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SpyCar

Bernie Should be a Mensch and Get Out

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With Trump secured as the presumptive Republican nominee, and the driving narrative of the moment being Republicans who won't endorse him (Bushes, Romney, Ryan) Senator Sanders could convincingly exit saying, defeating Trump was now goal one, and urging his supporter to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

If he did, it would help, rather than hurt, his long term interests. Rather than doing down in history as a "spoiler" (or near spoiler) he looks like a mensch.

 

He can't win the nomination, but he can do a lot of good, or much harm.

 

It is time.

 

Bill

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Bernie may not win, but I keep hoping Hillary will move to the left. So far she is still far way too right wing for my vote. Perhaps Hillary should drop out so Bernie will easily defeat Trump.

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Bernie may not win, but I keep hoping Hillary will move to the left. So far she is still far way too right wing for my vote. Perhaps Hillary should drop out so Bernie will easily defeat Trump.

 

The time for this talking point is past. HRC is our presumptive nominee. Bernie can not win. The mathematics are impossible.

 

It is time to clear the field.

 

Bill

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If the people cannot win, and no candidate is possible, I suggest not cooperating. Why obey the government when they will not allow the will of the people. Non-violent non-cooperation. When we have no representation we have no legitimate government.

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With Trump secured as the presumptive Republican nominee, and the driving narrative of the moment being Republicans who won't endorse him (Bushes, Romney, Ryan) Senator Sanders could convincingly exit saying, defeating Trump was now goal one, and urging his supporter to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

If he did, it would help, rather than hurt, his long term interests. Rather than doing down in history as a "spoiler" (or near spoiler) he looks like a mensch.

 

He can't win the nomination, but he can do a lot of good, or much harm.

 

It is time.

 

Bill

 

Whether Bernie looks like a "mensch" or not depends entirely on the viewer.

 

In the short run, Bernie's withdrawal from the race to support Clinton and help ensure Trumps defeat makes sense. In the long run, with Clinton as president, the status quo will continue. Clinton as president would simply serve as a stopgap measure until leaders can be found who will effect a real rebound of the middle class in the United States.

 

Bernie's Democratic Socialist movement is the only realistic hope of saving the country from Plutocracy. To maximize chances that his supporters become the wave of the future, Bernie has to stick around to build the movement. So it is Bernie's patriotic duty to help his supporters launch a politically viable force for the future.

 

Neither Hillary nor Trump will help the middle class much. Considering all the factors in play and judging the most important thing at stake, which is the future of the middle class, Bernie has to take a gamble that Hillary will beat Trump without Bernie's help up until at least, the last of the primaries.

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Whether Bernie looks like a "mensch" or not depends entirely on the viewer.

 

In the short run, Bernie's withdrawal from the race to support Clinton and help ensure Trumps defeat makes sense. In the long run, with Clinton as president, the status quo will continue. Clinton as president would simply serve as a stopgap measure until leaders can be found who will effect a real rebound of the middle class in the United States.

 

Bernie's Democratic Socialist movement is the only realistic hope of saving the country from Plutocracy. To maximize chances that his supporters become the wave of the future, Bernie has to stick around to build the movement. So it is Bernie's patriotic duty to help his supporters launch a politically viable force for the future.

 

Neither Hillary nor Trump will help the middle class much. Considering all the factors in play and judging the most important thing at stake, which is the future of the middle class, Bernie has to take a gamble that Hillary will beat Trump without Bernie's help up until at least, the last of the primaries.

His actions will destroy his "movement" and earn the enmity of Democrats forever if his actions lead to a defeat. Continuing is an ego-trip we can not afford.

 

Bill

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His actions will destroy his "movement" and earn the enmity of Democrats forever if his actions lead to a defeat. Continuing is an ego-trip we can not afford.

 

Bill

 

If the Democratic party fails to represent this movement, I'm sorry, but I don't care if it earns the enmity of the Democratic party. If the Democratic party continues to be a party of the center-right with occasional nods to the center and center-left, why should I care what they feel about me? About this movement? Maybe this movement will lead to a real change in politics. Maybe it will lead to an end of this ridiculous two-party system we have now. Continuing is NOT an ego-trip. Continuing is understanding that even though short-term goals might not be reached, long-term goals might still be achieved.

 

And if Hillary loses in the fall, why blame Bernie? She's the one who needs to win us over. If she fails, that's on her.

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The time for this talking point is past. HRC is our presumptive nominee. Bernie can not win. The mathematics are impossible.

 

It is time to clear the field.

 

Bill

Sorry, but the math isn't impossible. Bernie isn't mathematically eliminated yet. The superdelegates do not count until the convention. Neither Clinton nor Sanders will have the 2,383 pledged delegates needed to secure the nomination prior to the convention. Superdelegates can (and have in the past) switched allegiances. I think we should let the process play out; it's good for democracy.

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Ego-trip, just like Ralph Nader [insert spitting sound here].

