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What if Bernie Wins in New York?

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What I am about to say will probably sound alien to many members who currently frequent the LO Rm. Politics has been pulled so far to the right that it has invaded this sanctuary for Liberals on this site. Sometimes I think I'm conversing with moderate Republicans.

 

If I try to put myself in their shoes, I come to the conclusion that because Bernie no longer has any chance at the nomination, the best thing he could do is quit the race, give his considerable war chest to Hillary, and assist her in gaining a head start over a weak and disorganized Republican field.

 

But Bernie's is building a movement. His brand of Liberalism is the wave of the future and Hillary's ideology of social Liberalism combined with economic conservancy is fading even as she becomes the Democratic candidate. Bernie recently said he will soldier on all the way to the Democratic convention, thereby using this opportunity to educate millions of people about Democratic Socialism ... Especially young people who have been the most eager to embrace his ideas.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/18/bernie-sanders-movement-larger-than-election

Why Bernie Sanders movement is much larger than this election

 

The movement combining social Liberalism and economic justice started, in earnest, with the Occupy Movement in 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement

It is now finding establishment political expression in Bernie Sanders candidacy. It is important to expand the movement and Bernie is doing just that by extending his campaign all the way to the convention.

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It doesn't look like Bernie has much of a chance to win the democratic nomination for president. I am disappointed. Even worse, it doesn't look like he moved Hillary to the left at all. She still refuses to say the things I want to hear. I don't hear her voicing support for the middle class.

 

I am not a democrat either. I vote for democrats occasionally. When they represent my views on the issues, I will vote for them. Bernie mostly presented my opinions on the issues so I would vote for him. Hillary does not so I won't vote for her. Just because she won't do as much damage as a Trump is not reason to vote against my own best interest. I am not in favor of zero investment in the future of the United States and its people. I am not in favor of trickle down economics where the rich get all the profit of the labor of the many; and the many don't even get enough to live and have to have government subsidies just to eat after working 12 hours a day. That is not a sustainable. It is a plan to rob the people and it is being successfully implemented since Reagan installed this plan. I want Hillary to come out against this and she refuses. How can I even consider voting for someone who openly promises to rob most of the people of the fruit of their labor?

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It is the on-going (and rather galling) tactic of the Sanders' campaign to attempt to suggest the Democratic party has drifted to the right. People who are not Democrats, but Socialists (and not Liberals, but Leftists) think they get to define our party and our ideals. Tosh!

 

The premise is absurd. The party candidate has drifted right compared to whom? John F. Kennedy? Lyndon Johnson? Bobby Kennedy? Hubert Humphrey? Jimmy Carter? Bill Clinton? Barack Obama? Even FDR, who did take some bold moves, did so as a means of preserving democracy and capitalism by making "reforms," and not to join the Third International.

 

So stuff your "moderate Republican" comments.

 

For a movement to means something, a leader must inspire people to act, to sacrifice, and to work hard. This is not happening with Sanders' message. He answer to every problem is "let somebody else bear the price."

 

On trade he'd make workers in the developing world pay with human misery when we block trade with countries that don't have pay parity with the US (which will also kill the US and world economics). Everything else, free health care, free college, etc) gets paid for by soaking the rich. What does Sanders' ask of "his follower?" Nothing. He encourages the worst sort of selfish instincts, and no sense of honor, duty, or hard work, in sanctimonious youths. It is an immature political philosophy, which is exactly why he has next-to-no support among mature-minded people.

 

The way Sanders' exploits anger and rage puts him among the lowest order of politicians. Yes, he can get people stirred up. The list of "revolutionaries" with that ability is not one I'd use to draw upon to chose a US president. We've seen where politics of angry populism lead. Not good.

 

Sanders' has no plan, and no real vision. His campaign is built on platitudes. He has no way forward to lead a movement anywhere, except to petulant and destructive rage that the immature will convince themselves is righteous anger (when they are blind to their sanctimoniousness ).

 

What to make a difference? Put in the spade-work. Win school-boards. Win water boards. Win community councils. Win city councils. Mayoral races. Build a record in legislatures of real success. Build a party. Then run for higher office with pragmatic results and a network of national office holders behind you. But I expect that would be too much work for the Bernie followers who seem to want everything to come easily.

 

Bill

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It is incorrect to say that the country has moved to the right. Just the fact that a candidate can go that far while espousing the term "socialist" shows we haven't moved to the right.

 

What is correct is this: corporations have much more power than they used to. The reason is the expansion and rise of technology.

 

To tame that power, government will need to use technology and they will need to get as good and as flexible at it as corporations have gotten.

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What's often forgotten is that you can't just start a political party of your own. Especially since Republicans and Democrats control the rules to getting to the debates. You have to have 15% in the polls 2 weeks before the first debate in order to get to the debates in the first place. This is a ridiculous requirement. Even Ross Perrot would not have enough to have gotten to the debates under this system. So long as they control the system--and rest assured they do--there's nothing anyone who wants to do something about it CAN do about it.

