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I'm aware what you meant (although I disagree), but neoliberalism has an established meaning that is very different than the one you're intending.

 

Bill

 

ne·o·lib·er·al
ˌnēōˈlibərəl/
adjective: neo-liberal; adjective: neoliberal
1. relating to a modified form of liberalism tending to favor free-market capitalism.
noun
noun: neo-liberal; plural noun: neo-liberals; noun: neoliberal; plural noun: neoliberals

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I'm aware what you meant (although I disagree), but neoliberalism has an established meaning that is very different than the one you're intending.

 

 

 

Put up or shut up Bill.

Reference your contention.

I did.

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Neoliberalism is the real enemy

 

For the next 100 days, Mein Trumpf and the specter of Fascism eclipses Neoliberalism as the real enemy.

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Now define "free market" capitalism.

 

Bill.

 

Do you support privatization?

Do you support financialization?

Do you support America's so called "free trade agreements"?

Do you support deregulation?

 

That is modern neoloberal (also known as) "Free Market" economics.

 

Those that typically refer to themselves as Liberal or Progressive typically oppose such things.

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Put up or shut up Bill.

Reference your contention.

I did.

You seem to be a little a little unstable, as I concurred with the meaning of "neoliberalism" as referring to Austrian School style libertarianism.

 

Railing at people isn't a great form of discourse. Cool out.

 

Bill

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Here is some discussion from others regarding neoliberal "free market" economics. In other words, the modern Libertarian lie that greed and privatization are good and governments and altruism are bad.

 

“Liberalism” can refer to political, economic, or even religious ideas. In the U.S. political liberalism has been a strategy to prevent social conflict. It is presented to poor and working people as progressive compared to conservative or Right wing. Economic liberalism is different. Conservative politicians who say they hate “liberals” — meaning the political type — have no real problem with economic liberalism, including neoliberalism. http://www.globalissues.org/article/39/a-primer-on-neoliberalism

 

By the 1970s, however, economic stagnation and increasing public debt prompted some economists to advocate a return to classical liberalism, which in its revived form came to be known as neoliberalism. The intellectual foundations of that revival were primarily the work of the Austrian-born British economist Friedrich von Hayek, who argued that interventionist measures aimed at the redistribution of wealth lead inevitably to totalitarianism, and of the American economist Milton Friedman, who rejected government fiscal policy as a means of influencing the business cycle (see also monetarism). Their views were enthusiastically embraced by the major conservative political parties in Britain and the United States, which achieved power with the lengthy administrations of British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher (1979–90) and U.S. Pres. Ronald Reagan (1981–89). https://www.britannica.com/topic/neoliberalism

 

"Neo-liberalism" is a set of economic policies that have become widespread during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is rarely heard in the United States, you can clearly see the effects of neo-liberalism here as the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer.

"Liberalism" can refer to political, economic, or even religious ideas. In the U.S. political liberalism has been a strategy to prevent social conflict. It is presented to poor and working people as progressive compared to conservative or Rightwing. Economic liberalism is different. Conservative politicians who say they hate "liberals" -- meaning the political type -- have no real problem with economic liberalism, including neoliberalism. http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376

 

What is 'Neoliberalism'

Neoliberalism is a policy model of social studies and economics that transfers control of economic factors to the private sector from the public sector. It takes from the basic principles of neoclassical economics, suggesting that governments must limit subsidies, make reforms to tax law in order to expand the tax base, reduce deficit spending, limit protectionism, and open markets up to trade. It also seeks to abolish fixed exchange rates, back deregulation, permit private property, and privatize businesses run by the state.

Liberalism, in economics, refers to a freeing of the economy by eliminating regulations and barriers that restrict what actors can do. Neoliberal policies aim for a laissez-faire approach to economic development. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp

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https://www.google.com/search?q=neo-liberal+def&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

ne·o·lib·er·al

 

ˌnēōˈlibərəl/

 

adjective: neo-liberal; adjective: neoliberal

 

 

 

1. relating to a modified form of liberalism tending to favor free-market capitalism.

 

 

 

 

noun

 

noun: neo-liberal; plural noun: neo-liberals; noun: neoliberal; plural noun: neoliberals

These days dictionaries (especially online ones) are "descriptive" (meaning they describe current usage, even when it is incorrect usage) as opposed to being "prescriptive" (showing correct usage).