 

Bernie lost. Even a slime-ball like Cruz pulled out when he had no pathway to victory. Bernie has no pathway. Is he not better than Cruz?

 

Bill

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Ego-trip, just like Ralph Nader [insert spitting sound here].

 

Bernie lost. Even a slime-ball like Cruz pulled out when he had no pathway to victory. Bernie has no pathway. Is he not better than Cruz?

 

Bill

 

Mathematically unlikely =/= mathematically impossible =/= no pathway =/= lost.

 

If Hillary can't handle winning over Bernie Sanders' supporters should she win the nomination, how does she ever think she can handle the general election?

 

I voted for Sanders and I gave money to Sanders and I want him to stay in until the end. A good portion of his supporters do. And he, unlike so many politicians, actually *listens* to us.

 

So no, he shouldn't pull out.

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Ego-trip, just like Ralph Nader [insert spitting sound here].

 

Bernie lost. Even a slime-ball like Cruz pulled out when he had no pathway to victory. Bernie has no pathway. Is he not better than Cruz?

 

Bill

Bernie's not there for his ego. If you believe that, you haven't done much research on the man. He wants to help fix the real things that are wrong with this country.

 

Cruz dropped out because he was mathematically eliminated. Bernie is not....not yet. Granted, the margin for victory is narrow, but there is still a chance. People in all states have a right to cast their vote. They don't stop sporting events in the middle of the fourth quarter, even if one team is winning by a large margin. Why should we stop a primary process when the stakes are infinitely more important?

 

Bernie's in this until the convention.

Mathematically unlikely =/= mathematically impossible =/= no pathway =/= lost.

 

If Hillary can't handle winning over Bernie Sanders' supporters should she win the nomination, how does she ever think she can handle the general election?

 

I voted for Sanders and I gave money to Sanders and I want him to stay in until the end. A good portion of his supporters do. And he, unlike so many politicians, actually *listens* to us.

 

So no, he shouldn't pull out.

I donate monthly to his campaign and will until the convention.

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Bernie's not there for his ego. If you believe that, you haven't done much research on the man. He wants to help fix the real things that are wrong with this country.

 

Cruz dropped out because he was mathematically eliminated. Bernie is not....not yet. Granted, the margin for victory is narrow, but there is still a chance. People in all states have a right to cast their vote. They don't stop sporting events in the middle of the fourth quarter, even if one team is winning by a large margin. Why should we stop a primary process when the stakes are infinitely more important?

 

Bernie's in this until the convention.

I donate monthly to his campaign and will until the convention.

 

You are not actually serious with this "the margin for victory is narrow, but there is still a chance" line of argument, are you?

 

There is no way in hell that Bernie Sanders can win the nomination. He should yield. He lost. It is over. Time to face reality.

 

Bill

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You are not actually serious with this "the margin for victory is narrow, but there is still a chance" line of argument, are you?

 

There is no way in hell that Bernie Sanders can win the nomination. He should yield. He lost. It is over. Time to face reality.

 

Bill

There is still a chance. Superdelegates can switch. Hell, Hillary could be indicted. She is being investigated by the FBI after all.

 

Bernie's in this until the convention. Nothing's changed.

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It's ON!! This isn't over 'till it's over. All the way to the convention!

 

Following his victory in Indiana Tuesday night, Bernie Sanders called on Hillary Clinton to agree to a debate in California before the state's June 7 primary.

 

"The Clinton campaign thinks this campaign is over. They're wrong. Maybe it's over for the insiders and the party establishment, but the voters in Indiana had a different idea. The campaign wasn't over for them," Sanders said in a statement Tuesday night.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/after-indiana-win-sanders-calls-for-california-debate/article/2590316#.Vyyu85sv8tA.facebook

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There's nothing like arithmetic to inject reality into a discussion. As of May 6th, 2016:

Pledged delegates Super delegates

Hillary Clinton 1683 522

Bernie Sanders 1362 39

 

Number of remaining delegates: 933.

If the remaining number are divided:

Clinton's pledged Sanders pledged

Current ratio (55%,45%) 1683+513= 2196 1362+420= 1782

Split 50%,50% 1683+467= 2150 1362+466= 1828

65%,35% for Sanders 1683+327= 2010 1362+606= 1968

 

Given how things have worked out the likelihood of Sanders winning 65% of the remaining delegates is about zero... and even then he doesn't catch her.

 

Even in the incredibly unlikely case of Sanders winning 65% of the remaining pledged delegates, he would then need to sway to his side many of Clinton's super delegates. I think you can see that his chances of swaying enough super delegates to catch her is effectively zero. So two incredibly unlikely things would have to happen: a huge electoral win and a massive change of heart of the super delegates.

 

The Republicans are the party of anti-science magical thinking. The Democrats are supposed to be more realistic. I think the above numbers speak for themselves. In reality, not in a theoretical dream world, Sanders has no chance of winning the nomination.