If it weren't for the ages of the SCOTUS Justices, Hillary would NOT have my vote. I do not trust her. She's not nearly progressive enough, and is way too war-hawkish. When she echoed Trump's sentiments to 'close' the internet, it terrified me. And it should terrify others. She's far too cozy with wall street too. She will be incredibly unlikely to get my vote in 2020 if she wins in 2016.

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What's often forgotten is that you can't just start a political party of your own. Especially since Republicans and Democrats control the rules to getting to the debates. You have to have 15% in the polls 2 weeks before the first debate in order to get to the debates in the first place. This is a ridiculous requirement. Even Ross Perrot would not have enough to have gotten to the debates under this system. So long as they control the system--and rest assured they do--there's nothing anyone who wants to do something about it CAN do about it.

 

If it weren't for the ages of the SCOTUS Justices, Hillary would NOT have my vote. I do not trust her. She's not nearly progressive enough, and is way too war-hawkish. When she echoed Trump's sentiments to 'close' the internet, it terrified me. And it should terrify others. She's far too cozy with wall street too. She will be incredibly unlikely to get my vote in 2020 if she wins in 2016.

 

Yes, building a party is hard work. That's true of starting one's own party, or building and shaping an established party from inside. Tearing a party down is a lot easier than building one up.

 

Bernie supporters could work with-in the party. It would help if Senator Sanders' projected that message (and joined the party himself), rather than feeding the "Bernie or the highway" spirt that's typified the campaign to date. His experience, running for local office and building from there is a great example, other than the fact that he didn't work inside a party, but outside one.

 

One can't be a moment as a party of one. Especially when the one is 78.

 

His followers should hear him say, "go out and work hard." But I wonder how it would resonate.

 

Bill

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It would help if Senator Sanders' projected that message (and joined the party himself), rather than feeding the "Bernie or the highway" spirt that's typified the campaign to date. His experience, running for local office and building from there is a great example, other than the fact that he didn't work inside a party, but outside one.

 

Bernie's joining the Democrats.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/04/30/bernie_sanders_joins_2016_field_--_as_a_democrat_126448.html

Bernie Sanders Joins 2016 Field -- as a Democrat

 

And for what it's worth, he said he will remain a Democrat for life.

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Politics in the US is rapidly moving far to the right. Conservative dominate at the local level.

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2014/11/06/wave-gop-will-control-more-state-legislative-chambers-than-ever-before-n1915164

B1ugr7PCEAAas8S.jpg

 

 

At the Federal level, we now have ALEC and the FED pulling politics to the right. The Senate and House of Representatives are controlled by Republicans. President Obama has been a Conservative Democratic president and now he supports the TPP. The Supreme Court is split but Republicans are seizing control in the choosing of a new Justice.

 

Bernie Sanders political movement failed against a the Hillary Campaign. Hillary is a right wing Democrat.

 

The only hope for ordinary people and the middle class is the growth of the political movement that Bernie has started. Most are young people and they will, hopefully, prevail in the future.

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Yes, building a party is hard work. That's true of starting one's own party, or building and shaping an established party from inside. Tearing a party down is a lot easier than building one up.

 

Bernie supporters could work with-in the party. It would help if Senator Sanders' projected that message (and joined the party himself), rather than feeding the "Bernie or the highway" spirt that's typified the campaign to date. His experience, running for local office and building from there is a great example, other than the fact that he didn't work inside a party, but outside one.

 

One can't be a moment as a party of one. Especially when the one is 78.

 

His followers should hear him say, "go out and work hard." But I wonder how it would resonate.

 

Bill

It is going to take more than go out and work hard, which is NOT the antecedent here. Factories and then jobs is. I will share this lil pic as a reminder of where we are. The later part for the fellow retards.

 

Jobs%20available_zps9zulmatq.jpg

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Hey there Bludog,

 

I completely agree that Bernie needs to stay in this and that he is definitely building a movement that we hope will one day help to take the money out of politics. The money, and there is a lot, is focused on both State and Federal congressional races, as well as on State initiatives / the places where it hurts the most.

 

And yes, there is absolutely too much distortion of the truth regarding federal and state policy. All this at such a critical time when we need to be attacking poverty, rebuilding infrastructure, and creating a more sustainable economy that no longer relies on fossil fuels. The cost of going to a college university is absolutely absurd - the best state universities compete for out of state students whom they can over-charge. There has to be a better way!!!

 

The trade deals like the TPPA are really about strengthening Corporate entitlements like patent laws and as such they do nothing good for workers in the US or abroad. We need the world to come together to stop tyrants and terrorism, something like the Paris Climate talks - it is critical that we do this.

 

I was just thinking about my own youth, growing up very lower middle class, at least I lived in a safe neighborhood and had a decent public school to attend. Economically in the U.S. today we have secular stagnation or a demand that does not create the job climate we all need and at the very same time a crumbling infrastructure that creates far too much waste in peoples time, over use of fossil fuel energy, and a myriad of inefficiencies that lead to an abundance of wasted finite resource.

 

All over the globe poverty is destroying human potential and creating chaos.

 

Bernie needs to keep running and bringing in the huge crowds for sure, and as he does, these young people who support him will take a look around, and begin to find more truth on their own. That is what I believe!

 

Peace!

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