 

The term "neoliberalism" is often misused despite having an established meaning in political science.

 

Bill

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contemporary-leaders.png


These days dictionaries (especially online ones) are "descriptive" (meaning they describe current usage, even when it is incorrect usage) as opposed to being "prescriptive" (showing correct usage).

The term "neoliberalism" is often misused despite having an established meaning in political science.

Bill

 

Yes Bill that is why I wrote this post. To clear the air of misCONception, misuse and manipulation.

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contemporary-leaders.png

 

 

Yes Bill that is why I wrote this post. To clear the air of misCONception, misuse and manipulation.

And I agreed with your definition, and you went ballistic. So cool out.

 

Bill

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So Bill, do you support neoliberal "modified free market" capitalism?

 

Yes, no, dodge?

 

Most liberals and progressives do not.

 

We wouldn't want true liberals to support the economic policies ushered in by Ronald Reagan now would we?

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Help! I'm having a self identity crisis. I must be a liberal cause I'm posting on the LO forum, but ran across this definition:

 

a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard.

 

but I'll stick with this definition for purposes of self description:

 

In the United States, modern liberalism traces its history to the popular presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who initiated the New Deal in response to the Great Depression and won an unprecedented four elections. John F. Kennedy, a self-described liberal defined a liberal as "someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions ... someone who cares about the welfare of the people"

 

I think that liberalism in the FDR tradition, is very applicable to today's situation.

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These days dictionaries (especially online ones) are "descriptive" (meaning they describe current usage, even when it is incorrect usage) as opposed to being "prescriptive" (showing correct usage).

 

The term "neoliberalism" is often misused despite having an established meaning in political science.

 

Bill

 

The fact that dictionaries, and "especially online ones" are beginning to reflect current usage means that the term neo-liberalism, referring to free-market capitalism, is beginning to stick. I see the term used that way, in numerous articles both informal and scholarly. Definitions change with changing times. Language evolves.

 

Of course one almost never hears the term on MSM, since any discussion of such has been all but banned. There was a brief period, while Bernie still had his hat in the ring, that economic inequality was touched-on by the pundits. But since Bernie terminated his candidacy, censorship again, rears its ugly head.

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So Bill, do you support neoliberal "modified free market" capitalism?

 

Yes, no, dodge?

 

Most liberals and progressives do not.

 

We wouldn't want true liberals to support the economic policies ushered in by Ronald Reagan now would we?

What's with your aggressive and obnoxious tone? God complex?

 

Bill

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Help! I'm having a self identity crisis. I must be a liberal cause I'm posting on the LO forum, but ran across this definition:

 

a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard.

 

but I'll stick with this definition for purposes of self description:

 

In the United States, modern liberalism traces its history to the popular presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who initiated the New Deal in response to the Great Depression and won an unprecedented four elections. John F. Kennedy, a self-described liberal defined a liberal as "someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions ... someone who cares about the welfare of the people"

 

I think that liberalism in the FDR tradition, is very applicable to today's situation.

 

FDR Liberalism is still the example to be followed. FDR's policies resulted in fifty years of prosperity for ordinary Americans and made us the envy of the world. That time is past with the rapid accelaration of the income gap and control of government by the ultra rich and corporations.

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The fact that dictionaries, and "especially online ones" are beginning to reflect current usage means that the term neo-liberalism, referring to free-market capitalism, is beginning to stick. I see the term used that way, in numerous articles both informal and scholarly. Definitions change with changing times. Language evolves.

 

Of course one almost never hears the term on MSM, since any discussion of such has been all but banned. There was a brief period, while Bernie still had his hat in the ring, that economic inequality was touched-on by the pundits. But since Bernie terminated his candidacy, censorship again, rears its ugly head.

It is used (misused), but that reflects poorly on the political education of those who don't know what "neoliberalism" means. It is a sign of political ignorance.

 

Bill

FDR Liberalism is still the example to be followed. FDR's policies resulted in fifty years of prosperity for ordinary Americans and made us the envy of the world. That time is past with the rapid accelaration of the income gap and control of government by the ultra rich and corporations.

And FDR at the time was attacked as a plutocrat by the left, and as someone more interested in saving Capitalism by making incremental reforms to save the system from collapse, as opposed to embracing scientific-Socialism.

 

Bill

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