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I concede that the odds are not in Bernie's favor. Establishment politics is winning (which means America is losing). Still, though, Bernie has said that ALL voters have the right to cast their vote. For that reason, he's taking this all the way to the convention.

 

He has my vote (as well as millions of others). Let's allow democracy to run it's course.

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LOL. The "odds are not in Bernie's favor" is quite a concession.

 

The reality is: Sander's has no change of winning the nomination.

 

That Sanders' supporters (and the candidate himself) want to fight on in an already lost cause, when Trump has cleared a path on the Republican side, is not a position that's well though through. It is time to pivot to the General election. Bernie could win more support by supporting Hillary Clinton and candidates for the House and Senate and Statewide races, than by playing Jeremiah.

 

Bill

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His actions will destroy his "movement" and earn the enmity of Democrats forever if his actions lead to a defeat. Continuing is an ego-trip we can not afford.

 

Bill

 

It should be obvious Bernie is not an egotistical person. His concern is for the future of an egalitarian America. And he is taking steps now, to maximize the odds that there will be future Democratic Socialist leaders to run for office, with a chance of being elected.

 

His actions now are building a movement for the future of our Country and he will be admired for it, in history.

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It should be obvious Bernie is not an egotistical person. His is concern for the future of an egalitarian America. And he is taking steps now, to maximize the odds that there will be future leaders to fun for office, with a chance of being elected.

 

His actions now are building a movement for the future of our Country and he will be admired for it, in history.

 

It is sincerely unclear to me than Bernie isn't an egoist who's fallen in love with the adulation. He may be rumpled, but I don't believe he isn't vain.

 

If he was driven by what was in the best interest of the country, I believe he'd recognize that he has no path to victory (which is the plain truth) and spend his energies maximizing Democratic victories across the board, and being a unifier. He will not be admired if he pulls the party apart and Trump wins. He'd go down in history as a bigger villain than Ralph Nader.

 

Bill

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LOL. The "odds are not in Bernie's favor" is quite a concession.

 

The reality is: Sander's has no change of winning the nomination.

Incorrect. He does have a chance. Hillary won't get to 2383 with pledged delegates alone - do you concede that much? Hillary is under investigation by the FBI - do you admit that? Superdelegates have switched allegiances in the past - that's a fact. It's not over, despite how much you want it to be.

 

Bernie just called on Hillary to debate again prior to the California primary. Hopefully that will happen.

 

It is time to pivot to the General election. Bernie could win more support by supporting Hillary Clinton and candidates for the House and Senate and Statewide races, than by playing Jeremiah.

 

Bill

Hillary can pivot wherever she chooses. Bernie's still fighting for every vote. He's also supporting candidates for the Congress and state offices. He's just running his own donations, instead of trusting Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and the establishment contingent to dole out the money. What's the big issue with allowing a process to take it's course? Seems pretty UN-democratic to me.

 

It is sincerely unclear to me than Bernie isn't an egoist who's fallen in love with the adulation. He may be rumpled, but I don't believe he isn't vain.

No, he's doing it to help the country. He knows that once Hillary get into office, it's back to Washington politics as usual (i.e. nothing gets done). So he's doing what he can in the time that he has. I commend him for this. Others should, too. I'm dismayed that you find that to be such a terrible thing.

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Nader and Sanders are completely different cases. Nader was a spoiler and Bernie is a builder.

 

Nader was a perennial candidate having run for president five times. In 2000 Nader ran as an independent, receiving nearly 100,000 votes, some of which might have gone to Al Gore. Bernie will not be running against Hillary in the general election. There is no comparison.

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Nader and Sanders are completely different cases. Nader was a spoiler and Bernie is a builder.

 

Nader was a perennial candidate having run for president five times. In 2000 Nader ran as an independent, receiving nearly 100,000 votes, some of which might have gone to Al Gore. Bernie will not be running against Hillary in the general election. There is no comparison.

 

I hope, at the end of the day, that you are correct and that Sander's proves to be a builder and not a spoiler. I'm not completely sanguine this will be the case, as the evidence to date points to division and sanctimoniousness as the hallmarks of the "feel the bern" movement.

 

There will be a moment of truth. I pray that I'm wrong about Bernie Sanders, and that he whole-heartedly supports the Democratic nominee.

 

Bill

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I hope, at the end of the day, that you are correct and that Sander's proves to be a builder and not a spoiler. I'm not completely sanguine this will be the case, as the evidence to date points to division and sanctimoniousness as the hallmarks of the "feel the bern" movement.

Most of that is coming from the Sanders supporters, not the candidate himself. Many of us do not like Hillary and will not vote for her.

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We might wish East LA College was an aberration, but that's not the case.

 

If you're honest about it, you know the attitude flows from the top.

 

Bill

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We might wish East LA College was an aberration, but that's not the case.

 

If you're honest about it, you know the attitude flows from the top.

 

Bill

I totally disagree. People are responsible for their own behavior.

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